Document confirms World Zionist Organization allocates land to settlers in Jordan val

[Hoffstra]

It is good to see that you understand the thousands of acres of privately-owned land in Arab League nations should never have been taken away from its Jewish owners without ay compensation, and that it has benefitted no one for the AL nations to have committed such theft.

I'm sure Sunni will join you in calling upon the AL nations to provide full compensation to the 950,000 or so citizens whose property and lands were seized by government decree simply because those citizens were Jews........

all Jews who fled the Arab/Muslim world after the Arab-Israel War should be able to return to their former lands immediately.

they should of course be able to sell those lands if they prefer to live in Israel, France, the USA, etc.

But yes, the Jews have a right to their lands back.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore;

The phrase "National Security Crimes" is a broad category.

Normally, in a national security crime

Where did you get that term. I have never heard it before.

BTW, occupations always have security problems. They come with the territory.

(COMMENT)

"National Security Crimes" (espionage, sabotage, subversion, treason, sedition, terrorism). Counterintelligence is the program that defends against National Security Crimes.

(3) The term “counterintelligence” means information gathered, and activities conducted, to protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted by or on behalf of foreign governments or elements thereof, foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or international terrorist activities.

Although there is no shortage of attention to each of the varied threats to national security, each of these threats (and the available government responses to them) are most often treated as independent subject matters. Yet there are significant connections between these apparently distinct criminal offenses, although little work has been done to draw such connections and develop a framework for studying national security criminal law as a unified discipline. This Article takes the first step towards building such a curriculum by integrating the criminological and legal aspects of crime in the national security realm. It examines four categories of crimes—treason, espionage, sabotage, and terrorism—and the applicable federal statutes available to prosecutors to combat these threats to national security. The Article then proceeds to draw upon interdisciplinary connections across these disparate crimes to examine why individuals engage in both violent and “white-collar” national security crime. Looking at tools ranging from wiretap authorizations to classification systems, the Article addresses what the Government can do to detect, prevent, prosecute and punish national security crimes.

* Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice, National Security Division, Counterterrorism Section; Adjunct Professor of International Criminal Law at the University of Maryland— College Park, Criminology and Criminal Justice; Adjunct Professor of Scholarly Writing in International Law at the George Washington University Law School. The opinions represented in this paper are those of the author and do not express the positions of the United States Government in any way.

SOURCE: Harvard Law --- In the Journal — November 2, 2012

Before I retired, it was my occupation.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

I thought Israel signed a peace with Jordan and Egypt. Palestine as a nation did not exist at the time, plus today, the state of Palestine has been recognized by the UN to the 67 borders as a non-member state which has access to the International Tribunals.

And besides, stealing or destroying a people's means of survival, like food and water sources, is an act of genocide.

And that is exactly what the Aras were up to in seeking to illegally (they'd signed treaties) dam the Litani River in the early 60's.... It's good that you can admit that some Arab nations have tried to commit genocide against Israel, as they(AL states) have committed ethnic cleansing by cabal ...

Israel is not a person.

 

[Hoffstra]

Rocco, you're clearly a rational and thoughtful guy.

How can you accept this?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore;

The phrase "National Security Crimes" is a broad category.

Normally, in a national security crime

Where did you get that term. I have never heard it before.

BTW, occupations always have security problems. They come with the territory.

(COMMENT)

"National Security Crimes" (espionage, sabotage, subversion, treason, sedition, terrorism). Counterintelligence is the program that defends against National Security Crimes.

(3) The term “counterintelligence” means information gathered, and activities conducted, to protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted by or on behalf of foreign governments or elements thereof, foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or international terrorist activities.

Although there is no shortage of attention to each of the varied threats to national security, each of these threats (and the available government responses to them) are most often treated as independent subject matters. Yet there are significant connections between these apparently distinct criminal offenses, although little work has been done to draw such connections and develop a framework for studying national security criminal law as a unified discipline. This Article takes the first step towards building such a curriculum by integrating the criminological and legal aspects of crime in the national security realm. It examines four categories of crimes—treason, espionage, sabotage, and terrorism—and the applicable federal statutes available to prosecutors to combat these threats to national security. The Article then proceeds to draw upon interdisciplinary connections across these disparate crimes to examine why individuals engage in both violent and “white-collar” national security crime. Looking at tools ranging from wiretap authorizations to classification systems, the Article addresses what the Government can do to detect, prevent, prosecute and punish national security crimes.

* Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice, National Security Division, Counterterrorism Section; Adjunct Professor of International Criminal Law at the University of Maryland— College Park, Criminology and Criminal Justice; Adjunct Professor of Scholarly Writing in International Law at the George Washington University Law School. The opinions represented in this paper are those of the author and do not express the positions of the United States Government in any way.

SOURCE: Harvard Law --- In the Journal — November 2, 2012

Before I retired, it was my occupation.

Most Respectfully,
R

treason, espionage, sabotage, and terrorism—and the applicable federal statutes available to prosecutors to combat these threats to national security.

Don't these only apply inside the country and acts outside the country would apply to international law?

 

[pbel]

It is good to see that you understand the thousands of acres of privately-owned land in Arab League nations should never have been taken away from its Jewish owners without ay compensation, and that it has benefitted no one for the AL nations to have committed such theft.

I'm sure Sunni will join you in calling upon the AL nations to provide full compensation to the 950,000 or so citizens whose property and lands were seized by government decree simply because those citizens were Jews........

all Jews who fled the Arab/Muslim world after the Arab-Israel War should be able to return to their former lands immediately.

they should of course be able to sell those lands if they prefer to live in Israel, France, the USA, etc.

But yes, the Jews have a right to their lands back.

Agreed. But I just don't see how the Palestinians had anything to do with the international Politics that made them the sacrificial pawns of this game.

Why should they pay the price?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is good to see that you understand the thousands of acres of privately-owned land in Arab League nations should never have been taken away from its Jewish owners without ay compensation, and that it has benefitted no one for the AL nations to have committed such theft.

I'm sure Sunni will join you in calling upon the AL nations to provide full compensation to the 950,000 or so citizens whose property and lands were seized by government decree simply because those citizens were Jews........

all Jews who fled the Arab/Muslim world after the Arab-Israel War should be able to return to their former lands immediately.

they should of course be able to sell those lands if they prefer to live in Israel, France, the USA, etc.

But yes, the Jews have a right to their lands back.

Agreed. But I just don't see how the Palestinians had anything to do with the international Politics that made them the sacrificial pawns of this game.

Why should they pay the price?

I agree that all people have the right to return or at least be adequately compensated for their loss.

However, the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Jewish refugee problem. They are completely unrelated issues.

 

[Hoffstra]

Agreed. But I just don't see how the Palestinians had anything to do with the international Politics that made them the sacrificial pawns of this game.

Why should they pay the price?

Jews returning to Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Algeria, is between Israel and those countries.

The circumstances of the Jews leaving was different with each country.

This issue is unrelated to the Palestinians.

 

[RoccoR]

Coyote, et al,

I said understand it. I didn't say I completely agree with it. I think both sides have dirty hands.

Rocco, you are justifying what is in reality little more then theft. Consider this from the article:

In 1979, the WZO’s Settlement Division submitted a request for the cultivation of these lands “in light of the shortage of farmland in the Jordan Valley, a shortage that is preventing the expansion of existing communities and the establishment of new ones.” During the first government headed by Menachem Begin, the Ministerial Committee on Security Affairs authorized the cultivation of state lands or lands belonging to absentee owners.

In the wake of the committee’s decision, the Israel Defense Forces cleared the mines in this area. Plia Albeck, who directed the Civil Department of the State Prosecutor’s Office for 24 years and maintained close ties with rightist circles, issued a number of statements of professional opinion. In light of the statements she issued, the WZO was authorized to allocate some 75,000 dunams (18,750 acres) of land for farming purposes. Senior military officials, including then-GOC Central Command, Major General Amram Mitzna, approved the allocation of land for cultivation on condition that the farmers had served in the army and were permitted to bear firearms, and on condition that Palestinians would not farm the lands in their stead. It should be pointed out here that, despite the peace settlement Israel signed with Jordan in 1994, these guidelines were not reviewed and remain in effect to this day.

(COMMENT)

I assume that it is similar to the US version of the "Second Amendment to the United States Constitution" and the right to bear arms. It must be remembered that the Arab League has attacked the State of Israel more than once. The last sneak attack was Yom Kipper of '73. However since 1973, there have been more than 100 major terrorist attacks. While not every Arab Palestinian is hostile, there are still a significant number of them.

Why are they still in effect?

Why were they not reviewed?

The real reason, it seems to me, is not security - that may have been the original reason - over forty years ago - but more recently it seems to be a need for more farmland for the expansion of settler communities. Farmland that was not theirs Rocco.

When these things come to light, it simply adds fuel and substance the often-repeated accusations of land theft and that really is a legitimate grievance.

(COMMENT)

I do not know the grand strategy behind the settlement program. But I suspect that the settlements are a way for the Israelis to bring pressure on the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Coyote, et al,

I said understand it. I didn't say I completely agree with it. I think both sides have dirty hands.

Rocco, you are justifying what is in reality little more then theft. Consider this from the article:

In 1979, the WZO’s Settlement Division submitted a request for the cultivation of these lands “in light of the shortage of farmland in the Jordan Valley, a shortage that is preventing the expansion of existing communities and the establishment of new ones.” During the first government headed by Menachem Begin, the Ministerial Committee on Security Affairs authorized the cultivation of state lands or lands belonging to absentee owners.

In the wake of the committee’s decision, the Israel Defense Forces cleared the mines in this area. Plia Albeck, who directed the Civil Department of the State Prosecutor’s Office for 24 years and maintained close ties with rightist circles, issued a number of statements of professional opinion. In light of the statements she issued, the WZO was authorized to allocate some 75,000 dunams (18,750 acres) of land for farming purposes. Senior military officials, including then-GOC Central Command, Major General Amram Mitzna, approved the allocation of land for cultivation on condition that the farmers had served in the army and were permitted to bear firearms, and on condition that Palestinians would not farm the lands in their stead. It should be pointed out here that, despite the peace settlement Israel signed with Jordan in 1994, these guidelines were not reviewed and remain in effect to this day.

(COMMENT)

I assume that it is similar to the US version of the "Second Amendment to the United States Constitution" and the right to bear arms. It must be remembered that the Arab League has attacked the State of Israel more than once. The last sneak attack was Yom Kipper of '73. However since 1973, there have been more than 100 major terrorist attacks. While not every Arab Palestinian is hostile, there are still a significant number of them.

Why are they still in effect?

Why were they not reviewed?

The real reason, it seems to me, is not security - that may have been the original reason - over forty years ago - but more recently it seems to be a need for more farmland for the expansion of settler communities. Farmland that was not theirs Rocco.

When these things come to light, it simply adds fuel and substance the often-repeated accusations of land theft and that really is a legitimate grievance.

(COMMENT)

I do not know the grand strategy behind the settlement program. But I suspect that the settlements are a way for the Israelis to bring pressure on the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

It is theft, Rocco, just plain theft.

 

[abu afak]

...

I agree that all people have the right to return or at least be adequately compensated for their loss.

However, the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Jewish refugee problem. They are completely unrelated issues.

Pretty Comical.
The Anti-Cough-zionists think they have a winner.

1. Virtually No one has the 'Right of Return'.

NOT 2 million (now 5 million) Sudeten Germans.
NOT 10 Million Indians or Pakistanis from THEIR 1947 Partition.
NOT Sudanese refugees. (some got 'South Sudan' instead)
NOT Vietnamese boat people
etc
etc

2. Palestinians had Alot to do with their plight.

Irish Times
(Letters, p. 17 Cols 3 and 4. lettersed@irish-times.ie)
February 21, 2008
Israel and the Palestinians
Benny Morris
Israel News: Israel and the Palestinians - according to Benny Morris

Madam, - ISRAEL-HATERS are Fond of citing - and more often, Mis-citing - my work in support of their arguments. Let me offer some Corrections.

The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible "in some bizarre way"...for what befell them in 1948.
Their responsibility was very Direct and simple.
In Defiance of the will of the International community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181),
They launched Hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps Destroying that community.
But they Lost; and one of the Results was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.
[........]
Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of Victorious Arab invaders).
But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.
The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became "refugees" - and I put the term in inverted commas, as 2/3's of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another
and NOT from their country (which is the usual definition of a refugee) was Not a "racist crime"...
but the result of a national conflict and a war, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs themselves.

There was NO Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing". Plan Dalet (Plan D), of March 10th, 1948
(it is Open and Available for all to read in the IDF Archive...),
was the master plan of the Haganah - the Jewish military force that became the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) - to counter the expected pan-Arab assault on the emergent Jewish state.
That's what it explicitly states and that's what it was. And the invasion of the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq duly occurred, on May 15th.

It is true that Plan D gave the regional commanders carte blanche to occupy and garrison or expel and destroy the Arab villages along and behind the front lines and the anticipated Arab armies' invasion routes.
And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just assaulted the Jewish community),
viewing them as a potential fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic.

The Demonisation of Israel is largely based on Lies - much as the Demonisation of the Jews during the past 2,000 years has been based on Lies. And there is a Connection between the two.

[.......]

Whining Antisemites only demand war-with-impunity/no-lose for Arabs.
I suggest they look at a political Map of the world in 1900 and again in 2000.
Why is it only ONE TINY Change gets their Bigoted Goats?
"Theft" My ass. It's WAR.
Though even then Israel offered to return the conquered territories after the 1967 War.
Arabs Refused ('Three Nos', Khartoum Aug, 1967)

Revisionist Bigot Whining Losers.


EDIT: Note The NON-Rebuttal from PF Tinhead immediately below.
the usual 100% WASHOUT.
A juvenile wisecrack in the face of complete Evisceration.
You'd think after this amount of time in the section he'd know something.
Nope, just Cheerleading one side, Harassing the other.

EDIT 2: and the Comical small (non-refuting) sentence from Hoffstra just below that.

`

 

[P F Tinmore]

...

I agree that all people have the right to return or at least be adequately compensated for their loss.

However, the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Jewish refugee problem. They are completely unrelated issues.

Pretty Comical.
The Anti-Cough-zionists think they have a winner.

1. Virtually No one has the 'Right of Return'.

NOT 2 million (now 5 million) Sudeten Germans.
NOT 10 Million Indians or Pakistanis from Their 1947 Partition.
NOT Sudanese refugees to Sudan. (some got 'South Sudan' instead)
NOT Vietnamese boat people
etc
etc

2. Palestinians had Alot to do with their plight.

Irish Times
(Letters, p. 17 Cols 3 and 4. lettersed@irish-times.ie)
February 21, 2008
Israel and the Palestinians
Benny Morris
Israel News: Israel and the Palestinians - according to Benny Morris

Madam, - ISRAEL-HATERS are Fond of citing - and more often, Mis-citing - my work in support of their arguments. Let me offer some Corrections.

The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible "in some bizarre way"...for what befell them in 1948.
Their responsibility was very Direct and simple.
In Defiance of the will of the International community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181), They launched Hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps Destroying that community.
But they Lost; and one of the Results was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.
[........]
Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.
The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became "refugees" - and I put the term in inverted commas, as 2/3's of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and NOT from their country (which is the usual definition of a refugee) - was Not a "racist crime"... but the result of a national conflict and a war, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs themselves.

There was NO Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing". Plan Dalet (Plan D), of March 10th, 1948 (it is Open and Available for all to read in the IDF Archive and in various publications), was the master plan of the Haganah - the Jewish military force that became the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) - to counter the expected pan-Arab assault on the emergent Jewish state. That's what it explicitly states and that's what it was. And the invasion of the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq duly occurred, on May 15th.

It is true that Plan D gave the regional commanders carte blanche to occupy and garrison or expel and destroy the Arab villages along and behind the front lines and the anticipated Arab armies' invasion routes. And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic.

The Demonisation of Israel is largely based on Lies - much as the Demonisation of the Jews during the past 2,000 years has been based on Lies. And there is a Connection between the two.

[.......]

Whining Antisemites only demand war-with-impunity/no-lose for Arabs.
I suggest they look at a political Map of the world in 1900 and again in 2000.
Why is it only ONE TINY Change gets their Bigoted Goats?
"Theft" My ass. It's WAR.
Though even then Israel offered to return the conquered territories after the 1967 War.
Arabs Refused ('Three Nos', Khartoum Aug, 1967)

Revisionist Bigot Whining Losers.

`

You have Israeli propaganda down pat.

Good boy!

 

[Hoffstra]

The Anti-Cough-zionists think they have a winner.

1. Virtually No one has the 'Right of Return'.

NOT 2 million (now 5 million) Sudeten Germans.
`

all anti-Fascist Sudetens were allowed to stay in Czechoslovakia.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I subscribe to the whole man view; and the bigger - broader view.

It is theft, Rocco, just plain theft.

(COMMENT)

This is a Black'n'White perspective. And using that as a yardstick, that would make Palestinians are a terrorist supporting culture, with the farmer aiding and abetting an infiltrator.

As I said, the Palestinians have a number of grievances. But they are also guilty of many, many crimes, to include the instigation of this six decade long conflict.

Such Black'n'White perspectives are not productive.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I subscribe to the whole man view; and the bigger - broader view.

It is theft, Rocco, just plain theft.

(COMMENT)

This is a Black'n'White perspective. And using that as a yardstick, that would make Palestinians are a terrorist supporting culture, with the farmer aiding and abetting an infiltrator.

As I said, the Palestinians have a number of grievances. But they are also guilty of many, many crimes, to include the instigation of this six decade long conflict.

Such Black'n'White perspectives are not productive.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, isn't this the record occupation?

 

[docmauser1]

Indeed, isn't this the record occupation?

Indeed, that's what palistanians do, it's their money-making occupation, of course.

 

[Hoffstra]

This is a Black'n'White perspective. And using that as a yardstick, that would make Palestinians are a terrorist supporting culture, with the farmer aiding and abetting an infiltrator....

who says the accusation was true?

was there a trial?

 

[Coyote]

I do not know the grand strategy behind the settlement program. But I suspect that the settlements are a way for the Israelis to bring pressure on the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

I think that pressure is part of it - but there are two pressures involved here:

- putting pressure on the Palestinians in the form of "punishment" for "transgressions"
- relieving political pressure from settlers who feel they have a right to that land

Given that the article said: “in light of the shortage of farmland in the Jordan Valley, a shortage that is preventing the expansion of existing communities and the establishment of new ones.”

Which pressure do you think is at play here? Perhaps people (not necessarily you) should take an honest and unbiased look at this particular case - without trying to pile on all the typical crap to distract from this specific situation - and ask themselves, would this be considered land theft in any other situation?

 

[Lipush]

It saddens me greatly, that Jews can support this.

Its one thing to take land due to military necessity. This is legal under international law.

But to then go ahead and let other civilians farm the land, without paying any compensation to the landowners for the use of their land and water, is disgusting and beyond the pale.

Shame on the Jews and their support for this. Shame on them.

Yeah, we should support the Palestinians, instead.

Oh wait, they want us dead!

So maybe that's not such a great idea

 

[Lipush]

Israel steals Arab land, lets Jews farm it, and doesn't compensate the Arabs in any way.

And Israelis wonder why they are hated.

Israelis are hated for one reason and one reason only.

We breath.