CDZ Dont Be Fooled by the False Liberal-Conservative Dichotomy

[JimBowie1958]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

There is no real difference between liberals and conservatives inside the Beltway. Oh, yeah they talk a good fight, like the GOP did over this last 2010 elections, but as soon as they are back in DC, the GOP does one pratfall 'FAIL' after another and dont stop any of Obama's agenda, in fact they saved his bacon on the TPP.

All these candidates sell access for donations, and with that access there is an implied promise to serve the people that give them loads of cash. These donors are largely the same people; major corporations and banks like Goldman Sachs or GE or GM. We little people down here in the low rungs of American society don't count for these guys. We are just the 'little people' and they have bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with us except on one day every two years.

What is liberal about forcing schools to change their menus at lunch to inedible garbage? What is conservative about voting away our national sovereignty one piece at a time?

There is no genuine conservatism or liberalism any more. There are only fakes and frauds who have hijacked what those words used to mean. The liberal frauds of our day are not classic liberals, they are Marxists, and the so-called conservatives are really neo-con refugees from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party that got run out in the 1980s and are themselves a mix of godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists.

The two major parties are a duopoly who share power and agreed to cooperate in keeping out third party efforts by hook or crook, nothing more.

So why play their game?

We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

Convenience.

 

[EatMorChikin]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

There is no real difference between liberals and conservatives inside the Beltway. Oh, yeah they talk a good fight, like the GOP did over this last 2010 elections, but as soon as they are back in DC, the GOP does one pratfall 'FAIL' after another and dont stop any of Obama's agenda, in fact they saved his bacon on the TPP.

All these candidates sell access for donations, and with that access there is an implied promise to serve the people that give them loads of cash. These donors are largely the same people; major corporations and banks like Goldman Sachs or GE or GM. We little people down here in the low rungs of American society don't count for these guys. We are just the 'little people' and they have bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with us except on one day every two years.

What is liberal about forcing schools to change their menus at lunch to inedible garbage? What is conservative about voting away our national sovereignty one piece at a time?

There is no genuine conservatism or liberalism any more. There are only fakes and frauds who have hijacked what those words used to mean. The liberal frauds of our day are not classic liberals, they are Marxists, and the so-called conservatives are really neo-con refugees from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party that got run out in the 1980s and are themselves a mix of godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists.

The two major parties are a duopoly who share power and agreed to cooperate in keeping out third party efforts by hook or crook, nothing more.

So why play their game?

We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence.

You start out by insulting the reading skills of people here. Than you don't know when the fucking last election was? Dohkay!

Yeah I stopped reading at that point.

You might want to learn tact when starting a thread, The best your gonna do here is a few pity responses.

 

[JakeStarkey]

When you use "Marxists" and "Fabian Socialists" and "godless Trotskyites", you reveal you are stuck in a 1950s rhetoric that was unreal then and unlinked to the real world today.

 

[Mac1958]

The behaviors are obviously very similar (and boy, do they hate to hear that one), but the direction each is going is quite the opposite.

The Right appears to believe that zero (0) government is optimal, and the Left appears to think it can turn America into Sweden.

The zealots have taken over each side, and all the rest of us can do is say "please stop".

.

 

[PratchettFan]

There is a difference between sitting on your butt in front of the tv with a bottle of Jim Beam, solving all the world's problems with mindless ideology when there are no consequences and having to actually make a government work. If you want to live where only your ideology reigns supreme, you need to find yourself a nice place with a despotic dictator who thinks like you and move there. You will never find it here.

 

[Thunderbird]

When you use "Marxists" and "Fabian Socialists" and "godless Trotskyites", you reveal you are stuck in a 1950s rhetoric that was unreal then and unlinked to the real world today.

Jake doesn't understand the class system in the U.S. Working class people like the traditional Democratic party. Middle class people like the traditional Republican party. The upper class is Marxish - they hate religious folk and working folk. They hate freedom as much as they cherish their privileges.

Henry Hay was an upper middle class radical starting back in the 30s when he joined the Communist party. He became a prominent gay activist and NAMBLA supporter.

Here's a typical activist of today: billionaire Jennifer Pritzker, formally known as James. She/he is a member of the corrupt Pritzker clan which is close to Obama.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

There is no real difference between liberals and conservatives inside the Beltway. Oh, yeah they talk a good fight, like the GOP did over this last 2010 elections, but as soon as they are back in DC, the GOP does one pratfall 'FAIL' after another and dont stop any of Obama's agenda, in fact they saved his bacon on the TPP.

All these candidates sell access for donations, and with that access there is an implied promise to serve the people that give them loads of cash. These donors are largely the same people; major corporations and banks like Goldman Sachs or GE or GM. We little people down here in the low rungs of American society don't count for these guys. We are just the 'little people' and they have bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with us except on one day every two years.

What is liberal about forcing schools to change their menus at lunch to inedible garbage? What is conservative about voting away our national sovereignty one piece at a time?

There is no genuine conservatism or liberalism any more. There are only fakes and frauds who have hijacked what those words used to mean. The liberal frauds of our day are not classic liberals, they are Marxists, and the so-called conservatives are really neo-con refugees from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party that got run out in the 1980s and are themselves a mix of godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists.

The two major parties are a duopoly who share power and agreed to cooperate in keeping out third party efforts by hook or crook, nothing more.

So why play their game?

We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence.

You start out by insulting the reading skills of people here. Than you don't know when the fucking last election was? Dohkay!

Yeah I stopped reading at that point.

You might want to learn tact when starting a thread, The best your gonna do here is a few pity responses.

Dude, the last federal elections were in 2010. You do realize that not all federal elections include Presidential elections, right? The ones that don't are often referred to as 'off year' elections.

And I said I 'lost' 90% with the word dichotomy. IF you read the post anyway, then I was obviously not talking to you. Besides, it was a joke, lighten up.

 

[JimBowie1958]

When you use "Marxists" and "Fabian Socialists" and "godless Trotskyites", you reveal you are stuck in a 1950s rhetoric that was unreal then and unlinked to the real world today.

You seriously think that there are no Marxists or Fabian Socialists around today?

lol, whatever

 

[midcan5]

Some food for thought for the thoughtful.

"The rise of conservative politics in postwar America is one of the great puzzles of American political history. For much of the period that followed the end of World War II, conservative ideas about the primacy of the free market, and the dangers of too-powerful labor unions, government regulation, and an activist, interventionist state seemed to have been thoroughly rejected by most intellectual and political elites. Scholars and politicians alike dismissed those who adhered to such faiths as a "radical right," for whom to quote the Columbia University historian Richard Hofstadter politics "becomes an arena into which the wildest fancies are projected, the most paranoid suspicions, the most absurd superstitions, the most bizarre apocalyptic fantasies." How, then, did such ideas move from their marginal position in the middle years of the twentieth century to become the reigning politics of the country by the century's end?" Kim Phillips-Fein ('Invisible Hands')

"Yet, more recently, as William Connolly and others have demonstrated, Christian religion and capitalist economics have again been fused tightly in the extreme conservative movement that has captured the Republican Party. This, I believe, is the main reason that so much of their economic reasoning appears irrational and in direct violation of mainstream economics. It disregards almost all available evidence regarding the efficacy of their specific, or more appropriately, often unspecific, economic policy proposals." The Contemporary Condition The Church of Capitalism Why Right-Wing Economics is Once Again not Rational


"[T]he rhetoric of the enterprise is fucked. 95 percent of political commentary, whether spoken or written, is now polluted by the very politics it’s supposed to be about. Meaning it’s become totally ideological and reductive: The writer/speaker has certain political convictions or affiliations, and proceeds to filter all reality and spin all assertion according to those convictions and loyalties. Everybody’s pissed off and exasperated and impervious to argument from any other side. Opposing viewpoints are not just incorrect but contemptible, corrupt, evil. Conservative thinkers are balder about this kind of attitude: Limbaugh, Hannity, that horrific O’Reilly person. Coulter, Kristol, etc. But the Left’s been infected, too. Have you read this new Al Franken book? Parts of it are funny, but it’s totally venomous (like, what possible response can rightist pundits have to Franken’s broadsides but further rage and return-venom?). Or see also e.g. Lapham’s latest Harper’s columns, or most of the stuff in the Nation, or even Rolling Stone. It’s all become like Zinn and Chomsky but without the immense bodies of hard data these older guys use to back up their screeds. There’s no more complex, messy, community-wide argument (or “dialogue”); political discourse is now a formulaic matter of preaching to one’s own choir and demonizing the opposition. Everything’s relentlessly black-and-whitened. Since the truth is way, way more gray and complicated than any one ideology can capture, the whole thing seems to me not just stupid but stupefying." DFW The Believer - Interview with David Foster Wallace



"Even more important than this victory is that it is the first real crack in the deal that built the Republican revival of the last nearly 40 years: secular capitalists and religious fundamentalists agreeing on the marriage of free-market economics and a conservative religious social order." Linda Hirshman The Conservative Coalition Gets Cracked - The Daily Beast

 

[martybegan]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

There is no real difference between liberals and conservatives inside the Beltway. Oh, yeah they talk a good fight, like the GOP did over this last 2010 elections, but as soon as they are back in DC, the GOP does one pratfall 'FAIL' after another and dont stop any of Obama's agenda, in fact they saved his bacon on the TPP.

All these candidates sell access for donations, and with that access there is an implied promise to serve the people that give them loads of cash. These donors are largely the same people; major corporations and banks like Goldman Sachs or GE or GM. We little people down here in the low rungs of American society don't count for these guys. We are just the 'little people' and they have bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with us except on one day every two years.

What is liberal about forcing schools to change their menus at lunch to inedible garbage? What is conservative about voting away our national sovereignty one piece at a time?

There is no genuine conservatism or liberalism any more. There are only fakes and frauds who have hijacked what those words used to mean. The liberal frauds of our day are not classic liberals, they are Marxists, and the so-called conservatives are really neo-con refugees from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party that got run out in the 1980s and are themselves a mix of godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists.

The two major parties are a duopoly who share power and agreed to cooperate in keeping out third party efforts by hook or crook, nothing more.

So why play their game?

We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence.

Getting back to limited government or constitutional government at this point would require the collapse of the current system, or at least a severe disruption.

 

[martybegan]

The behaviors are obviously very similar (and boy, do they hate to hear that one), but the direction each is going is quite the opposite.

The Right appears to believe that zero (0) government is optimal, and the Left appears to think it can turn America into Sweden.

The zealots have taken over each side, and all the rest of us can do is say "please stop".

.

We don't believe zero government is optimal, but local control is better than federal, and all is protected by the bill of rights.

 

[JimBowie1958]

When you use "Marxists" and "Fabian Socialists" and "godless Trotskyites", you reveal you are stuck in a 1950s rhetoric that was unreal then and unlinked to the real world today.

Jake doesn't understand the class system in the U.S. Working class people like the traditional Democratic party. Middle class people like the traditional Republican party. The upper class is Marxish - they hate religious folk and working folk. They hate freedom as much as they cherish their privileges.

Henry Hay was an upper middle class radical starting back in the 30s when he joined the Communist party. He became a prominent gay activist and NAMBLA supporter.


Here's a typical activist of today: billionaire Jennifer Pritzker, formally known as James. She/he is a member of the corrupt Pritzker clan which is close to Obama.


Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Great points. Unfortunatgely, it seems that the upper class has taken over both parties by pretending to be either liberal or conservative, then doing things completely different once they had power. The socialists in the Democratic Party leadership and the neocons in control of the GOP are what is so deeply flawed about our political system.

They are engaging in fraud.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The behaviors are obviously very similar (and boy, do they hate to hear that one), but the direction each is going is quite the opposite.

The Right appears to believe that zero (0) government is optimal, and the Left appears to think it can turn America into Sweden.

The zealots have taken over each side, and all the rest of us can do is say "please stop".

.

The polarization of our political system is the problem and it is done as part of the effort to maintain the two party system. On the left, the Democrat Socialists scare their voters into not going third party by painting the Republicans as racist bastard who want to re-establish slavery for all minorities. The neocons paint the Democrats, no matter who they are, as communists and haters of Christianity and God, and many of them are among the leadership of BOTH sides.

The two party system as it exists today is pushing our nation toward civil war.

 

[JimBowie1958]

We don't believe zero government is optimal, but local control is better than federal, and all is protected by the bill of rights.

That is called Subsidiarity.

Subsidiarity - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[PratchettFan]

The behaviors are obviously very similar (and boy, do they hate to hear that one), but the direction each is going is quite the opposite.

The Right appears to believe that zero (0) government is optimal, and the Left appears to think it can turn America into Sweden.

The zealots have taken over each side, and all the rest of us can do is say "please stop".

.

The polarization of our political system is the problem and it is done as part of the effort to maintain the two party system. On the left, the Democrat Socialists scare their voters into not going third party by painting the Republicans as racist bastard who want to re-establish slavery for all minorities. The neocons paint the Democrats, no matter who they are, as communists and haters of Christianity and God, and many of them are among the leadership of BOTH sides.

The two party system as it exists today is pushing our nation toward civil war.

Perhaps the solution is selecting our elected officials through a lottery.

 

[rdean]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

There is no real difference between liberals and conservatives inside the Beltway. Oh, yeah they talk a good fight, like the GOP did over this last 2010 elections, but as soon as they are back in DC, the GOP does one pratfall 'FAIL' after another and dont stop any of Obama's agenda, in fact they saved his bacon on the TPP.

All these candidates sell access for donations, and with that access there is an implied promise to serve the people that give them loads of cash. These donors are largely the same people; major corporations and banks like Goldman Sachs or GE or GM. We little people down here in the low rungs of American society don't count for these guys. We are just the 'little people' and they have bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with us except on one day every two years.

What is liberal about forcing schools to change their menus at lunch to inedible garbage? What is conservative about voting away our national sovereignty one piece at a time?

There is no genuine conservatism or liberalism any more. There are only fakes and frauds who have hijacked what those words used to mean. The liberal frauds of our day are not classic liberals, they are Marxists, and the so-called conservatives are really neo-con refugees from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party that got run out in the 1980s and are themselves a mix of godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists.

The two major parties are a duopoly who share power and agreed to cooperate in keeping out third party efforts by hook or crook, nothing more.

So why play their game?

We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. The two parties are very different. For one, liberals are only a small part of the coalition that is the Democratic Party. The only reason right wingers don't understand that is the same reason they don't understand much of anything. They don't even understand why their disastrous policies fail again and again. Because of this determined ignorance. Belief in something without factual evidence to support the belief and denial of true facts.
It's been Obama's agenda that brought this country back from the disastrous Bush agenda.
You don't even offer a single solution to a problem you can't even seem to positively identify. But you do have fun repeating the words Marxists, neo-con, godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists. Even though it's not clear you know what they mean.
Democrats make school lunches available for children. Republicans want to cut them.
Democrats want all Americans to have health care, Republicans don't.
Democrats want BP to pay for what they did, Republicans don't.
Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.
Democrats know we can't pay off debt unless we make money. That includes an improved infrastructure and college and trade school educated workers. Republicans think by not spending we can pay off the debt.

 

[martybegan]

We don't believe zero government is optimal, but local control is better than federal, and all is protected by the bill of rights.

That is called Subsidiarity.

Subsidiarity - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Or you could just call it federalism, or constitutional federalism.

Some things are better done at the federal level, some at the State level. Current political leaders on both sides seem to run for federal solutions automatically.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Perhaps the solution is selecting our elected officials through a lottery.

That would be an improvement over letting lobbyists pick them out like they do now.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

There is no real difference between liberals and conservatives inside the Beltway. Oh, yeah they talk a good fight, like the GOP did over this last 2010 elections, but as soon as they are back in DC, the GOP does one pratfall 'FAIL' after another and dont stop any of Obama's agenda, in fact they saved his bacon on the TPP.

All these candidates sell access for donations, and with that access there is an implied promise to serve the people that give them loads of cash. These donors are largely the same people; major corporations and banks like Goldman Sachs or GE or GM. We little people down here in the low rungs of American society don't count for these guys. We are just the 'little people' and they have bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with us except on one day every two years.

What is liberal about forcing schools to change their menus at lunch to inedible garbage? What is conservative about voting away our national sovereignty one piece at a time?

There is no genuine conservatism or liberalism any more. There are only fakes and frauds who have hijacked what those words used to mean. The liberal frauds of our day are not classic liberals, they are Marxists, and the so-called conservatives are really neo-con refugees from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party that got run out in the 1980s and are themselves a mix of godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists.

The two major parties are a duopoly who share power and agreed to cooperate in keeping out third party efforts by hook or crook, nothing more.

So why play their game?

We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence.

You are mental and so incredibly uninformed it's humorous. The two parties are very different. For one, liberals are only a small part of the coalition that is the Democratic Party. The only reason right wingers don't understand that is the same reason they don't understand much of anything. They don't even understand why their disastrous policies fail again and again. Because of this determined ignorance. Belief in something without factual evidence to support the belief and denial of true facts.
It's been Obama's agenda that brought this country back from the disastrous Bush agenda.
You don't even offer a single solution to a problem you can't even seem to positively identify. But you do have fun repeating the words Marxists, neo-con, godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists. Even though it's not clear you know what they mean.
Democrats make school lunches available for children. Republicans want to cut them.
Democrats want all Americans to have health care, Republicans don't.
Democrats want BP to pay for what they did, Republicans don't.
Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.
Democrats know we can't pay off debt unless we make money. That includes an improved infrastructure and college and trade school educated workers. Republicans think by not spending we can pay off the debt.

Isnt discussion in this forum supposed to be respectful and free of insults?

You make a long list of unsupported accusations and claims then talk about how ignorant I am. Sure, whatever floats your boat., dude.