Creationists

[Youwerecreated]

Which is to say, "UltimateReality" made the accusation LOki plagiarized someone; but since evidence of such plagiarism is not necessary for UltimateReality to hold that accusation as valid, UltimateReality demands that the accusation is valid just because he believes it is so.

...

Sounds alot like Darwinism.

Spoken like a true Hovindist.

Hollie is that you ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I will await loki to give a rebuttal on mutation fixation and the conditions that were brought out in the article I posted he said they don't exist,now that was funny.

 

[UltimateReality]

What's the matter Pumpkin? Having difficulty with accepting that your fraud has been exposed? Is it just not fair that valid logic applied to verifiable evidence offers no support for your belief in magic; that it always supports evolution?

Face it Cupcake, the only hope you have to appear that you have refuted the Theory Of Evolution by Natural Selection, is to make up your own nonsense to refute and hope nobody notices it's your own made-up nonsense.

Would that made up nonsense include all the Wiki quotes above which prove your strawman accusations to be TOTALLY BOGUS???

All those wiki-quotes actually support my position and demonstrate your assertions to be strawmen.

Are you serious right now? You were absolutely wrong. Everything I claimed about evolutions claims, which you REFUTED, were proven true by the Wiki quotes. I see how this goes. Just like everything else in the TOE, you think if you repeat something over and over enough, people will start to believe. You were WRONG and the strawman was a figment of your vivid imagination. Why can't you admit it?

 

[UltimateReality]

the bullshit to fact ratio rises when UR is compelled to use bold and oversized type,

Says the man who doesn't even understand the exchange between Loki and myself, nor the fact that I used the atheist-sympathizing Wiki to prove him wrong. Bold type is the fact he denied for emphasis. And where is Loki? As it typical of Loki, rather than admit he was wrong, he has tucked his tail and skedaddled.

I suppose that when no one else can find a reason to congratulate you, you can just congratulate yourself.

Oh, right! I suppose your imaginary friend is congratulating you right now!

Revisionism runs in yours and Hollie's veins. Why would assume anything else other than your total and complete denial of the truth? You are a LIAR and anyone with half a brain that read the threads can see right through your shenanigans.

I said it before but now you have convinced me, arguing with you is akin to arguing with a drunk. There is no logic or reasoning to be found with you and no honor whatsoever.

 

[UltimateReality]

The religious nature of creationism are always apparent to an objective observe. The very supporters that claim there is scientific evidence to support creationism describe it as a religious argument. Their creator is the God of Christianity. Accordingly, creationism is a religious view ONLY. Religious views ARE NOT SCIENCE.
The goal of the creationists is to avoid scientific scrutiny, discourage critical thought and foment a revolution which would supplant evolutionary theory with creationism.
Creationists only want to promote their religious beliefs.

I really don't think anyone here, including YWC, is claiming Creationism is anything but religion. And I would disagree that creationists avoid scientific scrutiny. In fact, the exact opposite is true.

HOLY SHIT! I AGREE WITH YOU!

Well, this is complete bullshit.

The superstitious, like you, are always so keen to challenge folks like me to "prove" you wrong, and you are always disappointed when we merely bring verifiable evidence and/or valid logic to support our assertions. Denying evidence is like breathing air for you retards--but if we were to provide absolute and unqualified "proof," then we would have finally brought a real test of your faith--if you manage to maintain your retarded superstition in the face absolute and unqualified "proof" that it's nothing but your delusional imagination, then you would "know"--you would finally have that certainty in yourself that you have in your magical imaginary friends--that you can claim some kind of intellectual and moral superiority over your fellows.

Creationists have no interest what-so-ever in demonstrating what they believe has any basis in objective reality. Science for you asshats is a test of your denial of reality; it is a test of your belief based upon nothing but your belief; it is a test of your faith.

And they don't.

Pathological projection.

Evolutionists do not subscribe to the intellectually dishonest Creationist paradigm that Hovindists assign to them.

Either that, or they can't see it becuase they are in it. The bias and blindness of those holding the materialistic world view prevents their acknowledgement of their clearly religious beliefs about origins.

Just alot of made-up nonsense.

The existence of God is just as easty to believe AND prove, as the belief that natural selection acting on random mutation is responsible for the complex life forms on the planet.

Oh good!

This "God" thing you reference. I have no idea what you're talking about. You say the existence of this "God" thing of yours is easy prove.

Now, I have been exposed to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."

Those clearly don't count, right? Those "God" things are obviously fraudulent. So help me out here, and prove this "God" thing you reference.

The lies are strong with this one.

 

[UltimateReality]

The religious nature of creationism are always apparent to an objective observe. The very supporters that claim there is scientific evidence to support creationism describe it as a religious argument. Their creator is the God of Christianity. Accordingly, creationism is a religious view ONLY. Religious views ARE NOT SCIENCE.
The goal of the creationists is to avoid scientific scrutiny, discourage critical thought and foment a revolution which would supplant evolutionary theory with creationism.
Creationists only want to promote their religious beliefs.

I really don't think anyone here, including YWC, is claiming Creationism is anything but religion. And I would disagree that creationists avoid scientific scrutiny. In fact, the exact opposite is true.

HOLY SHIT! I AGREE WITH YOU!

Well, this is complete bullshit.

The superstitious, like you, are always so keen to challenge folks like me to "prove" you wrong, and you are always disappointed when we merely bring verifiable evidence and/or valid logic to support our assertions. Denying evidence is like breathing air for you retards--but if we were to provide absolute and unqualified "proof," then we would have finally brought a real test of your faith--if you manage to maintain your retarded superstition in the face absolute and unqualified "proof" that it's nothing but your delusional imagination, then you would "know"--you would finally have that certainty in yourself that you have in your magical imaginary friends--that you can claim some kind of intellectual and moral superiority over your fellows.

Creationists have no interest what-so-ever in demonstrating what they believe has any basis in objective reality. Science for you asshats is a test of your denial of reality; it is a test of your belief based upon nothing but your belief; it is a test of your faith.

And they don't.

Pathological projection.

Evolutionists do not subscribe to the intellectually dishonest Creationist paradigm that Hovindists assign to them.

Either that, or they can't see it becuase they are in it. The bias and blindness of those holding the materialistic world view prevents their acknowledgement of their clearly religious beliefs about origins.

Just alot of made-up nonsense.

The existence of God is just as easty to believe AND prove, as the belief that natural selection acting on random mutation is responsible for the complex life forms on the planet.

Oh good!

This "God" thing you reference. I have no idea what you're talking about. You say the existence of this "God" thing of yours is easy prove.

Now, I have been exposed to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."

Those clearly don't count, right? Those "God" things are obviously fraudulent. So help me out here, and prove this "God" thing you reference.

Oh you poor dear. That is not what I said. What is your educational background that you can't seem to comprehend a simple sentence? Here, let me say it reeaaaal slow so you can get it. The existence of God is just as easy to believe in and prove, as the belief in evolution. One more time for the short bus rider: it is just as easy to believe in and prove God exists as it is to believe in and prove evolution is real.

 

[UltimateReality]

God is not science. God does not have to test study and observe to understand how things work.

The gods work by magic.... and by preying upon the ignorant and the gullible.

???

Hollie: for the effects of "forgiveness" therapy on healing the mind and body, both medical studies and psychology studies have shown this process works consisently. science and faith need not be hostile or adverse/opposites, but the same things taught in religion can be shown to work using scientific methods and study. Natural laws are part of creation also.

As for YWC God may not need science, but secular Gentiles who understand and appreciate the world through science may need this as a tool to resolve questions and conflicts. I believe God gave us the abilities we have in our minds and conscience to reason and compare consequences and cause/effect so we CAN reach an understanding by free will.
One day, we won't have to rely so much on blind faith, but can back it up with science and history, to show WHY certain choices in life and relationships are better than others.

You are wasting your time. Until Hollie learns to forgive her gay-hating, fundamentalist Christian parents, she will forever be blinded by her seething hate for all Christians. She has found solace in the study of evolution, because it helps here reconcile the turmoil that is within her soul by helping her pretend God doesn't exist.

 

[UltimateReality]

Wrong as usual. What the fundie actually did was trash virtually all of his prior claims to creationism being "science" to finally admitting that creationism is nothing more than religion (christianity), under a fraudulent veneer.

What a laughable joke.

Nope,tell me how detecting design in nature is nonscientific ?

The method you use presumes the existence of the Designer you posit, to validate the presence of the design you "detect," that validates the Designer you posit, which demonstrates the design you "detect."

Every bit of "design" you present REQUIRES belief in the Designer you posit is the author of the design you present.

Hello everyone. Meet Parrot. Loki just changed the players and repeated back what I posted a few pages back:

"I have often wondered: What would it take for a biology professor to see some living organism, study it and then clap his hand to his forehead and say: "Wow, natural selection couldn't possibly have done THAT!"

Answer: Nothing. They are locked into a materialist worldview, and they think that anything outside it is unscientific. They have already accepted Lewontin's Law about the necessity of a "prior commitment to materialism." They will look at any strange organism you may show them and say: "Well, it exists doesn't it? How else did it get here, if not by gradual stages, bit by bit, starting with molecules in motion, finally building up to what we see in front of us? What other choice is there?"

 

[UltimateReality]

The gods work by magic.... and by preying upon the ignorant and the gullible.

God is greater then man and you are putting your faith in falliable man but should I be surprised.

You keep referencing this "God" thing. I have no idea what you're talking about. You've gone on, and on about this "God" thing of yours, but have yet to explain what it is.

Now, I have been exposed to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."

Those clearly don't count, right? Those "God" things are obviously fraudulent. So help me out here, and explain this "God" thing you keep referencing.

Says Loki as he goes about his business in a 7-day week in a year referenced by the time Christ lived and sipping on a cup of coffee he paid for with a piece of paper that says "In God We Trust" on it while he chats online with Andrew, Mark, Luke, John, Mary, Martha, David, Ben, James, Matt, Joe, Zach, Ruth, Sam, etc., etc.

 

[UltimateReality]

That is YOUR Christian belief, not science, and I am not stating that your beliefs are wrong.
Go get on your house roof at the highest point. Get your wife at the bottom on the ground. Then ask God to save you while you dive on your head on the ground.
Or listen to your wife who is screaming to you not to do it.
Your wife knows science.

You're the Devil...

Matthew 4:

1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]”

7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”

8 Oi vey but these superstitious fools are gullible so that you will intentionally strike your forehead against a stone...repeatedly.

You mean like trying to have a logical conversation with you???

 

[UltimateReality]

...says the foolish Rugged Touch Man/Woman who posts under fake names and continuously commits lies of omission and milks the taxpayers for disability payments and foodstamps just because he/she is grossly obese... Hollie "I am of the male persuasion" Man Touch.

There's that true Christian spirit of hate, derision, false claims, lies and....uplifting of the human condition.

Nope, I am speaking the truth in love. Please do share. What facts above that I wrote about you aren't true? You really can't call someone a liar without substantiating your claim.

A simple yes or no will do:

Did you mislead others on another forum by pretending to be a man posing under the name Rugged Touch?

Are you on disability?

Are you obese?

Were your parents fundamentalist Christians?

Have you ever been to college?

 

[Hollie]

I really don't think anyone here, including YWC, is claiming Creationism is anything but religion. And I would disagree that creationists avoid scientific scrutiny. In fact, the exact opposite is true.

HOLY SHIT! I AGREE WITH YOU!

Well, this is complete bullshit.

The superstitious, like you, are always so keen to challenge folks like me to "prove" you wrong, and you are always disappointed when we merely bring verifiable evidence and/or valid logic to support our assertions. Denying evidence is like breathing air for you retards--but if we were to provide absolute and unqualified "proof," then we would have finally brought a real test of your faith--if you manage to maintain your retarded superstition in the face absolute and unqualified "proof" that it's nothing but your delusional imagination, then you would "know"--you would finally have that certainty in yourself that you have in your magical imaginary friends--that you can claim some kind of intellectual and moral superiority over your fellows.

Creationists have no interest what-so-ever in demonstrating what they believe has any basis in objective reality. Science for you asshats is a test of your denial of reality; it is a test of your belief based upon nothing but your belief; it is a test of your faith.

And they don't.

Pathological projection.

Evolutionists do not subscribe to the intellectually dishonest Creationist paradigm that Hovindists assign to them.

Just alot of made-up nonsense.

The existence of God is just as easty to believe AND prove, as the belief that natural selection acting on random mutation is responsible for the complex life forms on the planet.

Oh good!

This "God" thing you reference. I have no idea what you're talking about. You say the existence of this "God" thing of yours is easy prove.

Now, I have been exposed to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."

Those clearly don't count, right? Those "God" things are obviously fraudulent. So help me out here, and prove this "God" thing you reference.

Oh you poor dear. That is not what I said. What is your educational background that you can't seem to comprehend a simple sentence? Here, let me say it reeaaaal slow so you can get it. The existence of God is just as easy to believe in and prove, as the belief in evolution. One more time for the short bus rider: it is just as easy to believe in and prove God exists as it is to believe in and prove evolution is real.

Oh you poor Harun Yahya groupie. Proof of the gods would negate any requirement for religious faith.

As there is no proof for any gods, you're left with belief in the supermagical.

 

[Hollie]

...says the foolish Rugged Touch Man/Woman who posts under fake names and continuously commits lies of omission and milks the taxpayers for disability payments and foodstamps just because he/she is grossly obese... Hollie "I am of the male persuasion" Man Touch.

There's that true Christian spirit of hate, derision, false claims, lies and....uplifting of the human condition.

Nope, I am speaking the truth in love. Please do share. What facts above that I wrote about you aren't true? You really can't call someone a liar without substantiating your claim.

A simple yes or no will do:

Did you mislead others on another forum by pretending to be a man posing under the name Rugged Touch?

Are you on disability?

Are you obese?

Were your parents fundamentalist Christians?

Have you ever been to college?

I wouldn't let your lack of education be a barrier to ignorance. Many fundie Christians are able to wander through life with nothing more a bible to thump people with and an abiding will to collect welfare.

Did you mislead others on another forum by pretending to be a man posing under the name Rugged slut?

Are you on disability because the gods are punishing?

Are you obese because the gods are punishing you?

Were your parents fundamentalist Christians as opposed to Harun Yahya groupies?

 

[Hollie]

The gods work by magic.... and by preying upon the ignorant and the gullible.

???

Hollie: for the effects of "forgiveness" therapy on healing the mind and body, both medical studies and psychology studies have shown this process works consisently. science and faith need not be hostile or adverse/opposites, but the same things taught in religion can be shown to work using scientific methods and study. Natural laws are part of creation also.

As for YWC God may not need science, but secular Gentiles who understand and appreciate the world through science may need this as a tool to resolve questions and conflicts. I believe God gave us the abilities we have in our minds and conscience to reason and compare consequences and cause/effect so we CAN reach an understanding by free will.
One day, we won't have to rely so much on blind faith, but can back it up with science and history, to show WHY certain choices in life and relationships are better than others.

You are wasting your time. Until Hollie learns to forgive her gay-hating, fundamentalist Christian parents, she will forever be blinded by her seething hate for all Christians. She has found solace in the study of evolution, because it helps here reconcile the turmoil that is within her soul by helping her pretend God doesn't exist.

This is, of course, the problem faced by fundie Christians. Their ideology of hate causes them to lash out at anyone who presents a rational argument that contradicts their worldview of fear and self-loathing.

 

[Hollie]

Nope,tell me how detecting design in nature is nonscientific ?

The method you use presumes the existence of the Designer you posit, to validate the presence of the design you "detect," that validates the Designer you posit, which demonstrates the design you "detect."

Every bit of "design" you present REQUIRES belief in the Designer you posit is the author of the design you present.

What you determine happened by chance and luck i see that it was designed with a purpose and it was needed for something to function properly.

Why would you worship such an incompetent designer as one alluded to in just one of the ancient books of tales and fabled that is so rife with errors and contradictions?

 

[Hollie]

Says the man who doesn't even understand the exchange between Loki and myself, nor the fact that I used the atheist-sympathizing Wiki to prove him wrong. Bold type is the fact he denied for emphasis. And where is Loki? As it typical of Loki, rather than admit he was wrong, he has tucked his tail and skedaddled.

I suppose that when no one else can find a reason to congratulate you, you can just congratulate yourself.

Oh, right! I suppose your imaginary friend is congratulating you right now!

Revisionism runs in yours and Hollie's veins. Why would assume anything else other than your total and complete denial of the truth? You are a LIAR and anyone with half a brain that read the threads can see right through your shenanigans.

I said it before but now you have convinced me, arguing with you is akin to arguing with a drunk. There is no logic or reasoning to be found with you and no honor whatsoever.

How strange that you would make reference to logic and reasoning. You and the other fundie had insisted that creation "science" was a viable method to counter evolution, the biological sciences and the physical sciences. You both recently abandoned that strategy altogether and finally admitted that creation science is simply lies, deceit and falsehood as mere attempts to assign credibility to what amounts to fear and superstition.

 

[Hollie]

Earlier in this thread I made the argument how mutation fixation can never happen the way evolutionist claim. I could not find it but I found an article discussing the same nine reasons why evolution through mutations can never happen. Now if you guys wish to go down this road read this article and let's get to it. In other words poop or get off the pot.



Mutation Fixation: A Dead End for Macro-evolution
by E. Calvin Beisner, M.A.
Most arguments against the possibility of mutation as a mechanism for evolution revolve around two premises: that mutations are almost always harmful, and that the idea of their improving rather than harming organisms is contrary to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which tells us that matter and energy naturally tend toward greater randomness rather than greater order and complexity. These are two sides of the same coin, actually, the latter arguing from principle and the former from empirical observation.

Rarely, though, do arguments against mutation as the mechanism for evolution consider at once the many conditions that must be met if mutation is to bring about macro-evolutionary change (that is, change from one basic kind of life to another). Yet examining the probabilities of these conditions all being met together provides excellent evidence against evolution and in favor of creation.

NINE CONDITIONS FOR MUTATION FIXATION
Fortunately, geneticist R.H. Byles has made the job easy for us by discussing nine important conditions in an article on the subject. 1

--COPY/PASTE VOMIT PILE SNIPPED--​

Mutation Fixation: A Dead End for Macro-evolution

A better title for this little piece of creationist misinformation is:

NINE NON-EXISTENT CONDITIONS THAT PREVENT MUTATION FIXATION

Seriously. Give that thing a thorough read. I think that nearly every single sentence expresses or serves a fundamental misunderstanding (more likely deliberate mischaracterization) of reality.

You are talking my language now, please point out the misunderstandings and we will go from there.

You're not talking a language at all. You are simply cutting and pasting from creationist websites material that is manufactured from non-scientists. That Is why you have admitted that creation science is nothing more than appeals to religion.

 

[Hollie]

You're the Devil...

Matthew 4:

1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]”

7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”

8 Oi vey but these superstitious fools are gullible so that you will intentionally strike your forehead against a stone...repeatedly.

You mean like trying to have a logical conversation with you???

What conversation can be had with a cut and paste bible thumper?

 

[ima]

8 Oi vey but these superstitious fools are gullible so that you will intentionally strike your forehead against a stone...repeatedly.

You mean like trying to have a logical conversation with you???

What conversation can be had with a cut and paste bible thumper?

UR lives his life by a douche book of fairy tales and can't think for himself but can only quote a book of fiction, written generations, and sometimes hundreds of years after the events. Give it up Hollie, he reached his intellectual limit a long time ago.

 

[LOki]

Nope,tell me how detecting design in nature is nonscientific ?

The method you use presumes the existence of the Designer you posit, to validate the presence of the design you "detect," that validates the Designer you posit, which demonstrates the design you "detect."

Every bit of "design" you present REQUIRES belief in the Designer you posit is the author of the design you present.

What you determine happened by chance and luck ...

... i see that it was designed with a purpose and it was needed for something to function properly.

Superstition.