'Evil little thing' or defender of the constitution?

[Ernie S.]

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

And many beliefs do not include a god

Feel free to substitute "Poppa obama"

 

[bodecea]

James Madison's Veto Messages by Gene Garman

Madison knows more about the constitution than any of you

Tell us exactly where in your cited quote Madison said anything about taking down prayers from the walls of schools. When you can do that, you have an argument. You cannot take a few words from Madison and use them to promote your agenda. You must look at 18th and early 19th century practice as a whole and not cherry pick a quote you think supports your minority position.

Open prayer has not been allowed in our schools since 1962

Not quite true....school led organized prayer has not been allowed.

 

[bodecea]

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

And many beliefs do not include a god

Feel free to substitute "Poppa obama"

Why?

 

[bodecea]

Wait....you mean Thomas Jefferson did NOT coin the phrase "separation of church and state" when referring to the 'free exercise of religion' clause of the 1st Amendment in his Danbury Baptist letter back over 100 years before FDR?

He wrote a letter. Big deal.

He said it wasn't his place as President to delcare days of public fasting and prayer (something Madison would later do, then regret).

As I understand it, Jefferson had no problem doing it as govenor of VA.

If that is true, what does that tell you ?

You are not aware of the Virginia Statute on Religious Freedom....written by a certain T. Jefferson, are you?

 

[Ernie S.]

Tell us exactly where in your cited quote Madison said anything about taking down prayers from the walls of schools. When you can do that, you have an argument. You cannot take a few words from Madison and use them to promote your agenda. You must look at 18th and early 19th century practice as a whole and not cherry pick a quote you think supports your minority position.

Open prayer has not been allowed in our schools since 1962

Not quite true....school led organized prayer has not been allowed.

Thanks for the clarification. You are absolutely right.

 

[bodecea]

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

And many beliefs do not include a god

And many beliefs do not include a Democrat, either.

That is correct.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I simply do not believe a non denominational Prayer in a public School Violates the Constitution TM. It does in effect make it illegal to display a Prayer in a Public School.

I again point to the fact the for Generations in this country there was Prayer in school, and Religious Symbols all over our Federal Institutions. So your argument that our Founders intended a Nation with no Religions Symbols or Religious Speech allowed on any Public Property is simply not true.

Liberals in Recent times have taken the Interpretation of the Separation and Non Establishment Clauses to an Extreme, and in Many Cases actually Violate the Vast Majorities Right to Free Expression of Religion in the Name of not offended a Minority.

You can not claim what Liberals want today, Is what the Founders Intended, because it is not what the Founders did in Practice, nor anyone, For over 200 years before Progressives Decided To Push the Interpretation to the extreme.

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

When was the last time you heard a Jewish person start a prayer with "Heavenly Father"?

How about a Buddhist? Or a (gasp) Muslim?

 

[Ernie S.]

And many beliefs do not include a god

Feel free to substitute "Poppa obama"

Why?

She appears to consider him Godlike. Who am I to violate her freedom to worship as she so chooses?

 

[bodecea]

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

When was the last time you heard a Jewish person start a prayer with "Heavenly Father"?

How about a Buddhist? Or a (gasp) Muslim?

Well....well....well....THEY SHOULD!

 

[bodecea]

Feel free to substitute "Poppa obama"

Why?

She appears to consider him Godlike. Who am I to violate her freedom to worship as she so chooses?

Who does?

 

[peach174]

The beginning and the end of the prayer as shown in the photo was NOT non-denominational.

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

And many beliefs do not include a god

It does not say God, it says Heavenly Father

 

[bodecea]

Yes it is.
Heavenly Father is for all denominations and so is Amen

nondenominational -
not of or related to any religious denominations

And many beliefs do not include a god

It does not say God, it says Heavenly Father

Well then.....many beliefs do not include a Heavenly Father....a heaven....or one "father" either. Are we to just say they don't count?

 

[Ernie S.]

Why?

She appears to consider him Godlike. Who am I to violate her freedom to worship as she so chooses?

Who does?

Please try to keep up. Who did I quote?

 

[bodecea]

She appears to consider him Godlike. Who am I to violate her freedom to worship as she so chooses?

Who does?

Please try to keep up. Who did I quote?

Saying it is so much more direct and clear that some quote. Who does?

 

[rightwinger]

Tell us exactly where in your cited quote Madison said anything about taking down prayers from the walls of schools. When you can do that, you have an argument. You cannot take a few words from Madison and use them to promote your agenda. You must look at 18th and early 19th century practice as a whole and not cherry pick a quote you think supports your minority position.

Open prayer has not been allowed in our schools since 1962

I'm familiar with the ban. I hold that the SCOTUS got it wrong.

It has held for 50 years and was one of the Supreme Courts finest decisions

 

[Ernie S.]

Who does?

Please try to keep up. Who did I quote?

Saying it is so much more direct and clear that some quote. Who does?

Refer to post #182 this thread. Are you really unable to click a few links and get back to the post where I answered TDM?

 

[Ernie S.]

Open prayer has not been allowed in our schools since 1962

I'm familiar with the ban. I hold that the SCOTUS got it wrong.

It has held for 50 years and was one of the Supreme Courts finest decisions

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm familiar with the ban. I hold that the SCOTUS got it wrong.

It has held for 50 years and was one of the Supreme Courts finest decisions

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

Would you want your Childs atheist teacher to tell him that there is no God?
Would you want a Jewish teacher teaching there was no Jesus?

Prior to the Supreme Court decision...they could

 

[Ernie S.]

It has held for 50 years and was one of the Supreme Courts finest decisions

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

Would you want your Childs atheist teacher to tell him that there is no God?
Would you want a Jewish teacher teaching there was no Jesus?

Prior to the Supreme Court decision...they could

Teaching that? No. But offering it as a possibility? Why not? I have no problem with opinions that vary from my own, as long as they're presented as opinions and the opinions of others aren't stifled.

 

[Listening]

Wait....you mean Thomas Jefferson did NOT coin the phrase "separation of church and state" when referring to the 'free exercise of religion' clause of the 1st Amendment in his Danbury Baptist letter back over 100 years before FDR?

He wrote a letter. Big deal.

He said it wasn't his place as President to delcare days of public fasting and prayer (something Madison would later do, then regret).

As I understand it, Jefferson had no problem doing it as govenor of VA.

If that is true, what does that tell you ?

You are not aware of the Virginia Statute on Religious Freedom....written by a certain T. Jefferson, are you?

I am as I am aware of signing a proclamation for a day of Thanksgiving and Prayer.

Jefferson was a states powers man through and through.

If he really thought the constitution prohibited what TruthDoesn'tKnowSquatMatters says it does, he would not have written this bill, now would he ?

Nor would Madison have written his famous Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assesments.

And if Patrick Henry believed that the U.S.C. prohibited the states from doing things like this, why would he advocate for a tax on people to support a plural establishment.

Clearly the states saw this as being within their realm and not the Federal Governments.