Flat Tax Anyone?

[Skull Pilot]

A flat tax sound reasonable. But the progressive rate isn't the biggest problem with our tax code. The biggest problem is that the state uses loopholes (incentives, credits, exemptions, deductions, rebates, "penalties", etc, etc..) as back-door legislation to manipulate society.

Which is why all deductions should be eliminated.

Tax every dollar earned by any means at the same low rate.

We have to put an end to the government's ham handed social engineering experiments.

 

[Freemason9]

A flat tax sound reasonable. But the progressive rate isn't the biggest problem with our tax code. The biggest problem is that the state uses loopholes (incentives, credits, exemptions, deductions, rebates, "penalties", etc, etc..) as back-door legislation to manipulate society.

Which is why all deductions should be eliminated.

Tax every dollar earned by any means at the same low rate.

We have to put an end to the government's ham handed social engineering experiments.

AGAIN, the "flat tax" does nothing at all to eliminate complex tax laws regarding taxable income. You guys just DO NOT seem to get this.

 

[RKMBrown]

A flat tax sound reasonable. But the progressive rate isn't the biggest problem with our tax code. The biggest problem is that the state uses loopholes (incentives, credits, exemptions, deductions, rebates, "penalties", etc, etc..) as back-door legislation to manipulate society.

Which is why all deductions should be eliminated.

Tax every dollar earned by any means at the same low rate.

We have to put an end to the government's ham handed social engineering experiments.

AGAIN, the "flat tax" does nothing at all to eliminate complex tax laws regarding taxable income. You guys just DO NOT seem to get this.

The point, since you apparently seem to miss it, is that most of the proponents of a flat tax wish to do so to replace the current the progressive tax system that includes the plethora of exemptions. No that does not change all of the laws but it does change the progressive tax rates and it does remove the plethora of exemptions. I hold that the better system would be to eliminate income tax altogether.

 

[dblack]

Which is why all deductions should be eliminated.

Tax every dollar earned by any means at the same low rate.

We have to put an end to the government's ham handed social engineering experiments.

AGAIN, the "flat tax" does nothing at all to eliminate complex tax laws regarding taxable income. You guys just DO NOT seem to get this.

The point, since you apparently seem to miss it, is that most of the proponents of a flat tax wish to do so to replace the current the progressive tax system that includes the plethora of exemptions. No that does not change all of the laws but it does change the progressive tax rates and it does remove the plethora of exemptions. I hold that the better system would be to eliminate income tax altogether.

All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice. Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

The mortgage interest deduction?
Deductions for children and dependents?
Exemptions for religious groups?
Employer provided health insurance?
Earned Income tax credit?
Charitable contributions?
All of the ad-hoc 'incentives' designed to push people in to spending their money, or otherwise behaving, in ways the government dictates?

If you can find flat tax campaigns that propose to get rid of these, I'll get on board.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A flat tax sound reasonable. But the progressive rate isn't the biggest problem with our tax code. The biggest problem is that the state uses loopholes (incentives, credits, exemptions, deductions, rebates, "penalties", etc, etc..) as back-door legislation to manipulate society.

Which is why all deductions should be eliminated.

Tax every dollar earned by any means at the same low rate.

We have to put an end to the government's ham handed social engineering experiments.

AGAIN, the "flat tax" does nothing at all to eliminate complex tax laws regarding taxable income. You guys just DO NOT seem to get this.

If ALL income is treated exactly the same then there is no problem. That's what you don't seem to get.

It doesn't matter how income is derived if all of it is treated the same.

 

[Skull Pilot]

AGAIN, the "flat tax" does nothing at all to eliminate complex tax laws regarding taxable income. You guys just DO NOT seem to get this.

The point, since you apparently seem to miss it, is that most of the proponents of a flat tax wish to do so to replace the current the progressive tax system that includes the plethora of exemptions. No that does not change all of the laws but it does change the progressive tax rates and it does remove the plethora of exemptions. I hold that the better system would be to eliminate income tax altogether.

All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice. Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

The mortgage interest deduction?
Deductions for children and dependents?
Exemptions for religious groups?
Employer provided health insurance?
Earned Income tax credit?
Charitable contributions?
All of the ad-hoc 'incentives' designed to push people in to spending their money, or otherwise behaving, in ways the government dictates?

If you can find flat tax campaigns that propose to get rid of these, I'll get on board.

I agree. ALL deductions need to be eliminated and the rate lowered.

It's silly to have high tax rates then give deductions and exemptions. It's like marking up an item before putting it on sale.

 

[dblack]

The point, since you apparently seem to miss it, is that most of the proponents of a flat tax wish to do so to replace the current the progressive tax system that includes the plethora of exemptions. No that does not change all of the laws but it does change the progressive tax rates and it does remove the plethora of exemptions. I hold that the better system would be to eliminate income tax altogether.

All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice. Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

The mortgage interest deduction?
Deductions for children and dependents?
Exemptions for religious groups?
Employer provided health insurance?
Earned Income tax credit?
Charitable contributions?
All of the ad-hoc 'incentives' designed to push people in to spending their money, or otherwise behaving, in ways the government dictates?

If you can find flat tax campaigns that propose to get rid of these, I'll get on board.

I agree. ALL deductions need to be eliminated and the rate lowered.

It's silly to have high tax rates then give deductions and exemptions. It's like marking up an item before putting it on sale.

Yet that is the pricing model for many retailers, eh? The unfortunate fact is that this kind of con fools most of the people most of the time. The core mindset of the welfare state is that everyone thinks they'll be able to game the system better than the other guy.

 

[RKMBrown]

All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice. Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

The mortgage interest deduction?
Deductions for children and dependents?
Exemptions for religious groups?
Employer provided health insurance?
Earned Income tax credit?
Charitable contributions?
All of the ad-hoc 'incentives' designed to push people in to spending their money, or otherwise behaving, in ways the government dictates?

If you can find flat tax campaigns that propose to get rid of these, I'll get on board.

>>> All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice.

Categorically untrue set of statements.

>>> Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

All of the above.

>>> If you can find flat tax campaigns that propose to get rid of these, I'll get on board.

Can you find a flat tax proposal that was not a flat tax?

 

[dblack]

All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice. Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

The mortgage interest deduction?
Deductions for children and dependents?
Exemptions for religious groups?
Employer provided health insurance?
Earned Income tax credit?
Charitable contributions?
All of the ad-hoc 'incentives' designed to push people in to spending their money, or otherwise behaving, in ways the government dictates?

If you can find flat tax campaigns that propose to get rid of these, I'll get on board.

>>> All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice.

Categorically untrue set of statements.

>>> Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

All of the above.

Link? I'm not disputing your claim, I want to join up.

 

[RKMBrown]

All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice. Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

The mortgage interest deduction?
Deductions for children and dependents?
Exemptions for religious groups?
Employer provided health insurance?
Earned Income tax credit?
Charitable contributions?
All of the ad-hoc 'incentives' designed to push people in to spending their money, or otherwise behaving, in ways the government dictates?

If you can find flat tax campaigns that propose to get rid of these, I'll get on board.

>>> All they ever emphasize is replacing the progressive nature of income tax with a flat rate. They do some hand-waving regarding cutting loopholes, but I've never heard any of them seriously attack the practice.

Categorically untrue set of statements.

>>> Which of the following would the flat-taxers abolish?

All of the above.

Link? I'm not disputing your claim, I want to join up.

Flat tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"True" flat rate income tax

A true flat rate tax is a system of taxation where one tax rate is applied to all income with no deductions or exemptions.

 

[RKMBrown]

Ron Paul on Tax Reform

Ron Paul's flat tax rate is the best proposal I've heard. Zero % flat rate on income ... no deductions or exemptions.

 

[dblack]

Ron Paul on Tax Reform

Ron Paul's flat tax rate is the best proposal I've heard. Zero % flat rate on income ... no deductions or exemptions.

Well, yeah. Ron Paul. I'm already supporting him. I thought you were talking about the broader flat tax movement, which in my experience tends to shuffle its feet when we talk about getting rid of stuff like the home mortgage deduction.

 

[RKMBrown]

Ron Paul on Tax Reform

Ron Paul's flat tax rate is the best proposal I've heard. Zero % flat rate on income ... no deductions or exemptions.

Well, yeah. Ron Paul. I'm already supporting him. I thought you were talking about the broader flat tax movement, which in my experience tends to shuffle its feet when we talk about getting rid of stuff like the home mortgage deduction.

Yeah ... well the republican's are not really conservative are they? If you want to find liberty you won't find it in either of the two main parties.

 

[SAYIT]

Ron Paul on Tax Reform

Ron Paul's flat tax rate is the best proposal I've heard. Zero % flat rate on income ... no deductions or exemptions.

Well, yeah. Ron Paul. I'm already supporting him. I thought you were talking about the broader flat tax movement, which in my experience tends to shuffle its feet when we talk about getting rid of stuff like the home mortgage deduction.

Yeah ... well the republican's are not really conservative are they? If you want to find liberty you won't find it in either of the two main parties.

Regrettably, third-party candidates, particular at the national level, must prove they are as credible as we perceive major party candidates to be.
Most fail.
If a Dem or Repub could win popular support for a flat (or no income) tax plan, as Forbes twice tried, the battle would be fought at the ballot box.
Like many I find much about the now retired Ron Paul's ideas to be worthy but not enough to join what, from the outside, appears to be a cult.
"Income taxes not only diminish liberty, they retard economic growth by discouraging work and production. Our current tax system also forces Americans to waste valuable time and money on compliance with an ever-more complex tax code. The increased interest in flat-tax and national sales tax proposals, as well as the increasing number of small businesses that question the Internal Revenue Service’s (IRS) withholding”system provides further proof that America is tired of the labyrinthine tax code." - Ron Paul, Apr 30, 2009 to Congress

 

[SAYIT]

It is estimated by the IRS that unreported income is about $2trillion per year. The hundreds of billions of lost tax revenue is made up by higher rates on tax payers.
Basing federal income on something other than income could help stop the bleeding and inherent unfairness the current tax system allows.

 

[RKMBrown]

Well, yeah. Ron Paul. I'm already supporting him. I thought you were talking about the broader flat tax movement, which in my experience tends to shuffle its feet when we talk about getting rid of stuff like the home mortgage deduction.

Yeah ... well the republican's are not really conservative are they? If you want to find liberty you won't find it in either of the two main parties.

Regrettably, third-party candidates, particular at the national level, must prove they are as credible as we perceive major party candidates to be.
Most fail.
If a Dem or Repub could win popular support for a flat (or no income) tax plan, as Forbes twice tried, the battle would be fought at the ballot box.
Like many I find much about the now retired Ron Paul's ideas to be worthy but not enough to join what, from the outside, appears to be a cult.
"Income taxes not only diminish liberty, they retard economic growth by discouraging work and production. Our current tax system also forces Americans to waste valuable time and money on compliance with an ever-more complex tax code. The increased interest in flat-tax and national sales tax proposals, as well as the increasing number of small businesses that question the Internal Revenue Service’s (IRS) withholding”system provides further proof that America is tired of the labyrinthine tax code." - Ron Paul, Apr 30, 2009 to Congress

They are hardly "Ron Paul's" ideas.

States like Texas have long survived without an income tax. It's not rocket science, and it does not require a cult like following to eschew income tax. That some people think it's nuts to talk about merely magnifies their stupidity or naivete to the folks who understand economics and history.

 

[Freemason9]

Which is why all deductions should be eliminated.

Tax every dollar earned by any means at the same low rate.

We have to put an end to the government's ham handed social engineering experiments.

AGAIN, the "flat tax" does nothing at all to eliminate complex tax laws regarding taxable income. You guys just DO NOT seem to get this.

If ALL income is treated exactly the same then there is no problem. That's what you don't seem to get.

It doesn't matter how income is derived if all of it is treated the same.

Goddammit, never mind.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yeah ... well the republican's are not really conservative are they?

Well let's look at it more realistically. Republicans in Congress make $175 a year, a ton of money compared to most people. You can bet if promising to vote conservative and voting conservative got someone a $175k salary, millions would line up for the Republican jobs! In short, Republicans are as conservative as they can afford to be or as conservative as the voters want them to be.

Also, if Republicans were pure given today's electorate they would be as impotent as today's Libertarian Party

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

It is estimated by the IRS that unreported income is about $2trillion per year. The hundreds of billions of lost tax revenue is made up by higher rates on tax payers.
Basing federal income on something other than income could help stop the bleeding and inherent unfairness the current tax system allows.

On what then? A property tax not apportioned based on the States' populations is not Constitutional. A consumption tax will kill consumer spending and punish retirees and may also have Constitutional issues.

 

[regent]

A flat tax wouldn't last long, if even voted for. The Congress and people have worked out a system that seems, to satisfy most: you contribute to my campaign and I'll vote for a loophole for your source of income. Most Americans seem satisfied with this system.