Cluster Munitions Treaty Leaves US Behind

[JBeukema]

BANGKOK – A campaign to rid the world of cluster munitions has still to rope in the U.S. government, a major producer and stockpiler of the deadly payload, on the eve of a key global conference in Laos to ban its production and use.
The mixed messages that Washington has been sending are expected to hover over the historic cluster munitions conference to be held Nov. 9-12 in Laos, a poverty-stricken Southeast Asian country still grappling with the legacy of the bombs dropped by U.S. warplanes four decades ago.
Thus far, there are few signs that a U.S. government delegation will be attending the meeting as observers.
“We are hoping they [the U.S. government] will send a delegation even at the last moment,” says Thomas Nash, coordinator of the Cluster Munitions Coalition (CMC), a global network of civil society groups that have thrown their weight behind the world’s newest disarmament treaty, the Cluster Munitions Convention.

Cluster Munitions Treaty Leaves US Behind by Marwaan Macan-Markar -- Antiwar.com

 

[uscitizen]

Yeah us and Israel...

 

[Trajan]

familiar with the highway of death?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmXleZXAr0[/ame]

maybe we should have fixed bayonets?

 

[Mr. H.]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYnWTd8v8M[/ame]

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Good, we have no reason to suspend or stop using or producing them.

 

[uscitizen]

All the killed and maimed Palestinian children?
Lots of unexploded munitions got found by children...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

All the killed and maimed Palestinian children?
Lots of unexploded munitions got found by children...

War is hell. I see no reason to give up a very effective weapon cause the people that started the war are hurt by the weapon. But then that is just me.

 

[JBeukema]

All the killed and maimed Palestinian children?
Lots of unexploded munitions got found by children...

War is hell. I see no reason to give up a very effective weapon cause the people that started the war are hurt by the weapon. But then that is just me.

Yes... the children of the guy who happened to live in the same country as the target started the war...

 

[Epsilon Delta]

All the killed and maimed Palestinian children?
Lots of unexploded munitions got found by children...

War is hell. I see no reason to give up a very effective weapon cause the people that started the war are hurt by the weapon. But then that is just me.

Yes... the children of the guy who happened to live in the same country as the target started the war...

Or his grandchildren. The biggest thing about Cluster Munitions is that they leave behind tons of unexploded ordinance, and they can last for decades. These things still turn up and kill people in Laos for godsakes.

In Kosovo, 62.5% of the civilian victims in the year after the conflict (March 1999–August 2000) were boys under 18 (Handicap International). Those killed or injured by submunitions were five times more likely to be under the age of 14 than those injured by anti-personnel mines (ICRC). Data gathered by UXO Lao since 1999 in areas where it operates indicates that more than 50% of the victims in Laos are children. In Cambodia, boys aged between 6 and 15 represent 37.8% of all cluster submunition victims (Handicap International, 2007)

Incidents involving children usually occur while they are playing, carrying out livelihood activities or collecting scrap metal. In Afghanistan, children make up 36.3% of overall victims and 40% of post-strike victims. The most common activity at the time of these incidents is tending animals, with children constituting 52% of those that become victims while tending animals. (Handicap International, 2007). In Laos, the price of scrap metal rose significantly between 2002 and 2005, and children were reported as being regularly engaged in scrap collecting, including the collection of explosive ordnance (GICHD).

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/cluster-munitions-victims-factsheet-020208/$File/cluster-munition-victims-factsheet-2010.pdf

Now all of this is pretty extreme in this day and age, but of course, anything for the Power and Glory of the Empire! The blood of their children for decades to come will teach them to Fear.

For God, King and Country!

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/cluster-munition-contamination-factsheet-020208/$File/cluster-munition-contamination-factsheet-2010.pdf

 

[RetiredGySgt]

To damn bad. You are aware that the munitions used in the Vietnam war are not the same as what are used now, RIGHT?

By the way, regular bombs kill too and can last just as long as cluster munitions. They still occasionally find live ordnance from WW2 in places like Okinawa and London. Shall we just ban all bombs?

My personal opinion is keep cluster munitions and return to using Napalm as well. Anyone that thinks war is clean and neat is a nut job. Same with land mines, we never signed that treaty either and continue to use them. They are effective.

 

[daveman]

Perhaps we should develop a bomb that wafts kittens and cookies gently down on the enemy.

 

[Mini 14]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYnWTd8v8M

That is awesome.

When I get ready to kill my enemies, that is EXACTLY the kind of shit I want.

The object of war isn't to impress the world with your kindness in vanquishing the enemy. It is to kill, conquer, and defeat.

There are no rules, and those who seek to apply them are only fooling themselves.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Typical blood-thirsty American militarists. Your hypocritical leaders (of either party) go up there on the podiums and the TV screens exhorting to the world how moral and just your "war" is, how they're wars to "protect freedom" and "give democracy" and what a great sacrifice you make to save the world from communsits and dictators, when in reality there's nothing better for your pathetic self-esteem than seeing "enemy" children get blown up into pieces.

But hey, everything's fair in War, no? It's no clean business, afterall. And what more effective way than to murder thousands of "enemies" than to fly planes into crowded buildings in "enemy" cities? I mean, others might think it's absolutely barbaric, but not me, I think everything's fair in war.

Oh but noo, Epsilon, how dare you even think of that? When "WE" indiscriminately bomb civilians it's good, because we're the good guys and we represent the course of history. It's only horrifically barbaric when "THEY" do it.

 

[Mr. H.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYnWTd8v8M

That is awesome.

When I get ready to kill my enemies, that is EXACTLY the kind of shit I want.

The object of war isn't to impress the world with your kindness in vanquishing the enemy. It is to kill, conquer, and defeat.

There are no rules, and those who seek to apply them are only fooling themselves.

Well, it is heartbreaking to see the damage from unexploded ordinance. But I'd hate to see our country in a situation and then find itself wondering how many troops' lives could have been saved if only we didn't outlaw cluster munitions.

 

[uscitizen]

Perhaps we should develop a bomb that wafts kittens and cookies gently down on the enemy.

Might win their "hearts and minds" sooner that way.

 

[JBeukema]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYnWTd8v8M

That is awesome.

When I get ready to kill my enemies, that is EXACTLY the kind of shit I want.

The object of war isn't to impress the world with your kindness in vanquishing the enemy. It is to kill, conquer, and defeat.

There are no rules, and those who seek to apply them are only fooling themselves.

Sounds like exactly what Genghis Kahn or Osama bin Laden would tell the troops before committing mass murder against noncombatants...

 

[daveman]

Perhaps we should develop a bomb that wafts kittens and cookies gently down on the enemy.

Might win their "hearts and minds" sooner that way.

News flash: You can't negotiate with or win over people who want nothing more than to stand over your corpse.

 

[JBeukema]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYnWTd8v8M

That is awesome.

When I get ready to kill my enemies, that is EXACTLY the kind of shit I want.

The object of war isn't to impress the world with your kindness in vanquishing the enemy. It is to kill, conquer, and defeat.

There are no rules, and those who seek to apply them are only fooling themselves.

Well, it is heartbreaking to see the damage from unexploded ordinance. But I'd hate to see our country in a situation and then find itself wondering how many troops' lives could have been saved if only we didn't outlaw cluster munitions.

how many troops' lives could have been saved if only we didn't outlaw the use of nerve gas?

how many troops' lives could have been saved if only we'd only used the a-bomb?


how many troops' lives could have been saved if only we'd only used the h-bomb?

how many troops' lives could have been saved if only we'd only used the n-bomb?

how many troops' lives could have been saved if only we'd only used mustard gas in fullujah?

 

[uscitizen]

Perhaps we should develop a bomb that wafts kittens and cookies gently down on the enemy.

Might win their "hearts and minds" sooner that way.

News flash: You can't negotiate with or win over people who want nothing more than to stand over your corpse.

About like with those that drop cluster munitions on your children?

I wonder how many families in Iraq had NOT had a family member killed by the USA?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

War is hell. I see no reason to give up a very effective weapon cause the people that started the war are hurt by the weapon. But then that is just me.

Yes... the children of the guy who happened to live in the same country as the target started the war...

Or his grandchildren. The biggest thing about Cluster Munitions is that they leave behind tons of unexploded ordinance, and they can last for decades. These things still turn up and kill people in Laos for godsakes.

In Kosovo, 62.5% of the civilian victims in the year after the conflict (March 1999–August 2000) were boys under 18 (Handicap International). Those killed or injured by submunitions were five times more likely to be under the age of 14 than those injured by anti-personnel mines (ICRC). Data gathered by UXO Lao since 1999 in areas where it operates indicates that more than 50% of the victims in Laos are children. In Cambodia, boys aged between 6 and 15 represent 37.8% of all cluster submunition victims (Handicap International, 2007)

Incidents involving children usually occur while they are playing, carrying out livelihood activities or collecting scrap metal. In Afghanistan, children make up 36.3% of overall victims and 40% of post-strike victims. The most common activity at the time of these incidents is tending animals, with children constituting 52% of those that become victims while tending animals. (Handicap International, 2007). In Laos, the price of scrap metal rose significantly between 2002 and 2005, and children were reported as being regularly engaged in scrap collecting, including the collection of explosive ordnance (GICHD).

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/cluster-munitions-victims-factsheet-020208/$File/cluster-munition-victims-factsheet-2010.pdf

Now all of this is pretty extreme in this day and age, but of course, anything for the Power and Glory of the Empire! The blood of their children for decades to come will teach them to Fear.

For God, King and Country!

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/cluster-munition-contamination-factsheet-020208/$File/cluster-munition-contamination-factsheet-2010.pdf

There are still unexploded shells from the civil war around, should we outlaw cannons? Bombs from WWII, should we make it really easy and outlaw planes?

All this treaty will do is make a few do gooders feel good about themselves, and prohibit the countries that actually need these weapons to take out armored columns no alternative except surrender. That might work in your fantasy world, but the real world needs more than wishful thinking.