Debt-free college: Where the 2020 presidential candidates stand

I’m for debt free college if I can get back what I paid 35 years ago at 4% compounded interest. Even Steven there hand out crowd?
 
IOW, you want to make a college degree about as worthless as a public high school diploma now is. That's what will happen if you make college "free."

Why don't liberals ever call for federal controls on these exorbitant college tuition rates and unearned six--digit "faculty" salaries? You wanna control education costs, you could start there.

Before the federal government got so heavily involved, a college degree meant something, and college tuition rates were a fraction of what they are now (adjusted for inflation).
There is certainly a correlation between the increases in federal student financial aid an increases in college cost. However, correlation is not the same as cause and effect. Increases in federal student financial aid has generally followed the increases in college costs. I have no doubt that federal financial aid to students has contributed to cost increase. However, there are many other factors that have also increased college cost.


Have costs increased at colleges and universities as far as personnel? Are there more, and more highly paid administrators than there were during the 1970's? Are professors paid considerably more? How much would a university have to pay a professor in Gay Studies anyhow? It isn't like they have plenty of opportunities in the private sector. The price of college books have also soared, while other books have not with all the competition out there in non academia.
 
Your colleges are also sitting on huge endowments that are growing constantly. Why can't Harvard use that money to reduce tuition to reasonable levels? When I was in college, I could have never afforded it and neither can many in the Middle Class.
 
A good employee shows no loyalty to an employer in today's America. Employers do not recognize loyal employees. Be ready to leave...no notice....for a better job.

Depends on who you work for. Pick your employers wisely.
 
IOW, you want to make a college degree about as worthless as a public high school diploma now is. That's what will happen if you make college "free."

Why don't liberals ever call for federal controls on these exorbitant college tuition rates and unearned six--digit "faculty" salaries? You wanna control education costs, you could start there.

Before the federal government got so heavily involved, a college degree meant something, and college tuition rates were a fraction of what they are now (adjusted for inflation).
There is certainly a correlation between the increases in federal student financial aid an increases in college cost. However, correlation is not the same as cause and effect. Increases in federal student financial aid has generally followed the increases in college costs. I have no doubt that federal financial aid to students has contributed to cost increase. However, there are many other factors that have also increased college cost.


Have costs increased at colleges and universities as far as personnel? Are there more, and more highly paid administrators than there were during the 1970's? Are professors paid considerably more? How much would a university have to pay a professor in Gay Studies anyhow? It isn't like they have plenty of opportunities in the private sector. The price of college books have also soared, while other books have not with all the competition out there in non academia.
Financial Aid (federal loans, federal grants, state grants, and scholarships) enables costs to rise but it's not why cost have risen. According to a comprehensive study the American Institutes for Research here are the major reasons:

  • Researchers said, the most significant reason why college costs have risen over the last 10 years is deep budget cuts in state funding for public higher education and shrinking subsidies at private schools thus pushing a greater share of the cost onto students and their families.
  • Schools continue to compete for students by working to attract top faculty, build and maintain the latest facilities and offer the next generation of students amenities that can be touted on campus tours for prospective applicants, climbing walls, movie theaters, expanded ethnic restaurants, salt water swimming pools, health clubs, ect. Student Services is now 20% of college budgets.
  • Sports has also been a major contributor to rising costs. Large budget increase to support intramural sports and the addition of many Intercollegiate sports that can't support themselves.
  • Higher education payrolls have also been rapidly adding non-teaching jobs in recent years. Public and private colleges and universities expanded their payrolls by 28 percent between 2000 and 2012
  • Teaching salaries, one of the biggest single line items, have remained relatively flat
The real reasons a college degree costs so much
 
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Your colleges are also sitting on huge endowments that are growing constantly. Why can't Harvard use that money to reduce tuition to reasonable levels? When I was in college, I could have never afforded it and neither can many in the Middle Class.

If they didn't use that money for R&D, where would the government get the phony claims about climate change?
 
'A clear divide exists among 2020 presidential Democrats who are rolling out plans to tackle the student debt crisis, whether tuition-free or debt-free policies are the way to win voter support.

By the numbers: Student debt in the United States has reached $1.5 trillion, and is responsible for much of millennials and generation Z's anguish.

In Congress
  • Congressional committees have launched hearings to reauthorize the Higher Education Act, which looks to discuss more affordability in college costs, student loan programs and more. Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii) and Rep. Mark Pocan (D-Wisc.) reintroduced legislation to help students become debt free within 5 years of graduating.
Tuition free
These programs provide students 2 years of free tuition at participating state community colleges, associate-degree programs and vocational schools. The majority fall into the category of "last dollar" scholarships, indicating the program pays the difference in tuition after financial aid and grants have kicked in, per CNBC.

  • Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is still running on his 2016 campaign promise to make college tuition free and debt free. In 2016, Sanders introduced a bill called the "College for All Act," making public college tuition-free to students through a partnership between the federal government.
  • Former HUD Secretary Julián Castro supports tuition-free college.
  • Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) wants to eliminate tuition and fees at 4-year public colleges and universities. She also supports free community college tuition for everyone.
  • New-age spiritual guru Marianne Williamson supports universal pre-school and free college.
Debt free
This idea aims to cover the costs associated with attending public college without requiring students to take out loans, by establishing federal matches for state spending on higher education and using those funds to fill unmet need for people pursuing degrees

  • Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) is running her campaign on students being debt free by using proceeds from her wealth tax. Warren is a co-sponsor for the Schatz-Pocan bill and the Sanders bill. She has sponsored and co-sponsored several others including one in 2014 that allowed federal student loan borrowers to refinance their debt at a lower interest rate.
  • Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.): She believes universal pre-K and college should be a "fundamental right," to be debt-free, The Atlantic reports. She is a co-sponsor for the Schatz-Pocan bill and the Sanders bill.
  • Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.): Introduced a bill in 2018 for baby bonds, which attempted to close the racial-wealth gap in education. Booker is a co-sponsor for the Schatz-Pocan bill.
  • Former Texas representative Beto O’Rourke has supported debt-free ideals. In 2018, he tweeted: "We should allow Texans who commit to working in in-demand fields and in underserved communities the chance to graduate debt free." O`Rourke co-sponsored Student Loan Affordability Act until 2015.
  • Former tech executive Andrew Yang: Debt forgiveness plans and loan repayment plans, according to his campaign website.
Refinance student loans
  • Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) rejected the idea of tuition-free college at a CNN town hall, but called for has called for free 2-year community college degrees. She offered up the idea to refinance loans and expand Pell grants.
  • Former representative John Delaney has called for reforming bankruptcy laws so student loan debt can be discharged like all other debts as well as refinancing.
Mixed statements
  • Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) is a co-sponsor for the Schatz-Pocan bill and the Sanders bill. In February, she tweeted she'd "allow all students to refinance their loans at 4%" if she were elected president.'
Debt-free college: Where the 2020 presidential candidates stand


I can understand universal healthcare and the $15 minimum wage (I don't fully agree with them - but I can certainly understand the logic behind them).

But this is just bat shit nuts.

No one put a fucking gun to these students heads to go massively into debt...it was 100% their choosing. Why the 'f' do students suddenly deserve to have their tuition paid off by taxpayers? Why this generation and not previous generations? And what makes student loans more important then mortgages? Or business loans? Why have taxpayers pay off student loans but do nothing for low income people with heavy mortgages/debts or business loans (NOT that I am for paying those off either - but at least they make far more sense then just paying off student loans)? What is fucking next? Progressives want taxpayers to pay off their credit cards? Car payments? Gambling debts?

This is progressives being flat out selfish. Many progressives are under 30 with HUGE student debt. So naturally their first thought is themselves.

I will say it again - HELLO? You people voluntarily took the huge student loans. You have no one to blame for them but yourselves. They are 100% YOUR responsibility. Stop pawning your bad decisions on to the rest of America. You fucked up - you get yourselves out of it. It's called 'taking responsibility for your actions'. DUH.
Maybe students should stop having to pay for Directors of Lesbian Diversity making $164K with 30 staff members.
 
Those are the few and far minority. And if an employer is going to pay such a pittance that one can't afford a house they are lucky to find a good employee.

If you think your ability to afford what you want is your employer's responsibility instead of yours, you are lucky to find anyone to employ you at all, and you will NEVER find anyone who considers you "good".
IMHO, education as well as health insurance should be the responsibility of the employee, not the employer because it is the employee who benefits most. Job turnover is far to fast to expect employers to provide such benefits. Remunerations should be in the form of wages, not retirement, healthcare, or education.

I mostly agree, although I will point out that every employer I've ever encountered that had tuition reimbursement had it written into the agreement that they only paid in full if you remained employed by them for X number of years. Otherwise, you became responsible for some or all of the tuition costs. My sister is studying for her Master's in Hospital Administration right now under a plan like that, because the hospital would prefer to promote from within if they can.
 
As long as people repay the loan, they can waste it however they like. Just don't whine at me afterward that you graduated college and can't find a job.


The problem is that a lot of these deadbeats aren't repaying their loans. Its tough for the government to really muscle these people around and get the money back. That's why I would suggest subbing out the loans to shylocks who are better at that kind of thing.

Seems to me government has an easier time muscling them than most people, since the government doesn't have to go through nearly the hassle that private lenders do. If nothing else, they can and will simply take any and all tax refunds and apply them to a defaulted loan. And they sure as shit can track you down more easily than a private lender can.

I can think of a lot of reasons to object to federal student loans, if I'm so inclined, but repayment rates aren't really among them.
And don't forget wage garnishments which can be done without court order up to 15% of pay. Bankruptcy is no protection because student loans are not forgiven.

Student should always accept federal subsidize loans above other loan types because the interest rate is almost always lower, Interest does not accrue until months after leaving school and payment can be delayed for various reason. Other types of loans accrue interest from the day money is drawn. However, subsidize loans are granted based on need.

Okay, but doesn't it still cost taxpayers money by losing that interest? I mean, if applied that money to our national debt, it would reduce the interest money we owe.

I suppose you could look at it as extra income we aren't getting, but technically, it doesn't COST us anything. And realistically, it might actually cost taxpayers more, in that beginning interest accrual immediately would conceivably increase the likelihood of default.
 
Your colleges are also sitting on huge endowments that are growing constantly. Why can't Harvard use that money to reduce tuition to reasonable levels? When I was in college, I could have never afforded it and neither can many in the Middle Class.

I'd have to look into it, but I believe endowments are earmarked for specific purposes by the people making them. The university wouldn't have any discretion over what that money is spent on.
 
A good employee shows no loyalty to an employer in today's America. Employers do not recognize loyal employees. Be ready to leave...no notice....for a better job.

Depends on who you work for. Pick your employers wisely.

Personally, I'm quite loyal to and personally invested in my employer, which is one reason why I'm considered such a valued employee.

Doesn't mean I won't EVER leave, but it does mean I'm not gonna do it on a whim, or that I would do it without trying to minimize the problems it would cause the company.
 
It’s not free

It’s deciding how we spend our general revenue. Should we help the people or should you spend on a military deployed tens of thousand of miles away?

It’s all about priorities
How about we not spend it on anything and let the people keep their money.
You Resent Being Dependent on High IQs; That's Why You Humiliate Us and Wind Up Losing Our Wealth-Production

Where do you think their money comes from? And there'd be a lot more of it coming there way if people with productive natural talent were paid up front instead of sacrificing their youth to get a job that they were owed from the beginning.

Nothing irritates me more than some self-important person, staring at his own reflection in a mirror, saying they were 'owed' something.
You Jealous Bootlickers Will Be the Reason There Will Once Again Be No More Brain-Created Progress

You are, of course, referring to the King Ape plutocratic parasites who think I owed them submission to educational servitude to prove that I was humiliated enough to let those inferior minds make all their wealth off me. Only we are smart enough to hack into what they stole from our manhood-deprived predecessors and not get caught.

I would much rather be a low-class, low-IQ, blue collar worker, that has decency and honor, and knows how to treat others with respect, and has parents that are proud of his character.... than an intelligent scum sucking asshole, that will have "jerk" engraved on his tomb stone when the shame of his parents finally dies off this Earth, and no one misses.

No one will miss you Sage. No one. The way you have acted here, I've met people like you. All the people you think respect you, tell each other what trash you are, when you are not in the room. We have a guy just like you where I work. He's the joke of the entire company, and he's the only one that doesn't know it.

No one cares how high your IQ is, when you are a garbage human being.
When A Students Become Alpha Males, Your Masters Will Fall

The academically castrated nerd wimp you are referring to is not like us at all. I believe that if asked about students getting a salary, he'd say they can't be intelligent if they have to be paid in order to get them to study. He's proud of his childish intellectual escapism; I rejected all that when I was 17.
 
Nobody points out the financially disturbing fact that each one of these candidates proposes giving this or that out for free while paying for it by taxing the wealth of the nation to fund these hollow proposals. Apparently none of these candidates are capable of reading a financial statement, do not understand monetary policy, nor comprehends the economic consequences resulting from their proposals, yet the handouts continue with each trying to outspend the other at the expense of a money pot that simply does not exist.
The problem is taxing the wealthy will not pay for everything the loons want so they will have to raise taxes on everyone.
Mind-Control's False Alternatives

They are the misruling class's fake opponents to the sterile status quo, assigned to purposely make it look good by comparison. The impracticality of their proposals doesn't make your IQ-hating status quo smart. If you think the egalitarians are the opposite side, that just proves how superficial and narrow-minded your own authoritarian gurus are.

Besides, their "educational" welfare is generic, for wannabes and not recruits, just like you brain-envy nobodies are successfully ambitious imbeciles. Even if free tuition were a natural human motivation, it still should be given only to the smartest students and no one else should be allowed to go to college even if willing to pay tuition.
Throwing out a load of nonsensical bullshit doesn't make you intelligent.
Dummies' Dumpster

Supporting rich trash won't make you rich; it will only make you trash.
 
The measurement of ones IQ serves no other purpose then that of the wow factor if one is so smart why do they lack common sense and contribute so little to society?.
Weaned to Wilt

Only inferior people are jealous of proven superiority. Why should we contribute to a society dominated by people who will even then still show us contempt and ingratitude? We have no duty to be suckers and pushovers; those are the characteristics of geniuses who sacrifice themselves for people like you. What's worse, the insults that the rulers manipulate you into spouting don't make wimpy nerds hate you; constant harassment makes them hate themselves and become desperate for your approval.
 
Yes we should

By those who profit off of those skills

Well then if it's the employers responsibility to pay for your personal education to better yourself, shouldn't they be paying for your home as well? After all, it's to the employers advantage their workers have a place to live. And how about your auto payments? It's to the employers advantage their employees are well fed too.

I'm so glad I wasn't born a Democrat. I would never want to go through life believing that I should be coddled by everybody else to get by in life.

The employer is not making a profit off that house.

The employer makes a profit with the machines he uses to create the product, should he pay for the education of the engineers that designed it? He makes a profit off the electricity he uses to make the product, should he pay for the education of the people who created the electric grid?
The Seflfish Are Criminally Anti-Social. Also, They Deprive Themselves Because of Their Jealousy of the Talented.

You're too stupid to understand a sequence of logic. The manufacturer of the machines your fatcat idol buys should pay for the tuition and living expenses of the engineers he freeloads off; he himself should pay for his own employees' educational preparation. Same with the electric company's bosses, or we should pull the plug on all these parasites.

Therefore, the reason you oppose paying students is that you realize that only the smartest would be allowed to go to college and you obviously aren't smart enough. You love this bullying economic system because it puts inferior people like you and the other education sadists on this thread in superior positions.

An employer is not responsible (nor should be) for educating his workers. That's up to the individual. Employers simply offer jobs and people who have the skills the employer needs apply and take them. They are usually paid higher wages than those without an advanced education, and that's all the employer owes.

Now I'm trying to have a discussion with you like an adult; something you seem to lack the capability of. Keep up the insults and I won't respond to your posts any longer.
College Is for Teenagers Who Are Afraid to Grow Up, So How Can You Have an Adult Discussion of It?

On the contrary, we could eliminate schools altogether and have retirees at the corporation stay working and teach the smartest job applicants. Those professionals would know far more than professors what is needed to study in order to do the job. That could even be found out by testing veteran employees on what they still know from what they were taught in the major that got them their jobs.
 
The employer is not making a profit off that house.

The employer makes a profit with the machines he uses to create the product, should he pay for the education of the engineers that designed it? He makes a profit off the electricity he uses to make the product, should he pay for the education of the people who created the electric grid?
The Seflfish Are Criminally Anti-Social. Also, They Deprive Themselves Because of Their Jealousy of the Talented.

You're too stupid to understand a sequence of logic. The manufacturer of the machines your fatcat idol buys should pay for the tuition and living expenses of the engineers he freeloads off; he himself should pay for his own employees' educational preparation. Same with the electric company's bosses, or we should pull the plug on all these parasites.

Therefore, the reason you oppose paying students is that you realize that only the smartest would be allowed to go to college and you obviously aren't smart enough. You love this bullying economic system because it puts inferior people like you and the other education sadists on this thread in superior positions.

An employer is not responsible (nor should be) for educating his workers. That's up to the individual. Employers simply offer jobs and people who have the skills the employer needs apply and take them. They are usually paid higher wages than those without an advanced education, and that's all the employer owes.

Now I'm trying to have a discussion with you like an adult; something you seem to lack the capability of. Keep up the insults and I won't respond to your posts any longer.

Weeeeellll, yes and no.

If the employer wants a current employee to further his/her education to benefit the business, then the employer IS responsible for it. And usually, they'll see it as a good investment, responsible or no. That's why so many companies offer tuition reimbursement as a benefit.

That being said, the primary benefit from and responsibility for an individual's education is always that individual. If you fiind someone who is willing to contribute financially to your education, you're getting a good deal; you're not actually owed that.


But let's face it, employees quit their jobs and move on just like employers sell their companies and move out. Loyalty is very rare anymore with good reason. If an employer is giving you tuition or educational benefits, it's indirectly coming out of your pay just like vacation, holidays, and all the other perks a company might offer.
College Is for Coolies

Though in order to conform to what they're told to think, they deny that college is slavery, they feel no loyalty to their parasite employers exactly because, deep down inside, every graduate knows that and resents it. Even people who refuse to go to college for that very reason feel compelled to lie to themselves and say they're no good at school or just don't like doing schoolwork even if they know they're good at it.
 
Why the Talented Owe You Economic Bootlickers and Bullies Nothing

Someone who's no good at manual labor and despises construction workers would advise their employers to tell them, "This skyscraper will take four years to build, so you won't get paid at all until you finish it and I can make money renting its office space."

Or someone who is lousy at baseball and thinks it is a silly childish game would support club owners mandating that High-School All-American players should get out a loan to pay minor-league clubs to train them, meanwhile living in poverty on low-paying offseason jobs, or even moonlighting at menial labor during the baseball season. He'd smugly tell the stars, "Hey, you want to make millions in the major leagues, you deserve to be punished before you should get that reward."
 
Well then if it's the employers responsibility to pay for your personal education to better yourself, shouldn't they be paying for your home as well? After all, it's to the employers advantage their workers have a place to live. And how about your auto payments? It's to the employers advantage their employees are well fed too.

I'm so glad I wasn't born a Democrat. I would never want to go through life believing that I should be coddled by everybody else to get by in life.

The employer is not making a profit off that house.

The employer makes a profit with the machines he uses to create the product, should he pay for the education of the engineers that designed it? He makes a profit off the electricity he uses to make the product, should he pay for the education of the people who created the electric grid?
The Seflfish Are Criminally Anti-Social. Also, They Deprive Themselves Because of Their Jealousy of the Talented.

You're too stupid to understand a sequence of logic. The manufacturer of the machines your fatcat idol buys should pay for the tuition and living expenses of the engineers he freeloads off; he himself should pay for his own employees' educational preparation. Same with the electric company's bosses, or we should pull the plug on all these parasites.

Therefore, the reason you oppose paying students is that you realize that only the smartest would be allowed to go to college and you obviously aren't smart enough. You love this bullying economic system because it puts inferior people like you and the other education sadists on this thread in superior positions.

An employer is not responsible (nor should be) for educating his workers. That's up to the individual. Employers simply offer jobs and people who have the skills the employer needs apply and take them. They are usually paid higher wages than those without an advanced education, and that's all the employer owes.

Now I'm trying to have a discussion with you like an adult; something you seem to lack the capability of. Keep up the insults and I won't respond to your posts any longer.
College Is for Teenagers Who Are Afraid to Grow Up, So How Can You Have an Adult Discussion of It?

On the contrary, we could eliminate schools altogether and have retirees at the corporation stay working and teach the smartest job applicants. Those professionals would know far more than professors what is needed to study in order to do the job. That could even be found out by testing veteran employees on what they still know from what they were taught in the major that got them their jobs.

That's fine after you get a degree in something. I went to electronics school many years ago. It's all math. You can't put somebody on the job who has no aptitude for math and expect to make an electrical technician out of them. If somebody has the training, then you can take that person under your wing and teach them the ropes.

My sister worked for several years in the food sector at a top world renown hospital. In order to keep the job she was doing all that time, she had to get a college degree and become a dietary technician. After she graduated, she did the same job she always did, it's just that the Clinic needed that certificate for liability purposes.

Unfortunately, insurance companies run this country. That's why we have seat belt laws. That's why states had to lower their BAC levels to .08 to receive federal funding for highways. That's why many jobs have a random drug testing policy. That's why you need that piece of paper from a college. Insurance companies insist on it.
 
The employer is not making a profit off that house.

The employer makes a profit with the machines he uses to create the product, should he pay for the education of the engineers that designed it? He makes a profit off the electricity he uses to make the product, should he pay for the education of the people who created the electric grid?
The Seflfish Are Criminally Anti-Social. Also, They Deprive Themselves Because of Their Jealousy of the Talented.

You're too stupid to understand a sequence of logic. The manufacturer of the machines your fatcat idol buys should pay for the tuition and living expenses of the engineers he freeloads off; he himself should pay for his own employees' educational preparation. Same with the electric company's bosses, or we should pull the plug on all these parasites.

Therefore, the reason you oppose paying students is that you realize that only the smartest would be allowed to go to college and you obviously aren't smart enough. You love this bullying economic system because it puts inferior people like you and the other education sadists on this thread in superior positions.

An employer is not responsible (nor should be) for educating his workers. That's up to the individual. Employers simply offer jobs and people who have the skills the employer needs apply and take them. They are usually paid higher wages than those without an advanced education, and that's all the employer owes.

Now I'm trying to have a discussion with you like an adult; something you seem to lack the capability of. Keep up the insults and I won't respond to your posts any longer.
College Is for Teenagers Who Are Afraid to Grow Up, So How Can You Have an Adult Discussion of It?

On the contrary, we could eliminate schools altogether and have retirees at the corporation stay working and teach the smartest job applicants. Those professionals would know far more than professors what is needed to study in order to do the job. That could even be found out by testing veteran employees on what they still know from what they were taught in the major that got them their jobs.

That's fine after you get a degree in something. I went to electronics school many years ago. It's all math. You can't put somebody on the job who has no aptitude for math and expect to make an electrical technician out of them. If somebody has the training, then you can take that person under your wing and teach them the ropes.

My sister worked for several years in the food sector at a top world renown hospital. In order to keep the job she was doing all that time, she had to get a college degree and become a dietary technician. After she graduated, she did the same job she always did, it's just that the Clinic needed that certificate for liability purposes.

Unfortunately, insurance companies run this country. That's why we have seat belt laws. That's why states had to lower their BAC levels to .08 to receive federal funding for highways. That's why many jobs have a random drug testing policy. That's why you need that piece of paper from a college. Insurance companies insist on it.

Well, in fairness to the insurance companies, they insist on it because we're such a litigious society, so businesses and their insurers have no choice but to cover their asses against that eventuality.
 
Don't know about debt free but we could sure use some more roundly educated people in fields like health care & education, just for starters. check out the back grounds of the people running our major agency's, lots of back ground fighting against the agency's they now run. say what! how could this be true, but it is.
 

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