Forget the Cap & Tax bill--Obama & EPA going to enforce it anyway!

[oreo]

President Obama, White House Climate Czar Carol Browner, and their Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are not waiting for Congress to pass cap-and-trade. Shrugging off the Climate-gate scandal, today EPA administration Lisa Jackson issues a so-called "endangerment finding," paving the way for onerous greenhouse gas regulations to be shoehorned into the 1970 Clean Air Act.

Based on a legal theory originally conceived by Climate Czar Carol Browner in the late 1990s, Obama’s EPA is moving ahead with greenhouse gases regulations under the 1970 Clean Air Act even though in 1970 global warming hadn’t even been invented yet, and the doom-saying scientists were instead warning of an impending ice age!

The enormous grassroots reaction to the outrageous Waxman-Markey energy tax bill passing the U.S. House has slowed Senate progress to a crawl. While cap-and-trade remains a major threat (especially with new “tri-partisan” negotiations betweens Senators Graham, Kerry, and Lieberman), the biggest threat of huge new energy taxes and government controls right now comes not from legislation, but regulation.

Next week President Obama will go to Copenhagen to make what he has termed a “politically binding” commitment to reduce greenhouse gases 17 percent by 2020 and 83 percent by 2050, the same levels in the now-stalled cap-and-trade bill. He is able to make this commitment, we can tell from today’s EPA announcement, because he intends to use EPA regulation to short-circuit the democratic process, boycott the Congress, and put us all under a sweeping regulatory regime.

A 5-4 Supreme Court decision in Massachusetts v. EPA opened the door to this mischief, although that ruling was about motor-vehicle regulation. The EPA decision today, judging by their proposed regulations, goes far beyond that.


FOXNews.com - EPA's Greenhouse Gases Declaration -- Putting America On the Road to Ruin

 

[Polk]

"He is able to make this commitment, we can tell from today’s EPA announcement, because he intends to use EPA regulation to short-circuit the democratic process, boycott the Congress, and put us all under a sweeping regulatory regime."

More "fair and balanced" from Fox.

Maybe they'll run a piece on how the Republicans filibustering every bill in the Senate "short-circuit the democratic process". I won't hold my breath waiting.

 

[oreo]

"He is able to make this commitment, we can tell from today’s EPA announcement, because he intends to use EPA regulation to short-circuit the democratic process, boycott the Congress, and put us all under a sweeping regulatory regime."

More "fair and balanced" from Fox.

Maybe they'll run a piece on how the Republicans filibustering every bill in the Senate "short-circuit the democratic process". I won't hold my breath waiting.

You have elected the most IGNORANT POTUS states ever. The scandel is on over Global warming & in fact 65% of this nation do not believe Al Gore's rhetoric--because every single time he opens his mouth now-a-days--there is someone challenging his stats.

All this bill is going to do is DRIVE up energy prices for every single American in this country--in a time that Obama has quoted as the greatest economic crisis since the great depression.

Now if these little Eienstiens that you have elected can figure out how to keep our ultra-clean--CO2 free air--over this country versus wandering off to other countries that are not imposing these kind of restrictions--please inform us of it--

Next these morons will tax us for breathing.



How's all that hopey & changey working for ya---

 

[MaggieMae]

"He is able to make this commitment, we can tell from today’s EPA announcement, because he intends to use EPA regulation to short-circuit the democratic process, boycott the Congress, and put us all under a sweeping regulatory regime."

More "fair and balanced" from Fox.

Maybe they'll run a piece on how the Republicans filibustering every bill in the Senate "short-circuit the democratic process". I won't hold my breath waiting.

You have elected the most IGNORANT POTUS states ever. The scandel is on over Global warming & in fact 65% of this nation do not believe Al Gore's rhetoric--because every single time he opens his mouth now-a-days--there is someone challenging his stats.

All this bill is going to do is DRIVE up energy prices for every single American in this country--in a time that Obama has quoted as the greatest economic crisis since the great depression.

Now if these little Eienstiens that you have elected can figure out how to keep our ultra-clean--CO2 free air--over this country versus wandering off to other countries that are not imposing these kind of restrictions--please inform us of it--

Next these morons will tax us for breathing.

View attachment 8961

How's all that hopey & changey working for ya---

Although I don't agree with the cap and trade proposition for different reasons (too open for loopholes creating fraud and profiteering), I wonder where you get your 65% number. It's fine to be on the side of the naysayers, but you really don't need to embellish your opinions with made up shit and hissy fits. Here's ALL the polls on the subject. Enjoy:

Environment

 

[oreo]

"He is able to make this commitment, we can tell from today’s EPA announcement, because he intends to use EPA regulation to short-circuit the democratic process, boycott the Congress, and put us all under a sweeping regulatory regime."

More "fair and balanced" from Fox.

Maybe they'll run a piece on how the Republicans filibustering every bill in the Senate "short-circuit the democratic process". I won't hold my breath waiting.

You have elected the most IGNORANT POTUS states ever. The scandel is on over Global warming & in fact 65% of this nation do not believe Al Gore's rhetoric--because every single time he opens his mouth now-a-days--there is someone challenging his stats.

All this bill is going to do is DRIVE up energy prices for every single American in this country--in a time that Obama has quoted as the greatest economic crisis since the great depression.

Now if these little Eienstiens that you have elected can figure out how to keep our ultra-clean--CO2 free air--over this country versus wandering off to other countries that are not imposing these kind of restrictions--please inform us of it--

Next these morons will tax us for breathing.

View attachment 8961

How's all that hopey & changey working for ya---

Although I don't agree with the cap and trade proposition for different reasons (too open for loopholes creating fraud and profiteering), I wonder where you get your 65% number. It's fine to be on the side of the naysayers, but you really don't need to embellish your opinions with made up shit and hissy fits. Here's ALL the polls on the subject. Enjoy:

Environment

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtuuntl8Ylc[/ame]

 

[Murf76]

This is just another dog and pony show brought to us by the Socialist Loonies of the Obama Administration. Democrats in Congress will run around the media circuit doing their best rendition of Chicken Little, claiming that both the sky *and* the EPA are both about to fall on their widdle heads... when all the while the whole bunch of 'em are in cahoots together.

Obama, his Socialist Cronies, and the EPA all want the same thing... Cap-and-Scam.

Think about it... If the EPA was blackmailing an honest Congress, there wouldn't be any of this 'John-Kerry-We-Must-Act-Now' bullshit. Congress could take any federal agency who overtly threatened them apart brick by brick. The EPA would find itself in a one-room office, down some squalid alley in D.C., using cup and string telephones.

Further, the idea that Congress could somehow preempt EPA action by passing arbitrary legislation is ludicrous if one assumes that the authority is with the EPA and not the Congress. If the EPA has all the power, it doesn't matter what Congress does one way or another.

Cap-and-Trade is a con-job. When one truly understands that Carbon Units are CASH for all intents and purposes, it's easy to see why they want it. The sky's the limit for corrupt politicians and businessmen alike. It works like The Mob. You buy off your local bureaucrat by supporting his political campaigns, and he kicks you back the bucks when he gets into office. Conversely, he has the same power to starve your competitors or any who refuse to service him.

Nothing good is accomplished. Even if they put this plan into action tomorrow, and every country adopted it... they'd only reduce CO2 by something like one tenth of one percent.
Under this plan, the rich and powerful become MORE rich and powerful, the poor get poorer.. and the truly poverty-stricken, dying in droves already, die at an even greater rate.

 

[oreo]

"He is able to make this commitment, we can tell from today’s EPA announcement, because he intends to use EPA regulation to short-circuit the democratic process, boycott the Congress, and put us all under a sweeping regulatory regime."

More "fair and balanced" from Fox.

Maybe they'll run a piece on how the Republicans filibustering every bill in the Senate "short-circuit the democratic process". I won't hold my breath waiting.

You have elected the most IGNORANT POTUS states ever. The scandel is on over Global warming & in fact 65% of this nation do not believe Al Gore's rhetoric--because every single time he opens his mouth now-a-days--there is someone challenging his stats.

All this bill is going to do is DRIVE up energy prices for every single American in this country--in a time that Obama has quoted as the greatest economic crisis since the great depression.

Now if these little Eienstiens that you have elected can figure out how to keep our ultra-clean--CO2 free air--over this country versus wandering off to other countries that are not imposing these kind of restrictions--please inform us of it--

Next these morons will tax us for breathing.

View attachment 8961

How's all that hopey & changey working for ya---

Although I don't agree with the cap and trade proposition for different reasons (too open for loopholes creating fraud and profiteering), I wonder where you get your 65% number. It's fine to be on the side of the naysayers, but you really don't need to embellish your opinions with made up shit and hissy fits. Here's ALL the polls on the subject. Enjoy:

Environment

Increased Number Think Global Warming Is “Exaggerated”

 

[MaggieMae]

You have elected the most IGNORANT POTUS states ever. The scandel is on over Global warming & in fact 65% of this nation do not believe Al Gore's rhetoric--because every single time he opens his mouth now-a-days--there is someone challenging his stats.

All this bill is going to do is DRIVE up energy prices for every single American in this country--in a time that Obama has quoted as the greatest economic crisis since the great depression.

Now if these little Eienstiens that you have elected can figure out how to keep our ultra-clean--CO2 free air--over this country versus wandering off to other countries that are not imposing these kind of restrictions--please inform us of it--

Next these morons will tax us for breathing.

View attachment 8961

How's all that hopey & changey working for ya---

Although I don't agree with the cap and trade proposition for different reasons (too open for loopholes creating fraud and profiteering), I wonder where you get your 65% number. It's fine to be on the side of the naysayers, but you really don't need to embellish your opinions with made up shit and hissy fits. Here's ALL the polls on the subject. Enjoy:

Environment

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtuuntl8Ylc[/ame]

Krauthammer seems to forget that the same threats of "revolution" were made during debate over the Clean Air Act. He's just another wild-eyed reactionary (but better at articulating his doomsday predictions).

And there was apparently another guest at that table, one who has taken more than $800,000 in campaign donations from Big Oil and therefore has a vested interest in the subject, whose name is Senator James Inhofe.

 

[MaggieMae]

You have elected the most IGNORANT POTUS states ever. The scandel is on over Global warming & in fact 65% of this nation do not believe Al Gore's rhetoric--because every single time he opens his mouth now-a-days--there is someone challenging his stats.

All this bill is going to do is DRIVE up energy prices for every single American in this country--in a time that Obama has quoted as the greatest economic crisis since the great depression.

Now if these little Eienstiens that you have elected can figure out how to keep our ultra-clean--CO2 free air--over this country versus wandering off to other countries that are not imposing these kind of restrictions--please inform us of it--

Next these morons will tax us for breathing.

View attachment 8961

How's all that hopey & changey working for ya---

Although I don't agree with the cap and trade proposition for different reasons (too open for loopholes creating fraud and profiteering), I wonder where you get your 65% number. It's fine to be on the side of the naysayers, but you really don't need to embellish your opinions with made up shit and hissy fits. Here's ALL the polls on the subject. Enjoy:

Environment

Increased Number Think Global Warming Is “Exaggerated”



View attachment 8962

Uh huh. Thanks for the confirmation. The Gallop poll you cite has it at 41%, not at your exaggerated 65%.

Next?

 

[Murf76]

Krauthammer seems to forget that the same threats of "revolution" were made during debate over the Clean Air Act. He's just another wild-eyed reactionary (but better at articulating his doomsday predictions).

Revolution:

2 a : a sudden, radical, or complete change
b : a fundamental change in political organization; especially : the overthrow or renunciation of one government or ruler and the substitution of another by the governed
c : activity or movement designed to effect fundamental changes in the socioeconomic situation
d : a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something : a change of paradigm <the Copernican revolution>
e : a changeover in use or preference especially in technology <the computer revolution> <the foreign car revolution>
revolution - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Not all "revolutions" involve tricorne hats and muskets.

 

[oreo]

Although I don't agree with the cap and trade proposition for different reasons (too open for loopholes creating fraud and profiteering), I wonder where you get your 65% number. It's fine to be on the side of the naysayers, but you really don't need to embellish your opinions with made up shit and hissy fits. Here's ALL the polls on the subject. Enjoy:

Environment

Increased Number Think Global Warming Is â&#8364;&#339;Exaggeratedâ&#8364;






Uh huh. Thanks for the confirmation. The Gallop poll you cite has it at 41%, not at your exaggerated 65%.

Next?

View attachment 8962

And "trending down"--- & will continue to do so, especially once Americans get a clue that reports to the contrary have been completely SQUASHED. This is another government agenda to control energy in this country. Not only do they want your health--they want to control the thermostat in your home.

Now, I don't mind to clean renewable energy, in fact I am all for it. But you probably should ask yourself--exactly what "green jobs" are out there? There was not ONE SINGLE PENNY in the 787 Billion dollar so called stimulus bill--that was--for a nuclear power plant. Why? Because democrats, including Obama only tell you they want Nuclear power when it comes to getting your vote. Right now there is a natural gas reserve off of the coast of Santa Barbara that is large enough to heat our homes for the next 4 years. Are they drilling for it? Hell NO.

To add--only 11 billion was included for infracstructure for wind back to a power plant, when all experts in the field stated they needed 110 billion to complete.

I am an electrical contractor--& if you believe that we can light up this entire country on wind & solar alone---you are 100% mistaken. Now what morons inact this, WITHOUT having other energy infracstructure in place--- And if you believe that we will one day in the future that we will be able to operate without any oil, you are sadly mistaken. We should be drilling for that along with my above suggestions, which would put millions of laid off construction workers back to work.

The ONLY thing this does is produce a higher utility bill for Americans. YOU have elected a bunch of morons--that really do not seek alternative sources of energy or infrastructure--they just want more of your money. And by god--they're determined to get it, under the guise of hysterical--mal-aligned & corrupt science.






So what say you now Maggie Mae?

 

[oreo]

Increased Number Think Global Warming Is â&#8364;&#339;Exaggeratedâ&#8364;






Uh huh. Thanks for the confirmation. The Gallop poll you cite has it at 41%, not at your exaggerated 65%.

Next?

View attachment 8962

And "trending down"--- & will continue to do so, especially once Americans get a clue that reports to the contrary have been completely SQUASHED. This is another government agenda to control energy in this country. Not only do they want your health--they want to control the thermostat in your home.

Now, I don't mind to clean renewable energy, in fact I am all for it. But you probably should ask yourself--exactly what "green jobs" are out there? There was not ONE SINGLE PENNY in the 787 Billion dollar so called stimulus bill--that was--for a nuclear power plant. Why? Because democrats, including Obama only tell you they want Nuclear power when it comes to getting your vote. Right now there is a natural gas reserve off of the coast of Santa Barbara that is large enough to heat our homes for the next 4 years. Are they drilling for it? Hell NO.

To add--only 11 billion was included for infracstructure for wind back to a power plant, when all experts in the field stated they needed 110 billion to complete.

I am an electrical contractor--& if you believe that we can light up this entire country on wind & solar alone---you are 100% mistaken. Now what morons inact this, WITHOUT having other energy infracstructure in place--- And if you believe that we will one day in the future that we will be able to operate without any oil, you are sadly mistaken. We should be drilling for that along with my above suggestions, which would put millions of laid off construction workers back to work.

The ONLY thing this does is produce a higher utility bill for Americans. YOU have elected a bunch of morons--that really do not seek alternative sources of energy or infrastructure--they just want more of your money. And by god--they're determined to get it, under the guise of hysterical--mal-aligned & corrupt science.

View attachment 8963




So what say you now Maggie Mae?

UPPS--forgot to mention that house Republicans recently came up with a bill that would build 20 new nuclear power plants over the next 20 years.

Guess who voted against it---- Nancy Pelosi put the hammer down on that bill so fast--it never even came to the floor for debate.

 

[Polk]

You have elected the most IGNORANT POTUS states ever. The scandel is on over Global warming & in fact 65% of this nation do not believe Al Gore's rhetoric--because every single time he opens his mouth now-a-days--there is someone challenging his stats.

Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

You claim 65% do not believe in global warming.

According to polling published last week (Ipsos/McClatchy, 3-6 Dec 2009. 1,120 nationwide, MoE ± 2.9):

70% believe global warming is occurring.
61% of those state the primary cause is human activity.
52% support cap and trade.
50% support cap and trade even if it were to raise their electric bills by ten dollars a month.

 

[Polk]

Now, I don't mind to clean renewable energy, in fact I am all for it. But you probably should ask yourself--exactly what "green jobs" are out there? There was not ONE SINGLE PENNY in the 787 Billion dollar so called stimulus bill--that was--for a nuclear power plant.

Last time I checked, we don't have a state-owned electric company.

Right now there is a natural gas reserve off of the coast of Santa Barbara that is large enough to heat our homes for the next 4 years. Are they drilling for it? Hell NO.

Source?

To add--only 11 billion was included for infracstructure for wind back to a power plant, when all experts in the field stated they needed 110 billion to complete.

You can thank your party for that, since they demanded it be cut from the bill.

 

[MaggieMae]

This is another government agenda to control energy in this country. Not only do they want your health--they want to control the thermostat in your home.

Now, I don't mind to clean renewable energy, in fact I am all for it. But you probably should ask yourself--exactly what "green jobs" are out there? There was not ONE SINGLE PENNY in the 787 Billion dollar so called stimulus bill--that was--for a nuclear power plant. Why? Because democrats, including Obama only tell you they want Nuclear power when it comes to getting your vote. Right now there is a natural gas reserve off of the coast of Santa Barbara that is large enough to heat our homes for the next 4 years. Are they drilling for it? Hell NO.

Spouting the usual right-wing talking points. I wish you would educate yourself.

First off, energy is one of those life-sustaining areas that SHOULD BE "controlled" (regulated) by the government. What do you think the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is? A GOVERNMENT agency.

Second, if you check out, and then really absorb the wealth of information on energy production, you would know that the USA already uses 20% of its energy from nuclear power plants, but new ones take years to build. We also make use of natural gas to the extent possible. All of the details can be found at this link, which I suggest you peruse so that you'll be more knowledgeable. There are many hyperlinks in it, so get busy.

EIA’s Energy in Brief: What is the status of the U.S. nuclear industry?

And finally, the fact that you and others from the right immediately glom onto ONE portion of ONE discussion on how everyone can help reduce energy costs (maintaining a constant temperature level) and use THAT as your debate topic is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[MaggieMae]

View attachment 8962

And "trending down"--- & will continue to do so, especially once Americans get a clue that reports to the contrary have been completely SQUASHED. This is another government agenda to control energy in this country. Not only do they want your health--they want to control the thermostat in your home.

Now, I don't mind to clean renewable energy, in fact I am all for it. But you probably should ask yourself--exactly what "green jobs" are out there? There was not ONE SINGLE PENNY in the 787 Billion dollar so called stimulus bill--that was--for a nuclear power plant. Why? Because democrats, including Obama only tell you they want Nuclear power when it comes to getting your vote. Right now there is a natural gas reserve off of the coast of Santa Barbara that is large enough to heat our homes for the next 4 years. Are they drilling for it? Hell NO.

To add--only 11 billion was included for infracstructure for wind back to a power plant, when all experts in the field stated they needed 110 billion to complete.

I am an electrical contractor--& if you believe that we can light up this entire country on wind & solar alone---you are 100% mistaken. Now what morons inact this, WITHOUT having other energy infracstructure in place--- And if you believe that we will one day in the future that we will be able to operate without any oil, you are sadly mistaken. We should be drilling for that along with my above suggestions, which would put millions of laid off construction workers back to work.

The ONLY thing this does is produce a higher utility bill for Americans. YOU have elected a bunch of morons--that really do not seek alternative sources of energy or infrastructure--they just want more of your money. And by god--they're determined to get it, under the guise of hysterical--mal-aligned & corrupt science.

View attachment 8963




So what say you now Maggie Mae?

UPPS--forgot to mention that house Republicans recently came up with a bill that would build 20 new nuclear power plants over the next 20 years.

Guess who voted against it---- Nancy Pelosi put the hammer down on that bill so fast--it never even came to the floor for debate.

Twenty is an absurd number. The cost alone is prohibitive. Plus that's 20 times more nuclear waste to add to the pile that we still don't know what to do with. Brilliant. Typical Republicans putting out stupid bills like that they KNOW are ridiculous and they only do it to make the 6:00 news.

I'm not a Pelosi fan, and I'm not against nuclear power plants, by the way. But you people are becoming more ignorant on the subject of energy,while you should be becoming more educated on the subject what with all the information available at your fingertips.

 

[Gunny]

"He is able to make this commitment, we can tell from today’s EPA announcement, because he intends to use EPA regulation to short-circuit the democratic process, boycott the Congress, and put us all under a sweeping regulatory regime."

More "fair and balanced" from Fox.

Maybe they'll run a piece on how the Republicans filibustering every bill in the Senate "short-circuit the democratic process". I won't hold my breath waiting.

Deflection alert.

 

[MaggieMae]

Krauthammer seems to forget that the same threats of "revolution" were made during debate over the Clean Air Act. He's just another wild-eyed reactionary (but better at articulating his doomsday predictions).

Revolution:

2 a : a sudden, radical, or complete change
b : a fundamental change in political organization; especially : the overthrow or renunciation of one government or ruler and the substitution of another by the governed
c : activity or movement designed to effect fundamental changes in the socioeconomic situation
d : a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something : a change of paradigm <the Copernican revolution>
e : a changeover in use or preference especially in technology <the computer revolution> <the foreign car revolution>
revolution - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Not all "revolutions" involve tricorne hats and muskets.

So...you made my point. Krauthammer acts like "revolt" against policy is something new when it isn't.

 

[Navy1960]

WASHINGTON — Americans who think global warming is caused by human activity, including vehicle and industrial emissions, are now a minority for the first time in nearly two years, a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll said Monday.

Only 45 percent of the 1,041 adults surveyed on December 2-3 believed global warming is a proven fact and mostly caused by human activity, down from 56 percent in October 2007, the survey found.
AFP: Americans cool to human-caused global warming: poll

CNN is not what would you call a a bastion of Republican thinking, however as to the original thread title. I responded to this in another post. The EPA is using a decision that is narrowly ruled on one section of the CAA relating to tailpipe emissions on new cars and trucks. To make the leap of faith that this now gives them the power to regulate ALL emissions from all sources is a giant leap of faith on the part of the EPA which will soon find itself right back in front of the very same court should they choose to do so. So while a finding by the EPA is consistant with the ruling when it comes to the section and that section only, it does give them the power to regulate those gases from new cars and trucks. Which is not really all that much of show stopper because the Fed. regulates it anyway.

 

[MaggieMae]

WASHINGTON — Americans who think global warming is caused by human activity, including vehicle and industrial emissions, are now a minority for the first time in nearly two years, a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll said Monday.

Only 45 percent of the 1,041 adults surveyed on December 2-3 believed global warming is a proven fact and mostly caused by human activity, down from 56 percent in October 2007, the survey found.AFP: Americans cool to human-caused global warming: poll

CNN is not what would you call a a bastion of Republican thinking, however as to the original thread title. I responded to this in another post. The EPA is using a decision that is narrowly ruled on one section of the CAA relating to tailpipe emissions on new cars and trucks. To make the leap of faith that this now gives them the power to regulate ALL emissions from all sources is a giant leap of faith on the part of the EPA which will soon find itself right back in front of the very same court should they choose to do so. So while a finding by the EPA is consistant with the ruling when it comes to the section and that section only, it does give them the power to regulate those gases from new cars and trucks. Which is not really all that much of show stopper because the Fed. regulates it anyway.

Navy, it's the way the question was posed. I don't think global warming is MOSTLY CAUSED BY human activity either. What I do believe, and here's where the percentages rise in most other polling, is that human activity is contributing to speeding up what is probably a normal cycle.