RealDave
Gold Member
- Sep 28, 2016
- 26,521
- 3,568
- 290
Ummmmm, wouldn't the worst economic disaster since WWII have the worst recovery?
Just asking, Mr Expert.
Dismal earnings reports indicate the start of the Trump downturn
- Thread starter airplanemechanic
- Start date
Just asking, Mr Expert.
RealDave
Gold Member
- Sep 28, 2016
- 26,521
- 3,568
- 290
Actually, Obama had to keep reminding you dumbasses why the ecobnomy needed recovery.
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Only if you had the worst President doing the worst job.
Maybe we'd have done better if he added another 100,000 pages of regulations?
Maybe 200,000 pages?
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Trump's band of thieves is also hard at work on Wall Street "deregulation" as the Foreclosure King regularly demonstrates:
"Prudential Financial Traded as a Clone to the Big Wall Street Banks from October to December of Last Year. Prudential, green line, versus Citi, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank.
"By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: June 3, 2019 ~
"U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin (a/k/a the former foreclosure king) has been attempting to dismantle regulatory restraints on Wall Street’s worst instincts since he took office.
"Making Mnuchin even more dangerous is the fact that, under statute, he simultaneously sits as head of the Financial Stability Oversight Council (F-SOC) even as he appears to be attempting to undermine financial stability in the U.S.
"One of Mnuchin’s most alarming actions on behalf of F-SOC came last
October 17 when the Council announced that it was removing the designation of Prudential Financial as a SIFI – a Systemically Important Financial Institution that required enhanced supervision and prudential standards.
"Mnuchin stated at the time: “The Council’s decision today follows extensive engagement with the company and a detailed analysis showing that there is not a significant risk that the company could pose a threat to financial stability.”
"The chart above shows what happened to Prudential from the date of Mnuchin’s statement to the end of 2018.
"Its stock started sinking like a rock in a pattern that was so close to the trading pattern of Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank that they could have been clones of one another.
"What does Prudential have in common with those three banks?
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Mnuchin’s Dangerous Plan to Deregulate Wall Street Is Captured in this Chart
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Derivatives didn't blow up shit in 2008.
Who told you that...
"The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time. These are complicated financial products that derive their value from an underlying asset or index. A good example of a derivative is a mortgage-backed security."
What role did mortgage-backed securities play in creating the Great Recession, Rube?
How Derivatives Could Trigger Another Financial Crisis
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Trump's band of thieves is also hard at work on Wall Street "deregulation" as the Foreclosure King regularly demonstrates:
"Prudential Financial Traded as a Clone to the Big Wall Street Banks from October to December of Last Year. Prudential, green line, versus Citi, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank.
"By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: June 3, 2019 ~
"U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin (a/k/a the former foreclosure king) has been attempting to dismantle regulatory restraints on Wall Street’s worst instincts since he took office.
"Making Mnuchin even more dangerous is the fact that, under statute, he simultaneously sits as head of the Financial Stability Oversight Council (F-SOC) even as he appears to be attempting to undermine financial stability in the U.S.
"One of Mnuchin’s most alarming actions on behalf of F-SOC came last
October 17 when the Council announced that it was removing the designation of Prudential Financial as a SIFI – a Systemically Important Financial Institution that required enhanced supervision and prudential standards.
"Mnuchin stated at the time: “The Council’s decision today follows extensive engagement with the company and a detailed analysis showing that there is not a significant risk that the company could pose a threat to financial stability.”
"The chart above shows what happened to Prudential from the date of Mnuchin’s statement to the end of 2018.
"Its stock started sinking like a rock in a pattern that was so close to the trading pattern of Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank that they could have been clones of one another.
"What does Prudential have in common with those three banks?
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Mnuchin’s Dangerous Plan to Deregulate Wall Street Is Captured in this Chart
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Derivatives didn't blow up shit in 2008.Who told you that...
"The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time. These are complicated financial products that derive their value from an underlying asset or index. A good example of a derivative is a mortgage-backed security."
What role did mortgage-backed securities play in creating the Great Recession, Rube?
How Derivatives Could Trigger Another Financial Crisis
The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time.
Bullshit.
Fannie Mae resells the mortgage in a package of other mortgages on the secondary market. This is a mortgage-backed security. Its value is derived by the value of the mortgages in the bundle.
An MBS isn't a derivative, it's a bond.
Turn a pile of mortgages into a pile of MBS, you still have a pile of mortgages.
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Trump's band of thieves is also hard at work on Wall Street "deregulation" as the Foreclosure King regularly demonstrates:
"Prudential Financial Traded as a Clone to the Big Wall Street Banks from October to December of Last Year. Prudential, green line, versus Citi, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank.
"By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: June 3, 2019 ~
"U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin (a/k/a the former foreclosure king) has been attempting to dismantle regulatory restraints on Wall Street’s worst instincts since he took office.
"Making Mnuchin even more dangerous is the fact that, under statute, he simultaneously sits as head of the Financial Stability Oversight Council (F-SOC) even as he appears to be attempting to undermine financial stability in the U.S.
"One of Mnuchin’s most alarming actions on behalf of F-SOC came last
October 17 when the Council announced that it was removing the designation of Prudential Financial as a SIFI – a Systemically Important Financial Institution that required enhanced supervision and prudential standards.
"Mnuchin stated at the time: “The Council’s decision today follows extensive engagement with the company and a detailed analysis showing that there is not a significant risk that the company could pose a threat to financial stability.”
"The chart above shows what happened to Prudential from the date of Mnuchin’s statement to the end of 2018.
"Its stock started sinking like a rock in a pattern that was so close to the trading pattern of Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank that they could have been clones of one another.
"What does Prudential have in common with those three banks?
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Mnuchin’s Dangerous Plan to Deregulate Wall Street Is Captured in this Chart
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Derivatives didn't blow up shit in 2008.Who told you that...
"The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time. These are complicated financial products that derive their value from an underlying asset or index. A good example of a derivative is a mortgage-backed security."
What role did mortgage-backed securities play in creating the Great Recession, Rube?
How Derivatives Could Trigger Another Financial Crisis
The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time.
Bullshit.
Fannie Mae resells the mortgage in a package of other mortgages on the secondary market. This is a mortgage-backed security. Its value is derived by the value of the mortgages in the bundle.
An MBS isn't a derivative, it's a bond.
Turn a pile of mortgages into a pile of MBS, you still have a pile of mortgages.
Which derive their value from the underlying assets.
How Mortgage-Backed Securities Worked Until They Didn't
"Mortgage-backed securities are investments that are secured by mortgages.
"They’re a type of asset-backed security.
"A security is an investment that is traded on a secondary market.
"It allows investors to benefit from the mortgage business without ever having to buy or sell an actual home loan. Typical buyers of these securities include institutional, corporate or individual investors.
"When you invest in an MBS, you are buying the rights to receive the value of a bundle of mortgages. That includes the monthly payments and the repayment of the principal.
"Since it is a security, you can buy just a part of the mortgage. You receive an equivalent portion of the payments.
"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Trump's band of thieves is also hard at work on Wall Street "deregulation" as the Foreclosure King regularly demonstrates:
"Prudential Financial Traded as a Clone to the Big Wall Street Banks from October to December of Last Year. Prudential, green line, versus Citi, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank.
"By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: June 3, 2019 ~
"U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin (a/k/a the former foreclosure king) has been attempting to dismantle regulatory restraints on Wall Street’s worst instincts since he took office.
"Making Mnuchin even more dangerous is the fact that, under statute, he simultaneously sits as head of the Financial Stability Oversight Council (F-SOC) even as he appears to be attempting to undermine financial stability in the U.S.
"One of Mnuchin’s most alarming actions on behalf of F-SOC came last
October 17 when the Council announced that it was removing the designation of Prudential Financial as a SIFI – a Systemically Important Financial Institution that required enhanced supervision and prudential standards.
"Mnuchin stated at the time: “The Council’s decision today follows extensive engagement with the company and a detailed analysis showing that there is not a significant risk that the company could pose a threat to financial stability.”
"The chart above shows what happened to Prudential from the date of Mnuchin’s statement to the end of 2018.
"Its stock started sinking like a rock in a pattern that was so close to the trading pattern of Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank that they could have been clones of one another.
"What does Prudential have in common with those three banks?
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Mnuchin’s Dangerous Plan to Deregulate Wall Street Is Captured in this Chart
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Derivatives didn't blow up shit in 2008.Who told you that...
"The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time. These are complicated financial products that derive their value from an underlying asset or index. A good example of a derivative is a mortgage-backed security."
What role did mortgage-backed securities play in creating the Great Recession, Rube?
How Derivatives Could Trigger Another Financial Crisis
The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time.
Bullshit.
Fannie Mae resells the mortgage in a package of other mortgages on the secondary market. This is a mortgage-backed security. Its value is derived by the value of the mortgages in the bundle.
An MBS isn't a derivative, it's a bond.
Turn a pile of mortgages into a pile of MBS, you still have a pile of mortgages.Which derive their value from the underlying assets.
How Mortgage-Backed Securities Worked Until They Didn't
"Mortgage-backed securities are investments that are secured by mortgages.
"They’re a type of asset-backed security.
"A security is an investment that is traded on a secondary market.
"It allows investors to benefit from the mortgage business without ever having to buy or sell an actual home loan. Typical buyers of these securities include institutional, corporate or individual investors.
"When you invest in an MBS, you are buying the rights to receive the value of a bundle of mortgages. That includes the monthly payments and the repayment of the principal.
"Since it is a security, you can buy just a part of the mortgage. You receive an equivalent portion of the payments.
"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."
"They’re a type of asset-backed security.
Right. Not a derivative.
"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."
Wrong.
A derivative derives its value from something without actually being that thing.
5000 bushels of corn is not a derivative, it's an asset.
A futures contract on 5000 bushels of corn isn't actually 5000 bushels of corn, it
is a derivative that derives its value from the value of 5000 bushels of corn.
100 shares of IBM is not a derivative, it's an asset.
A call option on 100 shares of IBM isn't actually 100 shares of IBM, it is a derivative
that derives its value from the value of 100 shares of IBM.
A pile of mortgages, or a pile of MBS carved out of a pile of mortgages, is a bond.
Not a derivative.
A credit default swap that derives its value from the value of a pile of mortgages isn't a bond.
It isn't a pile of mortgages or a pile of MBS, it is a derivative.
Fort Fun Indiana
Diamond Member
- Mar 10, 2017
- 120,366
- 125,218
- 3,645
No it doesn't, that's nonsensical.
Fort Fun Indiana
Diamond Member
- Mar 10, 2017
- 120,366
- 125,218
- 3,645
It absolutely is a derivative, when apportioned. And the fact that very few understood these apportions led to the credit freezes and bank bailouts.
WEATHER53
Diamond Member
- Apr 13, 2017
- 39,324
- 27,957
- 2,915
Huge move today and my overall portfolio of stocks and mutual funds up 8.7% since 11/17. Lots of Chumleys talking shit and there never owned any stock
We survived the coup attempt and now onto more fabrications, bitching and moaning, cult of scarcity, illegals loving Americans hating
I now realize that Trump was actually just one element of the coup attempt. There has been an attempt at American Values shame based fundamental transformation of America toward a third world shithole and we need to be wary of that even though the bogus witch hunt failed to nail the big fish.
We survived the coup attempt and now onto more fabrications, bitching and moaning, cult of scarcity, illegals loving Americans hating
I now realize that Trump was actually just one element of the coup attempt. There has been an attempt at American Values shame based fundamental transformation of America toward a third world shithole and we need to be wary of that even though the bogus witch hunt failed to nail the big fish.
Last edited:
Dana7360
Diamond Member
- Aug 6, 2014
- 15,147
- 13,605
- 2,405
That makes all of it's ridiculous posts make much more sense. A person who is a guard at a bank went to high school but no farther. They have very little education and knowledge of economics or economic policy.
A person like me who has their degree in accounting & finance know what they're talking about. Economics courses were required for my degree.
I know it can be fun to help people like the one you're replying to make total fools of themselves but I just scroll right by their idiocy. They can't be taught truth or even the most simplistic economic concepts.
You're wasting your time.
RoshawnMarkwees
Assimilationist
- Banned
- #112
Alexandra Occasional Kotex has an economics degree.
Dana7360
Diamond Member
- Aug 6, 2014
- 15,147
- 13,605
- 2,405
Trump's band of thieves is also hard at work on Wall Street "deregulation" as the Foreclosure King regularly demonstrates:
"Prudential Financial Traded as a Clone to the Big Wall Street Banks from October to December of Last Year. Prudential, green line, versus Citi, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank.
"By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: June 3, 2019 ~
"U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin (a/k/a the former foreclosure king) has been attempting to dismantle regulatory restraints on Wall Street’s worst instincts since he took office.
"Making Mnuchin even more dangerous is the fact that, under statute, he simultaneously sits as head of the Financial Stability Oversight Council (F-SOC) even as he appears to be attempting to undermine financial stability in the U.S.
"One of Mnuchin’s most alarming actions on behalf of F-SOC came last
October 17 when the Council announced that it was removing the designation of Prudential Financial as a SIFI – a Systemically Important Financial Institution that required enhanced supervision and prudential standards.
"Mnuchin stated at the time: “The Council’s decision today follows extensive engagement with the company and a detailed analysis showing that there is not a significant risk that the company could pose a threat to financial stability.”
"The chart above shows what happened to Prudential from the date of Mnuchin’s statement to the end of 2018.
"Its stock started sinking like a rock in a pattern that was so close to the trading pattern of Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank that they could have been clones of one another.
"What does Prudential have in common with those three banks?
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Mnuchin’s Dangerous Plan to Deregulate Wall Street Is Captured in this Chart
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Derivatives didn't blow up shit in 2008.Who told you that...
"The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time. These are complicated financial products that derive their value from an underlying asset or index. A good example of a derivative is a mortgage-backed security."
What role did mortgage-backed securities play in creating the Great Recession, Rube?
How Derivatives Could Trigger Another Financial Crisis
The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time.
Bullshit.
Fannie Mae resells the mortgage in a package of other mortgages on the secondary market. This is a mortgage-backed security. Its value is derived by the value of the mortgages in the bundle.
An MBS isn't a derivative, it's a bond.
Turn a pile of mortgages into a pile of MBS, you still have a pile of mortgages.Which derive their value from the underlying assets.
How Mortgage-Backed Securities Worked Until They Didn't
"Mortgage-backed securities are investments that are secured by mortgages.
"They’re a type of asset-backed security.
"A security is an investment that is traded on a secondary market.
"It allows investors to benefit from the mortgage business without ever having to buy or sell an actual home loan. Typical buyers of these securities include institutional, corporate or individual investors.
"When you invest in an MBS, you are buying the rights to receive the value of a bundle of mortgages. That includes the monthly payments and the repayment of the principal.
"Since it is a security, you can buy just a part of the mortgage. You receive an equivalent portion of the payments.
"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."
Exactly.
Deregulation allowed the lie that the bundles were safe and A prime rated because some of the loans were traditional loans and not likely to default. The bundles also contained a large amount of sub prime loans which were highly likely to default.
Deregulation allowed the NINJA sub prime loans which were a total disaster and at one time categorized as predatory lending.
Banks in America weren't the only institutions harmed. Countries like Greenland and Greece were harmed.
The deregulation and sub prime loans are back. I don't know if the lending institutions have learned their lesson yet.
RoshawnMarkwees
Assimilationist
- Banned
- #114
Who forces people into mortgages they know they can’t afford?Trump's band of thieves is also hard at work on Wall Street "deregulation" as the Foreclosure King regularly demonstrates:
"Prudential Financial Traded as a Clone to the Big Wall Street Banks from October to December of Last Year. Prudential, green line, versus Citi, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank.
"By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: June 3, 2019 ~
"U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin (a/k/a the former foreclosure king) has been attempting to dismantle regulatory restraints on Wall Street’s worst instincts since he took office.
"Making Mnuchin even more dangerous is the fact that, under statute, he simultaneously sits as head of the Financial Stability Oversight Council (F-SOC) even as he appears to be attempting to undermine financial stability in the U.S.
"One of Mnuchin’s most alarming actions on behalf of F-SOC came last
October 17 when the Council announced that it was removing the designation of Prudential Financial as a SIFI – a Systemically Important Financial Institution that required enhanced supervision and prudential standards.
"Mnuchin stated at the time: “The Council’s decision today follows extensive engagement with the company and a detailed analysis showing that there is not a significant risk that the company could pose a threat to financial stability.”
"The chart above shows what happened to Prudential from the date of Mnuchin’s statement to the end of 2018.
"Its stock started sinking like a rock in a pattern that was so close to the trading pattern of Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank that they could have been clones of one another.
"What does Prudential have in common with those three banks?
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Mnuchin’s Dangerous Plan to Deregulate Wall Street Is Captured in this Chart
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Derivatives didn't blow up shit in 2008.Who told you that...
"The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time. These are complicated financial products that derive their value from an underlying asset or index. A good example of a derivative is a mortgage-backed security."
What role did mortgage-backed securities play in creating the Great Recession, Rube?
How Derivatives Could Trigger Another Financial Crisis
The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time.
Bullshit.
Fannie Mae resells the mortgage in a package of other mortgages on the secondary market. This is a mortgage-backed security. Its value is derived by the value of the mortgages in the bundle.
An MBS isn't a derivative, it's a bond.
Turn a pile of mortgages into a pile of MBS, you still have a pile of mortgages.Which derive their value from the underlying assets.
How Mortgage-Backed Securities Worked Until They Didn't
"Mortgage-backed securities are investments that are secured by mortgages.
"They’re a type of asset-backed security.
"A security is an investment that is traded on a secondary market.
"It allows investors to benefit from the mortgage business without ever having to buy or sell an actual home loan. Typical buyers of these securities include institutional, corporate or individual investors.
"When you invest in an MBS, you are buying the rights to receive the value of a bundle of mortgages. That includes the monthly payments and the repayment of the principal.
"Since it is a security, you can buy just a part of the mortgage. You receive an equivalent portion of the payments.
"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."
Exactly.
Deregulation allowed the lie that the bundles were safe and A prime rated because some of the loans were traditional loans and not likely to default. The bundles also contained a large amount of sub prime loans which were highly likely to default.
Deregulation allowed the NINJA sub prime loans which were a total disaster and at one time categorized as predatory lending.
Banks in America weren't the only institutions harmed. Countries like Greenland and Greece were harmed.
The deregulation and sub prime loans are back. I don't know if the lending institutions have learned their lesson yet.
CRA wasn’t deregulation.
Lewdog
Gold Member
Trump's band of thieves is also hard at work on Wall Street "deregulation" as the Foreclosure King regularly demonstrates:
"Prudential Financial Traded as a Clone to the Big Wall Street Banks from October to December of Last Year. Prudential, green line, versus Citi, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank.
"By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: June 3, 2019 ~
"U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin (a/k/a the former foreclosure king) has been attempting to dismantle regulatory restraints on Wall Street’s worst instincts since he took office.
"Making Mnuchin even more dangerous is the fact that, under statute, he simultaneously sits as head of the Financial Stability Oversight Council (F-SOC) even as he appears to be attempting to undermine financial stability in the U.S.
"One of Mnuchin’s most alarming actions on behalf of F-SOC came last
October 17 when the Council announced that it was removing the designation of Prudential Financial as a SIFI – a Systemically Important Financial Institution that required enhanced supervision and prudential standards.
"Mnuchin stated at the time: “The Council’s decision today follows extensive engagement with the company and a detailed analysis showing that there is not a significant risk that the company could pose a threat to financial stability.”
"The chart above shows what happened to Prudential from the date of Mnuchin’s statement to the end of 2018.
"Its stock started sinking like a rock in a pattern that was so close to the trading pattern of Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank that they could have been clones of one another.
"What does Prudential have in common with those three banks?
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Mnuchin’s Dangerous Plan to Deregulate Wall Street Is Captured in this Chart
"Like them, it’s a major derivatives counterparty and on the hook for billions of dollars if derivatives blow up Wall Street again as they did in 2008."
Derivatives didn't blow up shit in 2008.Who told you that...
"The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time. These are complicated financial products that derive their value from an underlying asset or index. A good example of a derivative is a mortgage-backed security."
What role did mortgage-backed securities play in creating the Great Recession, Rube?
How Derivatives Could Trigger Another Financial Crisis
The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time.
Bullshit.
Fannie Mae resells the mortgage in a package of other mortgages on the secondary market. This is a mortgage-backed security. Its value is derived by the value of the mortgages in the bundle.
An MBS isn't a derivative, it's a bond.
Turn a pile of mortgages into a pile of MBS, you still have a pile of mortgages.Which derive their value from the underlying assets.
How Mortgage-Backed Securities Worked Until They Didn't
"Mortgage-backed securities are investments that are secured by mortgages.
"They’re a type of asset-backed security.
"A security is an investment that is traded on a secondary market.
"It allows investors to benefit from the mortgage business without ever having to buy or sell an actual home loan. Typical buyers of these securities include institutional, corporate or individual investors.
"When you invest in an MBS, you are buying the rights to receive the value of a bundle of mortgages. That includes the monthly payments and the repayment of the principal.
"Since it is a security, you can buy just a part of the mortgage. You receive an equivalent portion of the payments.
"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."
Exactly.
Deregulation allowed the lie that the bundles were safe and A prime rated because some of the loans were traditional loans and not likely to default. The bundles also contained a large amount of sub prime loans which were highly likely to default.
Deregulation allowed the NINJA sub prime loans which were a total disaster and at one time categorized as predatory lending.
Banks in America weren't the only institutions harmed. Countries like Greenland and Greece were harmed.
The deregulation and sub prime loans are back. I don't know if the lending institutions have learned their lesson yet.
You would think being able to buy and sell consumer debts would be against the law. Has it ever worked out for the good? I did however love the This Week Tonight episode where John Oliver bought a bunch of debt for pennies, then just forgave it.
- Moderator
- #116
This has been a long term trend. More people are shopping online and less have been going into brick and mortar stores as in the past. I rarely set foot in a mall anymore. I do all my clothes shopping online now. I'm not sure you conclusively point to this as bad economic news, although there are concerns about an economic downturn coming since the yield curve has inverted due to Trump's tariffs.
- Moderator
- #117
What lesson is to be learned when they know Democrats and Republicans will run to bail their asses out just like last time?
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
It absolutely is a derivative, when apportioned.
Cut a bond in half, it's still a bond.
And the fact that very few understood these apportions led to the credit freezes and bank bailouts.
Wrong. Nobody knew how much crappy debt banks had on their books. Mostly crappy mortgages.
Derivatives, when banks had them, were either offsetting, to a huge extent, or profitable CDS.
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Who told you that...
"The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time. These are complicated financial products that derive their value from an underlying asset or index. A good example of a derivative is a mortgage-backed security."
What role did mortgage-backed securities play in creating the Great Recession, Rube?
How Derivatives Could Trigger Another Financial Crisis
The real cause of the 2008 financial crisis was the proliferation of unregulated derivatives during that time.
Bullshit.
Fannie Mae resells the mortgage in a package of other mortgages on the secondary market. This is a mortgage-backed security. Its value is derived by the value of the mortgages in the bundle.
An MBS isn't a derivative, it's a bond.
Turn a pile of mortgages into a pile of MBS, you still have a pile of mortgages.Which derive their value from the underlying assets.
How Mortgage-Backed Securities Worked Until They Didn't
"Mortgage-backed securities are investments that are secured by mortgages.
"They’re a type of asset-backed security.
"A security is an investment that is traded on a secondary market.
"It allows investors to benefit from the mortgage business without ever having to buy or sell an actual home loan. Typical buyers of these securities include institutional, corporate or individual investors.
"When you invest in an MBS, you are buying the rights to receive the value of a bundle of mortgages. That includes the monthly payments and the repayment of the principal.
"Since it is a security, you can buy just a part of the mortgage. You receive an equivalent portion of the payments.
"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."
Exactly.
Deregulation allowed the lie that the bundles were safe and A prime rated because some of the loans were traditional loans and not likely to default. The bundles also contained a large amount of sub prime loans which were highly likely to default.
Deregulation allowed the NINJA sub prime loans which were a total disaster and at one time categorized as predatory lending.
Banks in America weren't the only institutions harmed. Countries like Greenland and Greece were harmed.
The deregulation and sub prime loans are back. I don't know if the lending institutions have learned their lesson yet.
You would think being able to buy and sell consumer debts would be against the law. Has it ever worked out for the good? I did however love the This Week Tonight episode where John Oliver bought a bunch of debt for pennies, then just forgave it.
You would think being able to buy and sell consumer debts would be against the law.
Why would you think that?
Has it ever worked out for the good?
When it allows for more liquid, efficient financial markets, yes.
Marianne
Diamond Member
Retailers are going to continue to go from bad to worse simply because millennials don't shop old school. We had an empty mall way before Trump. The malls here finally got wise and brought in something the millennials would go for. They are foodies which means the money is in restaurants and craft beer.
We are transitioning backwards as s consumer based society. We are back to catalog shopping via the internet, home delivery services and boutique shopping, pretty much the way people did things over 100 years ago before big box stores. Love to see butchers make a comeback. I remember my mother choosing the meat and having it trimmed right in front of her. The smell of saw dust and the big chunks of meat hanging on hooks in the refrigerator room, Bruno reminding me "no kids allowed in the back." I'd still sneak a peak. Yeah I'm old but the meat was better. Can't wait until foodies catch on to that old trend. lol
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