Conservatives or Liberals for freedom – what significant difference?

[mattskramer]

I guess that the talking heads on talk radio are trying to get people to become conservatives. Yet, their rhetoric is so deceptive. They keep saying that conservatives are for individual liberty and less government involvement in people’s lives. I think that there should be a caveat or a more narrow definition. The conservatives might be for more economic freedom and deregulation, but they are certainly not for individual freedom at the personal level. I ask you – Who would be more likely to oppose marijuana consumption, prostitution, gay civil unions, gamboling, etc? The conservatives and liberals: Neither side supports freedom to any significantly greater degree than does the other. One might support more economic freedom but the side that does so makes up for it by supporting the illegalization of many personal choices. Yet, to speak with such analytical clarity would make for boring drawn-out conversation, wouldn’t it?

 

[Diuretic]

Just goes to show that the labels "conservative" and "liberal" mean absolutely nothing.

 

[eots]

I guess that the talking heads on talk radio are trying to get people to become conservatives. Yet, their rhetoric is so deceptive. They keep saying that conservatives are for individual liberty and less government involvement in people’s lives. I think that there should be a caveat or a more narrow definition. The conservatives might be for more economic freedom and deregulation, but they are certainly not for individual freedom at the personal level. I ask you – Who would be more likely to oppose marijuana consumption, prostitution, gay civil unions, gamboling, etc? The conservatives and liberals: Neither side supports freedom to any significantly greater degree than does the other. One might support more economic freedom but the side that does so makes up for it by supporting the illegalization of many personal choices. Yet, to speak with such analytical clarity would make for boring drawn-out conversation, wouldn’t it?

two words...RON PAUL

 

[Gunny]

I guess that the talking heads on talk radio are trying to get people to become conservatives. Yet, their rhetoric is so deceptive. They keep saying that conservatives are for individual liberty and less government involvement in people’s lives. I think that there should be a caveat or a more narrow definition. The conservatives might be for more economic freedom and deregulation, but they are certainly not for individual freedom at the personal level. I ask you – Who would be more likely to oppose marijuana consumption, prostitution, gay civil unions, gamboling, etc? The conservatives and liberals: Neither side supports freedom to any significantly greater degree than does the other. One might support more economic freedom but the side that does so makes up for it by supporting the illegalization of many personal choices. Yet, to speak with such analytical clarity would make for boring drawn-out conversation, wouldn’t it?

Both liberals and conservatives want and attempt to tell others what's "right," and attempt to tell others what they should think. As you say, it's only a matter of wich specific they are doing the telling about.

IMO, the extremes on either side (which no thinks *they* are one of) do not reperesent the views of the masses in the middle.

 

[midcan5]

I notice too how conservatives are assuming liberal positions due to the Iraq war in particular I think. But if one is a genuine conservative they need to spell out what they believe as Kirk does.

The Russell Kirk Center for Cultural Renewal.
http://www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/ten-principles.html

"Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety. They feel affection for the proliferating intricacy of long-established social institutions and modes of life, as distinguished from the narrowing uniformity and deadening egalitarianism of radical systems. For the preservation of a healthy diversity in any civilization, there must survive orders and classes, differences in material condition, and many sorts of inequality. The only true forms of equality are equality at the Last Judgment and equality before a just court of law; all other attempts at levelling must lead, at best, to social stagnation. Society requires honest and able leadership; and if natural and institutional differences are destroyed, presently some tyrant or host of squalid oligarchs will create new forms of inequality."

 

[Gunny]

I notice too how conservatives are assuming liberal positions due to the Iraq war in particular I think. But if one is a genuine conservative they need to spell out what they believe as Kirk does.

The Russell Kirk Center for Cultural Renewal.
http://www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/ten-principles.html

"Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety. They feel affection for the proliferating intricacy of long-established social institutions and modes of life, as distinguished from the narrowing uniformity and deadening egalitarianism of radical systems. For the preservation of a healthy diversity in any civilization, there must survive orders and classes, differences in material condition, and many sorts of inequality. The only true forms of equality are equality at the Last Judgment and equality before a just court of law; all other attempts at levelling must lead, at best, to social stagnation. Society requires honest and able leadership; and if natural and institutional differences are destroyed, presently some tyrant or host of squalid oligarchs will create new forms of inequality."

And liberals assume conservative positions ... they just draw their line in the sand in a different place.

 

[Paulie]

I notice too how conservatives are assuming liberal positions due to the Iraq war in particular I think. But if one is a genuine conservative they need to spell out what they believe as Kirk does.

The Russell Kirk Center for Cultural Renewal.
http://www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/ten-principles.html

"Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety. They feel affection for the proliferating intricacy of long-established social institutions and modes of life, as distinguished from the narrowing uniformity and deadening egalitarianism of radical systems. For the preservation of a healthy diversity in any civilization, there must survive orders and classes, differences in material condition, and many sorts of inequality. The only true forms of equality are equality at the Last Judgment and equality before a just court of law; all other attempts at levelling must lead, at best, to social stagnation. Society requires honest and able leadership; and if natural and institutional differences are destroyed, presently some tyrant or host of squalid oligarchs will create new forms of inequality."

Noone tells me what "kind" of conservative I am. I make up my own description for myself. It's ridiculous that people feel a need to conform to a certain label.

 

[rayboyusmc]

So is O'Reilly wrong to say we are a country of secular progressives and traditional Americans?

 

[midcan5]

So is O'Reilly wrong to say we are a country of secular progressives and traditional Americans?

Well no, yes, lol - actually those are good words right? If you say liberal to a conservative or conservative to a liberal then you are saying something. But maybe 'secular progressives' is a bit more complicated. Some SP would call themselves libertarians with a straight face. Ah the power of language.

 

[mattskramer]

So is O'Reilly wrong to say we are a country of secular progressives and traditional Americans?

I think that he is wrong to compartmentalize people. There are people practically on all points of the political spectrum. What must you believe to be a conservative? What must you believe to be a liberal? What if you believe in some liberal things and some conservative things?

I think that jails and prisons should be tougher. A life sentence should be a life sentence. Bring back chain gangs and hard labor. Take away amusements like television for the convicts. You might think of me as a “tough on crime” conservative but I also oppose the death penalty.

I think that women should be allowed to have abortions under very rare and special circumstances. Does that make me pro-life or pro choice?

No. America consists of more than secular progressives and traditional Americans. There are ultra conservatives, moderate conservatives, Republicans, moderate Republicans, liberal republicans, moderates, conservative Democrats, moderate Democrats, Democrats, liberal Democrats, and ultra liberals.