First Civil-Union Couple Parting Ways

[Max Power]

Harm is a completely seperate issue, and NOT the one disgust in my post.

YOU are starting right off with the old liberal "shuck and jive" game. "When confronted with indisputable truth, deflect the issue to something else".

What exactly would your indisputable truth be?

Well, lowonpower, us members that have been here awhile have been over and over this "who does it harm" bullshit dozens of times with liberals who support fags and them getting married. I can say with total certainty, that the queer life is a dangerous one. They are more likely to have multiple partners, more likely to have mental problems, more likely to be drub abusers, have higher mortality rates, on and on. Now I could go through what I have in the past dozens of times and google all these facts, but there's TONS of websites that list them, and they're EASY to find. So look for yourself. I'm tired of trying to educate every sorry ass liberal that comes along and gives me the same tired ass bull shit line about consenting adults and who is it harming. They're harming themselves. They're harming the poor people around them. They're harming everybody in the big picture.

Right. You don't believe in freedom, because it's dangerous. Gotcha.

 

[007]

What exactly would your indisputable truth be?

Again, putting on the ignorant act. Well... maybe you're not acting.

Right. You don't believe in freedom, because it's dangerous. Gotcha.

Faggots and their destructive, preverted behavior has absolutely NOTHING to do with my belief in freedom.

Try again, only harder. You're making a fool of yourself with this nonesense.

 

[KarlMarx]

Quite the contrary.

You're quoting the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

But since you're bringing up the topic of a Creator and Law....

Again, I still believe rights do not exist outside the context of Law. But then, there is God's Law, which our laws are based upon (i.e. the Laws of Moses)

Dig this... from Genesis Chapter 2 Verse 24....

24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

So even God (or if you insist Moses) doesn't agree with you

.........................

No country that has gay marriage has seen an improvement in the divorce rate, I've read that the contrary is true.

So, let's go with that. If gay marriage doesn't help society by improving the institution of marriage, why do it? After all, why is there an institution of marriage?

Originally the intent of marriage was to give human beings a way to produce offspring and to provide a stable environment for children to be raised. After all, without the benefit of marriage, how does one know who are his children? Furthermore, a strong man could father children with as many women as he liked and not be held accountable. Marriage provides legal protections in such cases.

By definition, gays cannot produce offspring....

but, gays can adopt! you say. But they can do that already.

Then there are the legal issues. Gays won't be able to leave their property to their partners if they don't marry... that's not true, you can name any person as your beneficiary without being married to them

Oh, but what about benefits for the partner? Married people have their spouses covered under their insurance plan at work, but gays can't.... That's not true, many companies already provide coverage for partners of their gay employees...

but, what about tax benefits? After all, married people pay less than single persons. True, they do.

So gay marriage is about, what? Lower taxes?

Well... if that's the case, then I should be able to marry my brother or my sister, my mother, my father, my pet, or an inanimate object to get tax benefits.

So, how does this benefit society? It doesn't. It just makes marriage little more than a sham. And how does this provide a stable environment to raise children? It doesn't and thus brings harm to society.

.............

Lastly, if you truly want to benefit society and improve the human condition, then address the growing problem of divorce in this and other countries. That harms society because it harms children. Children of divorce are more likely to commit crimes, drop out of school, take drugs, be abused (often by the mother's boyfriend) and be treated for a mental condition than children of stable marriages.

If you care about the rights of an oppressed group of people... consider the rights of children and their right to a safe and stable home environment.

 

[MissileMan]

No country that has gay marriage has seen an improvement in the divorce rate, I've read that the contrary is true.

When did someone argue that we should allow gay marriage to improve the overall divorce rate? That would be a stupid argument.

So, let's go with that. If gay marriage doesn't help society by improving the institution of marriage, why do it? After all, why is there an institution of marriage?

Do the over 50% of straight marriages that end in divorce improve the institution of marriage? Why are they allowed?

By definition, gays cannot produce offspring....

Neither can sterile people, people in their 70s and 80s, et al. Should there be a law that marriages must be able to produce progeny? While we're at it, maybe we should outlaw sex except for the purpose of procreation.

Well... if that's the case, then I should be able to marry my brother or my sister, my mother, my father, my pet, or an inanimate object to get tax benefits.

Whatever floats your boat! :teeth:

So, how does this benefit society? It doesn't. It just makes marriage little more than a sham. And how does this provide a stable environment to raise children? It doesn't and thus brings harm to society.

One of your more convoluted thought processes.

.............

Lastly, if you truly want to benefit society and improve the human condition, then address the growing problem of divorce in this and other countries. That harms society because it harms children. Children of divorce are more likely to commit crimes, drop out of school, take drugs, be abused (often by the mother's boyfriend) and be treated for a mental condition than children of stable marriages.

If you care about the rights of an oppressed group of people... consider the rights of children and their right to a safe and stable home environment.

Yep, let's make divorce illegal. Hell! If a couple wants to get away from each other that badly they can do it the old-fashioned way...murder.

 

[KarlMarx]

When did someone argue that we should allow gay marriage to improve the overall divorce rate? That would be a stupid argument.



Do the over 50% of straight marriages that end in divorce improve the institution of marriage? Why are they allowed?


Neither can sterile people, people in their 70s and 80s, et al. Should there be a law that marriages must be able to produce progeny? While we're at it, maybe we should outlaw sex except for the purpose of procreation.




Whatever floats your boat! :teeth:


One of your more convoluted thought processes.

.............



Yep, let's make divorce illegal. Hell! If a couple wants to get away from each other that badly they can do it the old-fashioned way...murder.

I've heard those arguments for gay marriage from gay people.

Murder, eh? Do you always think in terms fo extremes?

Why are marriages allowed when they end in divorce? A better question is... why do we have no-fault divorce and why do we make it easy and sometimes even worth while for divorce to occur?

 

[MissileMan]

I've heard those arguments for gay marriage from gay people.

They're not difficult questions. Care to answer any of them?

Murder, eh? Do you always think in terms fo extremes?

Why do you suppose that people get divorced? I would say that in the majority of cases it's because they can no longer tolerate sharing the same living space. If you leave people no legal way to dissolve a bad situation, they will pursue illegal ones.

Why are marriages allowed when they end in divorce? A better question is... why do we have no-fault divorce and why do we make it easy and sometimes even worth while for divorce to occur?

It doesn't matter whose fault it is...if the marriage is bad, it's bad. I've never heard of a couple actually winding up with more combined worth after a divorce...care to explain how that works?

 

[KarlMarx]

They're not difficult questions. Care to answer any of them?

I did... i.e. answered
1. "Gay marriage will help the institution of marriage"

Why do you suppose that people get divorced? I would say that in the majority of cases it's because they can no longer tolerate sharing the same living space. If you leave people no legal way to dissolve a bad situation, they will pursue illegal ones.

85% of divorces are instigated by women. In almost all cases, divorce is initiated by one side over the objections of the other.

I also didn't say that divorce should be illegal. I do endorse reform of divorce laws.

The argument that people will pursue illegal means to dissolve their marriage doesn't hold water. Divorce is legal and liberal in New York State but because of property laws being what they are in certain states, one spouse murders the other during a divorce proceeding. It happened here a few years ago (actually, the murder occurred on 9/11/01). A car dealer and his wife were divorcing and she suddenly disappeared one day on her way to work... the body was never recovered. The husband was just recently arrested.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is...if the marriage is bad, it's bad. I've never heard of a couple actually winding up with more combined worth after a divorce...care to explain how that works?

Sure... the lawyers gets a ton of money (the average legal fees for a divorce can run in the thousands). Also, it doesn't matter if only one spouse works, the other one gets property, even if there was cheating involved. One spouse can make allegations of child abuse, abuse in general with no supporting evidence and discredit the other party. Child support is tax free to the receiver and the receiver is not obligated to account for what (usually) she does with the money to the other. There are a lot of cases of abuse of the system....

For instance, a man was paying child support to his ex-wife for their three children. As a result of a blood test, he found out that 2 of the 3 children were not his. It tured out that his wife had cheated on him and kept the fact secret. She essentially lied about it, not only to him, but in legal documents (which is tantamount to perjury).

The man took his ex-wife to court and the judge ruled that the husband, not the true father(s) was responsible for continued child support. Even though the identies of the fathers was known. In effect, she perpetrated fraud and adultery and a judge wiped her tears with his checkbook.

 

[mattskramer]

Just as some people are born with six fingers, or a cleft palate, or autistic, or like twins with their skulls growing together, nature can make mistakes. But all are birth defects, and most born with a defect seek help to remedy their affliction. Queers using the "born this way" excuse are doing nothing more than ignoring the fact that they were born with a mental illness. They are making a conscious decision to act out the perversion instead of seeking help. Same thing with pedophiles, bestiality, necrophilia, rapists, murderers, or the little boy that decides to steal a pack of gum down at the corner store, kleptomania. Being sexually attracted to the opposite sex is a defect in the cognitive mental process, and one should be treated for it, not told that it's something cute, an alternative, or acceptable as behavior. Anyone who condones this behavior is NOT doing homosexuals or lesbians any good at all. They are only contributing to their illness.

Giving queers and lezbos the right to validate their unholy union "in any way" is a huge mistake.

Just as some people are born with six fingers, or a cleft palate, or autistic, or like twins with their skulls growing together, nature can make mistakes. But all are birth defects, and most born with a defect seek help to remedy their affliction. Those who prefer using the left hand using the "born this way" excuse are doing nothing more than ignoring the fact that they were born with a mental illness. They are making a conscious decision to act out the perversion instead of seeking help. Same thing with pedophiles, bestiality, necrophilia, rapists, murderers, or the little boy that decides to steal a pack of gum down at the corner store, kleptomania. Preferring to use one’s left hand is a defect in the cognitive mental process, and one should be treated for it, not told that it's something cute, an alternative, or acceptable as behavior. Anyone who condones this behavior is NOT doing left-handed people any good at all. They are only contributing to their illness.

 

[no1tovote4]

I still can't understand how what two people do in their own lives as consenting adults effects mine in any way. The only people who could desanctify my marriage are myself and my wife, no others.

I also still can't see why we need governmental approval to marry anyway, either go to a church and get married or don't. I can see no real reason, other than age and other actual reason to disallow any people marriage if there is a church willing to give it. Worrying about what hole they put it in is for them to do, not me.