CDZ Could using Islam as a political philosophy make trumps ban constitutional?

[ogibillm]

Don't know where you're pulling all this from (no links) but ---- circumcision involves the genitals, not the fingers.

An action being "in the Hadith", wherever it is, means nothing. Except that its meaning would have been already understood at the time. And it would have been understood because it already existed.

Same with stoning, which we also did recently. Way older than Islam.

I don't need links. I provided the location. Google it.
It is in the hadith which is a basic Islamic belief.
Circumcision is a basic Islamic belief. It doesn't matter if it was around before. They put it int heir belief system. Period.

That is completely and irrevocably illogical.

FGM has no religious function -- in any religion. It never did. Like "honor killing" its function is social structure/social status.

e.g. -- you don't wear a nice fancy suit because your religion demands it -- you wear it to exhibit a certain social status. It has no relevance to your spiritual leader or congregation -- it has relevance only to your community and peers.

Same thing.

It doesn't make a damn what YOU say Pogo. They put it in their religious teachings. They ADOPTED it into their religion. IDC if historically it had no religious ties. They made it that way.

again, it's not required in islam, and most muslims don't practice fgm.

That's fine. We were discussing it being a religious ritual. Which it is. Regardless if it happened pre-islam or not.

i'm not sure where you are getting the idea that it's a religious ritual

 

[TNHarley]

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

you aren't though. you want to say it's a political system so that allows you to ban it - but it's still a religion.
it could be a religion and a guide to this fall's hottest fashions and you couldn't ban it.

Since we both agree that Islams goal is a worldwide Islamic state, wouldn't that make it an established religion, technically?

i'm not sure that we both agree on that at all anymore than i'd say that christianity wants a worldwide christian state.

what do you mean by 'established religion'?

I posted my links and you basically conceded. Shall I post them again, or will you be intellectually honest?
BTW we are talking about islam.
Established religion, as in banned in the first amendment. as in : by accepting that religion, it would, in itself, be an established religion considering Islams goal as a worldwide caliphate.

i don't recall any links, or conceding anything on that point.

the first amendment bans congress from establishing a religion. if i start a cult that says that not only are we the going to rule the world, we already do, we still can't be banned.

You reply was "you don't think I can find that in Judaism" or something to that effect.
To protect Islamic rights, means depriving non-muslims of freedom of speech. Look at the Charlie hebdo ordeal

 

[sealybobo]

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

you aren't though. you want to say it's a political system so that allows you to ban it - but it's still a religion.
it could be a religion and a guide to this fall's hottest fashions and you couldn't ban it.

Since we both agree that Islams goal is a worldwide Islamic state, wouldn't that make it an established religion, technically?

i'm not sure that we both agree on that at all anymore than i'd say that christianity wants a worldwide christian state.

what do you mean by 'established religion'?

I posted my links and you basically conceded. Shall I post them again, or will you be intellectually honest?
BTW we are talking about islam.
Established religion, as in banned in the first amendment. as in : by accepting that religion, it would, in itself, be an established religion considering Islams goal as a worldwide caliphate.

Maybe Muslims come to America to escape the caliphate? Maybe they just want to be free to practice their own faith and live and let live? Otherwise they wouldn't have come here. They would have instead joined ISIS.

 

[TNHarley]

I don't need links. I provided the location. Google it.
It is in the hadith which is a basic Islamic belief.
Circumcision is a basic Islamic belief. It doesn't matter if it was around before. They put it int heir belief system. Period.

That is completely and irrevocably illogical.

FGM has no religious function -- in any religion. It never did. Like "honor killing" its function is social structure/social status.

e.g. -- you don't wear a nice fancy suit because your religion demands it -- you wear it to exhibit a certain social status. It has no relevance to your spiritual leader or congregation -- it has relevance only to your community and peers.

Same thing.

It doesn't make a damn what YOU say Pogo. They put it in their religious teachings. They ADOPTED it into their religion. IDC if historically it had no religious ties. They made it that way.

again, it's not required in islam, and most muslims don't practice fgm.

That's fine. We were discussing it being a religious ritual. Which it is. Regardless if it happened pre-islam or not.

No, it is not. Never has been, never will be.

You seem to be running on the idea that, if some concept is merely mentioned in some ancient scripture, even if just to acknowledge a then-current practice, it somehow becomes a precept.

Again, FGM has no religious function. It makes no difference to the religious status of the victim. Its only significance is to her social status.

personal status, really. If you read what I have been telling to read, you would know that...
Or if the husband wants it..

 

[Syriusly]

The right question is "Have you read the Constitution, the 1st Amendment, and any commentaries that apply to your concern about religion in America?"

What Harley doesn't want to address- because he just wants to argue about whether or not Islam is also a political system- is that Islam is a religion.

Does he want to argue that it is okay to ignore the Constitution if he says a religion is also a political system?

Who knows.

Islam is a religion. I am talking about using it as a political system to get banned. You can present things in different manners.
I have proven that Islams goal is an Islamic state. Which is a complete economic/social system. Which is bannable as per the constitution. You can skirt around the OP if you wish. I guess.

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

 

[Pogo]

I don't need links. I provided the location. Google it.
It is in the hadith which is a basic Islamic belief.
Circumcision is a basic Islamic belief. It doesn't matter if it was around before. They put it int heir belief system. Period.

That is completely and irrevocably illogical.

FGM has no religious function -- in any religion. It never did. Like "honor killing" its function is social structure/social status.

e.g. -- you don't wear a nice fancy suit because your religion demands it -- you wear it to exhibit a certain social status. It has no relevance to your spiritual leader or congregation -- it has relevance only to your community and peers.

Same thing.

It doesn't make a damn what YOU say Pogo. They put it in their religious teachings. They ADOPTED it into their religion. IDC if historically it had no religious ties. They made it that way.

again, it's not required in islam, and most muslims don't practice fgm.

That's fine. We were discussing it being a religious ritual. Which it is. Regardless if it happened pre-islam or not.

i'm not sure where you are getting the idea that it's a religious ritual

Another Association Fallacy.

By that logic, Christmas trees, the Easter bunny and playing golf or baseball must be "Judeo-Christian" rituals.

 

[TNHarley]

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

you aren't though. you want to say it's a political system so that allows you to ban it - but it's still a religion.
it could be a religion and a guide to this fall's hottest fashions and you couldn't ban it.

Since we both agree that Islams goal is a worldwide Islamic state, wouldn't that make it an established religion, technically?

i'm not sure that we both agree on that at all anymore than i'd say that christianity wants a worldwide christian state.

what do you mean by 'established religion'?

I posted my links and you basically conceded. Shall I post them again, or will you be intellectually honest?
BTW we are talking about islam.
Established religion, as in banned in the first amendment. as in : by accepting that religion, it would, in itself, be an established religion considering Islams goal as a worldwide caliphate.

Maybe Muslims come to America to escape the caliphate? Maybe they just want to be free to practice their own faith and live and let live? Otherwise they wouldn't have come here. They would have instead joined ISIS.

Their own faith is a world wide caliphate. I am sure some muslims might not believe in that and believe in individual liberty. Hell, I have a muslim friend that respects his gfs Christianity. Or was his gf. Havent spoken to him a couple years.. nonetheless, I guess we could pull a "American vetting process" and just ask em?

 

[TNHarley]

The right question is "Have you read the Constitution, the 1st Amendment, and any commentaries that apply to your concern about religion in America?"

What Harley doesn't want to address- because he just wants to argue about whether or not Islam is also a political system- is that Islam is a religion.

Does he want to argue that it is okay to ignore the Constitution if he says a religion is also a political system?

Who knows.

Islam is a religion. I am talking about using it as a political system to get banned. You can present things in different manners.
I have proven that Islams goal is an Islamic state. Which is a complete economic/social system. Which is bannable as per the constitution. You can skirt around the OP if you wish. I guess.

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

 

[Syriusly]

you aren't though. you want to say it's a political system so that allows you to ban it - but it's still a religion.
it could be a religion and a guide to this fall's hottest fashions and you couldn't ban it.

Since we both agree that Islams goal is a worldwide Islamic state, wouldn't that make it an established religion, technically?

i'm not sure that we both agree on that at all anymore than i'd say that christianity wants a worldwide christian state.

what do you mean by 'established religion'?

I posted my links and you basically conceded. Shall I post them again, or will you be intellectually honest?
BTW we are talking about islam.
Established religion, as in banned in the first amendment. as in : by accepting that religion, it would, in itself, be an established religion considering Islams goal as a worldwide caliphate.

Maybe Muslims come to America to escape the caliphate? Maybe they just want to be free to practice their own faith and live and let live? Otherwise they wouldn't have come here. They would have instead joined ISIS.

Their own faith is a world wide caliphate. I am sure some muslims might not believe in that and believe in individual liberty. Hell, I have a muslim friend that respects his gfs Christianity. Or was his gf. Havent spoken to him a couple years.. nonetheless, I guess we could pull a "American vetting process" and just ask em?

Or we could ask every American to vow to put the Constitution ahead of his or her persona faith and religion.

Normally the right would call something like that "An attack on religious freedom"- well if Christians had to do it too.

 

[Pogo]

What Harley doesn't want to address- because he just wants to argue about whether or not Islam is also a political system- is that Islam is a religion.

Does he want to argue that it is okay to ignore the Constitution if he says a religion is also a political system?

Who knows.

Islam is a religion. I am talking about using it as a political system to get banned. You can present things in different manners.
I have proven that Islams goal is an Islamic state. Which is a complete economic/social system. Which is bannable as per the constitution. You can skirt around the OP if you wish. I guess.

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

You have yet to essplain how that argument can be made.

 

[Syriusly]

What Harley doesn't want to address- because he just wants to argue about whether or not Islam is also a political system- is that Islam is a religion.

Does he want to argue that it is okay to ignore the Constitution if he says a religion is also a political system?

Who knows.

Islam is a religion. I am talking about using it as a political system to get banned. You can present things in different manners.
I have proven that Islams goal is an Islamic state. Which is a complete economic/social system. Which is bannable as per the constitution. You can skirt around the OP if you wish. I guess.

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

So you consider the Constitution of the United States as 'quaint'?

Again-

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

I actually respect the Constitution and our Bill of Rights.

Shame you don't.

 

[TNHarley]

That is completely and irrevocably illogical.

FGM has no religious function -- in any religion. It never did. Like "honor killing" its function is social structure/social status.

e.g. -- you don't wear a nice fancy suit because your religion demands it -- you wear it to exhibit a certain social status. It has no relevance to your spiritual leader or congregation -- it has relevance only to your community and peers.

Same thing.

It doesn't make a damn what YOU say Pogo. They put it in their religious teachings. They ADOPTED it into their religion. IDC if historically it had no religious ties. They made it that way.

again, it's not required in islam, and most muslims don't practice fgm.

That's fine. We were discussing it being a religious ritual. Which it is. Regardless if it happened pre-islam or not.

i'm not sure where you are getting the idea that it's a religious ritual

Another Association Fallacy.

By that logic, Christmas trees, the Easter bunny and playing golf or baseball must be "Judeo-Christian" rituals.

they sure did make it that way, didn't they?
dirty bastards stole an ancient roman new year celebration for Christmas? Bastards!

 

[TNHarley]

Islam is a religion. I am talking about using it as a political system to get banned. You can present things in different manners.
I have proven that Islams goal is an Islamic state. Which is a complete economic/social system. Which is bannable as per the constitution. You can skirt around the OP if you wish. I guess.

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

You have yet to essplain how that argument can be made.

OMG
That islam, by the very basic teachings, requires an Islamic state. For it to be a true isalmic state, they must go by the guidelines for property, justice, economy and other ways that was outlined in their teachings.

 

[Pogo]

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

You have yet to essplain how that argument can be made.

OMG
That islam, by the very basic teachings, requires an Islamic state. For it to be a true isalmic state, they must go by the guidelines for property, justice, economy and other ways that was outlined in their teachings.

I count at least three times you've made that claim. I count zero times you've backed it up with anything.

 

[ogibillm]

What Harley doesn't want to address- because he just wants to argue about whether or not Islam is also a political system- is that Islam is a religion.

Does he want to argue that it is okay to ignore the Constitution if he says a religion is also a political system?

Who knows.

Islam is a religion. I am talking about using it as a political system to get banned. You can present things in different manners.
I have proven that Islams goal is an Islamic state. Which is a complete economic/social system. Which is bannable as per the constitution. You can skirt around the OP if you wish. I guess.

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

and that wouldn't matter. you could present it as a gift guide for the holidays, or as a phone book and astronomical record.

islam is a religion. that is the only part that matters.

 

[Pogo]

It doesn't make a damn what YOU say Pogo. They put it in their religious teachings. They ADOPTED it into their religion. IDC if historically it had no religious ties. They made it that way.

again, it's not required in islam, and most muslims don't practice fgm.

That's fine. We were discussing it being a religious ritual. Which it is. Regardless if it happened pre-islam or not.

i'm not sure where you are getting the idea that it's a religious ritual

Another Association Fallacy.

By that logic, Christmas trees, the Easter bunny and playing golf or baseball must be "Judeo-Christian" rituals.

they sure did make it that way, didn't they?
dirty bastards stole an ancient roman new year celebration for Christmas? Bastards!

Zackly. But the fact that (some) Christians run around with "Keep Christ in Christmas" on their car's rear bumper while it brings home the wounded woody warrior fir for the hearth -- doesn't make the fir a "Christian ritual".

Coincidence is not causation.

 

[TNHarley]

Islam is a religion. I am talking about using it as a political system to get banned. You can present things in different manners.
I have proven that Islams goal is an Islamic state. Which is a complete economic/social system. Which is bannable as per the constitution. You can skirt around the OP if you wish. I guess.

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

and that wouldn't matter. you could present it as a gift guide for the holidays, or as a phone book and astronomical record.

islam is a religion. that is the only part that matters.

Is it? See, we can block religious aspects if they are deemed harmful to society. Didn't the SC outlaw polygamy a while back? Why wouldn't a religion that is a threat to America itself NOT be worthy?

 

[ogibillm]

Tell me exactly how you ban Islam as a political system- while not also unconstitutionally banning Islam- the religion.

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

and that wouldn't matter. you could present it as a gift guide for the holidays, or as a phone book and astronomical record.

islam is a religion. that is the only part that matters.

Is it? See, we can block religious aspects if they are deemed harmful to society. Didn't the SC outlaw polygamy a while back? Why wouldn't a religion that is a threat to America itself NOT be worthy?

oh, so you want to block a practice.
okay, what practice would you like to block, and why?

 

[TNHarley]

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

You have yet to essplain how that argument can be made.

OMG
That islam, by the very basic teachings, requires an Islamic state. For it to be a true isalmic state, they must go by the guidelines for property, justice, economy and other ways that was outlined in their teachings.

I count at least three times you've made that claim. I count zero times you've backed it up with anything.

"Islam provides details for every facet of a person’s life, while this is not found in any other religion" (vol. 4, p. 285). ----Mufti Muhammad Aashiq Illahi Muhajir Madani
: “To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause “ (Al Bukhari vol. 1:25 )
Mohammed said, “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah” (Al Bukhari vol. 4:196).
“Whoever seeks other than Islam as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be with the losers” “Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day…. Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! (Sura 9:5,29,41).
“To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause” (Al Bukhari vol. 1:25)
Sura 8:12 “Remember your Lord inspired the angels with the message: “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
“Take not the Jews and Christians for friends ... slay the idolaters [infidels] wherever ye find them. ...Fight against those who ... believe not in Allah nor the Last Day” (Sura 5:51; 9:5,29,41).
Sura 4:95 “Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home.”
Just a few of HUNDREDS of verses from muh himself. You have to read it pogo. You don't even know what the hadith is. IDK why you even want to argue about islam.

 

[TNHarley]

It isn't two separate things. Islam is a religion and a political system.
See, I am giving the premise to constitutionally ban islam. Stop skirting around the OP!

Where exactly in your Constitution do you see it saying you can ban a religion- if that religion is also a political system?

Here is what my Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Show me what yours says

a hack lefty taking the word of the COTUS strictly. How quaint.
AGAIN, this could be presented to the courts as a political system. Regardless if you like it or not.

and that wouldn't matter. you could present it as a gift guide for the holidays, or as a phone book and astronomical record.

islam is a religion. that is the only part that matters.

Is it? See, we can block religious aspects if they are deemed harmful to society. Didn't the SC outlaw polygamy a while back? Why wouldn't a religion that is a threat to America itself NOT be worthy?

oh, so you want to block a practice.
okay, what practice would you like to block, and why?

no, I don't want to block specific practices.