Readily countered, as we see from many of the latter day neo-Nazis around the world, but not "debunked" !
āIsrael is surrounded by enemies.ā
They have been for most of their modern existence. Just look at the forces arrayed against them in the 1948 war, and the next few rematch wars. True that Jordan and Egypt have chilled a bit and currently at peaces with Israel, but political factions in power could easily change in those nations back to regimes with a harsh anti-Israel position. There are still enough enemies in the region and around the world for Israel to remain on guard and ready for decades into the future.
ā if Hamas layed down their weapons, there will be peace, if Israel set down their weapons, Israel will be annihilatedā.
Well, there's more than Hamas out there gunning for Israel. There is Hezbollah to the North and Iran as well, which recently tried to bombard Israel with over 300 air-attack weapons. And an assortment of Islamic Jihad organizations which keep Israel on the top of their target lists.
Interesting that you focus only on the Palestinians, and note the many other enemies of Israel, whom do have tanks and warplanes at their disposal. Hamas/Palestinians do have rockets and missiles which they had been shooting at Israel for years now.
But it's not just Hamas, or "Palestinians" that are the only threat to Israel, so even if Hamas "layed down there weapons" there would still be no peace, or end to random attacks from the other factions of Islamic Jihad that want to see Israel destroyed. Remember, since 1948 the war/conflict hasn't really ended, only had short periods of low intensity while the aggressors rebuild weapons inventories, etc. and there are still too many who want the land of Israel returned to the Dar al-Islam. Israel will have to be on guard and ready to defend for a long time still.
While Israel has some of the most sophisticated weapons in human hands on this planet, they aren't invincible, nor have all the quality and quantity of nations like the USA, or CCP China, or Russia, etc.
Hamas(Palestinians), Hezbollah, ISIS, etc. are just the canon-fodder in this perpetual conflict. They are just the pawns on the game board so to speak. And Israel is a small nation with a relatively small population compared to it's enemies. Much of the military are reservists whom if activated, aren't doing their jobs, running their businesses to keep the economy going. Whereas Hamas and others have larger, full-time and paid cadre' to always call upon. Those petro-dollar$ at work ....
āOct 7 oct 7 oct 7āāā
True the conflict goes back for decades, longer actually (like millennia). But this was the most recent and bloodiest, and most horrifying display of hatred for Jews since the Holocaust. It's possible that Intel failures made the surprise attack possible, but the disarming of the public, Israel's own misapplied "gun control" might be partly (largely?) to blame since many of the civilian targets had no firearms and other weapons to respond with in their defense.
It's sheer pravda propaganda to think Israel created or maintained Hamas, or any other Islamic Jihad org. Israel may have made a mistake in thinking Hamas could be negotiated and reasoned with mad Israel may have tried to play politics using Hamas to counter other Palestinian/Islamic enemies, but Israel wouldn't have the resources to waste on supporting an enemy, nor anything to gain with doing a false-flag sort of attack to be a caus belli.
āIslam is the problemā ā-
Sorry Charlie, but Islam is the problem, has been for about 1400 years now. While Mohammad might have thought he was just starting a religion to unite his Arab people, it wasn't long before that project got larger than planned. Mohammad himself, in one of his final instructions, revelations said he'd been commanded by Allah/Gawd to convert the whole world, all humanity to Islam. By whatever means available, including conquest and forced conversions. For that matter, Islamic scriptures describe Paradise/Heaven as multiple levels and the higher levels with more and greater rewards can only be attained via results in battle against the infidels = non-Muslims. In essence, Islam was set-up to be a source for perpetual warfare until the whole planet has been converted, accepts Allah.
Another relevant aspect of Islam is that any lands once under Islamic control, Sharia Law, etc. is to be considered always an Islamic land, part of the Dar al-Islam ~ World of Islam. If that land is taken by others, lost, then it must be returned to Dar al-Islam. When I show maps of Islamic conquest, later in another post, it will be enlightening to see what lands once under Islam, but not so at the moment, will be on the future target lists. For now though, the Levant ~ Israel/Palestine is the major focus, primary target.
ā antisemitism is on the rise in the USAā
Not just in the USA, but around the world it appears. And quibbling over semantics is another form of gaslighting. Common usage of the term has meant "anti-Jewish" for decades now. Just another aspect of the imprecise and sloppy language often used. We say healthcare, but seldom use it to mean actual "taking care of one's health" = good nutrition, exercise, plenty of sleep , healthy lifestyle, etc.; often it also means "medical treatment" or "medical care insurance". "Climate change" dialogue is another example. Seldom is it clarified if it is Natural or Human Caused that is the topic focus, just like the addition of "denier" seldom clarifies either of those poles.
The deaths in Gaza are the fault of Hamas for hiding among the civilians and using them as human shields. Insult to injury is how this killing of civilians caused by Hamas' actions is allowed to distract from the butchery Hamas did on Oct. 7 to start this whole escalation. Hamas and Hezbollah are proxy military for Iran. Similar to what the US dealt with in Iraq during it's al-Sadr insurrection after Saddam's regime had been disposed of. The airstrike attempt by Iran using drones, ballistic missiles and cruise missile, totaling about 320, could have been a very lethal blow had Israel not had the anti-missile capabilities it did.
Thanks to the Obama and now Biden Administrations in the POTUS, lifting sanctions and unfreezing assets, Iran may have it's nuclear bomb within the year and then things will get very messy in the Middle East. Unless Israel, or "someone" makes an effective aerial attack on Iran's nuclear weapon production facilities.
The Jews aren't out to convert the world to Judism. After the way they were treated 80 years ago, they just want their homeland back and to be left alone in peace. Unfortunately, they seem to be a focus of powers and interests , mostly malevolent, who treat them as a threat far beyond what they are , or would want to be. I'm not a religious person, but increasingly it looks like there are agencies beyond humans alone, that have an interest in this situation and may be stirring the pot for their own purposes.
Unfortunately, we (this whole world) are entering those cursed "Interesting Times".
A lot of well thought out points, my friend. In response, one can say that in the ancient Judaism, it was a religion of proselytization. Now not so much.
I doubt that most Iranian people even want to go to war with Israel. Itās the Islamic government of Iran, which the western world allowed to come to power 1979. Iranians are very cultured people with a beautiful Persian history. Under the shah they the Iranian women dressed however they wanted to they were allied to the west. Even to this very day tons of women in Iran no longer wear a head scarf. a lot of of the propaganda that Israel and Neo con Americans puts out about Iran is despicable and has nothing to do with the truth. The problem is the Iranian Islamic government not the Iranian people. if the West was not so hypocritical, they wouldnāt devote tons of military resources to Ukraine they would devote some of those resources to getting rid of the Islamic government in Iran. There is still a level of popularity in Iran that want a return to the monarchy. The Iranian monarchy under the shah was actually allied to Israel.
As for the October 7 attack no it cannot be defined as an attack against āthe Jewsā a lot of controversy there by the way when people use that term āthe Jewsā, what does it mean? What are they talking about. Well many have said that there is no race by Judaism, but only a religion including Jews themselves. Keep in mind it was the white Christians from the third Reich, which attempted to denote Jews as a race and they wiped out 6 million Jews something that is by far and wide the greatest attack on people identifying as Jewish or whoever the third reich identified is Jews. Nothing comes close to it, and it really is wrong for modern people to attempt to equate anyone modern to the third reich .
Ok Ron Paul and others in the USA have suggested that Israel created and maintain Hamas, or they felt that it was going to be a bul work against the more secular oriented PLO. Slowing down and looking at things Think about how it benefits Israel to have an enemy like him. More people in the western world would be inclined to support Israel or Palestine because of Hamas being a father right wing conservative religious group. As a post to the more secular nature of Arab nationalism, which supported the Palestinian cause. Itās something to critically think about and you from a non-bias perspective. It has to be considered and included in your thoughts that historically speaking christians from Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and all over the Arab world have been supportive of the Palestinian cause in the 20th century. Just like it must be considered and included in my thoughts that Christians in the western world have been supportive of the cause of Israel.
Weāve been hearing about āIran getting the bombā for 40 years. Itās ridiculous. Itās getting tiring hearing this propaganda constantly. Maybe the USA shouldāve done more to support Iraq as we were allied with Iraq in the 1980s against Iran. Ironically Israel helped Islamic Iran bomb the Iraqi nuclear facility in the 1980s. might as well talk about the danger of Israel having a nuclear weapon. We live in a world where Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons but havenāt used them against each other even though there is a rivalry between two countries. Thatās just a world we live in some countries have nuclear weapons. if people want to criticize one country for having a nuclear weapon in it being dangerous, they would have to supply the same logic to Israel and their nuclear program.
Also oct7 it cannot be viewed as an attack against Jewsā¦. by who by Muslims, by Hamas.?? Certainly Hamas did attack Israeli people. And itās very controversial about how it happened again. You have conservatives like Charlie Kirk saying a stand down order may have been given by the IDF. Who attacked israelis ??? it was Hamas. It wasnāt all Muslims even though some people would make that implication. Because for example, thereās something like 15,000 Jews living in Iran if there was some kind of a attempt to wipeout Jews, those 15,000 Jews in Iran would be wiped out by now, but they are clearly not. They are in fact, a part of the Iranian military and Iranian political atmosphere. Thereās also also something like 20!,000 Jews living in Turkey.
Thereās controversy about Irans drone attack against Israelā¦ but it does show us the cemented fact that Israel is surrounded by allies ā¦we can see that Jordan and Saudi Arabia helped to shoot down some of those Iranian drones. Now to your point, it is fair and true to say that 75 years ago or perhaps 50 years ago Israel had a lot more enemies in the region. But when you hear the line that today āIsrael is surrounded by enemiesā, that is something from decades ago that for some reason Israeli lobbyist are continuing to use and itās inappropriate. Because a lot of other supporters of Israel are now acknowledging the facts on the ground that they have Muslim allies. Even Saudi Arabia might become an ally with Israel. Now knowing this how does it sound when somebody starts to criticize or make fun of Islam?? That doesnāt make any sense. Considering that Iāve even seen Israeli Jews on this forum be happy about going to visit the gulf countries after the Abraham accords.
Well you are someone who is very informed. So words and definitions do matter. Anti-Semitism denotes negative attitudes towards Semitic people which includes Arabs of all backgrounds, Middle Eastern people inclusive of Jews, atheists, and Christians. And Muslims. People really should start using the term Anti Jewish. Itās more appropriate if they are talking about negative perception of Jews.. I completely understand that in the mass media discourse people use the term antisemitism and they are technically wrong. I know what they are talking about, I understand itās a matter of sementics, but Iām simply pointing out facts.
By the way as for ww2 the Jewish faith all over the world is eternally thankful to the heroes from the Soviet Union, from England and from America, who in the European theater liberated the concentration camps and ended the holocaust. They played a direct role in defeating the German army and their allies. I am a Catholic and an American patriot and I am forever thankful to the allies of World War II including the 500,000 Jews, who fought for the Soviet union and the many Jews who fought for England and America.
As For Islam. Well it is a religion of honor and integrity of my opinion. I see the same thing about Christianity and Judaism. Remember that thousands of years ago, Judaism was a similar religion to Islam and Christianity in terms of using a military to take over land. Actually, Judaism is far more close to Islam and Christianity is to Islam. It cannot be denied. Both Jews and Muslims do not consume pork for religious reasons. David had multiple wives just as Muhammad did. Muslims did spread Islam by the so-called sword. So did Christians. I mean, after all Christianity is found all over the world sometimes it were spread by the sword, but sometimes in a peaceful matter, same with Islam.
People in the USA who to claim to support conservative values and yet criticize Islam have no leg to stand on. Especially with all of the degenerate filth we have in America. Men playing on womenās sports teams, men going into womenās bathrooms. It is filth. None of that exists in the Muslim world by large.
I donāt understand what itās like to hold a hatred of a religion. It doesnāt make any logical sense nor is it healthy. Again I do not hold Judaism in a negative light so I canāt be accused of that. But for people who hold Islam in a negative light, they are in fact hypocrites if they want to play some anti-Semitic card or complain about how they perceived Jews to being treated if they are themselves treating Muslims negatively by for example, claiming Islam as a violent religion. Thatās not fair. Itās not appropriate behavior.
I know of authors who wrote about the middle ages such as the French historian Renee Grousett ā¦ who spoke about how the Catholic Crusaders set up the Catholic kingdom of Jerusalem over 1000 years ago. It was a state where Jews Muslims and Christians were treated with respect contrary to what even some Christians claim today about how the āCrusaders were violent.ā I can back up what Iām saying with historical facts.
I support the legacy of the Christian states of the Middle East. Of the Crusader states. Their honor and integrity thatās how I feel as a Catholic. Interestingly enough, I have seen modern day supporters of Israel and Palestine, insults or criticized our Christian ancestors who created the crusader states sing that they were bloodthirsty or anti-Semitic. Thatās not true and history supports my views all you have to do is look at the links in my signature.
I understand itās a different time we are living in ā¦itās not the Middle Ages and I have already said I support Israelās right to exist. And I support Palestine right to exist. Actually, I support a one state solution. Itās the best way forward. Anything else is going to simply continue the status quo. But also the USA should not be involved in the war. It has no effect on the regular lives of American people. The USA should be neutral like we were in the Spanish Civil War. We can maintain alliances with multiple Middle Eastern countries like Israel, Saudi Arabia thatās fine.
As for the conflict in Gaza. It might be the case that Palestinians have access to rockets. Those are low quality rockets that are intercepted by Israelās iron dome. If Palestinians had access to weapons, strong enough to penetrate the iron dome, it will be a different discussion, but they donāt. And this is not a one-way conflict. There is a reason why some number of Palestinians want to launch military strikes against Israel itās because some number of Palestinians have been killed by Israelis and vice versa. Pro Israel people attempt to paint this as a one-way conflict that is entirely absurd. This goes back to 1948. Just there have been conflicts all throughout the world between different types of people when there is a conflict people fight each other. It is undeniable that there are good and bad people on both sides when it comes to Israel Palestine, I am not a hypocrite. I am common sense. I can recognize humanity and I can recognize the facts without playing some ridiculous one-sided game. Especially as an American Iām not Jewish, Iām not Muslim. Iām not Israeli. Iām not Palestinian. so all of us is Americans a should look at the conflict in the Middle East as neutral as possible.
The undeniable bottom line is there is no comparing the so-called military of hamas to the military of Israel. And for all of the talk that countries like turkey and Iran do theyāve done nothing against Israel. The drone attacks donāt really count to my view because everybody knew it was coming. They did no damage. Now it would be different if Iran or Turkey launched an airstrike against Tel Aviv or sent in 100,000 troops to march into Israel of course they havenāt done it. All they do is talk a big game but do nothing. Israel does whatever it Wants in Gaza with no repercussion. That is Israelās choice, but they come off as hypocrites and crybabies when they complain about how the world is treating them nobodyās doing anything to them. Doesnāt matter that people on college campuses are protesting against Israel, they are powerless to do anything.
I mean itās been what seven or eight months since October 7. It doesnāt really matter so much that Iran has a military. Certainly it is no longer a talking point the military of Jordan or Egypt might attack Israel . They are not going to attack Israel. For crying out loud Jordan intercepted Iranian drones intended for Israel. Itās absurd to suggest Israel is surrounded by enemies so Iām not saying you are. Iām talking to the propagandists who claim āIsrael is surrounded by enemiesā when they are not. Especially in light of the Abraham accords and the tremendous level of diplomacy between Israel and Muslim majority countries under Donald Trump.
As for the issue of anti-Jewish behavior in the USA, which the media and many organizations erroneously referred to as antisemitism. No, it is simply not going to cut it. Just because some pot smoking hippies on college campuses are complaining about Israel. It does not constitute antisemitism. You might even find a few people with swastikas there. Who knows who they are are they undercover agents even if they are not it doesnāt matter theyāre powerless to do anything. The fact is that a country is big as America with their ongoing drug and mental health issues we have had a level of racism against numerous groups and discrimination against the religious groups, all throughout our history. But the great great majority of American people are good people. They are not bigoted. Theyāre not going to attack people based on how they look or their religion. Such anti-religious or racism is a worldwide issue. And itās a much bigger issue around the world compared to in America.
