Economy on the Mend?

[JakeStarkey]

And Jillian drains the shot, and her side wins by forty-four points.

You have a done a super job today putting down the conheads.

 

[Toro]

If you looked only at what Greenspan said then I agree you'd think he was a supporter of the free market. However, a free market Fed chairman is an oxymoron. The Federal Reserve exists to subvert the free market so it makes no sense.

Bernanke has interest rates at 0 percent, whereas Greenspan had them at 1 percent. That's about the only difference between them. They're both following the same policy of trying to "stimulate" the economy into recovery, which of course only sets us up for a bigger bust down the road if it's even successful at all.

That is a couple years down the road but it is coming. They can't provide big enough band aids to cover the wounds caused by what they have been growing for the last forty years.

If they succeed in reflating the bubble, or creating another bubble, the bust will come sooner and will be far worse than the housing bust.

I do think that we are repeating the same mistakes we have made during this decade, which means that there is a bubble coming somewhere.

It may be bigger than the housing bust, though that his hard to see. The mechanisms which financed and facilitated the growth of the housing bubble - i.e. the shadow banking system - have been absolutely destroyed. So even though there is an enormous amount of liquidity in the system, it must find a way into the financial system first before it can cause a bubble. I am betting it will, but by how much, I don't know.

BTW, the only asset I know of that is near its all-time high is gold. I have been slowly buying options on gold. A break above $975-$1000 could be significant.

 

[elvis]

That is a couple years down the road but it is coming. They can't provide big enough band aids to cover the wounds caused by what they have been growing for the last forty years.

If they succeed in reflating the bubble, or creating another bubble, the bust will come sooner and will be far worse than the housing bust.

I do think that we are repeating the same mistakes we have made during this decade, which means that there is a bubble coming somewhere.

It may be bigger than the housing bust, though that his hard to see. The mechanisms which financed and facilitated the growth of the housing bubble - i.e. the shadow banking system - have been absolutely destroyed. So even though there is an enormous amount of liquidity in the system, it must find a way into the financial system first before it can cause a bubble. I am betting it will, but by how much, I don't know.

BTW, the only asset I know of that is near its all-time high is gold. I have been slowly buying options on gold. A break above $975-$1000 could be significant.

how long does it take for the bubble to grow and burst?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If they succeed in reflating the bubble, or creating another bubble, the bust will come sooner and will be far worse than the housing bust.

I do think that we are repeating the same mistakes we have made during this decade, which means that there is a bubble coming somewhere.

It may be bigger than the housing bust, though that his hard to see. The mechanisms which financed and facilitated the growth of the housing bubble - i.e. the shadow banking system - have been absolutely destroyed. So even though there is an enormous amount of liquidity in the system, it must find a way into the financial system first before it can cause a bubble. I am betting it will, but by how much, I don't know.

BTW, the only asset I know of that is near its all-time high is gold. I have been slowly buying options on gold. A break above $975-$1000 could be significant.

how long does it take for the bubble to grow and burst?

The next bubble will likely take less time to form and bust than the housing bubble did after the tech bust.

 

[Toro]

If they succeed in reflating the bubble, or creating another bubble, the bust will come sooner and will be far worse than the housing bust.

I do think that we are repeating the same mistakes we have made during this decade, which means that there is a bubble coming somewhere.

It may be bigger than the housing bust, though that his hard to see. The mechanisms which financed and facilitated the growth of the housing bubble - i.e. the shadow banking system - have been absolutely destroyed. So even though there is an enormous amount of liquidity in the system, it must find a way into the financial system first before it can cause a bubble. I am betting it will, but by how much, I don't know.

BTW, the only asset I know of that is near its all-time high is gold. I have been slowly buying options on gold. A break above $975-$1000 could be significant.

how long does it take for the bubble to grow and burst?

I have no idea.

What I have learned, though, is that these things can go much farther for much longer than one could imagine.

 

[Polk]

Wishing the economy was better is not really making it better. Unemployment is still happening, income is stagnate and Housing is still being sold to people that can not afford to pay for it long term. Last I heard Building business is on the verge of collapse, as in none home construction. Banks are still in trouble as well.

Go ahead tell us how when hundreds of thousands lose their job each month unemployment goes down.

Changes in technology are going to result in unemployment lagging output growth (this has been true for most recent recessions). Income is stagnate, but that's been the case for several decades now. So, those parts of your argument are rather weak.

 

[eagleseven]

And McCain admitted he didn't "know much about economics"....and the people he surrounded himself with were the same people who got us here.

Obama chose Timothy Geitner to be his Secretary of the Treasury.

Now, Mr. Timothy Geitner, the man who could not understand TurboTax, is gambling with our collective future. One major mistake now will shatter us in the next 2-5 years.

I rest my case.

So for me it's about "how do we fix Bush's mess?"

If you are Obama, by repeating Bush's economic policies, particularly stimulus and increasing the national debt.

Hey, 8 years of deficit spending brought us to this point, what's five or ten trillion more?

What a beautiful chart! I love going into debt, especially to help poor people.

 

[eagleseven]

Also, calling Alan Greenspan a Libertarian is akin to calling Heinrich Himmler a Zionist. It's preposterous!

Alan Greenspan believed he could single-handedly fix the markets using the Fed (much like Bernanke/Geitner), and failed miserably. This is a wonderful lesson for would-be kings, a lesson Obama will never learn...

 

[editec]

Talking about the national economy, while technically important and correct, can also be quite mistleading.

WE don't have one economy.

We have many economies depending on where we live within this nation and what class we personally belong to.

One of the myths that people believe is this

"A rising tide lifts all boats" meaning a recovering or falling economy effects all of us.

No, our economy doesn't remotely act on people like the tide acts upon boats in a body of water.

The tide lifts or drops all boats EQUALLY.

The changing national economy effects different people in very VERY different ways.

Speaking of the national economy as though it was OUR economy is one of the ways one can MISLEAD THE PEOPLE without telling an untruth.

 

[code1211]

Just imagine if McCain were President. With unemployment nearing 10 percent and the stock market going up you would be calling for his head.

"McCain only cares about Corporate America and wars in the the Middle East while ignoring the plight of Americas poor!".

I was actually trying to be non-partisan about this thread because it's a subject that I think is too important to be like that with...

but since you asked...

if McCain were president (perish the thought)....I don't believe he'd be doing the things needed to make the economy better. I think he would be talking about the same ole same ole that got us here.
Now...if McCain had picked Romney instead of trying to suck up to the right with Sarah..... might have been a whole other story.

So for me it's about "how do we fix Bush's mess?"

And McCain admitted he didn't "know much about economics"....and the people he surrounded himself with were the same people who got us here.

Specifically, what has the Obama Administration done economically that is in contrast to what the Bush Administration did?

There is that whole package of paybacks, bribes and graft that won't be spent until the Mid-Term elections are being campaigned, but since that is doing nothing to help right now, what can you name?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Also, calling Alan Greenspan a Libertarian is akin to calling Heinrich Himmler a Zionist. It's preposterous!

Alan Greenspan believed he could single-handedly fix the markets using the Fed (much like Bernanke/Geitner), and failed miserably. This is a wonderful lesson for would-be kings, a lesson Obama will never learn...

Friedman and Greenspan were terrible appointments, as we have all found out.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Just imagine if McCain were President. With unemployment nearing 10 percent and the stock market going up you would be calling for his head.

"McCain only cares about Corporate America and wars in the the Middle East while ignoring the plight of Americas poor!".

I was actually trying to be non-partisan about this thread because it's a subject that I think is too important to be like that with...

The rightwingnuts who want the country to fail must be so upset....

Of course, nothing partisan there.

Shot Blocked.

 

[Paulie]

Yeah jill, you did kind of start right off with partisan potshots in your OP.

That pretty much made the difference between you getting your licks in, or you merely opening up a basic economic conversation.

It's obviously going to rile up the right leaning posters who read it. Why bother?

 

[eagleseven]

Also, calling Alan Greenspan a Libertarian is akin to calling Heinrich Himmler a Zionist. It's preposterous!

Alan Greenspan believed he could single-handedly fix the markets using the Fed (much like Bernanke/Geitner), and failed miserably. This is a wonderful lesson for would-be kings, a lesson Obama will never learn...

Friedman and Greenspan were terrible appointments, as we have all found out.

Milton Friedman never held any political appointments. He was merely a Nobel Prize winning Economist at the University of Chicago, and never made it to Washington. Friedman did, however, have considerable influence upon the governments of Hong Kong, Iceland, Chile, and Estonia.

Greenspan let power go to his head.

 

[jillian]

Yeah jill, you did kind of start right off with partisan potshots in your OP.

That pretty much made the difference between you getting your licks in, or you merely opening up a basic economic conversation.

It's obviously going to rile up the right leaning posters who read it. Why bother?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.... I did take a shot at rightwingnuts who want the country to fail.

I don't consider them the same as "conservatives" or "all republicans".

I figure most of us don't want failure.

As for the basic enconomic subject, I was genuinely interested in what my economics people thought we should do next to keep the fledgling recovery going.

fair 'nuff?

 

[jillian]

Of course, nothing partisan there.

Shot Blocked.

see my response to Paulie....

and it was only partisan IF you're a rightwingnut who wants the country to fail.

 

[eagleseven]

Of course, nothing partisan there.

Shot Blocked.

see my response to Paulie....

and it was only partisan IF you're a rightwingnut who wants the country to fail.

It implied that rightwingnuts generally want the country to fail...otherwise, you would've written "people who want the country to fail."

 

[jillian]

It implied that rightwingnuts generally want the country to fail...otherwise, you would've written "people who want the country to fail."

nah... the leftwingnuts want other things... but not economic failure. ;o)

 

[Maple]

Thanks for that. I was hoping you'd comment on this since you're my resident economic expert....

I know we certainly have a long way to go. But it seems, to me at least, that the steps we've taken stopped the bleeding.

What else, if anything, do you think should be done to bolster the fledgling recover.

Rescind the no-stimulus stimulus bill and reduce taxes across the board, reduce taxes on small and large business, the job creators, kill the cap and trade bill along with HR 3200. Put congress on a crash diet for a balanced budget to promote long term growth in the economy.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Of course, nothing partisan there.

Shot Blocked.

see my response to Paulie....

and it was only partisan IF you're a rightwingnut who wants the country to fail.

Ah, so in "Jillians World" you can insult anyone you want by putting a little caveat in there huh?
Ok then.
"All Leftwingers hate America and Freedom". But that's only a partisan insult to those Leftwingers who actually hate America and Freedom.

Jillian has unwittingly created a "license to insult" of sorts!