'Evil little thing' or defender of the constitution?

[Ernie S.]

Madison would call you an idiot

Madison would slap you sillier.

 

[bodecea]

Madison clearly said he that that is WHAT he intended to be in the constitution

He wanted a Separation of Government and Organized Churches, he did not want a Nation where the meer Mention of god Was illegal. The Founders desire for Separation was Targeted at keeping Organized Churches from Playing a Roll, or A State Church being Established. They clearly saw nothing wrong with Religious Symbols, and Prayers in Public Places as their world, including Federal Property was FULL OF THEM!!

Oh, where has that happened?

 

[Truthmatters]

Biography | James Madison - James Madison's Montpelier... Restore Montpelier, Rediscover Madison


Despite his accomplishments, Madison is perhaps the least known of the nation's Founding Fathers — although his contemporaries had a deep appreciation of his abilities and his contributions. At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, one fellow delegate praised Madison as possessing both the intellectual depth of a scholar and the practical wisdom of a politician, and observed that he was involved in the "management" of every major issue. His peers hailed him as the "Father of the Constitution," and scholars agree that no one had a greater role in shaping American Constitutional theory and in framing the particulars of representative government than James Madison. James Madison's great investigation into the principles and ideas of government occurred at his beloved Montpelier, where he read, thought, and conceived of the foundation of democracy upon which our country still stands.

 

[bodecea]

He wanted a Separation of Government and Organized Churches, he did not want a Nation where the meer Mention of god Was illegal. The Founders desire for Separation was Targeted at keeping Organized Churches from Playing a Roll, or A State Church being Established. They clearly saw nothing wrong with Religious Symbols, and Prayers in Public Places as their world, including Federal Property was FULL OF THEM!!

this does not make it illegal you fool.

It keeps it out of government.

public schools are government

I simply do not believe a non denominational Prayer in a public School Violates the Constitution TM. It does in effect make it illegal to display a Prayer in a Public School.

I again point to the fact the for Generations in this country there was Prayer in school, and Religious Symbols all over our Federal Institutions. So your argument that our Founders intended a Nation with no Religions Symbols or Religious Speech allowed on any Public Property is simply not true.

Liberals in Recent times have taken the Interpretation of the Separation and Non Establishment Clauses to an Extreme, and in Many Cases actually Violate the Vast Majorities Right to Free Expression of Religion in the Name of not offended a Minority.

You can not claim what Liberals want today, Is what the Founders Intended, because it is not what the Founders did in Practice, nor anyone, For over 200 years before Progressives Decided To Push the Interpretation to the extreme.

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

James Madison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

James Madison, Jr. (March 16, 1751 (O.S. March 5) – June 28, 1836) was an American statesman and political theorist. He was the fourth President of the United States (1809–1817) and is hailed as the “Father of the Constitution” for being instrumental in the drafting of the United States Constitution and as the key champion and author of the United States Bill of Rights.[1] He inherited tobacco land and owned slaves although he spent his entire adult life as a career politician.

ZOMG.!.!

He inherited wealth, and suppressed the rights of other human beings?

And you are using him as a source?

Bad, wicked, evil Truthmatters. You should be stoned as a heretic.

 

[bodecea]

Show me where the Constitution actually uses the words "separation of church and state". The dirty little secret is that an FDR appointed justice who was a former KKK member and hated and feared Papists wrote the majority opinion that outlines the modern version of "SCS". The 1st Amendment was intended to take government out of religion not regulate Christian beliefs.

Wait....you mean Thomas Jefferson did NOT coin the phrase "separation of church and state" when referring to the 'free exercise of religion' clause of the 1st Amendment in his Danbury Baptist letter back over 100 years before FDR?

 

[rightwinger]

Madison would call you an idiot

Madison would slap you sillier.

Madison was 5 ft tall and couldn't beat up a woman

 

[bodecea]

If they want to keep their Christian prayer at a secular public school...fine...as long as prayers from all the world religions are given equal wall space.

No problem. Tell that to the schools that ban Christian prayer but promote islam, like the California school system.

How odd, my child goes to CA schools and I keep myself well informed as to the curriculum. Could you point out where the CA schools BAN Christian prayer but promote Islam? I'd really like to find out what I've been missing.

 

[bodecea]

Still waiting.....I hope this doesn't take days...........................

 

[peach174]

Wikipedia is an open source encyclopedia which anyone with an account can edit. This lets the website grow exponentially and gives users the opportunity to express their knowledge of a particular topic. The
downside is that sometimes people abuse the system and add erroneous listings.
Hailed as the Father of the Constitution is not true.

What I stated about James Madison, comes from the records, that is in the library of Congress written by their own handwriting and is taught and written in most of our history books.

 

[peach174]

this does not make it illegal you fool.

It keeps it out of government.

public schools are government

I simply do not believe a non denominational Prayer in a public School Violates the Constitution TM. It does in effect make it illegal to display a Prayer in a Public School.

I again point to the fact the for Generations in this country there was Prayer in school, and Religious Symbols all over our Federal Institutions. So your argument that our Founders intended a Nation with no Religions Symbols or Religious Speech allowed on any Public Property is simply not true.

Liberals in Recent times have taken the Interpretation of the Separation and Non Establishment Clauses to an Extreme, and in Many Cases actually Violate the Vast Majorities Right to Free Expression of Religion in the Name of not offended a Minority.

You can not claim what Liberals want today, Is what the Founders Intended, because it is not what the Founders did in Practice, nor anyone, For over 200 years before Progressives Decided To Push the Interpretation to the extreme.

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

 

[Ernie S.]

James Madison's Veto Messages by Gene Garman

Madison knows more about the constitution than any of you

Tell us exactly where in your cited quote Madison said anything about taking down prayers from the walls of schools. When you can do that, you have an argument. You cannot take a few words from Madison and use them to promote your agenda. You must look at 18th and early 19th century practice as a whole and not cherry pick a quote you think supports your minority position.

 

[rightwinger]

James Madison's Veto Messages by Gene Garman

Madison knows more about the constitution than any of you

Tell us exactly where in your cited quote Madison said anything about taking down prayers from the walls of schools. When you can do that, you have an argument. You cannot take a few words from Madison and use them to promote your agenda. You must look at 18th and early 19th century practice as a whole and not cherry pick a quote you think supports your minority position.

Open prayer has not been allowed in our schools since 1962

 

[Truthmatters]

I simply do not believe a non denominational Prayer in a public School Violates the Constitution TM. It does in effect make it illegal to display a Prayer in a Public School.

I again point to the fact the for Generations in this country there was Prayer in school, and Religious Symbols all over our Federal Institutions. So your argument that our Founders intended a Nation with no Religions Symbols or Religious Speech allowed on any Public Property is simply not true.

Liberals in Recent times have taken the Interpretation of the Separation and Non Establishment Clauses to an Extreme, and in Many Cases actually Violate the Vast Majorities Right to Free Expression of Religion in the Name of not offended a Minority.

You can not claim what Liberals want today, Is what the Founders Intended, because it is not what the Founders did in Practice, nor anyone, For over 200 years before Progressives Decided To Push the Interpretation to the extreme.

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

And many beliefs do not include a god

 

[bodecea]

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

And many beliefs do not include a god

Or a heaven....nor use the term "amen"....but you can see where they are so full of themselves, they don't even acknowledge that people exist that don't use "Heavenly Father" or "Amen".

 

[Ernie S.]

Show me where the Constitution actually uses the words "separation of church and state". The dirty little secret is that an FDR appointed justice who was a former KKK member and hated and feared Papists wrote the majority opinion that outlines the modern version of "SCS". The 1st Amendment was intended to take government out of religion not regulate Christian beliefs.

Wait....you mean Thomas Jefferson did NOT coin the phrase "separation of church and state" when referring to the 'free exercise of religion' clause of the 1st Amendment in his Danbury Baptist letter back over 100 years before FDR?

In a letter. Jefferson was the President, but that did not give his interpretation or his words any special status.
Let's for a moment consider the original intent of Madison and Morris and all the others that crafted the Constitution.
They wanted to make sure that the young government could not force us all to be Baptist or Catholic, or Methodist and at the same time, they didn't want Baptists, Catholics or Methodists to be prohibited from freely practicing their religion.
Even if we take Jefferson's wall of separation as, forgive me, gospel, Doesn't a wall work both ways?
The Constitution guarantees us the right to worship or not worship as we choose. For this young lady to force the removal of a prayer so she won't be "offended" by religion, violates the rights of the many who take comfort in prayer. She is, in effect, prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

 

[Listening]

I simply do not believe a non denominational Prayer in a public School Violates the Constitution TM. It does in effect make it illegal to display a Prayer in a Public School.

I again point to the fact the for Generations in this country there was Prayer in school, and Religious Symbols all over our Federal Institutions. So your argument that our Founders intended a Nation with no Religions Symbols or Religious Speech allowed on any Public Property is simply not true.

Liberals in Recent times have taken the Interpretation of the Separation and Non Establishment Clauses to an Extreme, and in Many Cases actually Violate the Vast Majorities Right to Free Expression of Religion in the Name of not offended a Minority.

You can not claim what Liberals want today, Is what the Founders Intended, because it is not what the Founders did in Practice, nor anyone, For over 200 years before Progressives Decided To Push the Interpretation to the extreme.

TruthDoesntMatter is an idiot and not worth your time.

It has already been pointed out that states had state funded and supported religions under the United States Consititution until the 1830's. These were never challenged.

Jeffersons own frustration with religion and state was that in 1800 he was being roasted at the pulpit by the Congregationalists in the north. There was nothing illegal about it.

The USC was intended for our federal government. It was never intended to be incorporated into the states.

TDM keeps quoting Madison who was only interested in the Federal Government being limited and not being allowed to screw with your nativity scene if your state and city wanted one at City Hall (but because the ACLU can't find 3 wise men or a virgin in their ranks...they get upset).

TDM seems to forget the 10th amendment which grants wide and sweeping power to the states.

Arguing with it is useless. It lost its brain function a long time ago.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

And many beliefs do not include a god

And many beliefs do not include a Democrat, either.

 

[Listening]

Wait....you mean Thomas Jefferson did NOT coin the phrase "separation of church and state" when referring to the 'free exercise of religion' clause of the 1st Amendment in his Danbury Baptist letter back over 100 years before FDR?

He wrote a letter. Big deal.

He said it wasn't his place as President to delcare days of public fasting and prayer (something Madison would later do, then regret).

As I understand it, Jefferson had no problem doing it as govenor of VA.

If that is true, what does that tell you ?

 

[Ernie S.]

James Madison's Veto Messages by Gene Garman

Madison knows more about the constitution than any of you

Tell us exactly where in your cited quote Madison said anything about taking down prayers from the walls of schools. When you can do that, you have an argument. You cannot take a few words from Madison and use them to promote your agenda. You must look at 18th and early 19th century practice as a whole and not cherry pick a quote you think supports your minority position.

Open prayer has not been allowed in our schools since 1962

I'm familiar with the ban. I hold that the SCOTUS got it wrong.