Dow close above 14K!

[Samson]

this administration is 'growing' the economy with money that doesn't exist.
Just think about that for a minute, folks, and maybe you'll get an idea of what is really going on in our nation's capitol.

Well no it's people.

Unless you know something everyone else doesn't.

There wasn't massive movements out of 401ks.

A. No administration (R or D) has grown the economy with money that "exists." The very idea of money that "exists" contradicts the entire concept that is money. Money is just paper or better, plastic: A fact whether Bush or Obama or Romney is president.

B. There were no "movements out of 401k's" because there was no where to go that would offset the penalty.

 

[Sunshine]

this administration is 'growing' the economy with money that doesn't exist.
Just think about that for a minute, folks, and maybe you'll get an idea of what is really going on in our nation's capitol.

Well no it's people.

Unless you know something everyone else doesn't.

There wasn't massive movements out of 401ks.

A. No administration (R or D) has grown the economy with money that "exists." The very idea of money that "exists" contradicts the entire concept that is money. Money is just paper or better, plastic: A fact whether Bush or Obama or Romney is president.

B. There were no "movements out of 401k's" because there was no where to go that would offset the penalty.

Exactly, which is why when I retire in May, I'm doing a direct rollover of mine into an IRA. And I'm not using it unless my existence requires it which it likely won't. It's the only way I can avoid taxes which would be 30% and then get interest rates of 1% or only slightly more. What a tom fool thing to do. I believe withdrawal penalty from your 401K or 403B, etc. is 10% and then you would have to pay the taxes. Same principle. Your money would get eaten alive.

 

[Sunshine]

The other nice thing about this..is it isn't something based on a "bubble". Consumer spending is up. And profits are way up.

The private sector is awash in cash. Has been for almost a decade. And they've been holding back on spending. So much so, that they MUST replace old technology.

What I have discovered in my 65 years is that when the market goes to a 'record high' stocks are overvalued and a lot of people are cruising for a bruising!

this economy is set for a recovery.

Not all stock booms are false.

You are full of more shit than a bark park!

 

[Samson]

Well no it's people.

Unless you know something everyone else doesn't.

There wasn't massive movements out of 401ks.

A. No administration (R or D) has grown the economy with money that "exists." The very idea of money that "exists" contradicts the entire concept that is money. Money is just paper or better, plastic: A fact whether Bush or Obama or Romney is president.

B. There were no "movements out of 401k's" because there was no where to go that would offset the penalty.

Exactly, which is why when I retire in May, I'm doing a direct rollover of mine into an IRA. And I'm not using it unless my existence requires it which it likely won't. It's the only way I can avoid taxes which would be 30% and then get interest rates of 1% or only slightly more. What a tom fool thing to do. I believe withdrawal penalty from your 401K or 403B, etc. is 10% and then you would have to pay the taxes. Same principle. Your money would get eaten alive.

Interestingly this past year I began saving the same way, diverting 401K funding into ROTH IRA: Paying the taxman now so I don't see the devil later.

 

[Sunshine]

A. No administration (R or D) has grown the economy with money that "exists." The very idea of money that "exists" contradicts the entire concept that is money. Money is just paper or better, plastic: A fact whether Bush or Obama or Romney is president.

B. There were no "movements out of 401k's" because there was no where to go that would offset the penalty.

Exactly, which is why when I retire in May, I'm doing a direct rollover of mine into an IRA. And I'm not using it unless my existence requires it which it likely won't. It's the only way I can avoid taxes which would be 30% and then get interest rates of 1% or only slightly more. What a tom fool thing to do. I believe withdrawal penalty from your 401K or 403B, etc. is 10% and then you would have to pay the taxes. Same principle. Your money would get eaten alive.

Interestingly this past year I began saving the same way, diverting 401K funding into ROTH IRA: Paying the taxman now so I don't see the devil later.

The main reason I put in what I do at work is their 'matching' for the first 3%. They match dollar for dollar on the first 2 % and 50c on the dollar for the next 1%. I put in 10%to get keep my income low enough I don't get into the minimum tax headache. There is no place that you can make 100% on your money or even 50% on your money. And we are immediately vested in it. It's a bargain I just can't pass up, but likely my kids will inherit it, and the headache will be theirs not mine. But it's there if I need something. I do see your point of the Roth thing as taxes will only go up.

 

[Trajan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/business/daily-stock-market-activity.html?_r=0

when the Dow hit new highs under Bush ( October 2007), it was the greedy bastards of the 2% getting rich off the backs of the downtrodden with 4.7% unemployment and a Q4 GDP of 2.1%........now? Its celebration time....


your hackage has paced the Dow as well

 

[Dot Com]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/business/daily-stock-market-activity.html?_r=0

when the Dow hit new highs under Bush ( October 2007), it was the greedy bastards of the 2% getting rich off the backs of the downtrodden with 4.7% unemployment and a Q4 GDP of 2.1%........now? Its celebration time....


your hackage has paced the Dow as well

Bush admin oversaw (I use that term loosely) market had to do w/ "exotic" financial instruments

Some, yeah.

But this is a little different. I am not seeing any "exotic" new financial instruments or "brand new shiny" business models leading this market. Like was the case with mortgaged backed securities or dot coms.

Seems to be the tried and true companies are doing well..and people are investing. Still, that doesn't mean stocks aren't overvalued. I for one really liked the Mark to Market rule.

^ that

 

[alextenenbaum]

Funny that the republicans can't congratulate Obama.

 

[Sallow]

Funny that the republicans can't congratulate Obama.

They didn't congratulate Clinton either..

He got impeached.

 

[Sallow]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/business/daily-stock-market-activity.html?_r=0

when the Dow hit new highs under Bush ( October 2007), it was the greedy bastards of the 2% getting rich off the backs of the downtrodden with 4.7% unemployment and a Q4 GDP of 2.1%........now? Its celebration time....


your hackage has paced the Dow as well

2 wars and dropping interest rates to zero will do that...

But never miss an opportunity to call your adversary a name, right Trajan?

 

[Paulie]

Yeah yeah yeah..paper money is the bedrock of the economy.

Gotta love you folks!

It's the only thing that actually makes sense. The banking system was near systemic collapse...the markets were crashed, DOW was 6600...The Fed then begins pumping what was to become upwards of 2 trillion dollars of new money into bank reserves to clear all the bad assets off their balance sheets...and in 3 short years, the markets are either at or close to breaking their previous highs.

How do you not recognize that the banks have been putting those new reserves into the markets and inflating them? They certainly haven't been lending it all out to everyone. They're taking their almost free money (0.2% fed funds rate) and investing it in the markets.

No it doesn't.

Go to a desert Island with a briefcase of paper money and no other way to survive. You'd find out your folly very quickly.

At the base, the economy provides us with the means to survive..and in a orderly fashion.

Our "wealth" is based on things we can dig up from the ground, things we can grow in the ground, things we can manufacture and information.

The paper money is a place holder for all of that.

The sooner you folks realize that..the better.

I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm talking about why the markets are inflated. You're rambling on about paper money for whatever reason.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

The Dow is up because the Fed is pumping cash into securities markets to compensate for the end of the payroll tax break. Not a bad idea, but also not sustainable.

The bourgeoisie have money, quasi professionals and government workers. Not a lot of money to spare in the sixty percent or so of US families with incomes below about $60k/a. And those families are probably not going to have disposable income for another three or four years.

Not Obama's fault for the crash. Fault for that accrues to Reagan, Clinton and Junebug Bush. Obama giving stimulus money to state and local government probably delayed the recovery two or three years FROM NOW.

To sum up: some stock measure is up. Unfortunately measures of stock performance are not directly connected to the US economy any more due to the number of listed firms earning significant profits from indentured and forced labor in foreign hellholes for the benefit of Americans stupid enough to stand in line for electronic toys they pretend are essential work tools.

Wait, what?

Sure they are..

And it's not only the electronic companies showing big profits.

And Obama's "stimulus" didn't delay a recovery..it prevented a collapse.

With great respect for your intent here, opinions differ while facts don't.

The bottom line is that the stock exchanges no longer reflect the US economy because, as I wrote, too much of their profit comes from offshore for their stock to reflect the US economy. My apologies for not clarifying that Foxxconn [Apple, HP, more] was merely an example of that.

Giving a trillion dollars to Wall Street did more to prevent a collapse than pissing money down the drain after filtering it through state and local government. Both were bad policy.

Demand drives economies, not supply. Obama hilariously imitated Reagan's failed supply side bogusness - except he funneled supply through government instead of business or actual humans too poor to save direct subsidies, something even Keynes would have laughed at - and the result is that any real recovery is two or three years out.

What is being called a recovery is that the +/-65% who gained after 2008 are starting to spend again. That folks who weathered the collapse with little damage are at last feeling pretty good about their futures is not the same thing as a recovery; in fact it is a long ways from a recovery.

 

[Trajan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/business/daily-stock-market-activity.html?_r=0

when the Dow hit new highs under Bush ( October 2007), it was the greedy bastards of the 2% getting rich off the backs of the downtrodden with 4.7% unemployment and a Q4 GDP of 2.1%........now? Its celebration time....


your hackage has paced the Dow as well

2 wars and dropping interest rates to zero will do that...

But never miss an opportunity to call your adversary a name, right Trajan?

my point stands, you're just to mch of a hypocrite and media sheep to see it*shrugs* or were you and the press prescient at the time and knew the market was going to explode? if so, why didn't you do anything about it? see how that works?

Oh and you do know Jack Lew ( yup the new sec of treasury) oversaw the (CAI)Alternative Investments unit for Citibank...right? The one that nearly took them down?


question sallow- how much do you think BerBanks interest rate QE extravaganza(s) has to do with this run?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Demand drives economies, not supply.

OMG!!!!demand is always present and sufficient !!! People are born demanding things like air, food, clothing, shelter, water as a necessity of survival. Giving them credit for breathing is a disgustingly low standard that only an deadly uber stupid liberal could imagine.

Life on the planet changed when Republicans invented or supplied a plow to till or bucket to carry water. Those rare geniuses supplied life on this planet and need to be encouraged in every conceivable way.

Consumer demand we can take for granted like the air we breath. Millions of people can look at a field and demand wheat for millions of years (and they did) but the Republican supply-sider who finally came along to make the field supply wheat literally saved milions and millions of lives from starvation and made millions and millions of more lives possible.


Similiarly, every human being had a limitless demand for computer power, but it was not until Gates and Jobs came along with the supply that the demand could be met!!!

Now even a liberal can understand what Republican supply-side economics is.

 

[Sallow]

The Dow is up because the Fed is pumping cash into securities markets to compensate for the end of the payroll tax break. Not a bad idea, but also not sustainable.

The bourgeoisie have money, quasi professionals and government workers. Not a lot of money to spare in the sixty percent or so of US families with incomes below about $60k/a. And those families are probably not going to have disposable income for another three or four years.

Not Obama's fault for the crash. Fault for that accrues to Reagan, Clinton and Junebug Bush. Obama giving stimulus money to state and local government probably delayed the recovery two or three years FROM NOW.

To sum up: some stock measure is up. Unfortunately measures of stock performance are not directly connected to the US economy any more due to the number of listed firms earning significant profits from indentured and forced labor in foreign hellholes for the benefit of Americans stupid enough to stand in line for electronic toys they pretend are essential work tools.

Wait, what?

Sure they are..

And it's not only the electronic companies showing big profits.

And Obama's "stimulus" didn't delay a recovery..it prevented a collapse.

With great respect for your intent here, opinions differ while facts don't.

The bottom line is that the stock exchanges no longer reflect the US economy because, as I wrote, too much of their profit comes from offshore for their stock to reflect the US economy. My apologies for not clarifying that Foxxconn [Apple, HP, more] was merely an example of that.

Giving a trillion dollars to Wall Street did more to prevent a collapse than pissing money down the drain after filtering it through state and local government. Both were bad policy.

Demand drives economies, not supply. Obama hilariously imitated Reagan's failed supply side bogusness - except he funneled supply through government instead of business or actual humans too poor to save direct subsidies, something even Keynes would have laughed at - and the result is that any real recovery is two or three years out.

What is being called a recovery is that the +/-65% who gained after 2008 are starting to spend again. That folks who weathered the collapse with little damage are at last feeling pretty good about their futures is not the same thing as a recovery; in fact it is a long ways from a recovery.

I am going by facts. The stimulus on a state level prevented massive layoffs of state and city workers. It also started a plethora of public works initatives.

And what happened in the market was you had whiz kids making up really dodgy financial instruments to shift money out of the pockets of rubes into their own. It worked really really well..because their issues made it into all levels of the financial industry. There were a few ways to deal with that. First you could of seized all the banks and brokerage houses, conducted massive investigations, toss some very wealthy people in the pokey and have the government run those establishments until they stabilized. Or you could add liquidity to the industry and let nature run it's course. The former solution was not politically feasible and would have put the world economy in a world of hurt for a few years. That's a far different situation then Reagan, who deregulated the whole industry and then had to bail out it when they did something similar.

 

[Sallow]

It's the only thing that actually makes sense. The banking system was near systemic collapse...the markets were crashed, DOW was 6600...The Fed then begins pumping what was to become upwards of 2 trillion dollars of new money into bank reserves to clear all the bad assets off their balance sheets...and in 3 short years, the markets are either at or close to breaking their previous highs.

How do you not recognize that the banks have been putting those new reserves into the markets and inflating them? They certainly haven't been lending it all out to everyone. They're taking their almost free money (0.2% fed funds rate) and investing it in the markets.

No it doesn't.

Go to a desert Island with a briefcase of paper money and no other way to survive. You'd find out your folly very quickly.

At the base, the economy provides us with the means to survive..and in a orderly fashion.

Our "wealth" is based on things we can dig up from the ground, things we can grow in the ground, things we can manufacture and information.

The paper money is a place holder for all of that.

The sooner you folks realize that..the better.

I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm talking about why the markets are inflated. You're rambling on about paper money for whatever reason.

Of course you don't.

Because you figure that "money" is the beginning and end of an economy.

It isn't.

Governments coin it..and set the value.

It's a very artificial construct.

 

[Sallow]

when the Dow hit new highs under Bush ( October 2007), it was the greedy bastards of the 2% getting rich off the backs of the downtrodden with 4.7% unemployment and a Q4 GDP of 2.1%........now? Its celebration time....


your hackage has paced the Dow as well

2 wars and dropping interest rates to zero will do that...

But never miss an opportunity to call your adversary a name, right Trajan?

my point stands, you're just to mch of a hypocrite and media sheep to see it*shrugs* or were you and the press prescient at the time and knew the market was going to explode? if so, why didn't you do anything about it? see how that works?

Oh and you do know Jack Lew ( yup the new sec of treasury) oversaw the (CAI)Alternative Investments unit for Citibank...right? The one that nearly took them down?


question sallow- how much do you think BerBanks interest rate QE extravaganza(s) has to do with this run?

Basically..you have nothing..so you have to cling to insults.

That's fine..from time to time you make a good point.

This isn't one of those times.

Bringing professionals from the financial industry is an outstanding idea, so long as they don't have any direct interest in any action they take. They know the real estate and how it works.

And do I think the QE had anything to do with the DOW? Of course I do. It's ridiculous you even ask that. Congress has been obstructing EVERY effort to get this economy going. QE is/was/will be a viable alternative to politcal inaction.

 

[Sallow]

Demand drives economies, not supply.

OMG!!!!demand is always present and sufficient !!! People are born demanding things like air, food, clothing, shelter, water as a necessity of survival. Giving them credit for breathing is a disgustingly low standard that only an deadly uber stupid liberal could imagine.

Life on the planet changed when Republicans invented or supplied a plow to till or bucket to carry water. Those rare geniuses supplied life on this planet and need to be encouraged in every conceivable way.

Consumer demand we can take for granted like the air we breath. Millions of people can look at a field and demand wheat for millions of years (and they did) but the Republican supply-sider who finally came along to make the field supply wheat literally saved milions and millions of lives from starvation and made millions and millions of more lives possible.


Similiarly, every human being had a limitless demand for computer power, but it was not until Gates and Jobs came along with the supply that the demand could be met!!!

Now even a liberal can understand what Republican supply-side economics is.

Conservatives rarely invent anything.

They do however..know how to profit from other people's work.

Not necessarily a bad thing.

But something that should be kept in check.

 

[Trajan]

2 wars and dropping interest rates to zero will do that...

But never miss an opportunity to call your adversary a name, right Trajan?

my point stands, you're just to mch of a hypocrite and media sheep to see it*shrugs* or were you and the press prescient at the time and knew the market was going to explode? if so, why didn't you do anything about it? see how that works?

Oh and you do know Jack Lew ( yup the new sec of treasury) oversaw the (CAI)Alternative Investments unit for Citibank...right? The one that nearly took them down?


question sallow- how much do you think BerBanks interest rate QE extravaganza(s) has to do with this run?

Basically..you have nothing..so you have to cling to insults.

That's fine..from time to time you make a good point.

This isn't one of those times.

Bringing professionals from the financial industry is an outstanding idea, so long as they don't have any direct interest in any action they take. They know the real estate and how it works.

And do I think the QE had anything to do with the DOW? Of course I do. It's ridiculous you even ask that. Congress has been obstructing EVERY effort to get this economy going. QE is/was/will be a viable alternative to politcal inaction.

uh huh, didn't know Lew was a Citibank refuge did you?

Suspect not, no, I know you didn't... whats new.

So sallow, how many others in the admin. were/are there that had careers at organizations manning positions that had direct or ancillary control of org.s that made or lost money off of 'exotic' investments?

You just needed to create some new benchmark like 'exotic' mechanisms to help you blow smoke in this uber partisan hypocrisy you are trying to defend..... you bring it on yourself.

you know sallow, reading a headline off a newspaper as you walk by a paper stand? thats not informing/educating yourself, know what I mean?

Turn off whatever Ministry of Truth network that programs you, buy a few books, subscribe to several sites right left and middle and read....unless of course you enjoy being a hack.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Conservatives rarely invent anything.

actually they invent everything because they believe in doing so while liberals are anti business and would rather do meaningful libturd work in a soup kitchen or in redistribution or in community organizing or in lawyering or in bureaucracy.


If Gates Jobs Buffett and Ellison had come from libturd homes they never would have thought in terms of going into business!! Common sense. Sorry!!