Corporate welfare in action ....

[Aries]

So if you people want to pay Americans $2 an hour ..why are you so hell bent on deporting immigrants who provide cheap labor?

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Also depends on the value of living costs.

 

[danielpalos]

So if you people want to pay Americans $2 an hour ..why are you so hell bent on deporting immigrants who provide cheap labor?

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour anyway. Why not simply provide recourse to unemployment compensation to Labor, so they can maintain their, ready reserve labor force status?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So if you people want to pay Americans $2 an hour ..why are you so hell bent on deporting immigrants who provide cheap labor?

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour anyway. Why not simply provide recourse to unemployment compensation to Labor, so they can maintain their, ready reserve labor force status?

Yeah, we need a "ready reserve" of stoners living in their Mom's basement. Just in case.

 

[danielpalos]

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour anyway. Why not simply provide recourse to unemployment compensation to Labor, so they can maintain their, ready reserve labor force status?

Yeah, we need a "ready reserve" of stoners living in their Mom's basement. Just in case.

Yes, we do; readiness costs money.

 

[Conservative65]

If the employer needs an employee then that job should pay enough to live on or that job shouldn't exist.

That's quite the nutty statement.

So if you people want to pay Americans $2 an hour ..why are you so hell bent on deporting immigrants who provide cheap labor?

Me people want to pay a fair wage for the work required, and pay it to Americans. The people I wish to deport are not immigrants, but opportunists.

Boot out the illegals, trim welfare significantly, and just watch how fast those "jobs that Americans won't do" are filled by Americans.

Said that for years. Get rid of the illegals and offer the jobs the illegals are doing to those supposedly unwilling to do those jobs. If those living on social welfare refuse to take it, no more handouts. It solves two problems. Illegals gone and freeloaders either working or no longer being handed something for refusing to work.

Culture, we don't want to become Greece where the lazy think they can sit around on their ass and other people should work to pay their bills. Nancy Pelosi's daughter interviewed a able bodied man standing in line at a welfare office, the guy admitted he hasn't worked a job in 5 years.

That's interesting. That's how long I think he should have gone without whatever the taxpayers were forced to provide him.

I have no problem helping those who truly can't help themselves or who are in a place not of their own doing. However, someone that is unwilling to work or whose own bad choices caused their place in life will be ignored.

 

[Conservative65]

So if you people want to pay Americans $2 an hour ..why are you so hell bent on deporting immigrants who provide cheap labor?

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

As long as the person paying them is doing it because they chose to rather than the government mandating a minimum amount.

So the government shouldn't dictate actions in the economy?

The government shouldn't dictate to a business owner the minimum he/she has to pay an employee. If said employee has such low skills they can't make enough to survive, it's not the fault of the business owner paying that employee but the employee having such low skills.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour anyway. Why not simply provide recourse to unemployment compensation to Labor, so they can maintain their, ready reserve labor force status?

Yeah, we need a "ready reserve" of stoners living in their Mom's basement. Just in case.

Yes, we do; readiness costs money.

In case we're attacked by snack foods from outer space.

DERP!

 

[danielpalos]

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour anyway. Why not simply provide recourse to unemployment compensation to Labor, so they can maintain their, ready reserve labor force status?

Yeah, we need a "ready reserve" of stoners living in their Mom's basement. Just in case.

Yes, we do; readiness costs money.

In case we're attacked by snack foods from outer space.

DERP!

ingredients cost money, dears.

 

[Brain357]

So if you people want to pay Americans $2 an hour ..why are you so hell bent on deporting immigrants who provide cheap labor?

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

As long as the person paying them is doing it because they chose to rather than the government mandating a minimum amount.

So the government shouldn't dictate actions in the economy?

The government shouldn't dictate to a business owner the minimum he/she has to pay an employee. If said employee has such low skills they can't make enough to survive, it's not the fault of the business owner paying that employee but the employee having such low skills.

So the government shouldn't be giving out corporate welfare then either. If they can't even dictate good wages it should all be free market capitalism!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So if you people want to pay Americans $2 an hour ..why are you so hell bent on deporting immigrants who provide cheap labor?

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Completely wrong. Let me tell you what your value as an employee is: you are only worth as much as the next person your employer can find to do the same job with the same quality of work. That's it.

If you operate a drill press and make 20 dollars an hour, the reason you are paid 20 an hour and not ten is because your employer can't find a good drill press operator for ten bucks an hour. In fact he probably couldn't find a good operator for fifteen. That is why you are worth 20.

If your talent and experience only extend to making french fries or sweeping floors, anybody can make french fries or sweep floors. Therefore you are paid minimum wage because your employer can get anybody to do those jobs.

When you acquire experience, learn a trade, or otherwise do work that less people are capable of doing, your value as an employee increases. You can find 50 people to sweep your floors, but you're not going to find 50 mechanical engineers to create machines that make the parts you produce.

Back in the early 80's I attended electronics school for my job. But working full time and going to class three nights a week really started to burn me out quickly. So I questioned my teacher about how much I could make after I graduate at the end of the year. He told me about 16K a year. Stunned, I asked what kind of money I could make if I graduated with a two year associates degree? He told me about 18K.

Electronics is very difficult. It's a lot of math and training. So why such little pay? Because at the time, everybody and their mother wanted to get into electronics. Supply and demand.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't suppose it occurs to you to consider why it costs so much.

Yea it has occurred to me....
Apparently edu is a privilege of the wealthy in this country.

Hmmm. I can't wait to tell my sister she is wealthy. She'll be surprised to learn that. She actually feels broke trying to repay the college loans of her two children. She'll probably be paying on those until she retires. But of course she has it better than her kids who are in their 30's now with no end in sight repaying their portions of the college loans.

Wow. Proving my point?
Your sister and her kids are shining examples of the problem. People shouldn't be in debt their entire life to get an edu.

I agree. But who should pay for it?

I think we need to first start with lowering costs and making it more affordable. Everything is overpriced, edu like every thing else here is run like a business. They charge kids 700$ for a 100$ book. High prices for food they have to choke down. Just a class it's self can be over a grand. Every thing is inflated in price for profit.
Cut
That
Shit
Out
Let's get prices down to actual worth of what they're paying for would be a start. If tax dollars or even donation dollars that currently go to grants and loans etc was used on lower overall costs every student would benefit more.
I don't think we can snap our fingers and make edu free but we need to lower the costs and it needs to start now. An educated population benefits our country as a whole. We will have more productivity and less poverty.

So how do you propose to do that? College is supply and demand like any other industry. When there is more demand than supply, prices increase.

When I was a kid in high school, I was part of the baby boom generation so it wasn't that uncommon to have 30 students in a class. Out of that 30 student class, perhaps 8 or 10 of them went to college, and Lord knows how many of them graduated.

Today college is almost a necessity. So compared to my younger days, a class of 30 today would have at least 25 of them attending college.

 

[Brain357]

So if you people want to pay Americans $2 an hour ..why are you so hell bent on deporting immigrants who provide cheap labor?

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Completely wrong. Let me tell you what your value as an employee is: you are only worth as much as the next person your employer can find to do the same job with the same quality of work. That's it.

If you operate a drill press and make 20 dollars an hour, the reason you are paid 20 an hour and not ten is because your employer can't find a good drill press operator for ten bucks an hour. In fact he probably couldn't find a good operator for fifteen. That is why you are worth 20.

If your talent and experience only extend to making french fries or sweeping floors, anybody can make french fries or sweep floors. Therefore you are paid minimum wage because your employer can get anybody to do those jobs.

When you acquire experience, learn a trade, or otherwise do work that less people are capable of doing, your value as an employee increases. You can find 50 people to sweep your floors, but you're not going to find 50 mechanical engineers to create machines that make the parts you produce.

Back in the early 80's I attended electronics school for my job. But working full time and going to class three nights a week really started to burn me out quickly. So I questioned my teacher about how much I could make after I graduate at the end of the year. He told me about 16K a year. Stunned, I asked what kind of money I could make if I graduated with a two year associates degree? He told me about 18K.

Electronics is very difficult. It's a lot of math and training. So why such little pay? Because at the time, everybody and their mother wanted to get into electronics. Supply and demand.

I wouldn't say he is completely wrong. I have seen some rather worthless workers doing ok because they knew the right people. Certainly they got paid more than their work was worth.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then let's fix our immigration system. Let's create a path to citizenship. Let's stick to our founding principles of welcoming immigration.

We allow one million immigrants to this country every year; the legal ones I mean. How many more do you want?

One of the reasons we are becoming a bilingual society is because we have too many foreigners here. They are not assimilating or adopting the American ways. That's why we keep it down to just one million. We don't need people coming here and changing our country into theirs which is what's happening today.

so why do they want to come here if all they want is to live in their home country again? I lost that alignment somewhere in the desert.

Because of money. The American dollar goes a long way in other places. So they come here, cram a dozen or so people into a two bedroom apartment or house, send their money back home, and after a couple of years, go back to their country and live like a king for a while.

 

[Brain357]

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then let's fix our immigration system. Let's create a path to citizenship. Let's stick to our founding principles of welcoming immigration.

We allow one million immigrants to this country every year; the legal ones I mean. How many more do you want?

One of the reasons we are becoming a bilingual society is because we have too many foreigners here. They are not assimilating or adopting the American ways. That's why we keep it down to just one million. We don't need people coming here and changing our country into theirs which is what's happening today.

Gaining citizenship takes a long time these days. Implying a million a year are given citizenship with in 12 months is ridiculous. Where's your source? Being here legally doesn't always mean someone's a citizen...

On to your other bologna, what's wrong with being bilingual and having diversity?

There is nothing wrong with being bilingual if the citizens are not forced into it and they want a bilingual nation. But we don't. I don't want to have to press anything on my phone to speak English. I'm offended when I go to vote and they ask what language I want my ballot in. If you can't read or write English, GTF out of my country!

Yes, gaining citizenship does take a long time. It's like that for a reason......again, to allow people to assimilate slowly. But believe it or not, years ago we completely closed down our borders for a number of years because of the problems we have today with immigrants; they were not assimilating.

So now we let them in slowly (or supposed to) so we don't have cultural changes here. But because we didn't really stick to that, we are experiencing changes we don't want or need.

It's a privilege to be part of this country, it's not a privilege for us to have you. We don't need anymore people here; we have over 320 million now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Whose problem is that?

Everyone's since were all paying tax dollars to support our impoverished. I'd prefer to minimize poverty than shell out my money. But to minimize poverty we have to address it's causes. A huge problem is that education now costs a small fortune. The more out of reach edu is the more poverty we will accumulate. The more out of reach edu is, the less competitive our country will be on a global scale.

I don't suppose it occurs to you to consider why it costs so much.

Yea it has occurred to me....
Apparently edu is a privilege of the wealthy in this country.

Hmmm. I can't wait to tell my sister she is wealthy. She'll be surprised to learn that. She actually feels broke trying to repay the college loans of her two children. She'll probably be paying on those until she retires. But of course she has it better than her kids who are in their 30's now with no end in sight repaying their portions of the college loans.

Wow. Proving my point?
Your sister and her kids are shining examples of the problem. People shouldn't be in debt their entire life to get an edu.

It's up to the individual. But to say advanced education is only available to the rich is totally false. Middle-class people are in college today and will be tomorrow.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If someone is only worth $2.00 an hour, why should they be paid more?

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Completely wrong. Let me tell you what your value as an employee is: you are only worth as much as the next person your employer can find to do the same job with the same quality of work. That's it.

If you operate a drill press and make 20 dollars an hour, the reason you are paid 20 an hour and not ten is because your employer can't find a good drill press operator for ten bucks an hour. In fact he probably couldn't find a good operator for fifteen. That is why you are worth 20.

If your talent and experience only extend to making french fries or sweeping floors, anybody can make french fries or sweep floors. Therefore you are paid minimum wage because your employer can get anybody to do those jobs.

When you acquire experience, learn a trade, or otherwise do work that less people are capable of doing, your value as an employee increases. You can find 50 people to sweep your floors, but you're not going to find 50 mechanical engineers to create machines that make the parts you produce.

Back in the early 80's I attended electronics school for my job. But working full time and going to class three nights a week really started to burn me out quickly. So I questioned my teacher about how much I could make after I graduate at the end of the year. He told me about 16K a year. Stunned, I asked what kind of money I could make if I graduated with a two year associates degree? He told me about 18K.

Electronics is very difficult. It's a lot of math and training. So why such little pay? Because at the time, everybody and their mother wanted to get into electronics. Supply and demand.

I wouldn't say he is completely wrong. I have seen some rather worthless workers doing ok because they knew the right people. Certainly they got paid more than their work was worth.

Those are anomalies and not the norm. Most industries pay the least they can to get the work done. Ass kissers are in every industry. Sometimes it works for them and sometimes it doesn't. Where I work, my employer keeps worthless drivers. Why? Out of compassion. His theory is if he doesn't give them a job, they won't find a job anywhere and perhaps find themselves homeless or something. They do work, but of course he doesn't give them raises because they are not as productive as the rest of us.

 

[Brain357]

Someone else might value their labor more.

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Completely wrong. Let me tell you what your value as an employee is: you are only worth as much as the next person your employer can find to do the same job with the same quality of work. That's it.

If you operate a drill press and make 20 dollars an hour, the reason you are paid 20 an hour and not ten is because your employer can't find a good drill press operator for ten bucks an hour. In fact he probably couldn't find a good operator for fifteen. That is why you are worth 20.

If your talent and experience only extend to making french fries or sweeping floors, anybody can make french fries or sweep floors. Therefore you are paid minimum wage because your employer can get anybody to do those jobs.

When you acquire experience, learn a trade, or otherwise do work that less people are capable of doing, your value as an employee increases. You can find 50 people to sweep your floors, but you're not going to find 50 mechanical engineers to create machines that make the parts you produce.

Back in the early 80's I attended electronics school for my job. But working full time and going to class three nights a week really started to burn me out quickly. So I questioned my teacher about how much I could make after I graduate at the end of the year. He told me about 16K a year. Stunned, I asked what kind of money I could make if I graduated with a two year associates degree? He told me about 18K.

Electronics is very difficult. It's a lot of math and training. So why such little pay? Because at the time, everybody and their mother wanted to get into electronics. Supply and demand.

I wouldn't say he is completely wrong. I have seen some rather worthless workers doing ok because they knew the right people. Certainly they got paid more than their work was worth.

Those are anomalies and not the norm. Most industries pay the least they can to get the work done. Ass kissers are in every industry. Sometimes it works for them and sometimes it doesn't. Where I work, my employer keeps worthless drivers. Why? Out of compassion. His theory is if he doesn't give them a job, they won't find a job anywhere and perhaps find themselves homeless or something. They do work, but of course he doesn't give them raises because they are not as productive as the rest of us.

I think they are more normal than you think. Like you said, your work has them too.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then that's when they should leave to work for that someone else.

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Completely wrong. Let me tell you what your value as an employee is: you are only worth as much as the next person your employer can find to do the same job with the same quality of work. That's it.

If you operate a drill press and make 20 dollars an hour, the reason you are paid 20 an hour and not ten is because your employer can't find a good drill press operator for ten bucks an hour. In fact he probably couldn't find a good operator for fifteen. That is why you are worth 20.

If your talent and experience only extend to making french fries or sweeping floors, anybody can make french fries or sweep floors. Therefore you are paid minimum wage because your employer can get anybody to do those jobs.

When you acquire experience, learn a trade, or otherwise do work that less people are capable of doing, your value as an employee increases. You can find 50 people to sweep your floors, but you're not going to find 50 mechanical engineers to create machines that make the parts you produce.

Back in the early 80's I attended electronics school for my job. But working full time and going to class three nights a week really started to burn me out quickly. So I questioned my teacher about how much I could make after I graduate at the end of the year. He told me about 16K a year. Stunned, I asked what kind of money I could make if I graduated with a two year associates degree? He told me about 18K.

Electronics is very difficult. It's a lot of math and training. So why such little pay? Because at the time, everybody and their mother wanted to get into electronics. Supply and demand.

I wouldn't say he is completely wrong. I have seen some rather worthless workers doing ok because they knew the right people. Certainly they got paid more than their work was worth.

Those are anomalies and not the norm. Most industries pay the least they can to get the work done. Ass kissers are in every industry. Sometimes it works for them and sometimes it doesn't. Where I work, my employer keeps worthless drivers. Why? Out of compassion. His theory is if he doesn't give them a job, they won't find a job anywhere and perhaps find themselves homeless or something. They do work, but of course he doesn't give them raises because they are not as productive as the rest of us.

I think they are more normal than you think. Like you said, your work has them too.

Yes we do and other places do as well. But it's not always "knowing somebody" that keeps them working. Most of our crew are good workers and somewhat sensible. We always discuss why our employer doesn't fire those who are not pulling their weight. But as stated, my employer never gives them raises nor gives them any considerations when they need to take extra time off or want more hours. He saves the extras for the productive members of our crew.

 

[dblack]

My point is just that we talk about what people are worth or, more accurately, what their labor is worth - but it's not an intrinsic value. It's entirely subjective. What a job is worth depends on who is paying for it and who is doing the work.

Completely wrong. Let me tell you what your value as an employee is ...

This is why shorter posts are usually a good idea. So much typing, but you stepped in it right out of the gate. My whole point is that economic value is subjective. You literally can't tell me what my labor is worth. All you can do is tell me what it's worth to you.