Evidence for Design #1 - Complexity, irreducible and otherwise

[ding]

We're still unsure exactly what the universe was created from so in that regard they were just as ignorant as we are today. Believing man was a product of that creation is hardly a major intellectual leap. Especially since they had no clue how man came to be.

Nearly equal amounts of matter and anti-matter. How else do you suppose the CMB got there?

Don't tell me show me. While you're at it, tell me why you think the creator of the universe is the God of the Bible. Or do you suffer from the Dunning effect yourself?

dunning effect: people of low intelligence underestimate the intelligence of others and over estimate the intelligence of themselves. People of high intelligence underestimate their intelligence and over estimate the intelligence of others.

I have no need or desire to convince anyone who God is. I couldn't care less. Which is bad news for you because that's the conversation you want to have because that is the source of your bias.

 

[alang1216]

I have no need or desire to convince anyone who God is. I couldn't care less. Which is bad news for you because that's the conversation you want to have because that is the source of your bias.

That's funny, you have said my perception of God is wrong yet you have yet to say what the proper view of the God of the Bible should be.

 

[ding]

That's funny, you have said my perception of God is wrong yet you have yet to say what the proper view of the God of the Bible should be.

Why would I need to use the God of the Bible to answer the question of was the universe intentionally created or not?

 

[alang1216]

Why would I need to use the God of the Bible to answer the question of was the universe intentionally created or not?

So it is my perception of the creator of the universe that is wrong? What should it be?

 

[ding]

So it is my perception of the creator of the universe that is wrong? What should it be?

Anything that allows you to set aside your bias and be objective in analyzing the evolution of space and time. I actually put together a statement of requirements which ultimately led to my selecting consciousness without form as my perception of God.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The entire theory of evolution is a thorough debunk of this religious nutter nonsense.

So enjoy the debate you nutters lost 160 years ago.

 

[ding]

He mad.

 

[alang1216]

Anything that allows you to set aside your bias and be objective in analyzing the evolution of space and time. I actually put together a statement of requirements which ultimately led to my selecting consciousness without form as my perception of God.

So what are the attributes of this "consciousness without form"? What does it mean to us today?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So what are the attributes of this "consciousness without form"? What does it mean to us today?

It doesn't mean anything, by design. It cannot be evidenced or refuted, by design. Same old snake oil salesman crap, new millenium.

 

[ding]

So what are the attributes of this "consciousness without form"? What does it mean to us today?

That's for you to decide. You are the one with the bias to overcome. If I told you what I thought they were, you'd just argue with me about it and your bias would remain. If you make an honest effort I'm sure you could put together a pretty good list.

As for what it means to us in our everyday lives, you will only know that once you experience it. Again, I could tell you but it wouldn't mean anything to you.

What exactly is your objective with this discussion? What are you hoping to get out of it?

 

[ding]

It doesn't mean anything, by design. It cannot be evidenced or refuted, by design. Same old snake oil salesman crap, new millenium.

That's the ticket. Who wouldn't want to be more like you?

 

[alang1216]

It doesn't mean anything, by design. It cannot be evidenced or refuted, by design. Same old snake oil salesman crap, new millenium.

ding spent a good bit of energy coming up with it, whatever it is, so I'm curious what he thinks it means. He has yet to connect his "consciousness without form" with the God of the Bible and I'm looking forward to the hoops he'll have to jump through should he attempt it.

 

[alang1216]

That's for you to decide. You are the one with the bias to overcome. If I told you what I thought they were, you'd just argue with me about it and your bias would remain. If you make an honest effort I'm sure you could put together a pretty good list.

And you don't have any biases to overcome? Funny that. You call me biased and guilty of Dunning but I think those fit you to a tee. Here is what I think, you have convinced yourself you've done this great intellectual exercise and have come up with a secret of the universe. You haven't convinced me, have you convinced anyone else?

As for what it means to us in our everyday lives, you will only know that once you experience it. Again, I could tell you but it wouldn't mean anything to you.

In other words I have to believe it before I'll understand it. I've heard that before and don't buy it.

What exactly is your objective with this discussion? What are you hoping to get out of it?

Like everything I do in my life, I want to enjoy myself. I'm competitive and enjoy sports and games and matching wits with others (I may not agree with you but you're obviously not an illiterate moron).

 

[ding]

ding spent a good bit of energy coming up with it, whatever it is, so I'm curious what he thinks it means. He has yet to connect his "consciousness without form" with the God of the Bible and I'm looking forward to the hoops he'll have to jump through should he attempt it.

I have never intended to connect the two. Why would I? This is a discussion about the existence of God. This is not a discussion about which faith best represents who God is and what God expects from us.

 

[ding]

And you don't have any biases to overcome? Funny that. You call me biased and guilty of Dunning but I think those fit you to a tee. Here is what I think, you have convinced yourself you've done this great intellectual exercise and have come up with a secret of the universe. You haven't convinced me, have you convinced anyone else?

What makes you think I wasn't an atheist before?

I only invoke dunning when I see someone saying others are stupid and acting like they think they are smarter than them. Which is exactly how you treated ancient man who composed the best selling book of all time.

I don't think there is anything special about me or that I have done anything that anyone else couldn't do if they set their minds to it and were objective.

I'm not trying to convince you. I could not care less about convincing you or anyone else. I am participating in the conflict and confusion process which is how objective truth is arrived at.

In other words I have to believe it before I'll understand it. I've heard that before and don't buy it.

No. You have to experience it to believe it because the only person who can change your mind is you.

Like everything I do in my life, I want to enjoy myself. I'm competitive and enjoy sports and games and matching wits with others (I may not agree with you but you're obviously not an illiterate moron).

 

[alang1216]

I only invoke dunning when I see someone saying others are stupid and acting like they think they are smarter than them. Which is exactly how you treated ancient man who composed the best selling book of all time.

I had said you were not illiterate but now I'm not so sure. If you care to look back you'll see I called them ignorant and superstitious. Did they know why it rained or why some stars moved and some didn't? Ignorance. Did they attribute much of what they saw around them to supernatural forces? Superstition. I never claimed to be even as smart as they were, just at the end of 2,000 years of added knowledge.

I don't think there is anything special about me or that I have done anything that anyone else couldn't do if they set their minds to it and were objective.

Not more special than anyone else who was as focused and objective as you. How many people do you know that match that criteria?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Evolution debunked intelligent design.

 

[alang1216]

I have never intended to connect the two. Why would I? This is a discussion about the existence of God. This is not a discussion about which faith best represents who God is and what God expects from us.

Why do you write "God" with a capital 'G'?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Why do you write "God" with a capital 'G'?

Probably just autocorrect.

 

[ding]

Why do you write "God" with a capital 'G'?

Why shouldn't I?