CDZ Disney, alligators, no swimming and lawsuits

[320 Years of History]

Do you really think that a sign that merely says “no swimming please” conveys a warning to parents that their child should not go wading in the water because a gator may pull them under and drown them?

In light of the rationale in post #4, yes, without question, I do.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm not supposed to question your assertions? LOL!

I'm still awaiting your responses to the questions in the OP. I'm also awaiting your response to the line of reasoning in post #4.

Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does.
-- Jean Paul Sartre

Attack the evil that is within yourself, rather than attacking the evil that is in others.
-- Confucius

If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
​

The theme of the OP and the reasoning in post #4 is that one is responsible for what befalls oneself, both the good and bad of it. It isn't someone else's fault for not telling you the sky is about to fall. It's one's own responsibility to look up and figure out on one's own that it's about to fall.

1. One is in Florida.
2. Florida has alligators, as indicated by the road signs and tourist literature.
3. Alligators live in and around water.
4. Alligators have legs and can swim.
5. Disney is in Florida.
6. Disney has bodies of water.
7. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume there may be alligators in the bodies of water at Disney.
8. Therefore, stay the hell out of the water, or don't and take one's chances.

None of those communicates the idea that a hungry gator could rush out and drown a guest.
And a No Swimming Please sign doesn't either.
Do you feel that Disney should be shielded from liability by their sign?

If the boy had simply wandered into the water and drowned, you'd probably be right.

 

[320 Years of History]

I'm not supposed to question your assertions? LOL!

I'm still awaiting your responses to the questions in the OP. I'm also awaiting your response to the line of reasoning in post #4.

Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does.
-- Jean Paul Sartre

Attack the evil that is within yourself, rather than attacking the evil that is in others.
-- Confucius

If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
​

The theme of the OP and the reasoning in post #4 is that one is responsible for what befalls oneself, both the good and bad of it. It isn't someone else's fault for not telling you the sky is about to fall. It's one's own responsibility to look up and figure out on one's own that it's about to fall.

1. One is in Florida.
2. Florida has alligators, as indicated by the road signs and tourist literature.
3. Alligators live in and around water.
4. Alligators have legs and can swim.
5. Disney is in Florida.
6. Disney has bodies of water.
7. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume there may be alligators in the bodies of water at Disney.
8. Therefore, stay the hell out of the water, or don't and take one's chances.

None of those communicates the idea that a hungry gator could rush out and drown a guest.
And a No Swimming Please sign doesn't either.
Do you feel that Disney should be shielded from liability by their sign?

If the boy had simply wandered into the water and drowned, you'd probably be right.

Red:
Frankly, I think that if one needs to be expressly told that given that one knows there are gators "around," one probably hasn't reached the level of maturity and good sense that one needs to have children and provide for their safety. That's a damn shame for the kid, but it is what it is. As with so many other things, kids/offspring are, through no fault of their own, at the mercy of their parents' stupidity and/or ignorance.

Blue:
Yes.

Do you feel that humans should be absolved of their own ignorance by the lack of a sign?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm not supposed to question your assertions? LOL!

I'm still awaiting your responses to the questions in the OP. I'm also awaiting your response to the line of reasoning in post #4.

Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does.
-- Jean Paul Sartre

Attack the evil that is within yourself, rather than attacking the evil that is in others.
-- Confucius

If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
​

The theme of the OP and the reasoning in post #4 is that one is responsible for what befalls oneself, both the good and bad of it. It isn't someone else's fault for not telling you the sky is about to fall. It's one's own responsibility to look up and figure out on one's own that it's about to fall.

1. One is in Florida.
2. Florida has alligators, as indicated by the road signs and tourist literature.
3. Alligators live in and around water.
4. Alligators have legs and can swim.
5. Disney is in Florida.
6. Disney has bodies of water.
7. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume there may be alligators in the bodies of water at Disney.
8. Therefore, stay the hell out of the water, or don't and take one's chances.

None of those communicates the idea that a hungry gator could rush out and drown a guest.
And a No Swimming Please sign doesn't either.
Do you feel that Disney should be shielded from liability by their sign?

If the boy had simply wandered into the water and drowned, you'd probably be right.

Red:
Frankly, I think that if one needs to be expressly told that given that one knows there are gators "around," one probably hasn't reached the level of maturity and good sense that one needs to have children and provide for their safety. That's a damn shame for the kid, but it is what it is. As with so many other things, kids/offspring are, through no fault of their own, at the mercy of their parents' stupidity and/or ignorance.

Blue:
Yes.

Do you feel that humans should be absolved of their own ignorance by the lack of a sign?

Frankly, I think that if one needs to be expressly told that given that one knows there are gators "around," one probably hasn't reached the level of maturity and good sense that one needs to have children and provide for their safety.

So why the no swimming sign? Why did they trap gators when they found them.
They should have chummed the water near the shore, eh?
Survival of the fittest, right?

Do you feel that humans should be absolved of their own ignorance by the lack of a sign?

If the sign says no swimming and you drown......your own fault.
If the sigh says, Dangerous Cliff....Stay Back and you fall off.....your own fault.

If the sign says no swimming......and you're not swimming and a gator pulls you in the water, Disney's fault.
Unless Disney never had any reason to believe gators were ever in the area.

If Disney knew there were gators, the no swimming sign was just as easily replaced with a gator warning sign.

Gator Attack: Disney Knew of Problems, Staffer Asked for Fence at Lagoon (Exclusive)

Oops, now it looks like negligence. Recklessness. Worse?

 

[320 Years of History]

If Disney knew there were gators, the no swimming sign was just as easily replaced with a gator warning sign.

I'm sorry, but I see no good reason to think the water at Disney is any different than the water anywhere else in Florida, or Georgia, or Mississippi, or Louisiana or Alabama. It doesn't matter if Disney or a typical homeowner, or the casinos in Biloxi, or anyone else puts out a sign expressly mentioning alligators when one is in "alligator country."

Anyone with any sense doesn't need a sign; they need nothing more than situational awareness. It is not Disney's fault or burden to create situational awareness for them.

I don't even live in FL, and I know there are quite possibly going to be gators in the "natural" bodies of water in FL. I know there are possibly gators in the waters of the MS and LA bayou too, and I don't need there to be a sign telling me that is so. When I went to several African countries, I had better sense than to stand at the edges of rivers and lakes, and nobody told me it wasn't a good idea not to stand there are there were no signs.

I have cats, but I also know that foxes live in the woods adjacent to my neighborhood, and I don't want to risk the cats "getting into it" with a fox, so I don't let them out at night. I live smack in the middle of D.C. There's water next to the Disney resort -- water that's as close to the building as the woods are to my home -- and the mere presence of the woods is enough for me to suss what kinds of creatures may live there...fox, raccoon, opossums, and so on.

​

I live right between the two woods you see in the image above. I don't know when the fox is going to be around; we don't have a neighborhood fox watch. I know that it can be around; I know it has legs and will travel in the search for food. I know a fox, if it sneaks up on my dozing cat will find an easy meal. I know too the fox isn't waving a sign or blowing horns any more than is an alligator lurking in a lagoon to find an easy meal. (Which, BTW, the alligator clearly didn't, after it nabbed him, see the boy as dinner insofar as the boy's body was found intact.) And that's enough for me to take reasonable care with my cats.

Don't you think a somewhat greater degree of care is warranted with regard to one's child in a state known for having alligators in the water? You honestly don't think common sense would tell you, me, or most people that have some, not to temp fate by going into fresh (or salty) bodies of water in a place known to have alligators around?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If Disney knew there were gators, the no swimming sign was just as easily replaced with a gator warning sign.

I'm sorry, but I see no good reason to think the water at Disney is any different than the water anywhere else in Florida, or Georgia, or Mississippi, or Louisiana or Alabama. It doesn't matter if Disney or a typical homeowner, or the casinos in Biloxi, or anyone else puts out a sign expressly mentioning alligators when one is in "alligator country."

Anyone with any sense doesn't need a sign; they need nothing more than situational awareness. It is not Disney's fault or burden to create situational awareness for them.

I don't even live in FL, and I know there are quite possibly going to be gators in the "natural" bodies of water in FL. I know there are possibly gators in the waters of the MS and LA bayou too, and I don't need there to be a sign telling me that is so. When I went to several African countries, I had better sense than to stand at the edges of rivers and lakes, and nobody told me it wasn't a good idea not to stand there are there were no signs.

I have cats, but I also know that foxes live in the woods adjacent to my neighborhood, and I don't want to risk the cats "getting into it" with a fox, so I don't let them out at night. I live smack in the middle of D.C. There's water next to the Disney resort -- water that's as close to the building as the woods are to my home -- and the mere presence of the woods is enough for me to suss what kinds of creatures may live there...fox, raccoon, opossums, and so on.

​

I live right between the two woods you see in the image above. I don't know when the fox is going to be around; we don't have a neighborhood fox watch. I know that it can be around; I know it has legs and will travel in the search for food. I know a fox, if it sneaks up on my dozing cat will find an easy meal. I know too the fox isn't waving a sign or blowing horns any more than is an alligator lurking in a lagoon to find an easy meal. (Which, BTW, the alligator clearly didn't, after it nabbed him, see the boy as dinner insofar as the boy's body was found intact.) And that's enough for me to take reasonable care with my cats.

Don't you think a somewhat greater degree of care is warranted with regard to one's child in a state known for having alligators in the water? You honestly don't think common sense would tell you, me, or most people that have some, not to temp fate by going into fresh (or salty) bodies of water in a place known to have alligators around?

If a reasonable person should have known then I'm sure Disney won't pay a dime.

 

[320 Years of History]

If Disney knew there were gators, the no swimming sign was just as easily replaced with a gator warning sign.

I'm sorry, but I see no good reason to think the water at Disney is any different than the water anywhere else in Florida, or Georgia, or Mississippi, or Louisiana or Alabama. It doesn't matter if Disney or a typical homeowner, or the casinos in Biloxi, or anyone else puts out a sign expressly mentioning alligators when one is in "alligator country."

Anyone with any sense doesn't need a sign; they need nothing more than situational awareness. It is not Disney's fault or burden to create situational awareness for them.

I don't even live in FL, and I know there are quite possibly going to be gators in the "natural" bodies of water in FL. I know there are possibly gators in the waters of the MS and LA bayou too, and I don't need there to be a sign telling me that is so. When I went to several African countries, I had better sense than to stand at the edges of rivers and lakes, and nobody told me it wasn't a good idea not to stand there are there were no signs.

I have cats, but I also know that foxes live in the woods adjacent to my neighborhood, and I don't want to risk the cats "getting into it" with a fox, so I don't let them out at night. I live smack in the middle of D.C. There's water next to the Disney resort -- water that's as close to the building as the woods are to my home -- and the mere presence of the woods is enough for me to suss what kinds of creatures may live there...fox, raccoon, opossums, and so on.

​

I live right between the two woods you see in the image above. I don't know when the fox is going to be around; we don't have a neighborhood fox watch. I know that it can be around; I know it has legs and will travel in the search for food. I know a fox, if it sneaks up on my dozing cat will find an easy meal. I know too the fox isn't waving a sign or blowing horns any more than is an alligator lurking in a lagoon to find an easy meal. (Which, BTW, the alligator clearly didn't, after it nabbed him, see the boy as dinner insofar as the boy's body was found intact.) And that's enough for me to take reasonable care with my cats.

Don't you think a somewhat greater degree of care is warranted with regard to one's child in a state known for having alligators in the water? You honestly don't think common sense would tell you, me, or most people that have some, not to temp fate by going into fresh (or salty) bodies of water in a place known to have alligators around?

If a reasonable person should have known then I'm sure Disney won't pay a dime.

That goes directly to the "deep pockets" conundrum companies like Disney face and that I mentioned earlier.

 

[Markle]

Blue:
I'm sure Disney did nothing to control the presence of alligators in the lagoon. I suspect Disney and its guests viewed the alligators as part of the appeal of the place...sort of like having a limited natural habitat animal viewing/experience area of sorts...not as safe as a zoo, about as safe as one might be in one's backyard, but more safe than being in the wild.

I know I rather enjoy seeing wildlife around me, be it when I'm camping in the mountains, at home in D.C., visiting family in MS, and elsewhere. It's just cool to have critters around and see them "doing their thing" (although I'm not looking to see them eat/kill people). I suspect most folks do. The lagoon at the Disney hotel is no different.

So many uninformed people.

Disney has an entire department that does nothing but track, trap and kills if necessary nuisance alligators or other critters. The program has been highly successful for nearly 40 years.

 

[Markle]

If a reasonable person should have known then I'm sure Disney won't pay a dime.

Disney will settle out of court at a figure higher than what would have been awarded by a jury. They want this settled and behind them as soon as possible.

 

[320 Years of History]

Blue:
I'm sure Disney did nothing to control the presence of alligators in the lagoon. I suspect Disney and its guests viewed the alligators as part of the appeal of the place...sort of like having a limited natural habitat animal viewing/experience area of sorts...not as safe as a zoo, about as safe as one might be in one's backyard, but more safe than being in the wild.

I know I rather enjoy seeing wildlife around me, be it when I'm camping in the mountains, at home in D.C., visiting family in MS, and elsewhere. It's just cool to have critters around and see them "doing their thing" (although I'm not looking to see them eat/kill people). I suspect most folks do. The lagoon at the Disney hotel is no different.

So many uninformed people.

Disney has an entire department that does nothing but track, trap and kills if necessary nuisance alligators or other critters. The program has been highly successful for nearly 40 years.

Well, then I'm wrong. Disney has been doing something to curtail the presence of alligators in its resort waterways. Thanks for pointing out the existence of their program.

That it has been doing for some 40 years or so still doesn't absolve visitors from applying good sense and staying out of them. Also, that Disney has been removing alligators in response to complaints indicates to me that Disney has addressed the problem (as much as it can be called a problem seeing as nobody has heretofore been killed until last week) effectively and to a sufficient extent that it should not be held culpable for the boy's death by alligator.

 

[Markle]

I've lived in Florida since I was a child. Our state headquarters is located in Orlando. We have two business meeting a year and one convention with many being in Orlando due to the convenience. Many of those are in Lake Buena Vista, and in the Disney Hotels. They have great convention facilities available for large associations. Walking to or from the venue to the parking areas you frequently cross creeks and streams by wooden bridges. I've been there hundreds of times and many of those times I have seen alligators, snakes, deer, and many other animals on the grounds.

One of the biggest problems they have is with PEOPLE ignoring all the signs and feeding some of the wildlife. Those are the alligators which are killed. They start to encroach closer and closer to highly populated areas.

 

[Picaro]

Sueing Disney is an industry in Florida; they're used to it. They never had an incident like this in some 45 years, so it's obvious they weren't negligent, it was just a tourist who made a bad decision, and now apparently wants to cash in on his own error in judgement, and no doubt egged on by the usual assortment of bottom feeders.

But, before those of you out there in Gimp Nation get all excited and toss your annoying children in the Toyota, or start looking into adopting one, and race down to Disney Florida hoping for a similar windfall, and many of you obviously are, here's a couple of 'personal injury' lawyers who want you know the drawbacks and loopholes out there re the Sue Disney Industry, and their expertise in that business:

Orlando, Florida Disney World - Theme Park Liability for Personal Injuries Including Injuries to Children - Florida Child Injury Lawyer Blog

This one has the best info:

Walt Disney World Accident and Injury Claims in Orlando

And, he provides an entire list of Disney-owned businesses and properties for you to pick from in search for the pot of gold at the end of The Disney Rainbow, if you don't have any luck at trying to feed your kids to a gator or something, and have to try some other scheme and dream of a smaller Pay Day.

 

[Picaro]

If Disney knew there were gators, the no swimming sign was just as easily replaced with a gator warning sign.

I'm sorry, but I see no good reason to think the water at Disney is any different than the water anywhere else in Florida, or Georgia, or Mississippi, or Louisiana or Alabama. It doesn't matter if Disney or a typical homeowner, or the casinos in Biloxi, or anyone else puts out a sign expressly mentioning alligators when one is in "alligator country."

Anyone with any sense doesn't need a sign; they need nothing more than situational awareness. It is not Disney's fault or burden to create situational awareness for them.

I don't even live in FL, and I know there are quite possibly going to be gators in the "natural" bodies of water in FL. I know there are possibly gators in the waters of the MS and LA bayou too, and I don't need there to be a sign telling me that is so. When I went to several African countries, I had better sense than to stand at the edges of rivers and lakes, and nobody told me it wasn't a good idea not to stand there are there were no signs.

I have cats, but I also know that foxes live in the woods adjacent to my neighborhood, and I don't want to risk the cats "getting into it" with a fox, so I don't let them out at night. I live smack in the middle of D.C. There's water next to the Disney resort -- water that's as close to the building as the woods are to my home -- and the mere presence of the woods is enough for me to suss what kinds of creatures may live there...fox, raccoon, opossums, and so on.

​

I live right between the two woods you see in the image above. I don't know when the fox is going to be around; we don't have a neighborhood fox watch. I know that it can be around; I know it has legs and will travel in the search for food. I know a fox, if it sneaks up on my dozing cat will find an easy meal. I know too the fox isn't waving a sign or blowing horns any more than is an alligator lurking in a lagoon to find an easy meal. (Which, BTW, the alligator clearly didn't, after it nabbed him, see the boy as dinner insofar as the boy's body was found intact.) And that's enough for me to take reasonable care with my cats.

Don't you think a somewhat greater degree of care is warranted with regard to one's child in a state known for having alligators in the water? You honestly don't think common sense would tell you, me, or most people that have some, not to temp fate by going into fresh (or salty) bodies of water in a place known to have alligators around?

If a reasonable person should have known then I'm sure Disney won't pay a dime.

they'll pay something to make it go away, but they won't be paying 'zillions', as some are fantasizing and drooling over. they don't want it to go to court, and neither should the parents of the child.