CDZ Democrats raise “POW/MIA“ flag ...

[Tom Paine 1949]

“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel” ... said that old Tory, friend of Adam Smith and Edward Gibbon, English language & Shakespeare scholar, Samuel Johnson.

As if to prove Democrats are scoundrels and opportunist lowlifes equal to our President, Democrats — including Elizabeth Warren — have climbed on the “POW/MIA” patriotic bandwagon.

A half century after Vietnam, after Iraq and Syria and Libya, now with a “professional army” backed by ever more mercenary “contractors,” the eternal POW/MIA imperialist victim fantasy and fake propaganda campaign, backed by one-up-man-ship to “Love Our Troops” (occupying or bombing foreign countries) continues. Here are two articles, the first a contemporary news item, the second a more thoughtful piece on our country’s addiction to militarist interventions:

Dems claim POW/MIA flag's move from atop White House to on-site memorial dishonors troops

President Trump is under fire this week from Democrats who claim he’s disrespected veterans by moving a POW/MIA flag from atop the White House to an on-site memorial.

At issue is the implementation of S.693 — the National POW/MIA Flag Act — which was signed into law in November and increases the frequency and locations the POW/MIA flag is flown on federal properties.

Bill sponsor Sen. Elizabeth Warren and other colleagues signed a letter framing the move as a sign of disrespect toward the military community....

Dems claim POW/MIA flag’s move from atop White House to on-site memorial dishonors troops

***

Trump vs. McCain: An American Horror Story

Why is Donald Trump deliberately picking a fight with the ghost of John McCain? It might seem he has nothing to gain and much to lose from this battle. Therefore many believe this is just more evidence of his narcissism, impulsiveness, and thoroughly nasty personality. Beware of underestimating Trump’s skillful and devious political acumen. As often, the president is speaking in coded language to his base, which regards McCain as the Judas who betrayed all those thousands of American POWs left behind in Vietnam....

Trump vs. McCain: an American Horror Story - CounterPunch.org

 

[Canon Shooter]

I'm a Veteran. This is not a sign of disrespect to the military community, regardless of how the failed Presidential candidate Hiawatha would like you to believe it is...

 

[Grumblenuts]

Yep, both sides remain repulsive.

 

[Coyote]

“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel” ... said that old Tory, friend of Adam Smith and Edward Gibbon, English language & Shakespeare scholar, Samuel Johnson.

As if to prove Democrats are scoundrels and opportunist lowlifes equal to our President, Democrats — including Elizabeth Warren — have climbed on the “POW/MIA” patriotic bandwagon.

A half century after Vietnam, after Iraq and Syria and Libya, now with a “professional army” backed by ever more mercenary “contractors,” the eternal POW/MIA imperialist victim fantasy and fake propaganda campaign, backed by one-up-man-ship to “Love Our Troops” (occupying or bombing foreign countries) continues. Here are two articles, the first a contemporary news item, the second a more thoughtful piece on our country’s addiction to militarist interventions:

Dems claim POW/MIA flag's move from atop White House to on-site memorial dishonors troops

President Trump is under fire this week from Democrats who claim he’s disrespected veterans by moving a POW/MIA flag from atop the White House to an on-site memorial.

At issue is the implementation of S.693 — the National POW/MIA Flag Act — which was signed into law in November and increases the frequency and locations the POW/MIA flag is flown on federal properties.

Bill sponsor Sen. Elizabeth Warren and other colleagues signed a letter framing the move as a sign of disrespect toward the military community....

Dems claim POW/MIA flag’s move from atop White House to on-site memorial dishonors troops

***

Trump vs. McCain: An American Horror Story

Why is Donald Trump deliberately picking a fight with the ghost of John McCain? It might seem he has nothing to gain and much to lose from this battle. Therefore many believe this is just more evidence of his narcissism, impulsiveness, and thoroughly nasty personality. Beware of underestimating Trump’s skillful and devious political acumen. As often, the president is speaking in coded language to his base, which regards McCain as the Judas who betrayed all those thousands of American POWs left behind in Vietnam....

Trump vs. McCain: an American Horror Story - CounterPunch.org

It all comes off as politics these days. The one good thing I seee happening is more veterans running for elected positions. I doubt it's politics for them.

 

[flacaltenn]

“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel” ... said that old Tory, friend of Adam Smith and Edward Gibbon, English language & Shakespeare scholar, Samuel Johnson.

As if to prove Democrats are scoundrels and opportunist lowlifes equal to our President, Democrats — including Elizabeth Warren — have climbed on the “POW/MIA” patriotic bandwagon.

A half century after Vietnam, after Iraq and Syria and Libya, now with a “professional army” backed by ever more mercenary “contractors,” the eternal POW/MIA imperialist victim fantasy and fake propaganda campaign, backed by one-up-man-ship to “Love Our Troops” (occupying or bombing foreign countries) continues. Here are two articles, the first a contemporary news item, the second a more thoughtful piece on our country’s addiction to militarist interventions:

Dems claim POW/MIA flag's move from atop White House to on-site memorial dishonors troops

President Trump is under fire this week from Democrats who claim he’s disrespected veterans by moving a POW/MIA flag from atop the White House to an on-site memorial.

At issue is the implementation of S.693 — the National POW/MIA Flag Act — which was signed into law in November and increases the frequency and locations the POW/MIA flag is flown on federal properties.

Bill sponsor Sen. Elizabeth Warren and other colleagues signed a letter framing the move as a sign of disrespect toward the military community....

Dems claim POW/MIA flag’s move from atop White House to on-site memorial dishonors troops

***

Trump vs. McCain: An American Horror Story

Why is Donald Trump deliberately picking a fight with the ghost of John McCain? It might seem he has nothing to gain and much to lose from this battle. Therefore many believe this is just more evidence of his narcissism, impulsiveness, and thoroughly nasty personality. Beware of underestimating Trump’s skillful and devious political acumen. As often, the president is speaking in coded language to his base, which regards McCain as the Judas who betrayed all those thousands of American POWs left behind in Vietnam....

Trump vs. McCain: an American Horror Story - CounterPunch.org

I'm not seeing any meaningful bandwagon.. But the overuse of "imperialistic" in terms of the military is real party pooper.. The military HAS BEEN "misused".. Just not to build an empire..

And certainly I've been consistently opposed to most of our interventions, but the WORSE pandering would dishonoring those who serve with the rhetoric in the first couple paragraphs of your OPost.. The 60's are over man...

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I'm not seeing any meaningful bandwagon.. But the overuse of "imperialistic" in terms of the military is real party pooper.. The military HAS BEEN "misused".. Just not to build an empire..

Well, the POW/MIA flag has been flying for four and half decades after the Vietnam War ended, and this particular propaganda bandwagon should have left town long ago. But no, it is still here, and the Democrats are — as my OP points out — now trying to squeeze into a seat on top.

Sorry I seem a “party pooper.” Actually in this I am a “two party” pooper.

The word “imperialism“ can be used in lots of ways, but it does need to be more than an epithet thrown around carelessly. It has its own history, and in the U.S. was used by no less an American than Mark Twain — a prominent supporter of the first “Anti-Imperialist Society” in the late 19th & early 20th century. Funny that the people of a country born in revolution against the British Empire, calling themselves “Americans” but practicing different forms of “Yankee imperialism” against their southern neighbors for more than a century, should find it almost impossible to comprehend any meaning of the word — except perhaps as a joke or “downer.”

Anybody ever wonder how many Vietnamese went “missing in action” in their own country ?

 

[flacaltenn]

Well, the POW/MIA flag has been flying for four and half decades after the Vietnam War ended, and this particular propaganda bandwagon should have left town long ago. But no, it is still here, and the Democrats are — as my OP points out — now trying to squeeze into a seat on top.

Vietnam is not the ONLY POW/MIA open issue.. We just got N. Korea to send some remains back that have been "held hostage" since the 50's.. Then we have those that can't even be mentioned. Members of US Intel operations that can only be honored at Langley, Pentagon and Ft Meade by the CIA, DIA, and NSA. HUNDREDS from the Intel wing MIA, maybe prisoners of foreign powers to this day.

The MIA flag is in a good place on WH South Lawn in a modest memorial site..

The word “imperialism“ can be used in lots of ways, but it does need to be more than an epithet thrown around carelessly. It has its own history, and in the U.S. was used by no less an American than Mark Twain — a prominent supporter of the first “Anti-Imperialist Society” in the late 19th & early 20th century. Funny that the people of a country born in revolution against the British Empire, calling themselves “Americans” but practicing different forms of “Yankee imperialism” against their southern neighbors for more than a century, should find it almost impossible to comprehend any meaning of the word — except perhaps as a joke or “downer.”

If ya got to go back to my best dude Twain and 19th century America to San Juan Hill and Teddy Roosevelt the Empire story is sadly pretty weak. So let's see.. Sum total of empire from Spanish American war...

1) We convinced Cuba to liberate itself from Spain.. Lots of trade and commerce -- no official empire.. And look at the mess that turned out to be..

2) Sank most of the Spanish fleet in Manilla Bay and took over the Phillipines for about 40 years.. Very short "empire".. And after at least 20 years of fighting insurgencies and bad blood, WW2 came around and we were their HEROES AGAIN rescuing them from the Japanese just prior to their full Independence..

3) Acquired Puerto Rico and Guam as territories which is the best deal these islands ever got.

Did I miss the REST of this Noam Chomsky wet dream about American Empire??? Mark Twain was justified in being concerned about Cuba and the Philipines at the time..

But guess what? We got mired in "Empire" at less cost and spent LESS TIME on it than our awful habit of trying to bring DEMOCRACY to parts of the world who didn't want it.. Especially the MidEast.. And VIETNAM..

You really can categorize Vietnam as "Empire building"?? That's a hard sell.. Since we didn't OWN Vietnam.. It was the spoils of WW2 that FRANCE got control of HALF of it.. And BELIEVE IT OR NOT -- Japan got control of the Northern half for awhile before the commies came in and secured it.. Most of the world's longest lasting problems are postwar treaties made in haste..

So -- when the French kissed French Indochina goodbye -- we went to fight the commies so that we wouldn't have to fight them at home.. Or some lame excuse like that.. Some harebrained theories about dominoes. You need MUCH MORE DEDICATION and DETERMINATION than that to have "an empire"...

It's not only lame to cast that word about -- it's also not really supportable..

 

[flacaltenn]

As a nation -- our misuse of the military has ALWAYS been to spread "democracy and freedom" like an army of evangelists without even ASSURING it here at home..

 

[flacaltenn]

Why is Donald Trump deliberately picking a fight with the ghost of John McCain? It might seem he has nothing to gain and much to lose from this battle. Therefore many believe this is just more evidence of his narcissism, impulsiveness, and thoroughly nasty personality. Beware of underestimating Trump’s skillful and devious political acumen. As often, the president is speaking in coded language to his base, which regards McCain as the Judas who betrayed all those thousands of American POWs left behind in Vietnam....

Wow.. That's bypassing a mountain of OBVIOUS reasons.. The "hate" stems from the fact that McCain was a leader of the Anti-Trumpers while Trump was STILL taking his Repub opponents down one by one in the Primary debates.. McCain is reportedly behind the FIRST Fusion GPS "anti-trump" dossier that was officially commissioned by an obscure Washington paper. THEN -- McCain gets hold of the STEELE dossier -- paid for by the DNC and Hillary -- and has a copy FLOWN to the FBI in Washington to make a HUGE SHOW OF IT -- at a time when Fusion GPS had already TRIED TO PUSH that POCrap to the media and the media wouldn't touch it..

Then there's McCain's vote that sunk the Repub "health care bill" -- Probably a GOOD THING -- but Trump held McCain responsible for that key vote..

Lots of reasons besides the contorted one of "speaking in tongues" to his base about POWs... That explanation hardly makes sense to grab McCain out of nowhere to push the POW/MIA button, because McCain WAS a POW... And whatever tirade Trump blasted McCain with about being captured reflects BADLY on EVERY POW/MIA.. Not even any LOGIC in that assertion that it's raw meat for "the base"...

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Well, the POW/MIA flag has been flying for four and half decades after the Vietnam War ended, and this particular propaganda bandwagon should have left town long ago. But no, it is still here, and the Democrats are — as my OP points out — now trying to squeeze into a seat on top.

Vietnam is not the ONLY POW/MIA open issue.. We just got N. Korea to send some remains back that have been "held hostage" since the 50's.. Then we have those that can't even be mentioned. Members of US Intel operations that can only be honored at Langley, Pentagon and Ft Meade by the CIA, DIA, and NSA. HUNDREDS from the Intel wing MIA, maybe prisoners of foreign powers to this day.

The MIA flag is in a good place on WH South Lawn in a modest memorial site..

The word “imperialism“ can be used in lots of ways, but it does need to be more than an epithet thrown around carelessly. It has its own history, and in the U.S. was used by no less an American than Mark Twain — a prominent supporter of the first “Anti-Imperialist Society” in the late 19th & early 20th century. Funny that the people of a country born in revolution against the British Empire, calling themselves “Americans” but practicing different forms of “Yankee imperialism” against their southern neighbors for more than a century, should find it almost impossible to comprehend any meaning of the word — except perhaps as a joke or “downer.”

If ya got to go back to my best dude Twain and 19th century America to San Juan Hill and Teddy Roosevelt the Empire story is sadly pretty weak. So let's see.. Sum total of empire from Spanish American war...

1) We convinced Cuba to liberate itself from Spain.. Lots of trade and commerce -- no official empire.. And look at the mess that turned out to be..

2) Sank most of the Spanish fleet in Manilla Bay and took over the Phillipines for about 40 years.. Very short "empire".. And after at least 20 years of fighting insurgencies and bad blood, WW2 came around and we were their HEROES AGAIN rescuing them from the Japanese just prior to their full Independence..

3) Acquired Puerto Rico and Guam as territories which is the best deal these islands ever got.

Did I miss the REST of this Noam Chomsky wet dream about American Empire??? Mark Twain was justified in being concerned about Cuba and the Philipines at the time..

But guess what? We got mired in "Empire" at less cost and spent LESS TIME on it than our awful habit of trying to bring DEMOCRACY to parts of the world who didn't want it.. Especially the MidEast.. And VIETNAM..

You really can categorize Vietnam as "Empire building"?? That's a hard sell.. Since we didn't OWN Vietnam.. It was the spoils of WW2 that FRANCE got control of HALF of it.. And BELIEVE IT OR NOT -- Japan got control of the Northern half for awhile before the commies came in and secured it.. Most of the world's longest lasting problems are postwar treaties made in haste..

So -- when the French kissed French Indochina goodbye -- we went to fight the commies so that we wouldn't have to fight them at home.. Or some lame excuse like that.. Some harebrained theories about dominoes. You need MUCH MORE DEDICATION and DETERMINATION than that to have "an empire"...

It's not only lame to cast that word about -- it's also not really supportable..

You don’t even try to understand. I am obviously here writing about modern financial imperialism, not an old-fashioned “empire” of direct occupation or colonial control. My OP is not about “Empire” per se or even imperialism. I specifically said in my short comment to you that the word “imperialism” can have different meanings. In Chomsky — if you ever read him — different kinds of imperialism are put in historical context. My comment and the brilliant Bruce Franklin article all discuss one of many U.S. ideological obsessions: the “POW/MIA imperialist victim fantasy.” From Rambo movies to Rolling Thunder motorcycle demonstrations in D.C., to flying the black POW/MIA flag alongside the American flag on holidays and at veterans events all over the country, we see a propaganda meme that makes more likely the “misuse of the military” you yourself sometimes recognize.

There is much more that can be said — about intentionality, about our mistakes in how we viewed (and ultimately supported) French colonial troops opposing the communist-led anti-colonial struggle, about how our own anti-Soviet Cold War fervor — not simple “Empire building” — led to the Vietnam War. But that is beyond the scope of this OP. Similarly, we are not living in the days of the Roman Republic, or the Roman “Empire.” We are not even living in the “Age of Enlightenment,” in the time of Tom Paine, when George Washington could muse about establishing “An Empire of Liberty” on the North American continent. Words have to be used carefully, and in context. Otherwise we might as well just scream at each other about Trump vs. Biden, Democrats vs. Republicans, as so many do, without looking deeper at the delusions both sides share.

 

[theHawk]

Dems are virtue signaling as if they care about vets, POWs, and our military.

Meanwhile their legions have defaced several war memorials: