Federal Budget Discussion

[JohnDB]

So, the actual budget is in three stages.

Currently the budget general framework is what is being discussed. A BROAD review of receipts and department expenses over the next ten years. Excesses and deficits....

 

[Darkwind]

The chart shows the biggest problem we have with government spending. In each column, the number goes up.

 

[JohnDB]

The GAO decides how much estimated revenue the Government will receive.

And it can be off....especially with a new source of revenue not included in estimates.

 

[DGS49]

We always have the fundamental difference between the Left and the Right on economic projections. The Left assumes that changes in the tax laws will have no effect on peoples' economic behavior (the "Static View"), while the Right presumes that people will modify their behavior according to the changed circumstances (the "Dynamic View").

Take, for example, the "Trump" tax cuts, which took effect in 2017. The Left charged at the time that those tax cuts would result in [pick a ridiculous number] in deficits over the next ten years. But if you take five minutes to look at Federal income tax receipts, you will see that FIT receipts were US$1.546T in 2016 (the year before the tax cuts went into effect), to US$2.632T in 2022, representing an approximately 70% increase in tax revenues over five years. Because of tax CUTS.

Income tax revenues in the U.S. 2024| Statista

Revenue from individual income tax in the United States amounted to about **** trillion U.S.

www.statista.com

But of course, the Democrats took over Congress in 2019, increasing spending dramatically and driving up the deficit to previously unheard of numbers, in spite of the increased revenues brought by the Trump tax cuts.

And today, they STILL blame the huge deficits on Trump's tax cut(!), and MAKE THE SAME PROJECTIONS GOING FORWARD!

This goes beyond stupid. It is intentionally lying to the American people.

And of course, they figuratively BATHE in the observation that tax cuts disproportionately benefit the people who pay the most in taxes, and provide no benefit at all to those who generally pay no income taxes. "Tax cuts for the RICH!"

Evil? Stupid? You decide.

 

[JohnDB]

This interview right here explains in detail WHY we have so much resistance to balancing the federal budget..

 

[JohnDB]

 

[kyzr]

We can call this part of the "deep state" or "the swamp". Where taxpayer money goes to disappear in the pockets of democrats and leftists. Shoveled there by democrat bureaucrats in "independent" agencies who push back on all congressional oversight.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Substitute MAGA in #7 and we are much closer to the issue.

 

[task0778]

Liberals tend to ignore the basic truth that most of the income earned by the top 1% is from investments, and the reality is that when you raise tax rates you are actually increasing the taxes on investments and that means the rich guys will reduce their exposure to those higher tax rates by investing their money in non-taxable things. And that means fewer business startups and expansions; when investors look at a specific business venture they do a cost vs benefit analysis, and when the costs go up (taxes) then there's an increased chance that the analysis does not favor the business venture. And that means fewer jobs created.

The TCJA expires at the end of this year. If it dies then taxes will go up for most taxpayers, not just the rich. And that will hurt the economy big time. And next year is a mid-term election year. I'm sure the democrats will insist on letting the tax cuts for the top 1% expire but extend the law for the rest of us. The GOP will insist that all tax rates be extended. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Votto]

We always have the fundamental difference between the Left and the Right on economic projections. The Left assumes that changes in the tax laws will have no effect on peoples' economic behavior (the "Static View"), while the Right presumes that people will modify their behavior according to the changed circumstances (the "Dynamic View").

Take, for example, the "Trump" tax cuts, which took effect in 2017. The Left charged at the time that those tax cuts would result in [pick a ridiculous number] in deficits over the next ten years. But if you take five minutes to look at Federal income tax receipts, you will see that FIT receipts were US$1.546T in 2016 (the year before the tax cuts went into effect), to US$2.632T in 2022, representing an approximately 70% increase in tax revenues over five years. Because of tax CUTS.

Income tax revenues in the U.S. 2024| Statista

Revenue from individual income tax in the United States amounted to about **** trillion U.S.

www.statista.com

But of course, the Democrats took over Congress in 2019, increasing spending dramatically and driving up the deficit to previously unheard of numbers, in spite of the increased revenues brought by the Trump tax cuts.

And today, they STILL blame the huge deficits on Trump's tax cut(!), and MAKE THE SAME PROJECTIONS GOING FORWARD!

This goes beyond stupid. It is intentionally lying to the American people.

And of course, they figuratively BATHE in the observation that tax cuts disproportionately benefit the people who pay the most in taxes, and provide no benefit at all to those who generally pay no income taxes. "Tax cuts for the RICH!"

Evil? Stupid? You decide.

I would say that looking at previous performance, neither party really gives a damn about spending, other than it going toward a particular parties goals. All that happens at election time is a shift on how the money travels.

Does Trump care? We shall find out, but he is just one man.

 

[task0778]

I would say that looking at previous performance, neither party really gives a damn about spending, other than it going toward a particular parties goals. All that happens at election time is a shift on how the money travels.

Does Trump care? We shall find out, but he is just one man.

I dunno man, it sure looks to me like Trump and Musk are all in on reducing spending.

 

[g5000]

We always have the fundamental difference between the Left and the Right on economic projections. The Left assumes that changes in the tax laws will have no effect on peoples' economic behavior (the "Static View"), while the Right presumes that people will modify their behavior according to the changed circumstances (the "Dynamic View").

Take, for example, the "Trump" tax cuts, which took effect in 2017. The Left charged at the time that those tax cuts would result in [pick a ridiculous number] in deficits over the next ten years. But if you take five minutes to look at Federal income tax receipts, you will see that FIT receipts were US$1.546T in 2016 (the year before the tax cuts went into effect), to US$2.632T in 2022, representing an approximately 70% increase in tax revenues over five years. Because of tax CUTS.

Income tax revenues in the U.S. 2024| Statista

Revenue from individual income tax in the United States amounted to about **** trillion U.S.

www.statista.com

But of course, the Democrats took over Congress in 2019, increasing spending dramatically and driving up the deficit to previously unheard of numbers, in spite of the increased revenues brought by the Trump tax cuts.

And today, they STILL blame the huge deficits on Trump's tax cut(!), and MAKE THE SAME PROJECTIONS GOING FORWARD!

This goes beyond stupid. It is intentionally lying to the American people.

And of course, they figuratively BATHE in the observation that tax cuts disproportionately benefit the people who pay the most in taxes, and provide no benefit at all to those who generally pay no income taxes. "Tax cuts for the RICH!"

Evil? Stupid? You decide.

Increasing or decreasing tax rates has a negligible impact on revenues.

Populists and propagandists will tell you cutting taxes increases revenues. That's a lie of omission. Raising taxes also increases revenues. Just look at the tax hikes Obama implemented. Revenues went up.

The biggest impact on revenues, by far, is the economy.

Also, anyone who bleevs anything out of the mouth of Donald Trump is the world's biggest fool, especially when it comes to spending. This the guy who added $8 trillion to the debt in half the time it took Obama.

And the House just passed a budget which will add $4 trillion to the debt.

The MAGA voters are willfully blind.

We have the wealthiest Cabinet in US history, so it is to be expected their first targets are the poor.

It just like when a corporation lays off their labor force at Christmas to make their stockholders happy.

This is the mindset these oligarchs bring with them to the Trump administration.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Liberals tend to ignore the basic truth that most of the income earned by the top 1% is from investments, and the reality is that when you raise tax rates you are actually increasing the taxes on investments and that means the rich guys will reduce their exposure to those higher tax rates by investing their money in non-taxable things. And that means fewer business startups and expansions; when investors look at a specific business venture they do a cost vs benefit analysis, and when the costs go up (taxes) then there's an increased chance that the analysis does not favor the business venture. And that means fewer jobs created.

The TCJA expires at the end of this year. If it dies then taxes will go up for most taxpayers, not just the rich. And that will hurt the economy big time. And next year is a mid-term election year. I'm sure the democrats will insist on letting the tax cuts for the top 1% expire but extend the law for the rest of us. The GOP will insist that all tax rates be extended. We'll see how it goes.

The middle class taxes are going up if the law is not changed.

The richies are not.

They have to be balanced better.

 

[JohnDB]

Increasing or decreasing tax rates has a negligible impact on revenues.

Populists and propagandists will tell you cutting taxes increases revenues. That's a lie of omission. Raising taxes also increases revenues. Just look at the tax hikes Obama implemented. Revenues went up.

The biggest impact on revenues, by far, is the economy.

Also, anyone who bleevs anything out of the mouth of Donald Trump is the world's biggest fool, especially when it comes to spending. This the guy who added $8 trillion to the debt in half the time it took Obama.

And the House just passed a budget which will add $4 trillion to the debt.

The MAGA voters are willfully blind.

We have the wealthiest Cabinet in US history, so it is to be expected their first targets are the poor.

It just like when a corporation lays off their labor force at Christmas to make their stockholders happy.

This is the mindset these oligarchs bring with them to the Trump administration.

Taxes on SS retirement. On overtime wages....and on gratuities are not tax cuts for wealthy people....those taxes are on low to middle class people like me.

So what you are saying is misinformation.

Truthfully, small businesses pay a huge portion of taxes by comparison of what they do for the economy.
Income taxes are next and corporations pay the least.
Also now we have tariffs. Tariffs once paid the totality of all tax revenues in America for our government that they needed....there wasn't any income tax.

Get a clue here.
But with the advent of welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security we need income taxes that were installed initially to fund the military during a world War.

 

[d0gbreath]

With the national debt at 37 trillion, balancing the budget only means that that number won't increase for a period of time.

 

[JohnDB]

With the national debt at 37 trillion, balancing the budget only means that that number won't increase for a period of time.

That's correct....and a very good thing!

If that happens we are talking about a soaring economy happening.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

No, it does not, JohnDB.

 

[JohnDB]

No, it does not, JohnDB.

The last time it was balanced was under Clinton....aside from Lewinsky scandals it wasn't a bad economy.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

I remember my Dad saying the late 1990s was so much better than the 1980s.

 

[dudmuck]

Liberals tend to ignore the basic truth that most of the income earned by the top 1% is from investments, and the reality is that when you raise tax rates you are actually increasing the taxes on investments and that means the rich guys will reduce their exposure to those higher tax rates by investing their money in non-taxable things. And that means fewer business startups and expansions; when investors look at a specific business venture they do a cost vs benefit analysis, and when the costs go up (taxes) then there's an increased chance that the analysis does not favor the business venture. And that means fewer jobs created.

The TCJA expires at the end of this year. If it dies then taxes will go up for most taxpayers, not just the rich. And that will hurt the economy big time. And next year is a mid-term election year. I'm sure the democrats will insist on letting the tax cuts for the top 1% expire but extend the law for the rest of us. The GOP will insist that all tax rates be extended. We'll see how it goes.