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I wrote it for a bull ring discussion. It definitely took longer to write than 10 minutes.No way you could have wrote that all in 10 minutes ding. You're copy/pasting again.
I don't believe in your websites that you copy/paste from. I also don't believe in your mantra that you get from them. I'm not sure what bonuses you get for quoting them, but it's all wrong.
See Enuma Elish, Epic of Gligamesh, Atra.Hasis, and more. That are way older than the Bible, yet contain similar stories. The difference is the OT changed the gods to be a singular monotheistic, and schizophrenic "God".
There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is not matter and energy like us and God exists outside of our four dimension space time. In fact the premise is that God is no thing. That God is a spirit. A spirit is no thing. The closest we can come to conceptualizing God is that God is consciousness without form.You have zero facts. You've always had zero facts. You'll never have real facts because you don't know what that is.I have lots of facts for basing my belief that spirit created the material world. Where have you been?So you just made up stuff without any basis in fact.It starts with how I perceive God and what the laws of nature are telling us. I perceive God as spirit which is no thing. It doesn't exist like you or I do. My perception of God is that God isn't made up of stuff. God isn't made up of matter or energy as we know it. God is consciousness without a form. Supremely intelligent. As such God has a sense of humor.
The physical laws of nature tell us that space and time were created from no thing. That space and time literally popped into existence from no thing and then began to expand and cool and evolve. Until beings like us could ponder questions like the ones we are discussing. Which by the way is captured in Genesis chapters 1 and 2.
Logic tells us that if spirit created the material world, spirit can alter the material world. Other than the existing order in nature we don't see spirit controlling the material world.
And that is my basis for believing that just because we don’t see the creator controlling existence doesn’t mean he can’t.
You are the one who has no facts for his belief. You don’t even have a belief that’s how few of facts you have.
So now that a realistic perception of God has been established we need to examine the only evidence at our disposal. It should be obvious that if the material world were not created by spirit that everything that has unfolded in the evolution of space and time would have no intentional purpose. That it is just matter and energy doing what matter and energy do. Conversely, if the material world were created by spirit it should be obvious that the creation of the material world was intentional. After all in my perception of God, God is no thing and the closest thing I can relate to is a mind with no body. Using our own experiences as creators as a proxy, we know that when we create things we create them for a reason and that reason is to serve some purpose. So it would be no great leap of logic to believe that something like a mind with no body would do the same. We also know from our experiences that intelligence tends to create intelligence. We are obsessed with making smart things. So what better thing for a mind with no body to do than create a universe where beings with bodies can create smart things too.
We have good reason to believe that we find ourselves in a universe permeated with life, in which life arises inevitably, given enough time, wherever the conditions exist that make it possible. Yet were any one of a number of the physical properties of our universe otherwise - some of them basic, others seemingly trivial, almost accidental - that life, which seems now to be so prevalent, would become impossible, here or anywhere. It takes no great imagination to conceive of other possible universes, each stable and workable in itself, yet lifeless. How is it that, with so many other apparent options, we are in a universe that possesses just that peculiar nexus of properties that breeds beings that know and create. George Wald
The biological laws are such that life is programmed to survive and multiply which is a requisite for intelligence to arise. If the purpose of the universe was to create intelligence then a preference in nature for it had to exist. The Laws of Nature are such that the potential for intelligence to existed the moment space and time were created. One can argue that given the laws of nature and the size of the universe that intelligence arising was inevitable. One can also argue that creating intelligence from nothing defies the Second Law of Entropy. That creating intelligence from nothing increases order within the universe. It actually doesn't because usable energy was lost along the way as a cost of creating order from disorder. But it is nature overriding it's tendency for ever increasing disorder that interests me and raises my suspicions to look deeper and to take seriously the proposition that a mind without a body created the material world so that minds with bodies could create too.
If we examine the physical laws we discover that we live in a logical universe governed by rules, laws and information. Rules laws and information are a signs of intelligence. Intentionality and purpose are signs of intelligence. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The consequence of a logical universe is that every cause has an effect. Which means that everything happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The very nature of our physical laws point to reason and purpose.
All we have done so far is to make a logical argument for spirit creating the material world. Certainly not an argument built of fairy tales that's for sure. So going back to the two possibilities; spirit creating the material world versus everything proceeding from the material, the key distinction is no thing versus thing. So if we assume that everything I have described was just an accidental coincidence of the properties of matter, the logical conclusion is that matter and energy are just doing what matter and energy do which makes sense. The problem is that for matter and energy to do what matter and energy do, there has to be rules in place for matter and energy to obey. The formation of space and time followed rules. Specifically the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. These laws existed before space and time and defined the potential of everything which was possible. These laws are no thing. So we literally have an example of no thing existing before the material world. The creation of space and time from nothing is literally correct. Space and time were created from no thing. Spirit is no thing. No thing created space and time.
Man believing in a universal right and wrong is another fact. If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.
Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.
So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.
Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.
If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.
So where are your facts, Taz?
“If we examine the physical laws we discover that we live in a logical universe governed by rules, laws and information.”
Don’t forget talking snakes. They would be logical, governed by...you know...rules, laws and information.
And don’t forget Noah living to be 600 years old. Speaking of Noah, the flood fable identifies that only Noah and his immediate family were left to repopulate the earth after their pleasure cruise to nowhere.
That would imply some rather, how shall we say, uncomfortable questions about the gods and their views on familial (incestuous) relations.
Was it your gods who coined the phrase “incest is best”?
That is your perception of Christianity, not mine.If Christianity is true, then about 6 billion people are burning in hell, only because they never had an opportunity.
I am. I am not the one who has a faulty view of the beliefs of others.Well, then wake up!That is your perception of Christianity, not mine.If Christianity is true, then about 6 billion people are burning in hell, only because they never had an opportunity.
If Christianity is true, then about 6 billion people are burning in hell, only because they never had an opportunity to believe.
Pantheism is what you believe in now? When did that change and why?You believe in a Santa Claus religion. A make-believe religion, where you have make-believe ideas. And people who follow your beliefs, hurt, rape, enslave, and kill millions of people every year. Untold millions over the last 2000 years!
Religion is the greatest evil that has ever faced humanity. And people who continue to push it, even to this day, are brainwashed servants of future destruction.
Religion is evil. Just have faith. Pantheism is a good alternative too. That's what I believe in. No worries, no harm to others, just love and understanding in the greater realm.
Pantheism is what you believe in now? When did that change and why?You believe in a Santa Claus religion. A make-believe religion, where you have make-believe ideas. And people who follow your beliefs, hurt, rape, enslave, and kill millions of people every year. Untold millions over the last 2000 years!
Religion is the greatest evil that has ever faced humanity. And people who continue to push it, even to this day, are brainwashed servants of future destruction.
Religion is evil. Just have faith. Pantheism is a good alternative too. That's what I believe in. No worries, no harm to others, just love and understanding in the greater realm.
Would you like to have a debate in the bull ring on the merits of religion?
You got a link for that?fyi check the bull ring. Already done that, already won. Jus sayin...
Who am I hating? Beaner loving xxxxxxx like you?Taz, stop being a racist hateful mofo. Because we will have words about that.
Understand that.
And we can move forward. I got banned for calling you out. And I don't want it to happen again.
What’s a xxxxxx Don’t be afraid to speak it out loud. Beliefs not worth stating are beliefs not worth having.Who am I hating? Beaner loving nignags like you?Taz, stop being a racist hateful mofo. Because we will have words about that.
Understand that.
And we can move forward. I got banned for calling you out. And I don't want it to happen again.
A bumberclyde.What’s a nignag? Don’t be afraid to speak it out loud. Beliefs not worth stating are beliefs not worth having.Who am I hating? Beaner loving nignags like you?Taz, stop being a racist hateful mofo. Because we will have words about that.
Understand that.
And we can move forward. I got banned for calling you out. And I don't want it to happen again.
Sounds racist.A bumberclyde.What’s a nignag? Don’t be afraid to speak it out loud. Beliefs not worth stating are beliefs not worth having.Who am I hating? Beaner loving nignags like you?Taz, stop being a racist hateful mofo. Because we will have words about that.
Understand that.
And we can move forward. I got banned for calling you out. And I don't want it to happen again.
