Damn it, the scum is spared for a few more days...

[insein]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A41996-2004Apr25?language=printer

U.S. Opts To Delay Fallujah Offensive
Marines, Iraqi Forces Planning Joint Patrols
By Rajiv Chandrasekaran and Karl Vick
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, April 26, 2004; Page A01


FALLUJAH, Iraq, April 25 -- U.S. Marines have postponed plans to mount an attack against insurgents holed up here and instead will attempt to regain control of this violence-wracked city without a full-scale offensive, military commanders said Sunday.



Concerned about the repercussions an attack could generate across Iraq and the Arab world, senior U.S. military and civilian officials said they had decided to try to confront a band of hard-core Sunni Muslim insurgents, who have effectively taken over Fallujah, by having Marines conduct patrols in the city alongside Iraqi security forces.

The new strategy, reached in consultation with the White House over the weekend, represents an effort by U.S. officials to avoid a military incursion that could entail urban combat, civilian casualties and a wave of retributive strikes outside Fallujah, further poisoning relations between Iraqis and U.S. occupation forces.

"A military solution is not going to be the solution here unless everything else fails," said Maj. Gen. James N. Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Division, which is responsible for securing Fallujah and other areas of western Iraq. Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, said efforts to deal with the insurgency in Fallujah had shifted to "a political track."

The strategy shift is the latest in a series of U.S. policy reversals designed to placate Iraq's Sunnis, a once-powerful minority whose postwar disenfranchisement has fueled attacks on U.S. troops and Iraqi security forces. Last week, the U.S. occupation authority announced it would hire back some senior military officers and teachers who were dismissed by the authority because they had been members of former president Saddam Hussein's Sunni-dominated Baath Party.

For those that say i don't criticize bush, well here it is. We should go in to this town hard and fast. Eliminate these animals now and send a message to everyone else. This is sending the wrong message to the people. This is telling people that we will negotiate on certain basis. I don't like this.

I know these insurgents will attack our boys on their patrols. Hoepfully then our leaders will see that we need to just bust that town up and worry about the bodies later.

 

[Hobbit]

It could be an effort to pull the Iraqis into the fight. They need to get into it sometime.

 

[Annie]

Have to agree with you Insein, seems ridiculous that they have kept all those troops waiting for over a week, getting pot shots taken at them. On top of that, all those that have had to flee, (the one good thing that came out of the cease fire), need to be able to return to their homes.

 

[krisy]

I feel the same as you all. I think this looks to much like we are backing down or somehow negotiating,which I though we didn't do with these people. Bin Laden himself has said that this is our weaknes,we have compassion,and that's good. But what price are our soldiers going to pay and the rest of Iraq on June 30th if we let this nonsense go on?

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by insein
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A41996-2004Apr25?language=printer



We should go in to this town hard and fast. Eliminate these animals now and send a message to everyone else.

I just saw a headline on CNN that reported that there was a fierce firefight going on in Fullujah right now.

Apparently the "new strategy" didn't last very long. I am afraid this will result in more flag drapped coffins flying into Dover and a lot of civilian casualties as well as some of the insurgents. War sucks.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by st8_o_mind
I just saw a headline on CNN that reported that there was a fierce firefight going on in Fullujah right now.

Apparently the "new strategy" didn't last very long. I am afraid this will result in more flag drapped coffins flying into Dover and a lot of civilian casualties as well as some of the insurgents. War sucks.

This is the price of freedom. If any American seriously believed that negotiations were going to fix everything they need their head checked. Like roaches you have to kill the nest. As for the civilians thats war for ya, can't win if they are your major concern. God bless mother green and her killing machine in Fallujah, may they kill multiples of the enemy for every one of us.

 

[SPIKESMYGOD]

Yes, even though I understand the sensitivity issue, I'm becoming very worried about this hesitation to take the fight to these lowlifes. However, I am seeing progress:

Today, I saw some beautiful clips of a mosque on fire from one of our assults. Yeah, this is probably JUST what the enemy wants, but I found it beautiful because it is time that we stop this "certain targets are off-limits" mentality. Beautiful because it shows these thugs that we are NOT going to sit by much longer and allow them to strike at us from mosques with impunity. Once these scumbags & murderers carry weapons into a mosque and use it as a safe haven from where they can shoot at us, they have besmirched the mosque and stripped it of all off-limits legitimacy.

FIRE AWAY!

 

[Tippy Toes]

Don't ya think they are worried about the women, and children? That's probably it, and I guess it will look very,very bad if they get a bunch of kids. The media would eat it up. Anything negative, or Anti-American makes the news first.

 

[Scourge]

Stupid Iraqis getting in the way of their freedom again, don't they know we're the good guys?
Who else but friends surrounds your town and fires weapons at you?

"This is the US Army. Do not defend yourselves, or you will be labelled insurgents. You have 2 days to hand over your old weapons and prepare for domination. We will not back down from you in fear. You cannot intimidate us, we have unshakable resolve."

 

[Reilly]

Originally posted by Tippy Toes
Don't ya think they are worried about the women, and children? That's probably it, and I guess it will look very,very bad if they get a bunch of kids. The media would eat it up. Anything negative, or Anti-American makes the news first.

Not only would it look bad, but it would be bad to kill a bunch of children. I am not suggesting that you don't recognize this. I just doubt they are holding up just to avoid bad media coverage. Hopefully, they are truly concerned about the deaths of innocent civilians.

 

[Scourge]

How do we determine which iraqis are innocent? Innocent of what? What are the legal specifics when you've been invaded? Are you legally allowed to fight back? Even if your former ruler has been asking for termination?

 

[Palestinian Jew]

To put it simply, we determine who is innocent based on whether they shoot at us or not. kinda obvious.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by Scourge
Stupid Iraqis getting in the way of their freedom again, don't they know we're the good guys?
Who else but friends surrounds your town and fires weapons at you?

"This is the US Army. Do not defend yourselves, or you will be labelled insurgents. You have 2 days to hand over your old weapons and prepare for domination. We will not back down from you in fear. You cannot intimidate us, we have unshakable resolve."

Do you truly believe that we go in looking to kill women & children? Unlike the jihadists we actually have morals.......

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Scourge
How do we determine which iraqis are innocent? Innocent of what? What are the legal specifics when you've been invaded? Are you legally allowed to fight back? Even if your former ruler has been asking for termination?

When a marine is circling around searching for terrorists and insurgents, and one of these towelheads pops out from behind a bush and fires a grenade at his humvee - the scumbag is no longer innocent and will die.

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by krisy
I feel the same as you all. I think this looks to much like we are backing down or somehow negotiating,which I though we didn't do with these people. Bin Laden himself has said that this is our weaknes,we have compassion,and that's good. But what price are our soldiers going to pay and the rest of Iraq on June 30th if we let this nonsense go on?

Here's another perspective on negotiating from a bit closer to the front. (AP wire story from about 45 minutes ago.)


Iraq Official Blames U.S. for Standoff

By LOUIS MEIXLER, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq (news - web sites)'s current Governing Council president said Monday the United States has only itself to blame for the military deadlock at Najaf and Fallujah because it allowed its troops to change from "an army of liberation" to "an army of occupation."


In an exclusive interview with The Associated Press, Massoud Barzani said the United States faces a dilemma: It must not be soft in the besieged cities and give insurgents "the impression that they have the upper hand," but it also must make sure civilians are not harmed if military force is used.


The comments from a close U.S. ally in Iraq signal the deepening dissatisfaction between the United States and top Iraqi politicians. Barzani supported the U.S. war effort, and members of his militia fought alongside American soldiers in northern Iraq.



Full text available at:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=3&u=/ap/20040426/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_barzani

 

[jimnyc]

Funny how the liberals calls the Iraqi government illegitimate when their is progress, but suddenly change their minds if they speak anything negative. It's called hypocrisy, and it's plastered all over you.

 

[Scourge]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
To put it simply, we determine who is innocent based on whether they shoot at us or not. kinda obvious.

lol. I beg to differ. Is an invading army innocent? I guess not, since that was an act of war... and really, answer any of my questions:

"What are the legal specifics when you've been invaded?
Are you legally allowed to fight back?
Even if your former ruler has been asking for termination?"

 

[Scourge]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Do you truly believe that we go in looking to kill women & children? Unlike the jihadists we actually have morals.......

Not sure what you're responding to about the women and children... but anyway, what morals exactly? Demanding an occupied population stop defending itself? Or we will surround your sities and fire upon them? Until WE choose a new set of rulers for you? Why wouldn't the love us? Do we keep track of the civilians we've killed? Is it 10:1 or 100:1?
Anybody know?

 

[Scourge]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Funny how the liberals calls the Iraqi government illegitimate when their is progress, but suddenly change their minds if they speak anything negative. It's called hypocrisy, and it's plastered all over you.

What are you talking about? Did the Iraqis vote into power their own government? If not, anything else is illegitimate. Nice use of the word 'towelhead' by the way, Ambassador.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Scourge
What are you talking about? Did the Iraqis vote into power their own government? If not, anything else is illegitimate. Nice use of the word 'towelhead' by the way, Ambassador.

First off, I wasn't talking to you, asswipe. Secondly, read back a few posts to where st8ofmind posted an article about the Iraqi giverning council. If they are considered illegitimate for everything else, it's kind of hypocritical to use them as a source when they say something negative about the US.

Nice of you to not comprehend the progress of this thread, dolt.