Democrat Senator Jeanne Shahan - Ukraine doesn't have to be at the table literally (paraphrase)

[Seymour Flops]

Her exact words: "making sure that Ukraine is at the table, whether literally, or however those negotiations work out."

6:45



That's quite a concession comming from a senior Democrat considering that lately, Democrats seem hardly distinguishable from diplomatic envoys for Zelensky. I would have thought that was the one thing they would hold firm on, but now they seem to be seeking a face-saving explanation if Trump does not invite Zelensky to sit with him and Putin.

I would have thought they would fall back on "Zelensky would not be safe in the same room with Putin. He might tear Putin's head off with his bare hands and be killed by Putin's security!"

If Zelensky were the elected leader of Ukraine, I might fault Trump for leaving him out. As it stands, he is nothing more than a U.S. puppet, and the puppeteer does not let his puppets sit in on negotations with theater owners.

 

[rightwinger]

It comes down to who has a Dog in the Fight

Ukraine does
Russia does
Europe does
US does

Any attempt at negotiation that doesn’t include all the players is doomed to fail

 

[1srelluc]

What it tells me is that the dems have written off Ukraine as a source of funding.....It's the likes of Queen Lindsey and the old-ass RINOs with fat PACs from the MIC that will be the problem.

 

[Seymour Flops]

It comes down to who has a Dog in the Fight

Ukraine does
Russia does
Europe does
US does

Any attempt at negotiation that doesn’t include all the players is doomed to fail

How does the U.S. have a dog in that fight?

Will you admit that you were wrong if Trump and Putin negotiate a deal and Zelensky accepts it?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Her exact words: "making sure that Ukraine is at the table, whether literally, or however those negotiations work out."

6:45



That's quite a concession comming from a senior Democrat considering that lately, Democrats seem hardly distinguishable from diplomatic envoys for Zelensky. I would have thought that was the one thing they would hold firm on, but now they seem to be seeking a face-saving explanation if Trump does not invite Zelensky to sit with him and Putin.

I would have thought they would fall back on "Zelensky would not be safe in the same room with Putin. He might tear Putin's head off with his bare hands and be killed by Putin's security!"

If Zelensky were the elected leader of Ukraine, I might fault Trump for leaving him out. As it stands, he is nothing more than a U.S. puppet, and the puppeteer does not let his puppets sit in on negotations with theater owners.

Zelensky is no longer able to pay her

 

[rightwinger]

How does the U.S. have a dog in that fight?

Will you admit that you were wrong if Trump and Putin negotiate a deal and Zelensky accepts it?

We have been supporting Ukraine for three years
We paid our dues

It will depend on the deal

 

[Seymour Flops]

We have been supporting Ukraine for three years
We paid our dues

It will depend on the deal

I understand the logic, but it is really a fallacy called the "sunk costs fallacy."

For years now, we have been sending money and equipment to Ukraine, so we have to keep sending more or what we've sent so far will ahve been wasted. That's bad logic.

The way to break the cycle is a deal.

You cannot seriously think that Putin will accept a deal that says, "Russia gets out of Ukrain, and . . . and nothing, end of story."

There are Republicans and Democrats in Congress, especially the Senate, who are perfectly happy for the war to be endless since they are profiting from it, and being given campaign cash by the arms manufacturers. They don't care about the Ukrainians dying for their enrichment scheme.