Fight the good fight. It is worth it.

[Foxfyre]

Why conservatives are hell bent to make this election about a fundamental shift of our nation, I haven't quite figured out yet.

And I haven't figured out how somebody would think that this election was about a fundamental shift.

 

[LoneLaugher]

This wonderful thread didn't take long to turn into another place to throw punches at Obama. They were sneaky punches......folded right in with those sweet caresses.

 

[Foxfyre]

Nobody is throwing any more punches at Obama than they are throwing at Romney. The hope for the thread is that instead of people whining and starting food fights, that we agree on what we want the President and Congress to accomplish. And then hold their feet to the fire until they do it.

The concept is based on my belief is that we do not belong to the government and therefore are at its mercy, but the government belongs to us and does what we want done.

Maybe that's where the discussion should begin. Can we find any place to agree on what government is for?

 

[LoneLaugher]

I'll gladly engage in honest discussions aimed at finding common ground.....but shit like the following cannot be a part of it. It is all bullshit that will not lead you to where you CLAIM you want to go.

Hell, I'd like to hear Obama say ONE TIME "I was wrong", or "I made the wrong decision"...SOMETHING!

Obama will stop being divisive when his base demands that he stop being divisive.

So far Obama has not shown us much that he is not a dictator and he has not given up his soft Marxist rhetoric.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'll gladly engage in honest discussions aimed at finding common ground.....but shit like the following cannot be a part of it. It is all bullshit that will not lead you to where you CLAIM you want to go.

Hell, I'd like to hear Obama say ONE TIME "I was wrong", or "I made the wrong decision"...SOMETHING!

Obama will stop being divisive when his base demands that he stop being divisive.

So far Obama has not shown us much that he is not a dictator and he has not given up his soft Marxist rhetoric.

There is a basis for those comments LL, which is why we so much wanted to defeat him in this election. Part of honest discussion allows us to be honest about our opinions and where we are coming from. The fact is, Obama has made it perfectly clear that he has had no intention of working with Reublicans. Or with the Democratic side of Congress for that matter in a number of instances. So that is where we start. If the elected leader is not willing to work on a bipartisan basis, there is no place to begin.

For instance the House of Representatives have now sent three budgets to the Senate for consideration. All still languish in committee because Harry Reid will not allow them out to be considered, much less debated and brought to a vote. And Obama has remained silent through all of that. A word from him and no doubt we would have a budget.

Wouldn't it seem like a good idea to you for the Congress to be working from a budget so we know what their intentions are?

 

[Immanuel]

To me, this is our biggest problem. Personally, I don't think it matters who's in the White House, or who we elect to Congress, if all we're going to get is more of the same: professional politicians who represent the highest corporate and/or banking industry bidder and not the majority of citizens who voted for them. Nothing is going to get better until we get our political system out of the hands of Wall Street.

The only thing I disagree with here is"Wall Street". When you use that phrase it limits who you are talking about. K Street is also a major player in the division of America and all the rich SOBs whether investment bankers or not.

Immie

Right, and who do you think owns and operates K Street?

I won't disagree with you there, but when you say, "wall street", you imply (although you might not mean) investment bankers. What your implication leaves out (at least to me) is the George Soros' and Koch Brothers of the world. To me, those are the people behind the decline of America not just "wall street".

Immie

 

[AmyNation]

There can be honest discussion, but only when people take off their party glasses. Obama is not a evil pinko dictator commie, republicans are not racist grandpas trying to drag the country back to the stone age. How can we discuss the state of the nation when so many can't even agree that the other guy loves America too?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Okay, it's all over but the gloating, weeping, and post mortems. The Romney supporters lost the contest. The Obama supporters won. And I'm not sure where that leaves everybody else--feeling self righteous? Non commital? Don't care? Buyer's remorse?

But one fact remains. The popular vote went slightly to Obama in the head to head matchup, but when you add in the 'other parties' votes, he did not get a clear mandate from a majority of the people. But he won. And that is that for now.

But the fact is that even though Obama won--and this would have been true of Romney had he won--the battle is ended but not the war. We remain a widely divided country with one half pulling one way and the other half pulling another way on a lot of issue.

But I believe the vast majority of us share some common ground.

1. We love America.
2. We want what is best for our people.
3. We want responsible, effective government and prosperity for all.
4. We value our freedoms and do not compromise these lightly.
5. We know in our hearts things don't always have to be the way they are.
6. We will fight for what is right when we strongly believe.

So now is not the time to throw in the towel. Now is not the time for either gloating or tucking tails and slinking away. America has been through many many tough times from depression, recession, drought/famine, foreign wars, civil war and has expended much precious blood and treasure to be the nation we have been and can be again. And Americans have proved to be their toughest in the toughest times.

Let's find what common ground there is to be found, but stick to our best principles and continue to fightfor them. If we don't, they weren't worth having in the first place.

1. We love America.
2. We want what is best for our people.
3. We want responsible, effective government and prosperity for all.
4. We value our freedoms and do not compromise these lightly.
5. We know in our hearts things don't always have to be the way they are.
6. We will fight for what is right when we strongly believe.

Those of us who aren’t conservative agree – with clarification on item 5.

If by ‘things don't always have to be the way they are’ you’re referring to the divisive partisan conflict that troubles this great Nation, we agree.

If, however, by ‘things don't always have to be the way they are’ you mean you advocate a reactionary agenda of undermining civil liberties and returning America to an idealized past that never existed to begin with, then we disagree, as such an agenda will only be harmful to America.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Foxfire, please.

The place to start.......if an honest discussion is to be had with an aim toward finding common ground.....is not with a baseless ( in reality ) claim that the President has not tried to work with the GOP.

That is bullshit.

The place to start is more like this:

We need to reduce the influence that monied interests have in shaping the legislative agenda of our elected officials in Washington.

Yes?






Note...I had a typo in that last comment......I wrote "kegislative". Sometimes, shit just falls into one's lap.

 

[Immanuel]

Foxfire, please.

The place to start.......if an honest discussion is to be had with an aim toward finding common ground.....is not with a baseless ( in reality ) claim that the President has not tried to work with the GOP.

That is bullshit.

The place to start is more like this:

We need to reduce the influence that monied interests have in shaping the legislative agenda of our elected officials in Washington.

Yes?






Note...I had a typo in that last comment......I wrote "kegislative". Sometimes, shit just falls into one's lap.

I agree about the monied interests shaping the agenda, but I disagree with that is the place to start.

I think the place to start is with the realization that my liberal neighbor (and I would include you and other liberals on this site in that group) loves this country as much as I do and although we may disagree as to how to do things, the other side is not the evil monstrosity that we have allowed politicians and the monied interests who control them to teach us.

And if we are going to turn this nation around, you, my neighbor, need to realize that about me as well.

Immie

 

[LoneLaugher]

Foxfire, please.

The place to start.......if an honest discussion is to be had with an aim toward finding common ground.....is not with a baseless ( in reality ) claim that the President has not tried to work with the GOP.

That is bullshit.

The place to start is more like this:

We need to reduce the influence that monied interests have in shaping the legislative agenda of our elected officials in Washington.

Yes?






Note...I had a typo in that last comment......I wrote "kegislative". Sometimes, shit just falls into one's lap.

I agree about the monied interests shaping the agenda, but I disagree with that is the place to start.

I think the place to start is with the realization that my liberal neighbor (and I would include you and other liberals on this site in that group) loves this country as much as I do and although we may disagree as to how to do things, the other side is not the evil monstrosity that we have allowed politicians and the monied interests who control them to teach us.

And if we are going to turn this nation around, you, my neighbor, need to realize that about me as well.

Immie

I absolutely realize that. Not in every case, of course. But in most......certainly.

 

[Immanuel]

Foxfire, please.

The place to start.......if an honest discussion is to be had with an aim toward finding common ground.....is not with a baseless ( in reality ) claim that the President has not tried to work with the GOP.

That is bullshit.

The place to start is more like this:

We need to reduce the influence that monied interests have in shaping the legislative agenda of our elected officials in Washington.

Yes?






Note...I had a typo in that last comment......I wrote "kegislative". Sometimes, shit just falls into one's lap.

I agree about the monied interests shaping the agenda, but I disagree with that is the place to start.

I think the place to start is with the realization that my liberal neighbor (and I would include you and other liberals on this site in that group) loves this country as much as I do and although we may disagree as to how to do things, the other side is not the evil monstrosity that we have allowed politicians and the monied interests who control them to teach us.

And if we are going to turn this nation around, you, my neighbor, need to realize that about me as well.

Immie

I absolutely realize that. Not in every case, of course. But in most......certainly.

There are exceptions on both sides... but then, are those exceptions real or just trolls trying to make one side or the other look stupid... hateful... racist... or what have you?

I tend not to read most of the people I consider in those categories. I truly cannot believe that some of the people who post here are as ignorant as they appear. It has to be an "act"! Doesn't it?

Are there really Americans that hate other Americans to the extent that William Joyce and TDM do? There are others, but I will name those two as examples.

Immie

 

[LoneLaugher]

Clearly.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

In my state, gays just got the right to marry and marijuana is now legal. My mind has been completely blown by the sudden amount of freedom I as a citizen just received.

 

[EriktheRed]

I'll gladly engage in honest discussions aimed at finding common ground.....but shit like the following cannot be a part of it. It is all bullshit that will not lead you to where you CLAIM you want to go.

Hell, I'd like to hear Obama say ONE TIME "I was wrong", or "I made the wrong decision"...SOMETHING!

Obama will stop being divisive when his base demands that he stop being divisive.

So far Obama has not shown us much that he is not a dictator and he has not given up his soft Marxist rhetoric.

There is a basis for those comments LL, which is why we so much wanted to defeat him in this election. Part of honest discussion allows us to be honest about our opinions and where we are coming from. The fact is, Obama has made it perfectly clear that he has had no intention of working with Reublicans. Or with the Democratic side of Congress for that matter in a number of instances. So that is where we start. If the elected leader is not willing to work on a bipartisan basis, there is no place to begin.

For instance the House of Representatives have now sent three budgets to the Senate for consideration. All still languish in committee because Harry Reid will not allow them out to be considered, much less debated and brought to a vote. And Obama has remained silent through all of that. A word from him and no doubt we would have a budget.

Wouldn't it seem like a good idea to you for the Congress to be working from a budget so we know what their intentions are?

No.

You act like you're above it all, but you're as big a wingnut as some of the more shrill ones on here with your rhetoric. The way you and others have characterized this President is a big part of why your side has failed to unseat him.

 

[Foxfyre]

There can be honest discussion, but only when people take off their party glasses. Obama is not a evil pinko dictator commie, republicans are not racist grandpas trying to drag the country back to the stone age. How can we discuss the state of the nation when so many can't even agree that the other guy loves America too?

Amen to this and to Immie's immediately preceding post. The two sides have been demonizing each other for so long that we become unable to see or hear each other any other way. If I am wrong about Obama's efforts at bipartianship, I need to be able to accept and adjust my perceptions about that. If CClaytonJones is wrong about conservatives wanting to return to something that never existed he needs to be open to that. And we all need to be more sensitive to how others hear our stated opinions and concepts and make sure those are not misunderstood.

But the bottom line is that most of us really do want what is best for America and Americans. And somewhere between the two poles there is some common ground to be found.

 

[Murf76]

There can be honest discussion, but only when people take off their party glasses. Obama is not a evil pinko dictator commie, republicans are not racist grandpas trying to drag the country back to the stone age. How can we discuss the state of the nation when so many can't even agree that the other guy loves America too?

Amen to this and to Immie's immediately preceding post. The two sides have been demonizing each other for so long that we become unable to see or hear each other any other way. If I am wrong about Obama's efforts at bipartianship, I need to be able to accept and adjust my perceptions about that. If CClaytonJones is wrong about conservatives wanting to return to something that never existed he needs to be open to that. And we all need to be more sensitive to how others hear our stated opinions and concepts and make sure those are not misunderstood.

But the bottom line is that most of us really do want what is best for America and Americans. And somewhere between the two poles there is some common ground to be found.

There's no compromise between collectivism and individual liberty. These things are not compatible. You can't macromanage a society without micromanaging lives. So, all this kumbaya and naval-gazing is nothing but the left's latest feint. They just voted for the status quo, four more years of partisan division and gridlock. And now they're trying to convince you that somehow they've got a "mandate" for their loony agenda and that you shouldn't fight it anymore. But they've got no more "mandate" than they had last week. All they've got is a bunch of lazy looters who don't want to get off the gravy train.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'll gladly engage in honest discussions aimed at finding common ground.....but shit like the following cannot be a part of it. It is all bullshit that will not lead you to where you CLAIM you want to go.

Hell, I'd like to hear Obama say ONE TIME "I was wrong", or "I made the wrong decision"...SOMETHING!

Obama will stop being divisive when his base demands that he stop being divisive.

So far Obama has not shown us much that he is not a dictator and he has not given up his soft Marxist rhetoric.

There is a basis for those comments LL, which is why we so much wanted to defeat him in this election. Part of honest discussion allows us to be honest about our opinions and where we are coming from. The fact is, Obama has made it perfectly clear that he has had no intention of working with Reublicans. Or with the Democratic side of Congress for that matter in a number of instances. So that is where we start. If the elected leader is not willing to work on a bipartisan basis, there is no place to begin.

For instance the House of Representatives have now sent three budgets to the Senate for consideration. All still languish in committee because Harry Reid will not allow them out to be considered, much less debated and brought to a vote. And Obama has remained silent through all of that. A word from him and no doubt we would have a budget.

Wouldn't it seem like a good idea to you for the Congress to be working from a budget so we know what their intentions are?

No.

You act like you're above it all, but you're as big a wingnut as some of the more shrill ones on here with your rhetoric. The way you and others have characterized this President is a big part of why your side has failed to unseat him.

I am a modern American conservative aka classical liberal that puts some of my beliefs and principles imore on one side of the ledger as another. But I can make a good argument for and defend everything I believe in without even mentioning your side or criticizing you and your side in any way. Can you and still allow me the freedom to control my life, choose what I will support, and use my assets as I see fit?

But moving along. . . . .

 

[Cowman]

The good fight has already been fought and won. Haven't you seen the news?

 

[Foxfyre]

DAY TWO​

Okay the board was busy yesterday with post mortems, recriminatios, gloating, grief, celebrating,and driving some very good people off the board due to stupid bets and for other reasons.

So moving along. . . .