Do you approve or disapprove of Joe Biden's performance on Afghanistan?

[JoeB131]

I believe in fighting terrorism and protecting United States Security. These things were being accomplished in Afghanistan at a very low cost to NATO countries. Having troops on the ground, a friendly government in Kabul, was vital to having good intelligence on Al Qaeda, ISIS and the Taliban terrorist element. NO, ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, CAN DEFEND HANDING AFGHANISTAN BACK TO THE TALIBAN, A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, AND CLAIM THAT IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO THE TERRORIST THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. To lose a friendly government, military force, as well as a place for your own military to gather intelligence on terrorist groups in Afghanistan, is beyond foolish!

The Forever War created more terrorists than it killed.

Before the Forever War, the Terrorists were limited to Afghanistan.

Now they pretty much run amok in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Yemen and Allah knows where else.

Here's a concept I want you to get your tiny little brain around....

One Man's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

When the Taliban (Muhajadin) and Bin Laden were fighting the Russians, Ronald Reagan called them Freedom Fighters. Of course, they hated western ways and feminism and modernity, but we called them Freedom fighters when they were tweaking the noses of people we didn't like.

Then these same assholes turned on us, and they became "Terrorists"...

To the Average Afghan, the Taliban aren't terrorists, they are freedom fighters that fought against the Russians and Americans.

Hey, funny thing, you never see the "Terrorists" attacking Japan. Why is that? Oh, yeah, Japan minds it's own fucking business

Let's start doing that for a change.

 

[U2Edge]

Here are the facts. The Afghan Quislings had a 4-1 advantage over the Taliban, and still hadn't managed to crush them even with all the superior American technology and support they were provided.


Jesus Christ, man, do you believe that? The reality was, the Taliban and Afghan forces had agreements not to fight each other... that's why they all gave up when we left.

The scam was awesome. One brother would go out to fight for the Taliban, the other would join the local military unit and collect a paycheck.




Um, yeah... and yet the Forever War continued.... Forever and ever and ever....




They never should have been over there are all... particularly after Karzai stole the 2009 election and put a lie to the whole "We were bringing them democracy" shit.

We never fucking learn. We didn't learn this lesson 50 years ago in Vietnam, we didn't learn this lesson 100 years ago in the Philippines.



Yes, just another 20 years, and they'd have been competant.



Hey, guy, here's a picture of me in 1990.... When I was a Supply Sergeant in the United States Army. My sister brought her kids to visit me. (I miss having hair and being thin). My MOS was 76Y and I reached the rank of Staff Sergeant.

View attachment 529917

I've forgotten more about military logistics than you'll probably ever know.



Uh, Germany and Japan were reduced to Rubble after WWII. Germany was outright dismembered. yet they still managed to get their shit together in less than a decade.




Again, I remember this kind of shit being said about Vietnam, about how the Vietcong were defeated in every engagement... Again, it's like people just never fucking learn.

The reason why Vietnam didn't turn into the Forever War was because when you draft an army to fight, eventually people actually start paying attention. The problem with the Forever War is that you rarely heard about it in the news after 2009 or so.



What good results? We spent 1.3 trillion and at the end of the day, we had an Afghan Army that dropped their weapons and ran despite having a 4-1 numerical advantage.



I'm not sure what your fascination with provincial capitals are. Controlling a city doesn't make a lot of difference when you don't control the land around it, which they clearly didn't.



Actually the Germans at Stalingrad put up more of a fight than the ARVN's did... and the Afghan National Army makes the ARVN's look like heroes.




Uh, huh... Let's continue the Forever War, because Haliburton was sucking in those big bucks.

Let's ignore the fact that the Forever War was destroying the Army as an institution. The same National Guard units being rotated in on multiple tours.... Enlistment standards being lowered to the point that some real mutants like Bowe Bergdahl and Chelsea Manning were being enlisted because they couldn't hit manpower goals.

AGAIN, LOOK AT THE FACTS OF THE PAST SIX YEARS:

Afghanistan Total Districts and Provincial Capitals:
421 Districts
34 Provincial Capitals

November 28, 2017
Taliban controlled districts: 73
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 0

April 13, 2021
Taliban controlled districts: 77
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 0

April 14, 2021
BIDEN announces complete withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan by September 2021, regardless of conditions on the ground.

August 16, 2021
Taliban controlled districts: 405
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 32


As to your claim of a 4 to 1 advantage for Afghan forces, the Taliban were often not fighting a conventional battle. But when they did, they were crushed by the Afghan forces time and again from 2015 through 2020. The Taliban had a safe haven in Pakistan which helped the survive. Afghanistan is a large country, with many remote areas where it is easy to hide. The Afghan military were still developing their capabilities, but still did not have a military/police force large enough to occupy and secure all 421 Districts. Naturally, the Taliban exploited these advantages to run and hide in remote areas or run across the border into Pakistan. But the fact is, as the statistics above show, the TALIBAN remained on the outskirts of Afghan Society. The Afghan military was holding their own, over 50,000 sacrificed their lives to do that, which for some reason you simply DISMISS.

Well, if the Taliban were really running some secret scam with the Afghan military from 2015 through 2020, why did the lose ALL the battles with heavier casualties than the Afghan military. Why weren't the Taliban able to hold Kunduz when they took in 2015? If the Taliban were so much better than the Afghan Army, how the hell did the Afghan military succeed in retaking Kunduz in 2015? Your ignoring the battles there were fought and lost by the Taliban year after year. The fact is, the years from 2015-2020 DON'T SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS OR THEORY'S ABOUT THE AFGHAN MIILTARY OR THE SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN.


The term FOREVER WAR, is far left liberal creation. The reality is that it does not exist. The United States and NATO were not engaged in the same type of conflict from 2015 to 2020 that they had been in earlier years of the intervention in Afghanistan. THINGS HAD CHANGED! But you ignore that because it does fit the false narrative your promoting.


Logistics matter, and the United States and NATO were providing most of the logistical support for the Afghan military. When that is withdrawn, then it does not matter how good the troops are, because you can't fight with equipment that has broken down, no ammo, no fuel and limited or no food. Afghanistan is a large country and it was very difficult for the United States and NATO to keep many areas supplied. The Afghan military was not ready to do this on their own, and its why their forces were not able to keep up the fight. They did not have efficient resupply of needed ammo, fuel, food, and other things. No military force in the world survives logistical problems like that.


The Afghan military did not even exist in 2001. They came a long way from where they had been in the years from 2001 to 2010, when they were involved in less than 25% of the fighting. By 2015, they had taken over 99% of the fighting. What they were still missing was their own logistical capability, and their casualty levels were too high. Besides those two things though, they were getting the job done and holding all the same areas that United States and NATO forces had held before them.

The United States has only ever had a draft for 36 years of its history, yet for most of the years it had a draft, it was fighting wars, and over 90% of all U.S. military casualties took place when there was a draft. So the idea that somehow the DRAFT stops wars or makes them less likely is FALSE! That is what the history shows!


The Afghan military fought hard from 2015 through 2020 when they were supplied and supported. They did 99% of the ground fighting in those years and suffered over 50,000 deaths when you include policemen that were killed. Naturally, when the United States pulled out the logistical capacity for the Afghan military, it was only a matter of time before Afghan units ran out of supplies and were faced with choices of being massacred without ammo or saving themselves. Most military forces don't continue to fight or function when they DON'T HAVE ammo, fuel, and other supplies.

Again, your obsessed with what happened the past four months, but completely ignore all the data from the past six years on the Afghan military. You ignore the fact that the Afghan military was reliant on U.S. and NATO forces for logistics, and would not be able to function without that continued support. JOE BIDEN pulled the plug in April and you CLEARLY see the results in the statistics I posted at the TOP! You had an Afghan military that was fighting from 2015 through 2020 and succeeding in holding back the Taliban and protecting most of the Afghan population. YOU HAVE A SUDDEN CHANGE AFTER JOE BIDEN PULLS THE PLUG IN APRIL 2021. Its pretty to easy to see what happened, but your not going to see any of that if your blindly holding on to a narrow and uninformed view of the Afghan military. A View that only looks at part of what happened the past few weeks, looks at NOTHING from the past 6 years, and draws all the wrong conclusions.


Finally, the United States military has 1.4 million active duty personal, 2.2 million when you include National Guard and Reserves. There are 58 United States Army, United States Army National Guard Combat Brigades. The United States Marine Corp has the equivalent of 12 Brigades.

Since 2015, there was only one combat brigade equivalent stationed in Afghanistan. The annual total U.S force number in Afghanistan from 2015 to 2021 NEVER exceeded 15,000. The vast majority of U.S. military personal that have enlisted since 2012, HAVE NEVER once been deployed to Afghanistan. IT WAS A LIGHT DEPLOYMENT and it was not putting ANY stress on the military. The United States today has a higher percentage of its combat brigades sitting at home on U.S soil than at any time since the 1930s!

Again, Afghanistan since 2015 was a LOW COST, small deployment, that was protecting the United States, keeping Afghanistan from being a base for international terrorism. It was not putting any stress on the Military, the country, the economy etc. It was NOT taking away from other U.S. missions in Europe or East Asia guarding the Russians, Chinese, North Koreans etc. These are the FACTS! JOE BIDEN, Antony Blinkin, and Jake Sullivan are essentially lying when they say otherwise!

 

[U2Edge]

The Forever War created more terrorists than it killed.

Before the Forever War, the Terrorists were limited to Afghanistan.

Now they pretty much run amok in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Yemen and Allah knows where else.

Here's a concept I want you to get your tiny little brain around....

One Man's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

When the Taliban (Muhajadin) and Bin Laden were fighting the Russians, Ronald Reagan called them Freedom Fighters. Of course, they hated western ways and feminism and modernity, but we called them Freedom fighters when they were tweaking the noses of people we didn't like.

Then these same assholes turned on us, and they became "Terrorists"...

View attachment 529925

To the Average Afghan, the Taliban aren't terrorists, they are freedom fighters that fought against the Russians and Americans.

Hey, funny thing, you never see the "Terrorists" attacking Japan. Why is that? Oh, yeah, Japan minds it's own fucking business

Let's start doing that for a change.

There is NO such thing as the FOREVER WAR. A concept invented by far left liberals that fits on a bumper sticker.

The history of terrorism started long before 9/11 and terrorist were never just isolated to Afghanistan. But in Afghanistan in the 1990s, terrorist found a state that was willing to support them instead of working with the international community to hunt them down. Its from this terrorist save haven that multiple international terrorist were trained, operations were planned and executed. 9/11, worst terrorist attack on the United States was the result.

Taliban government replaced by Afghan government friendly to the United States and willing to go after terrorist. RESULT, no 9/11's since that time. Its a no brainer that its better to have a friendly government in Afghanistan willing to work with you in tracking and finding terrorist, than to allow a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION like the TALIBAN to be running Afghanistan.

TALIBAN CONTROLLED AFGHANISTAN:
1. A group that actively engages in terrorism worldwide
2. Will not work with countries to end terrorism.
3. Will not allow foreign troops and security services on their territory to help track terrorist.

AFGHANISTAN GOVERNMENT OF THE PAST 20 YEARS:
1. An ally in fighting terrorism
2. Helps to provide key intelligence on terrorist or any other actors who may be within their borders.
3. Works to track such terrorist down, capture or kill them.
4. Will allow foreign troops and other security services on their territory to help track and find terrorist.

Its obvious why the Afghan Government of the past 20 years is best for U.S. and international security when compared to the TALIBAN. But JOE BIDEN and yourself choose the TALIBAN.


ISIS has been crushed in Syria. There is only one province in Syria that has any potential terrorist individuals and they are isolated to that province. Iraq crushed most of ISIS long ago. In both Syria and Iraq, you have governments that are working to track, kill and capture the terrorist. The United States, used to have that in Afghanistan. Not anymore thanks to JOE BIDEN!


The Taliban were created in Pakistan in 1994. They had no involvement in the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Yes there are members of the Taliban that had fought in the war against Russia, but most members of the Taliban today or even in the 1990s had never been involved in that. Most Afghans who fought in the war against Soviet occupation were never apart of any military organization in the 1990s or beyond. Some did become apart of the North Alliance, other groups, and yes, some did become apart of the Taliban. But the majority that served in the 1980s were not apart of any militia or group by the late 1990s or into the 00s.

Yes, the United States has supported and worked with people that later became enemies. JOSEPH STALIN's SOVIET UNION being the most significant one, but also some of the Chinese that joined the Communist after World War II. Does not mean aiding them at the time, during World War II, was the wrong thing to have done. These are far better and clearer examples that U.S. support for the Mujahadeen in the 1980s in Afghanistan that later split up and only a small number of which would later become apart of the Taliban. Sorry, that it messes with the story your trying to create, but reality is that things were far more complex than you describe them.

 

[JoeB131]

AGAIN, LOOK AT THE FACTS OF THE PAST SIX YEARS:

That sounds like the kind of smoke Westmoreland blew up the ass of the American People, and then Tet happened and even Conkrite realized it was a lie.

As to your claim of a 4 to 1 advantage for Afghan forces, the Taliban were often not fighting a conventional battle. But when they did, they were crushed by the Afghan forces time and again from 2015 through 2020. The Taliban had a safe haven in Pakistan which helped the survive. Afghanistan is a large country, with many remote areas where it is easy to hide. The Afghan military were still developing their capabilities, but still did not have a military/police force large enough to occupy and secure all 421 Districts. Naturally, the Taliban exploited these advantages to run and hide in remote areas or run across the border into Pakistan. But the fact is, as the statistics above show, the TALIBAN remained on the outskirts of Afghan Society. The Afghan military was holding their own, over 50,000 sacrificed their lives to do that, which for some reason you simply DISMISS.

You see, here's the problem with that... when I hear "they were crushed", that means I don't expect to hear from them again. The problem with the Forever War is that "We crushed them really good, and next year, we'll crush them again!!!" It never fucking ends.

Well, if the Taliban were really running some secret scam with the Afghan military from 2015 through 2020, why did the lose ALL the battles with heavier casualties than the Afghan military. Why weren't the Taliban able to hold Kunduz when they took in 2015? If the Taliban were so much better than the Afghan Army, how the hell did the Afghan military succeed in retaking Kunduz in 2015? Your ignoring the battles there were fought and lost by the Taliban year after year. The fact is, the years from 2015-2020 DON'T SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS OR THEORY'S ABOUT THE AFGHAN MIILTARY OR THE SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN.

No, but the year 2021 does... 20 years of the Forever War, and the Taliban was still a thing....

As soon as America stopped cutting checks, your beloved Afghan Army dropped their weapons or switched sides. Heck, even the French put up a better performance in 1940!

The term FOREVER WAR, is far left liberal creation. The reality is that it does not exist. The United States and NATO were not engaged in the same type of conflict from 2015 to 2020 that they had been in earlier years of the intervention in Afghanistan. THINGS HAD CHANGED! But you ignore that because it does fit the false narrative your promoting.

We were in the Forever War for 20 years, guy. And the Afghan Army was a joke...

Here's what a Marine officer who was there said.

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/readers-opinion/guest-commentary/article253641358.html

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

The truth is that the Afghan National Security Forces was a jobs program for Afghans, propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars — a military jobs program populated by nonmilitary people or “paper” forces (that didn’t really exist) and a bevy of elites grabbing what they could when they could.

I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.

So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.

Logistics matter, and the United States and NATO were providing most of the logistical support for the Afghan military. When that is withdrawn, then it does not matter how good the troops are, because you can't fight with equipment that has broken down, no ammo, no fuel and limited or no food. Afghanistan is a large country and it was very difficult for the United States and NATO to keep many areas supplied. The Afghan military was not ready to do this on their own, and its why their forces were not able to keep up the fight. They did not have efficient resupply of needed ammo, fuel, food, and other things. No military force in the world survives logistical problems like that.

The Tabilban were able to keep supplied without this huge network expending billions of dollars.

If they weren't ready to do this after 20 years, they were never going to be ready.

The Afghan military did not even exist in 2001. They came a long way from where they had been in the years from 2001 to 2010, when they were involved in less than 25% of the fighting. By 2015, they had taken over 99% of the fighting. What they were still missing was their own logistical capability, and their casualty levels were too high. Besides those two things though, they were getting the job done and holding all the same areas that United States and NATO forces had held before them.

Except they weren't "getting the job done". The Taliban still existed.

The United States has only ever had a draft for 36 years of its history, yet for most of the years it had a draft, it was fighting wars, and over 90% of all U.S. military casualties took place when there was a draft. So the idea that somehow the DRAFT stops wars or makes them less likely is FALSE! That is what the history shows!

Drafts do not make wars less likely... (Although we had a draft from WWI to Vietnam, more than 36 years). They do, however, give everyone skin in the game, so that you don't have Haliburton and KBR looting the treasury with Forever Wars because most people don't have a kid in the military.

Now, I have this great plan for peace. Not only do we have a draft, but we put the kids of the politicians and wealthy in an elite airborne unit that will be the first deployed to any war zone. "Peace in our Time".

Finally, the United States military has 1.4 million active duty personal, 2.2 million when you include National Guard and Reserves. There are 58 United States Army, United States Army National Guard Combat Brigades. The United States Marine Corp has the equivalent of 12 Brigades.

Yes, it's a lot smaller than it was when I was in from 1981 to 1992... but we keep thinking we can fight wars all over the world with such a degraded force. Send in the misfit brigade of Bergdahl and Manning, that will do it. And that was the problem with the Forever War.... no one really wanted to sign their kid up for it, and after a certain point, they really lowered the standards, taking criminals, misfits and people who normally would have washed out of boot camp. Nidal Hassan could pass out business cards saying "Soldier of Allah" and no one thought, "Hey, maybe we should get rid of this guy! You know, and not promote him to Major."

Again, Afghanistan since 2015 was a LOW COST, small deployment, that was protecting the United States, keeping Afghanistan from being a base for international terrorism. It was not putting any stress on the Military, the country, the economy etc. It was NOT taking away from other U.S. missions in Europe or East Asia guarding the Russians, Chinese, North Koreans etc. These are the FACTS! JOE BIDEN, Antony Blinkin, and Jake Sullivan are essentially lying when they say otherwise!

Afghanistan was a huge sinkhole that was burning money. We could have taken a big pile of money and burned it on the South Lawn of the White House and had the same effect... with less frustration.

 

[JoeB131]

There is NO such thing as the FOREVER WAR. A concept invented by far left liberals that fits on a bumper sticker.

The history of terrorism started long before 9/11 and terrorist were never just isolated to Afghanistan. But in Afghanistan in the 1990s, terrorist found a state that was willing to support them instead of working with the international community to hunt them down. Its from this terrorist save haven that multiple international terrorist were trained, operations were planned and executed. 9/11, worst terrorist attack on the United States was the result.

Naw, man, the worst terrorist attack on the US happened because the airlines were too fucking cheap to institute real security measures. That's why we had decades of airline hijackings, but they were fine with it because they paid the terrorists some money and they let the airliners go.

Then some bright fellow figured out, "Hey, you know, we could fly those planes into buildings!"

Of course won't ever happen again, because the cockpit doors are steel reinforced now, which is what they should have done in the first place.

We didn't need to fight a FOREVER WAR(TM) to fix that problem.

aliban government replaced by Afghan government friendly to the United States and willing to go after terrorist. RESULT, no 9/11's since that time. Its a no brainer that its better to have a friendly government in Afghanistan willing to work with you in tracking and finding terrorist, than to allow a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION like the TALIBAN to be running Afghanistan.

I'm sure they were telling us whatever we wanted to hear, but the reality... Al Qaeda dispersed into the rest of the Islamic world because Afghanistan was a miserable place they really didn't want to be to start with. We didn't catch up with Bin Laden in Afghanistan, we caught up with him in Pakistan wanking off to Porn.

ISIS has been crushed in Syria. There is only one province in Syria that has any potential terrorist individuals and they are isolated to that province. Iraq crushed most of ISIS long ago. In both Syria and Iraq, you have governments that are working to track, kill and capture the terrorist. The United States, used to have that in Afghanistan. Not anymore thanks to JOE BIDEN!

Okay, let's look at that one. ISIS was crushed in Syria by THE IRANIAN QUDS FORCE. So it's awesome, instead of having a bunch of disorganized thugs running around the desert, we have Iran completely in control of Iraq and Syria and their terrorists right on the border with the Zionist Entity. (And don't worry, right after the War Profiteers, the other big promoter of the FOREVER WAR(TM) are the freaking Zionists.)

The Taliban were created in Pakistan in 1994. They had no involvement in the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Yes there are members of the Taliban that had fought in the war against Russia, but most members of the Taliban today or even in the 1990s had never been involved in that. Most Afghans who fought in the war against Soviet occupation were never apart of any military organization in the 1990s or beyond. Some did become apart of the North Alliance, other groups, and yes, some did become apart of the Taliban. But the majority that served in the 1980s were not apart of any militia or group by the late 1990s or into the 00s.

No, man, you have a point. Most of the religious fanatics we armed to fight the Russians in the FOREVER WAR(TM) aren't around anymore, but they keep fighting, don't they? Mullah Omar, who was the leader of the Taliban in 2001, did fight the Soviets. So did a lot of the leaders.

The crazy thing is insinuating ourselves in a 42 year long civil war and thinking we can back the right group of religious fanatics who won't turn on us later.

Yes, the United States has supported and worked with people that later became enemies. JOSEPH STALIN's SOVIET UNION being the most significant one, but also some of the Chinese that joined the Communist after World War II. Does not mean aiding them at the time, during World War II, was the wrong thing to have done. These are far better and clearer examples that U.S. support for the Mujahadeen in the 1980s in Afghanistan that later split up and only a small number of which would later become apart of the Taliban. Sorry, that it messes with the story your trying to create, but reality is that things were far more complex than you describe them.

Stalin was fighting Hitler before we were... So probably not a great example.

Arming the Muhajadin was beyond stupid. At the same time we were arming THOSE religion fanatics, religious fanatics in Iran were causing us all sorts of problems. The ironic thing is that we kept thinking we can just find the right religious fanatic who won't turn on us later, the Muhajadin, Bin Lade, Saddam, the Libyan Rebels who attacked Benghazi. It's like we never fucking learn.

Here's a crazy idea. Instead of fighting the FOREVER WAR(TM), let's do something as breathetakingly rational as evaluating if there is a compelling national interest in us getting involved in other people's conflicts. It would mean lot letting Exxon, AIPAC and Halliburton dictate policies, which I know would be a big stretch.

 

[j-mac]

And they were warned months ago that Afghanistan was no longer safe.

Honestly, the lesson here should be that we should stop fighting wars because the "contractors and corporations" are making a shitload of money. NATO got the hell out of Afghanistan in 2014. But not us. Haliburton and KBR were making too much money.

Show us the earliest cable that directed that all support personnel depart Afghanistan…

 

[JoeB131]

Show us the earliest cable that directed that all support personnel depart Afghanistan…

Afghanistan Travel Advisory

travel.state.gov

 

[j-mac]

Afghanistan Travel Advisory

travel.state.gov

That’s for travelers, and vacationers as of July 2021….NOT what I asked for….you fail.

 

[skews13]

As Reagan said, never negotiate with terrorists. I guess Biden never listened to Reagan.

Except when he negotiated with terrorists.

And sold missiles to Iran.

 

[skews13]

Do you approve or disapprove of Joe Biden's performance on Afghanistan?​

DISAPPROVE!

Approve.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

At the end of the day 81mil trusted Biden with decisions such as this. They only have themselves to blame. #Buyers Remorse

 

[U2Edge]

That sounds like the kind of smoke Westmoreland blew up the ass of the American People, and then Tet happened and even Conkrite realized it was a lie.



You see, here's the problem with that... when I hear "they were crushed", that means I don't expect to hear from them again. The problem with the Forever War is that "We crushed them really good, and next year, we'll crush them again!!!" It never fucking ends.


No, but the year 2021 does... 20 years of the Forever War, and the Taliban was still a thing....

As soon as America stopped cutting checks, your beloved Afghan Army dropped their weapons or switched sides. Heck, even the French put up a better performance in 1940!




We were in the Forever War for 20 years, guy. And the Afghan Army was a joke...

Here's what a Marine officer who was there said.

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/readers-opinion/guest-commentary/article253641358.html

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

The truth is that the Afghan National Security Forces was a jobs program for Afghans, propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars — a military jobs program populated by nonmilitary people or “paper” forces (that didn’t really exist) and a bevy of elites grabbing what they could when they could.

I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.

So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.



The Tabilban were able to keep supplied without this huge network expending billions of dollars.

If they weren't ready to do this after 20 years, they were never going to be ready.




Except they weren't "getting the job done". The Taliban still existed.


Drafts do not make wars less likely... (Although we had a draft from WWI to Vietnam, more than 36 years). They do, however, give everyone skin in the game, so that you don't have Haliburton and KBR looting the treasury with Forever Wars because most people don't have a kid in the military.

Now, I have this great plan for peace. Not only do we have a draft, but we put the kids of the politicians and wealthy in an elite airborne unit that will be the first deployed to any war zone. "Peace in our Time".




Yes, it's a lot smaller than it was when I was in from 1981 to 1992... but we keep thinking we can fight wars all over the world with such a degraded force. Send in the misfit brigade of Bergdahl and Manning, that will do it. And that was the problem with the Forever War.... no one really wanted to sign their kid up for it, and after a certain point, they really lowered the standards, taking criminals, misfits and people who normally would have washed out of boot camp. Nidal Hassan could pass out business cards saying "Soldier of Allah" and no one thought, "Hey, maybe we should get rid of this guy! You know, and not promote him to Major."




Afghanistan was a huge sinkhole that was burning money. We could have taken a big pile of money and burned it on the South Lawn of the White House and had the same effect... with less frustration.

Afghanistan Total Districts and Provincial Capitals:
421 Districts
34 Provincial Capitals

November 28, 2017
Taliban controlled districts: 73
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 0

April 13, 2021
Taliban controlled districts: 77
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 0

April 14, 2021
BIDEN announces complete withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan by September 2021, regardless of conditions on the ground.

August 16, 2021
Taliban controlled districts: 405
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 32

The above are basic statistical facts. All of it checked with U.S. outposts in various parts of Afghanistan and other methods of surveillance and human intelligence. Western media, Western NGO's also working in the provinces, also, confirm these totals at those times.

Making up a some joke about Vietnam does not change the factual reality of it.

You may not ever completely end an insurgency or for that matter, any sort of criminal activity. Its how you manage it that matters, and the United States and NATO had an excellent system in place for managing the problems coming from Afghanistan that endangered the United States and the world.

The Taliban still existed in 2021, but it does not follow that you should then abandon the Afghanistan to them, when they are hiding in the most remote regions of the country and across the border in Pakistan UNABLE to advance any further than that. That is just absurd and puts the United States and the rest of the world in greater danger from terrorism.

Most military forces collapse when they run out of ammo, fuel, food, other supplies etc. JOE BIDEN took those things away from the Afghan military with his sudden and hasty withdrawal. It was also Donald Trump the previous year negotiating with the Taliban and getting the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban/Al Qaeda prisoners. In addition, cutting the Afghan government out of talks had a negative psychological effect on the Afghan government and military. This is a tragedy inflicted by the actions taken in the last half of the Trump administration but more specifically BIDEN's actions this spring.


The Afghan military was doing just fine until JOE BIDEN pulled the plug. Its chief problems were the high casualty rate they were taking per year, and that they did not yet have a logistical support system in place to take care of themselves absent NATO. Their Air Force was tiny compared to what the United States and NATO had in country, and it fell apart when NATO withdrew the contractors who were helping maintain the planes for the Afghan Air Force. The fact is, the Afghan Army did not lose any ground, when they replaced most of the 130,000 United States and NATO troops that were in the field from 2010-2012. The above statistics at the top show they held back the Taliban consistently, until JOE BIDEN pulled the plug.

The Taliban only operate with what they can carry on their back primarily. Its an insurgency, and they don't rely on large weapon systems. You can't effectively run an insurgency that requires a large logistical tail, because it would be to vulnerable to disruption. The Taliban spend much of their time hiding, either among the population or in remote areas. Still, they do become more vulnerable when they come out to fight and starting this spring, they were able to operate more freely in the open with most of U.S. and NATO airpower out of the way. The Afghan military was suddenly forced to adjust to this environment along with shortages in supplies key to being able to function in the field at all.

The Afghan military was progressing and getting better. What they did from 2015 to 2020, they could not have done years earlier. But by 2015, their training and experienced had brought them to the point that they were able to replace U.S. and NATO combat Battalions in the field. That was a huge improvement over previous years when the Afghan military was typically not ready to send large units into combat and be able to hold up. Even when they slipped up in 2015 and 2016 with the provincial capital of Kunduz, they were able to regroup and retake the city from the Taliban after a few weeks. For some reason, you just ignore these facts. You can't make an accurate assessment of what happened or what needs to be done when you do that.


As for the Draft by the Federal Government, it only existed in the United States in the following years, 1863, 1864, 1865, 1917, 1918, September 1940 through June 30, 1973. THERE WAS NO MILITARY DRAFT FROM 1919 THROUGH1939!
The first peace time draft was started in September 1940, and continued through World War II, Korean War, and Vietnam war as well as the intervening periods between those wars. So actually about 38 years to be correct.

Also, a draft DOES NOT give everyone skin in the game unless it involves the entire population. Even in World War II, more than half of military age males, 18-44, did not serve in the military.

Even if you doubled the size of the current military from 1.4 million to 2.8 million, its likely you could achieve those numbers with a volunteer system given the size of the population. In 1980, the All Volunteer military had 2.2 million from a population of only 225 million. Today the U.S. population is 335 million. Also the Draft military had a bad record back in 1971, which why most in the military wanted to go with the all Volunteer system. The summer of 1971 in Vietnam saw wide insubordination and over 750 incidences of fragging attempts to kill officers. Drafting people that are in some circumstances more of a threat to the military than the enemy is foolish. This an many other reasons ended it.

A military draft is used only when it becomes a necessity in order to keep up military strength in the field. It was never a form of social engineering to keep political leaders or the population in line or to follow some political philosophy about war and intervention. That is just a fantasy of isolationist conservatives or far left liberal pacifist. You can't put every single adult into the military because the country would no longer be able to function. Even with the Israeli military that reportedly requires everyone to serve(although in reality only 50% do), the country could only function for maybe 12 weeks at most at full mobilization.

 

[Circe]

As Reagan said, never negotiate with terrorists. I guess Biden never listened to Reagan.

It doesn't really seem likely!

 

[Circe]

There is NO such thing as the FOREVER WAR. A concept invented by far left liberals that fits on a bumper sticker.

The history of terrorism started long before 9/11 and terrorist were never just isolated to Afghanistan. But in Afghanistan in the 1990s, terrorist found a state that was willing to support them instead of working with the international community to hunt them down. Its from this terrorist save haven that multiple international terrorist were trained, operations were planned and executed. 9/11, worst terrorist attack on the United States was the result.

Taliban government replaced by Afghan government friendly to the United States and willing to go after terrorist. RESULT, no 9/11's since that time. Its a no brainer that its better to have a friendly government in Afghanistan willing to work with you in tracking and finding terrorist, than to allow a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION like the TALIBAN to be running Afghanistan.

TALIBAN CONTROLLED AFGHANISTAN:
1. A group that actively engages in terrorism worldwide
2. Will not work with countries to end terrorism.
3. Will not allow foreign troops and security services on their territory to help track terrorist.

AFGHANISTAN GOVERNMENT OF THE PAST 20 YEARS:
1. An ally in fighting terrorism
2. Helps to provide key intelligence on terrorist or any other actors who may be within their borders.
3. Works to track such terrorist down, capture or kill them.
4. Will allow foreign troops and other security services on their territory to help track and find terrorist.

Its obvious why the Afghan Government of the past 20 years is best for U.S. and international security when compared to the TALIBAN. But JOE BIDEN and yourself choose the TALIBAN.


ISIS has been crushed in Syria. There is only one province in Syria that has any potential terrorist individuals and they are isolated to that province. Iraq crushed most of ISIS long ago. In both Syria and Iraq, you have governments that are working to track, kill and capture the terrorist. The United States, used to have that in Afghanistan. Not anymore thanks to JOE BIDEN!


The Taliban were created in Pakistan in 1994. They had no involvement in the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Yes there are members of the Taliban that had fought in the war against Russia, but most members of the Taliban today or even in the 1990s had never been involved in that. Most Afghans who fought in the war against Soviet occupation were never apart of any military organization in the 1990s or beyond. Some did become apart of the North Alliance, other groups, and yes, some did become apart of the Taliban. But the majority that served in the 1980s were not apart of any militia or group by the late 1990s or into the 00s.

Yes, the United States has supported and worked with people that later became enemies. JOSEPH STALIN's SOVIET UNION being the most significant one, but also some of the Chinese that joined the Communist after World War II. Does not mean aiding them at the time, during World War II, was the wrong thing to have done. These are far better and clearer examples that U.S. support for the Mujahadeen in the 1980s in Afghanistan that later split up and only a small number of which would later become apart of the Taliban. Sorry, that it messes with the story your trying to create, but reality is that things were far more complex than you describe them.

Wrong-o -----
Afghanistan was definitely the Forever War (It's the title of an old scifi book by John Haldeman, that's how it started being said). America refuses to make war, so of course we can't win against any party that is willing to make war. When China decides to take over Taiwan, believe me, we'd better just shut up and smile, because we sure can't fight them.

The only way to win against the Taliban, or the Nazis, or the Japs, is to burn and bomb their cities till there aren't any cities and everyone in them is dead, and kill all the men. All the men. Then, and only then, you can hope to remake their government, unless it's a theocracy, which of course the Taliban is. So it's hopeless even then. This is actually how war works, and how we won on two fronts last time, and how anyone who won wars, such as the Romans who killed millions, by hand, expanded their empire: they killed off anyone causing a problem. That is what war is FOR.

The left refuses to do any of this because it's not "modren" so everyone can win wars against us and we will never win another war. This started in Vietnam: when you want to be bestest wittle friensies instead of enemies with the people you've invaded, they will win and you will lose. We don't and we can't fight anymore, too divided and too antiwar. So the Taliban are driving us out and that's just how it is. Any ragtag bunch can and will drive us out of anywhere they want. Look at Iraq, same deal.

That was quite a sudden terminal decline we spun into; it's the fault of the Left, of course.

 

[U2Edge]

Naw, man, the worst terrorist attack on the US happened because the airlines were too fucking cheap to institute real security measures. That's why we had decades of airline hijackings, but they were fine with it because they paid the terrorists some money and they let the airliners go.

Then some bright fellow figured out, "Hey, you know, we could fly those planes into buildings!"

Of course won't ever happen again, because the cockpit doors are steel reinforced now, which is what they should have done in the first place.

We didn't need to fight a FOREVER WAR(TM) to fix that problem.

View attachment 530080




I'm sure they were telling us whatever we wanted to hear, but the reality... Al Qaeda dispersed into the rest of the Islamic world because Afghanistan was a miserable place they really didn't want to be to start with. We didn't catch up with Bin Laden in Afghanistan, we caught up with him in Pakistan wanking off to Porn.







Okay, let's look at that one. ISIS was crushed in Syria by THE IRANIAN QUDS FORCE. So it's awesome, instead of having a bunch of disorganized thugs running around the desert, we have Iran completely in control of Iraq and Syria and their terrorists right on the border with the Zionist Entity. (And don't worry, right after the War Profiteers, the other big promoter of the FOREVER WAR(TM) are the freaking Zionists.)



No, man, you have a point. Most of the religious fanatics we armed to fight the Russians in the FOREVER WAR(TM) aren't around anymore, but they keep fighting, don't they? Mullah Omar, who was the leader of the Taliban in 2001, did fight the Soviets. So did a lot of the leaders.

The crazy thing is insinuating ourselves in a 42 year long civil war and thinking we can back the right group of religious fanatics who won't turn on us later.




Stalin was fighting Hitler before we were... So probably not a great example.

Arming the Muhajadin was beyond stupid. At the same time we were arming THOSE religion fanatics, religious fanatics in Iran were causing us all sorts of problems. The ironic thing is that we kept thinking we can just find the right religious fanatic who won't turn on us later, the Muhajadin, Bin Lade, Saddam, the Libyan Rebels who attacked Benghazi. It's like we never fucking learn.

Here's a crazy idea. Instead of fighting the FOREVER WAR(TM), let's do something as breathetakingly rational as evaluating if there is a compelling national interest in us getting involved in other people's conflicts. It would mean lot letting Exxon, AIPAC and Halliburton dictate policies, which I know would be a big stretch.

Terrorist have many ways of attacking individuals, groups, cities, countries etc. If you believe that you could solve terrorism by keeping the cockpit door locked, you need to educate yourself about the history of terrorism.

Any place where a government or entity supports terrorist or there is no government or entity to check terrorist or other criminal activity are good places for terrorist to base themselves. Its easier for them to avoid interference in such places.

The Iran Quds force is a small force that played a minor role in Syria, virtually no role in Iraq except for supplies and training of certain Shia Militias. ISIS itself was primarily crushed by the United States supporting the Kurds. Most of ISIS was based in Northeastern Syria, the Syrian military Hezbollah, Iranian Quds force, and from 2015 on, the Russians, concentrated primarily on NON-ISIS insurgents which formed the bulk of the insurgency against the ASSAD regime.

In Iraq, ISIS was defeated primarily by the U.S. trained Iraqi military with support of the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Army and Marine Artillery stationed on the ground. The Shia militia's played a more limited role operating far from their local areas in southern Iraq. There were NO Iranian military or Quds units stationed in Iraq nor are there any today. There are NATO and U.S. military units stationed in Iraq though.

Again, the most support the United States ever offered another country was JOSEPH STALIN's SOVIET UNION in World War II. It was necessary in order to win the war, especially at a lower costs. The United States supports lots of people around the world, probably one of the greatest strengths the United States has is its huge network of allied countries around the world. U.S. support for the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan was limited, and most Mujahadeen did not join Al Qaeda or the Taliban in later years. That is just the spin story that primarily liberals like to make. Yes, Bin Ladin and Mullah Omar later became enemies of the United States, but Bin Ladin and Mullah Omar were not the entire Mujahadeen in the 1980s. SADDAM's Iraq got most of its support from the Soviet Union, one of the largest client states of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union had thousands of military advisors on the ground in Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war. Most of what the United States gave to Iraq in the 1980s consisted of Trucks, Transport Helicopters, and military intelligence on Iranian units in the field. In terms of actual weapons though, the United States gave weapons to IRAN, not Iraq. Over 2,000 TOW Missiles as well as spare parts to keep the SHAH's former military in field. International Relations can sometimes make strange bed fellows, but I don't know anyone that really regrets helping Joseph Stalin during World War II.

 

[U2Edge]

Wrong-o -----
Afghanistan was definitely the Forever War (It's the title of an old scifi book by John Haldeman, that's how it started being said). America refuses to make war, so of course we can't win against any party that is willing to make war. When China decides to take over Taiwan, believe me, we'd better just shut up and smile, because we sure can't fight them.

The only way to win against the Taliban, or the Nazis, or the Japs, is to burn and bomb their cities till there aren't any cities and everyone in them is dead, and kill all the men. All the men. Then, and only then, you can hope to remake their government, unless it's a theocracy, which of course the Taliban is. So it's hopeless even then. This is actually how war works, and how we won on two fronts last time, and how anyone who won wars, such as the Romans who killed millions, by hand, expanded their empire: they killed off anyone causing a problem. That is what war is FOR.

The left refuses to do any of this because it's not "modren" so everyone can win wars against us and we will never win another war. This started in Vietnam: when you want to be bestest wittle friensies instead of enemies with the people you've invaded, they will win and you will lose. We don't and we can't fight anymore, too divided and too antiwar. So the Taliban are driving us out and that's just how it is. Any ragtag bunch can and will drive us out of anywhere they want. Look at Iraq, same deal.

That was quite a sudden terminal decline we spun into; it's the fault of the Left, of course.

The United States is still in Iraq, helping train their military. So are NATO troops from about a dozen countries. Its still the same government that the United States set up in the summer of 2003 after the United States defeated SADDAM. Plenty of insurgents have tried to overthrow that U.S. installed government, but they ultimately failed every time.

Today, Iraq has less people die from violence than the state of California. In fact, in 2021, less people have died from violence than have been killed in the city of Chicago. Chicago by the way has a population of 3 million, while Iraq's population is 40 million.

 

[struth]

You obviously don't understand the difference between domestic matters and international agreements...

first, why didn't xiden just enforce the agreement and not leave?

second, what was the Taliban, gonna do if we simply ignored it? they aren't a nation that we recognize, or the UN recognizes, or anyone recognizes......

So try again...this excuse has been debunked, Xiden even admitted it...why can't you accept it

 

[MadChemist]

Afghanistan Total Districts and Provincial Capitals:
421 Districts
34 Provincial Capitals

November 28, 2017
Taliban controlled districts: 73
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 0

April 13, 2021
Taliban controlled districts: 77
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 0

April 14, 2021
BIDEN announces complete withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan by September 2021, regardless of conditions on the ground.

August 16, 2021
Taliban controlled districts: 405
Taliban controlled Provincial Capitals: 32

The above are basic statistical facts. All of it checked with U.S. outposts in various parts of Afghanistan and other methods of surveillance and human intelligence. Western media, Western NGO's also working in the provinces, also, confirm these totals at those times.

Making up a some joke about Vietnam does not change the factual reality of it.

You may not ever completely end an insurgency or for that matter, any sort of criminal activity. Its how you manage it that matters, and the United States and NATO had an excellent system in place for managing the problems coming from Afghanistan that endangered the United States and the world.

The Taliban still existed in 2021, but it does not follow that you should then abandon the Afghanistan to them, when they are hiding in the most remote regions of the country and across the border in Pakistan UNABLE to advance any further than that. That is just absurd and puts the United States and the rest of the world in greater danger from terrorism.

Most military forces collapse when they run out of ammo, fuel, food, other supplies etc. JOE BIDEN took those things away from the Afghan military with his sudden and hasty withdrawal. It was also Donald Trump the previous year negotiating with the Taliban and getting the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban/Al Qaeda prisoners. In addition, cutting the Afghan government out of talks had a negative psychological effect on the Afghan government and military. This is a tragedy inflicted by the actions taken in the last half of the Trump administration but more specifically BIDEN's actions this spring.


The Afghan military was doing just fine until JOE BIDEN pulled the plug. Its chief problems were the high casualty rate they were taking per year, and that they did not yet have a logistical support system in place to take care of themselves absent NATO. Their Air Force was tiny compared to what the United States and NATO had in country, and it fell apart when NATO withdrew the contractors who were helping maintain the planes for the Afghan Air Force. The fact is, the Afghan Army did not lose any ground, when they replaced most of the 130,000 United States and NATO troops that were in the field from 2010-2012. The above statistics at the top show they held back the Taliban consistently, until JOE BIDEN pulled the plug.

The Taliban only operate with what they can carry on their back primarily. Its an insurgency, and they don't rely on large weapon systems. You can't effectively run an insurgency that requires a large logistical tail, because it would be to vulnerable to disruption. The Taliban spend much of their time hiding, either among the population or in remote areas. Still, they do become more vulnerable when they come out to fight and starting this spring, they were able to operate more freely in the open with most of U.S. and NATO airpower out of the way. The Afghan military was suddenly forced to adjust to this environment along with shortages in supplies key to being able to function in the field at all.

The Afghan military was progressing and getting better. What they did from 2015 to 2020, they could not have done years earlier. But by 2015, their training and experienced had brought them to the point that they were able to replace U.S. and NATO combat Battalions in the field. That was a huge improvement over previous years when the Afghan military was typically not ready to send large units into combat and be able to hold up. Even when they slipped up in 2015 and 2016 with the provincial capital of Kunduz, they were able to regroup and retake the city from the Taliban after a few weeks. For some reason, you just ignore these facts. You can't make an accurate assessment of what happened or what needs to be done when you do that.


As for the Draft by the Federal Government, it only existed in the United States in the following years, 1863, 1864, 1865, 1917, 1918, September 1940 through June 30, 1973. THERE WAS NO MILITARY DRAFT FROM 1919 THROUGH1939!
The first peace time draft was started in September 1940, and continued through World War II, Korean War, and Vietnam war as well as the intervening periods between those wars. So actually about 38 years to be correct.

Also, a draft DOES NOT give everyone skin in the game unless it involves the entire population. Even in World War II, more than half of military age males, 18-44, did not serve in the military.

Even if you doubled the size of the current military from 1.4 million to 2.8 million, its likely you could achieve those numbers with a volunteer system given the size of the population. In 1980, the All Volunteer military had 2.2 million from a population of only 225 million. Today the U.S. population is 335 million. Also the Draft military had a bad record back in 1971, which why most in the military wanted to go with the all Volunteer system. The summer of 1971 in Vietnam saw wide insubordination and over 750 incidences of fragging attempts to kill officers. Drafting people that are in some circumstances more of a threat to the military than the enemy is foolish. This an many other reasons ended it.

A military draft is used only when it becomes a necessity in order to keep up military strength in the field. It was never a form of social engineering to keep political leaders or the population in line or to follow some political philosophy about war and intervention. That is just a fantasy of isolationist conservatives or far left liberal pacifist. You can't put every single adult into the military because the country would no longer be able to function. Even with the Israeli military that reportedly requires everyone to serve(although in reality only 50% do), the country could only function for maybe 12 weeks at most at full mobilization.

There you have it MarcATL

Facts !!!

As you so prone to slobber about but never produce.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Some have accused Biden of not listening to his intelligence and military advisors.

This is who Biden did listen to.

Even with the current chaos in Kabul and the Kabul airport which has been seen every day on every network ever since plus the barrage of finger pointing at our President, a recent survey conducted by Morning Consult and Politico between Aug. 13 and Aug. 16, the day after the Taliban completed its takeover of Kabul, found that 49 percent of American voters still support President Biden’s decision to pull troops from the country.

Significantly and prior to the current chaos, 69 percent expressed support for the exit in an April survey by the same firms.

As a Presidential candidate, Biden campaigned on a withdrawal from Afghanistan. Obviously, voters agreed with him.

Getting back to the August poll, The Hill reports. "Thirty-seven percent of voters [one assumes Republicans] polled in August said they opposed the president’s decision to withdraw troops from Afghanistan, which was more than double the 16 percent opposition recorded in April.

"Sixty-nine percent of Democrats approved the president’s decision to pull troops from Afghanistan in the new poll, down from 84 percent in April."

"Over the past 20 years, Americans’ support for the war in Afghanistan has consistently waned. So much so that despite the Taliban taking over the country in a matter of days this past week — after the United States spent a trillion dollars and thousands of lives to prevent such a thing — very few people are second-guessing the need to withdraw, though many debate how the withdrawal has been executed by the Biden administration," the Washington Post.

The Taliban captured Kandahar and Kabul on the weekend and within hours the Afghan security forces folded without firing a shot, hence the chaos we are seeing now

There is no possible way Biden and his military advisors could anticipate that.

To say otherwise assumes the President and/or the Joint Chiefs decided to create a trap for American troops and civilians in Afghanistan, knowing the debacle that would follow.

To say otherwise makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

The Taliban captured Kandahar and Kabul on the weekend and within hours the Afghan security forces folded without firing a shot, hence the chaos we are seeing now

There is no possible way Biden and his military advisors could anticipate that.

Typical is the criticism leveled at Biden by Sen. Robert Menendez, chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “In implementing this flawed plan, I am disappointed that the Biden administration clearly did not accurately assess the implications of a rapid U.S. withdrawal."

In other words, Biden was unable to predict the future and what the enemy accomplished in a short amount of time.

Consider this, there is little doubt that there were intelligence reports concerning the lack of fight within the Afghan army. However, there has been no information on the evaluation of the Director of National Intelligence. There is no indication the DNI told President Biden with "High Confidence" that the Afghan army would fold at the first sign of trouble.

Then there is this. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley insisted at a Wednesday press conference that U.S. intelligence did not predict the collapse of the Afghan government in less than two weeks. “There was nothing that I or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse of this army in this government in 11 days,” he said, adding they were told the country could fall to the Taliban in weeks or even years.

A commander, in this case, the President of the United States, can only make decisions on the basis of the information available to him. He cannot predict the future.

The situation in Afghanistan today is a consequence of the successes of the enemy, not American failure.

The enemy does not always do what you want him to do.

In this case the enemy did not wait "weeks or even years" to accomplish what he set out to do.