Does true and false exist perfectly in the real world?

[SuperDemocrat]

I was listening to someone talk about mathematics and he said that the number three exist perfectly in your mind. It is 3 and nothing more. A square exist in the same way because if you imagined a square in your mind it would be mathematically perfect but in the real world a square base of building may not be a perfect square at all since it's sides and angles may not be equal to one another. That by the way is the definition of a square. Would the concepts of true and false also be the same? In our minds it is perfect but in the real world it may not match what we are thinking. A good example is when a boss says 'this employee always works hard' and happens to not remember the few times when he didn't. He bases his logic on that which is 'this employee always words hard' as a true statement that is always true. In his mind it is true so he is able to make his judgements on that assumption but in real life it may not be as true as he thinks it is. Could he actually come to any conclusions about him without the absoluteness of the truth existing in his mind? Would his thoughts seem cloudy and unclear? Isn't it just easier to break our ideas into true and false just so we can have a some kind of idea of the world we can understand? It just seems like true and false has to exist as perfectly consistent things in our mind just so we can think build a picture of the world that we can comprehend in our own minds even though that picture may or may not be accurate.

 

[zaangalewa]

I'm a German and I understand what you say here - in my way, not in your way. The english language is for me cloudy and unclear - and what I call "meine wundervolle Sprache voll himmelsklarer Poesie und tiefgründiger Weisheit" is for you dark and unknown. Fortunatelly exists a world of ideas - a pure spiritual world - which is common between all human beings. That's why we are able to find the ideas of different cultures in the different languages - and we are able to compare this with our ideas. We are able to find the common elements and are able to eliminate unimportant sideeffects and so on and so on. As far as I know should this world of ideas, where we use different names or sounds for ideas, also be compatible with every "intelligent species" in this universe here, because physics is using the world of ideas too - it uses mathematics - and we are able to make in physics or any other natural science sensefull 'prophecies' for experiments. In this case an idea find its truth in the reality. Sure is the moon not [only] a perfect circle for example - but he is circle too and his volume - ¿his? : the moon is male in the german language and the sun is female - is 4/3*pi*r^3, if I remember well.

 

[G.T.]

Yes, true and false exist perfectly in the real world. For example, an ant is never not an ant at the same time and in the same way as when its an ant.

 

[Michelle420]

No true and false are only beliefs.

 

[G.T.]

No true and false are only beliefs.

Theyre concepts which fall under the category of belief unless there's certainty. cogito ergo sum(i think its spelled); for example

 

[Michelle420]

No true and false are only beliefs.

Theyre concepts which fall under the category of belief unless there's certainty. cogito ergo sum(i think its spelled); for example

What's a real world?

 

[G.T.]

No true and false are only beliefs.

Theyre concepts which fall under the category of belief unless there's certainty. cogito ergo sum(i think its spelled); for example

What's a real world?

It doesnt matter if the world you experience is real or fake, you can establish that you exist as a thinking entity by even having the thought "do I exist."

From there, other truth can be established as absolutes.

For example, the concept of a christian god is that it is "all knowing."

Therefore, you can know the following as an absolute truth:

1. i am not the christian god.
2. if i am the christian god, then it is not all knowing or else Id know........that im the christian god.

 

[Michelle420]

No true and false are only beliefs.

Theyre concepts which fall under the category of belief unless there's certainty. cogito ergo sum(i think its spelled); for example

What's a real world?

It doesnt matter if the world you experience is real or fake, you can establish that you exist as a thinking entity by even having the thought "do I exist."

From there, other truth can be established as absolutes.

For example, the concept of a christian god is that it is "all knowing."

Therefore, you can know the following as an absolute truth:

1. i am not the christian god.
2. if i am the christian god, then it is not all knowing or else Id know........that im the christian god.

That's not really absolutism, seems more like relativism.

 

[G.T.]

No true and false are only beliefs.

Theyre concepts which fall under the category of belief unless there's certainty. cogito ergo sum(i think its spelled); for example

What's a real world?

It doesnt matter if the world you experience is real or fake, you can establish that you exist as a thinking entity by even having the thought "do I exist."

From there, other truth can be established as absolutes.

For example, the concept of a christian god is that it is "all knowing."

Therefore, you can know the following as an absolute truth:

1. i am not the christian god.
2. if i am the christian god, then it is not all knowing or else Id know........that im the christian god.

That's not really absolutism, seems more like relativism.

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

 

[Michelle420]

No true and false are only beliefs.

Theyre concepts which fall under the category of belief unless there's certainty. cogito ergo sum(i think its spelled); for example

What's a real world?

It doesnt matter if the world you experience is real or fake, you can establish that you exist as a thinking entity by even having the thought "do I exist."

From there, other truth can be established as absolutes.

For example, the concept of a christian god is that it is "all knowing."

Therefore, you can know the following as an absolute truth:

1. i am not the christian god.
2. if i am the christian god, then it is not all knowing or else Id know........that im the christian god.

That's not really absolutism, seems more like relativism.

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

 

[G.T.]

Theyre concepts which fall under the category of belief unless there's certainty. cogito ergo sum(i think its spelled); for example

What's a real world?

It doesnt matter if the world you experience is real or fake, you can establish that you exist as a thinking entity by even having the thought "do I exist."

From there, other truth can be established as absolutes.

For example, the concept of a christian god is that it is "all knowing."

Therefore, you can know the following as an absolute truth:

1. i am not the christian god.
2. if i am the christian god, then it is not all knowing or else Id know........that im the christian god.

That's not really absolutism, seems more like relativism.

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

 

[Michelle420]

What's a real world?

It doesnt matter if the world you experience is real or fake, you can establish that you exist as a thinking entity by even having the thought "do I exist."

From there, other truth can be established as absolutes.

For example, the concept of a christian god is that it is "all knowing."

Therefore, you can know the following as an absolute truth:

1. i am not the christian god.
2. if i am the christian god, then it is not all knowing or else Id know........that im the christian god.

That's not really absolutism, seems more like relativism.

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

right it's not absolute even him thinking therefore he is, is only part of belief that the reality he said it in is real.

 

[G.T.]

It doesnt matter if the world you experience is real or fake, you can establish that you exist as a thinking entity by even having the thought "do I exist."

From there, other truth can be established as absolutes.

For example, the concept of a christian god is that it is "all knowing."

Therefore, you can know the following as an absolute truth:

1. i am not the christian god.
2. if i am the christian god, then it is not all knowing or else Id know........that im the christian god.

That's not really absolutism, seems more like relativism.

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

right it's not absolute even him thinking therefore he is, is only part of belief that the reality he said it in is real.

Im not speaking from his pov

I can establish as an absolute fact that I exist, and only establish it to myself.... but not to you or anyone else.

My existing is not relative fact, its an absolute fact but I can only establish it as such to myself. Thats a limitation.

 

[Michelle420]

That's not really absolutism, seems more like relativism.

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

right it's not absolute even him thinking therefore he is, is only part of belief that the reality he said it in is real.

Im not speaking from his pov

I can establish as an absolute fact that I exist, and only establish it to myself.... but not to you or anyone else.

My existing is not relative fact, its an absolute fact but I can only establish it as such to myself. Thats a limitation.

I just think about it differently. But I get ya.

 

[G.T.]

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

right it's not absolute even him thinking therefore he is, is only part of belief that the reality he said it in is real.

Im not speaking from his pov

I can establish as an absolute fact that I exist, and only establish it to myself.... but not to you or anyone else.

My existing is not relative fact, its an absolute fact but I can only establish it as such to myself. Thats a limitation.

I just think about it differently. But I get ya.

Yea. To elaborate, and its all just my opinion, and im only elaborating because I like these exercises for myself at the very least

..... I think relativity comes into play with establishing the facts - but the facts themselves are not relative they are objective.

i either exist, or i dont. one is the fact.....one is objectively true.

establishing that i exist ...can only be done relative to myself, so the establishment of that is relative....

but if i do, or do not actually exist is not relative... its just a fact, or not....and can be established.....or not. True and false, their existence as a concept is a product of the mind........what those concepts seek to describe - actually exists.

 

[Michelle420]

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

right it's not absolute even him thinking therefore he is, is only part of belief that the reality he said it in is real.

Im not speaking from his pov

I can establish as an absolute fact that I exist, and only establish it to myself.... but not to you or anyone else.

My existing is not relative fact, its an absolute fact but I can only establish it as such to myself. Thats a limitation.

I just think about it differently. But I get ya.

Yea. To elaborate, and its all just my opinion, and im only elaborating because I like these exercises for myself at the very least

..... I think relativity comes into play with establishing the facts - but the facts themselves are not relative they are objective.

i either exist, or i dont. one is the fact.....one is objectively true.

establishing that i exist ...can only be done relative to myself, so the establishment of that is relative....

but if i do, or do not actually exist is not relative... its just a fact, or not....and can be established.....or not. True and false, their existence as a concept is a product of the mind........what those concepts seek to describe - actually exists.

I understood you. Thanks.

 

[G.T.]

okie dokie

 

[Michelle420]

That's not really absolutism, seems more like relativism.

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

right it's not absolute even him thinking therefore he is, is only part of belief that the reality he said it in is real.

Im not speaking from his pov

I can establish as an absolute fact that I exist, and only establish it to myself.... but not to you or anyone else.

My existing is not relative fact, its an absolute fact but I can only establish it as such to myself. Thats a limitation.

What if you were hypnotized and everything you thought to be true about yourself wasn't and then you were told to wake up and poof this existence you thought real was no more and who you were so sure you are because of your thought turned out only to be a hypnotic suggestion.

 

[G.T.]

Id disagree, but these things take too long capital D.

Relativism means it changes from observor to observor.

In the case of establishing whether you exist or not - relativism doesnt even apply as a concept.....youre only establishing your own existence, and establishing it TO yourself......

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

right it's not absolute even him thinking therefore he is, is only part of belief that the reality he said it in is real.

Im not speaking from his pov

I can establish as an absolute fact that I exist, and only establish it to myself.... but not to you or anyone else.

My existing is not relative fact, its an absolute fact but I can only establish it as such to myself. Thats a limitation.

What if you were hypnotized and everything you thought to be true about yourself wasn't and then you were told to wake up and poof this existence you thought real was no more.

I dont think as an absolute fact that anything is true about myself....to begin with except for existing.

I can think of no scenario where I could........think, if i didnt exist -

That existence im experiencing could all indeed be some misleading thing, or a hallucination.....or a computer model.....

but i know i exist, at the very least - im either a computer mind, or a human one....or something spiritual or metaphysical .....maybe even in another dimension....maybe I AM a dimension...


but i know i exist or i couldnt be thinking

 

[Michelle420]

I know what it means, does Descartes still think he is? what's he think now what's reality.

I cannot establish the existence of descartes, and insofar as he established himself by realizing that he thinks......therefore he exists.....?

Him still existing is an unknown.

1. did he ever exist
2. do we think after we die
3. is he still thinking..


etc...lotsa variables

right it's not absolute even him thinking therefore he is, is only part of belief that the reality he said it in is real.

Im not speaking from his pov

I can establish as an absolute fact that I exist, and only establish it to myself.... but not to you or anyone else.

My existing is not relative fact, its an absolute fact but I can only establish it as such to myself. Thats a limitation.

What if you were hypnotized and everything you thought to be true about yourself wasn't and then you were told to wake up and poof this existence you thought real was no more.

I dont think as an absolute fact that anything is true about myself....to begin with except for existing.

I can think of no scenario where I could........think, if i didnt exist -

That existence im experiencing could all indeed be some misleading thing, or a hallucination.....or a computer model.....

but i know i exist, at the very least - im either a computer mind, or a human one....or something spiritual or metaphysical .....maybe even in another dimension....maybe I AM a dimension...


but i know i exist or i couldnt be thinking

Like A.I. or gnr use your illusions, life is but a dream and then you wake up or die depending on what you think at the time right?