Don't *Mess* With Texas

[Midnight Marauder]

Can't be soon enough, IMO

If that happened, which it won't -- you would still be welcome in my home. You might need a visa though!

And you'd need a visa to visit Oklahoma, Louisiana and Arizona!

Or any other of the 57 states!

 

[goldcatt]

Again, not a doctrine, just facts.

We built a "more perfect union" exactly like the founders and framers intended. That is one of our founding principles.

It's NOT perfect, nothing is. But it is demonstrably BETTER and yes, SUPERIOR to any other union of mankind anywhere in the world. It IS exceptional.


That's not a "doctrine" and it's not nationalism, it's just the facts. Facts which would be excluded and never taught, were certain parties to get their way.

Which is the way textbooks have historically portrayed the United States, so I fail to see the problem.

I'm not the one who has the problem.

Nope, that would be me.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Which is the way textbooks have historically portrayed the United States, so I fail to see the problem.

I'm not the one who has the problem.

Nope, that would be me.

And your problem is quite legitimate. I don't want kids indoctrinated to be neocons either.

However, we don't discard facts just because of some nutjob idea of political correctness.

 

[goldcatt]

I'm not the one who has the problem.

Nope, that would be me.

And your problem is quite legitimate. I don't want kids indoctrinated to be neocons either.

However, we don't discard facts just because of some nutjob idea of political correctness.

I fail to see how teaching American accomplishments in context and without value judgments as to the worth of other systems and societies in their own context is political correctness. The American system developed the way it did in response to a unique history and citizenry and with the aid of the abundance of space and resources. It is a good system for us. To say it is, bar none, "the best" and to take it into the realm of morally superior to all other systems is where it crosses the line.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Nope, that would be me.

And your problem is quite legitimate. I don't want kids indoctrinated to be neocons either.

However, we don't discard facts just because of some nutjob idea of political correctness.

I fail to see how teaching American accomplishments in context and without value judgments as to the worth of other systems and societies in their own context is political correctness. The American system deveoped the way it did in response to a unique history and citizenry and with the aid of the abundance of space and resources. It is a good system for us. To say it is, bar none, "the best" and to take it into the realm of morally superior to all other systems is where it crosses the line.

The standards don't do any of that.

 

[goldcatt]

And your problem is quite legitimate. I don't want kids indoctrinated to be neocons either.

However, we don't discard facts just because of some nutjob idea of political correctness.

I fail to see how teaching American accomplishments in context and without value judgments as to the worth of other systems and societies in their own context is political correctness. The American system deveoped the way it did in response to a unique history and citizenry and with the aid of the abundance of space and resources. It is a good system for us. To say it is, bar none, "the best" and to take it into the realm of morally superior to all other systems is where it crosses the line.

The standards don't do any of that.

That's what "American Exceptionalism" is, as a historical doctrine. And if the new standards require it, that's what will be taught. That's my problem with it.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I fail to see how teaching American accomplishments in context and without value judgments as to the worth of other systems and societies in their own context is political correctness. The American system deveoped the way it did in response to a unique history and citizenry and with the aid of the abundance of space and resources. It is a good system for us. To say it is, bar none, "the best" and to take it into the realm of morally superior to all other systems is where it crosses the line.

The standards don't do any of that.

That's what "American Exceptionalism" is, as a historical doctrine. And if the new standards require it, that's what will be taught. That's my problem with it.

It's a historical fact.

 

[goldcatt]

The standards don't do any of that.

That's what "American Exceptionalism" is, as a historical doctrine. And if the new standards require it, that's what will be taught. That's my problem with it.

It's a historical fact.

What historical fact? That America from its inception is inherently superior to all other nations? Unique, yes. Strong, yes. Something to be proud of, yes. But inherently superior, virtous, moral? That's a nationalistic sentiment and a value judgment I'm not comfortable with labelling a "fact". You have every right to your opinion, but it's still opinion.

 

[Contumacious]

Tonight, we introduced you to Don McLeroy, pictured above, a Texas dentist, self-described "Christian fundamentalist" and elected Board of Education member.

He is pushing for more focus on conservative leaders and issues -- and less of what he calls liberal bias in school textbooks.

No doubt some in the educational establishment will criticize the efforts, but that won't necessarily keep those lessons from textbooks that will be taught at schools across the country.

So tonight, we ask: Do you think America's textbooks are too liberal? Or is this wrongly politicizing the classroom?

Tell us what you think.

Nothing more than a bullshit pretext to impose their theocratic views. The so-called conservatives correctly state that the US is a Constitutional Republic. I would like to see their explanation for the gazillion state laws which transgress upon our right to life, liberty, property and to pursue happiness.


.

So these clowns now believe that liberal bias has even entered high school? As if it weren't enough that college academia is accused of liberal-itis. For some odd reason, textbook publishers typically write them to Texas standards, so are these revisionist Texas conservatives now suggesting that what they have been teaching in the past is wrong too? Or just not "conservative" enough.

I do wish Texas would just secede and get it over with.

"Conservatism" is an euphemism for religionism.

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

One board for one state. It happens every year. It's decided by parents and citizens serving on that board, listening to the individual school boards and parent-teacher organizations on the local level.

The "economy of bulk" thing comes into play because Texas is now the largest purchaser of textbooks, therefore the ones with their standards will be cheaper than ones other states customize.

Nothing's changed, except for the fact that for the first time ever, Texas is the biggest textbook customer.

So why shouldn't the parents of any given district in El Paso be able to buy text books and assign curriculum that they like, not even caring how the parents in Houston or Dallas are educating their young?

Does the school district in Marfa Texas really have equal representation on the Texas Board of Education as any of the school districts in Houston do?

Do they have the same concerns? Do they even have the exact same education goals? Should they?

You would have to look to the state legislature to get the law changed.

The legislature see, the representative body of the state that's elected by the folks.

Everybody living in a state where the state legislature seems to be doing a GREAT job raise your hand.

Anybody?​

Nobody?​

I'd have bet there would have been somebody.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Can't be soon enough, IMO

If that happened, which it won't -- you would still be welcome in my home. You might need a visa though!

And you'd need a visa to visit Oklahoma, Louisiana and Arizona!

[Or maybe New Mexico. I shoulda checked a map first to refresh my geography before I look sloppy.]

Why?

You don't need a visa to go from Germany to France any more...

Are Americans that paranoid about each other without the protection of The Federal Government?

How's that workin' out for y'all?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Nope, that would be me.

And your problem is quite legitimate. I don't want kids indoctrinated to be neocons either.

However, we don't discard facts just because of some nutjob idea of political correctness.

I fail to see how teaching American accomplishments in context and without value judgments as to the worth of other systems and societies in their own context is political correctness. The American system developed the way it did in response to a unique history and citizenry and with the aid of the abundance of space and resources. It is a good system for us. To say it is, bar none, "the best" and to take it into the realm of morally superior to all other systems is where it crosses the line.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to goldcatt again.

Bummer!

 

[Political Junky]

Years ago California was the lead state for modeling text books for the nation. I remember a 'backlash' movement that got started in the late 80s, early 90s over the omission of text in history books that CA deemed was not PC enough.
Looks like the nation had enough of the ultra liberals 'cooking the books' (so to speak) and decided to use TX. as the model. Now TX might be headed down the same road in the opposite direction.

It's more driven by economics than anything else. CA is an economic disaster, therefore has lost the stroke in textbooks.

What I find fascinating is the conservatives who claim they want local control of schools and curriculum, but are all right with this decision potentially controlling textbooks used across the nation so long as the books reflect their own point of view. So much for the right wing being any diferent from the left.

 

[bodecea]

Not sure it matters to them whether the entire nation follows their textbook standards or not. It matters to them if Texas does.

The rest of the deal, the "nationwide effect" is nothing at all other than economics.

And you're fine with that effect? I'm not. No more than I was with the far left setting de facto nationwide standards regardless of the reason. Propaganda is propaganda and wrong is wrong. If anything, Texas having a greater nationwide impact - and knowing it - means they have a much higher standard of responsibility. California failed when it was their turn, it doesn't give Texas a pass to fail just as badly knowing what the result will be.

You're also either forgetting or not realizing, other states are not REQUIRED to adopt these standards. They can have textbooks any way they want. But custom orders do cost extra.

Example: Texas NEVER adopted the CA standards. Ever.

I see this happening...if TX does accept these silly standards, it would be wise for textbook companies to run far away from them because other states (except for Mississippi and other backwards places) won't want them.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

America IS exceptiona

America is one country of many. As long as you can admit that many of this country's policies and actions throughout history have been and ARE TODAY exceptionally negative along with your percieved exceptional good, which I assume you are referring to, then yes, it is an exceptional country.

 

[goldcatt]

America IS exceptiona

America is one country of many. As long as you can admit that many of this country's policies and actions throughout history is exceptionally negative along with your percieved exceptional good, which I assume you are referring to, then yes, it is an exceptional country.

There are a lot of ways to think of "exceptional". If one uses the word meaning America is good, or has accomplished exceptional things, or any number of other ways, I'm fine with that. But American Exceptionalism as a doctrine isn't about saying America is "good", it's about saying America is "superior" simply by virtue of being America. That's one smallish step shy of the Bush Doctrine, and not an ideology I want my kids taught in public school.

 

[rightwinger]

I think its a miracle that Texans even read

 

[Ringel05]

I think its a miracle that Texans even read

Why? Did you teach them?

 

[bodecea]

America IS exceptiona

America is one country of many. As long as you can admit that many of this country's policies and actions throughout history is exceptionally negative along with your percieved exceptional good, which I assume you are referring to, then yes, it is an exceptional country.

There are a lot of ways to think of "exceptional". If one uses the word meaning America is good, or has accomplished exceptional things, or any number of other ways, I'm fine with that. But American Exceptionalism as a doctrine isn't about saying America is "good", it's about saying America is "superior" simply by virtue of being America. That's one smallish step shy of the Bush Doctrine, and not an ideology I want my kids taught in public school.

It's the new Manifest Destiny.

 

[bodecea]

I think its a miracle that Texans even read

The football players probably can't.