Clash of Cultures...

[pbel]

Is it not a Fact that Einstein spoke those words after refusing to be Israel's first President? My conclusions seem simple observations. Today Turkey shot down a Russian Plane.

There's no doubt in my mind that WWlll will start here...Israel and her Neo-Con friends of Wolfowitz and friends got GW to fight in Iraq, Israel opened up the Pandora's box of Islamic Nationalism...Its unstoppable, the Arab Spring is alive and well.

You should read History on how WWl and WWll started, the similarities are obvious to an educated mind.

The west went there because of radical/terrorist/dictator muslim violence, they are not the cause. If the middle east had been peaceful western armies would not have needed to step in.

Now you are the Bullshit Propagandist! How can anyone take you seriously?

The west went to syria because of violence and the use of chemical weapons
They went because of Gaddaffi and arab uprisings
They went when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
They went because of violence in Afghanistan.
They went because of violence in the Balkans
They went because of fighting in Lebanon.
They went because of Ottoman and arab violence
They went because of muslim piracy of trading ship
They went because of Islamic conquest and violence in the holyland......................

They went when attacked by muslim terrorist wage war on them on their own land.
Planes hijacked, ships hijacked, embassies attacked, westerners kidnapped........................by terrorist protected in the MENA

Aris, What did Kuwait have to with GW Bush? All your recanting's like a mule on a fire braying refusing to see what lies will stick.

Sorry, none of your braying has any logic historically. Fight on and kill those windmills Don Aris.

Was not a Bush thing. 14 nations backed by 17 others were involved after Kuwait was invaded and sanctioned by the UN, US was just one of them.

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

 

[aris2chat]

Russia vs. Turkey: Nuclear War 'Likely' - Russian Analyst

Russia ‘likely’ to start nuclear war with NATO over the jet
Felgenhauer said Turkey is seeking to protect a zone in northern Syria controlled by its allies, the Turkmens, while the downing of the Russian jet in the region must prompt Moscow to either accept the zone or “start a war with Turkey,” which means starting a war with NATO.

And the only way Russia could win a war against NATO is by going nuclear, Felgenhauer said.

“It is most likely that it will be war,” said Felgenhauer, as reported by Mirror. “In other words, more fights will follow when Russian planes attack Turkish aircraft in order to protect our [Russia’s] bombers. It is possible that there will be fights between the Russian and Turkish navies at sea.”

Russia’s top defense analyst also warned that Ankara will probably shut down the Bosphorus, and other NATO members will join this conflict, thus unleashing an all-out war with Russia. The Bosphorus is the only way by which Russia’s mighty Black Sea fleet can reach the Mediterranean.

“And in such a conflict Russia has very little chance unless it uses its nuclear weapons,” Felgenhauer warned.

Media (max-width: 600px) { #admobil { display:none; } #adpost { display:inline-block; width:290px !important; height:235px; } } Media (min-width: 600px) { #admobil { display:none; } #adpost { display:inline-block; width:336px; height:280px; } }
But a nuclear war involving NATO and Russia “would probably spell, if not the end of humanity, the end of any possibility of a comfortable future for humanity,” as reported by ValueWalk, citing Press TV’s interview with Don DeBar, U.S. political analyst.

Most alarming NATO-Russian military incident in 50 years
Turkey downing the Russian jet on Tuesday is the most alarming military indecent between a NATO member country and Russia in half a century. And with Vladimir Putin warning of “serious consequences,” U.S. President Barack Obama is already trying to avoid escalation.

After an emergency meeting in Washington, French President Francois Hollande and Obama issued a joint statement, in which they called on Putin to avoid escalation, according to RT.

“Turkey, like every country, has the right to defend its territory and its airspace,” Obama said, defending the Turkish side of the conflict but admitting that he had no details on the incident yet.

Putin called the bombing of the Russian warplane a “crime” and stressed that Moscow will never tolerate it. The Russian President added that the Su-24 plane crash in Syria goes beyond normal struggle against terrorism, and it is “a stab in Russia’s back delivered by terrorist accomplices,” as reported by ITAR-TASS.

“I understand each country has its own regional interests, and we have always respected that. But we shall never tolerate crimes like today’s one,” the Russian leader said on Tuesday following a meeting with King of Jordan Abdullah II.

Is Obama capable of leading NATO into nuclear war with Russia?
“Today’s loss is linked with a stab in our back delivered by terrorism accomplices. I can’t characterize otherwise what has happened today,” Putin said, accusing Turkey of financing and protecting ISIS.

On Oct. 31, ISIS claimed responsibility for shooting down a Russian passenger plane in Egypt. A total of 224 people, including 17 children, were killed in the plane crash.

Moreover, ISIS described how it bombed the Russian plane over three weeks ago in the latest publication of its propaganda magazine, Dabiq, also featuring an image of what appears to be the bomb that was placed in a soft drink can.

Putin also noted that Turkey’s contacts with NATO members after the bombing of the Su-24 jet on Tuesday look like an attempt to make the Alliance serve terrorists.

The question is whether Obama is capable of leading NATO at a serious time like this one? Turkey will obviously want to feel secured and protected from Russia’s possible military response, which is why it will be expecting the U.S. to have its back.

But has Obama enough authority to prevent Turkey and Russia from escalating the conflict into a nuclear war? And if he fails to do so, is he capable of leading NATO into a nuclear war with Russia?
Like our Facebook page for breaking news updates and leaks.






Tags: jet Russia Syria

Written by Polina Tikhonova
Polina Tikhonova is a writer, journalist and a certified translator. Over the past 7 years, she has worked for a wide variety of top European, American, Russian, and Ukrainian media outlets. Polina holds a Master's Degree in English Philology from the University of Oxford and a Bachelor's Degree in Journalism from the Saint Petersburg State University. Her articles and news reports have been published by many newspapers, magazines, journals, blogs and online media sources across the globe. Polina is fluent in English, German, Ukrainian and Russian.

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Press TV, well there you have it, the definitive source of all truths

 

[aris2chat]

The west went there because of radical/terrorist/dictator muslim violence, they are not the cause. If the middle east had been peaceful western armies would not have needed to step in.

Now you are the Bullshit Propagandist! How can anyone take you seriously?

The west went to syria because of violence and the use of chemical weapons
They went because of Gaddaffi and arab uprisings
They went when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
They went because of violence in Afghanistan.
They went because of violence in the Balkans
They went because of fighting in Lebanon.
They went because of Ottoman and arab violence
They went because of muslim piracy of trading ship
They went because of Islamic conquest and violence in the holyland......................

They went when attacked by muslim terrorist wage war on them on their own land.
Planes hijacked, ships hijacked, embassies attacked, westerners kidnapped........................by terrorist protected in the MENA

Aris, What did Kuwait have to with GW Bush? All your recanting's like a mule on a fire braying refusing to see what lies will stick.

Sorry, none of your braying has any logic historically. Fight on and kill those windmills Don Aris.

Was not a Bush thing. 14 nations backed by 17 others were involved after Kuwait was invaded and sanctioned by the UN, US was just one of them.

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

LOL This is your fall back, labeling me because of friendships or calling me anti-islamic? You don't call me Fatah though I had neighbors, school mates and frends among them or
حزب الوطنيين الأحرار , حزب السلام اللبناني , حركة التجدد الدمقراطي , حزب الاتحاد السرياني
yet I have good friends in their leadership then and now. I have friends among March 8 as well as Independent.

Kataeb is far from the only christian political party in the country. My father served as adviser to three different Presidents and they were not Kataeb.
Either you don't understand the political system or you are just looking for someone to blame because of the actions by those on orders of Syria that is stuck in your head. Even that you are under some false understanding of the facts. its not like it has not been explained many times and plenty of links and documents have been presented. You have a burr in your saddle and looking for anyone to be angry at.

 

[aris2chat]

The west went there because of radical/terrorist/dictator muslim violence, they are not the cause. If the middle east had been peaceful western armies would not have needed to step in.

Now you are the Bullshit Propagandist! How can anyone take you seriously?

The west went to syria because of violence and the use of chemical weapons
They went because of Gaddaffi and arab uprisings
They went when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
They went because of violence in Afghanistan.
They went because of violence in the Balkans
They went because of fighting in Lebanon.
They went because of Ottoman and arab violence
They went because of muslim piracy of trading ship
They went because of Islamic conquest and violence in the holyland......................

They went when attacked by muslim terrorist wage war on them on their own land.
Planes hijacked, ships hijacked, embassies attacked, westerners kidnapped........................by terrorist protected in the MENA

Aris, What did Kuwait have to with GW Bush? All your recanting's like a mule on a fire braying refusing to see what lies will stick.

Sorry, none of your braying has any logic historically. Fight on and kill those windmills Don Aris.

Was not a Bush thing. 14 nations backed by 17 others were involved after Kuwait was invaded and sanctioned by the UN, US was just one of them.

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

 

[pbel]

Now you are the Bullshit Propagandist! How can anyone take you seriously?

The west went to syria because of violence and the use of chemical weapons
They went because of Gaddaffi and arab uprisings
They went when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
They went because of violence in Afghanistan.
They went because of violence in the Balkans
They went because of fighting in Lebanon.
They went because of Ottoman and arab violence
They went because of muslim piracy of trading ship
They went because of Islamic conquest and violence in the holyland......................

They went when attacked by muslim terrorist wage war on them on their own land.
Planes hijacked, ships hijacked, embassies attacked, westerners kidnapped........................by terrorist protected in the MENA

Aris, What did Kuwait have to with GW Bush? All your recanting's like a mule on a fire braying refusing to see what lies will stick.

Sorry, none of your braying has any logic historically. Fight on and kill those windmills Don Aris.

Was not a Bush thing. 14 nations backed by 17 others were involved after Kuwait was invaded and sanctioned by the UN, US was just one of them.

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

 

[aris2chat]

The west went to syria because of violence and the use of chemical weapons
They went because of Gaddaffi and arab uprisings
They went when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
They went because of violence in Afghanistan.
They went because of violence in the Balkans
They went because of fighting in Lebanon.
They went because of Ottoman and arab violence
They went because of muslim piracy of trading ship
They went because of Islamic conquest and violence in the holyland......................

They went when attacked by muslim terrorist wage war on them on their own land.
Planes hijacked, ships hijacked, embassies attacked, westerners kidnapped........................by terrorist protected in the MENA

Aris, What did Kuwait have to with GW Bush? All your recanting's like a mule on a fire braying refusing to see what lies will stick.

Sorry, none of your braying has any logic historically. Fight on and kill those windmills Don Aris.

Was not a Bush thing. 14 nations backed by 17 others were involved after Kuwait was invaded and sanctioned by the UN, US was just one of them.

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.

If you are going to label people, you should understand what that label is really based on.

 

[pbel]

Aris, What did Kuwait have to with GW Bush? All your recanting's like a mule on a fire braying refusing to see what lies will stick.

Sorry, none of your braying has any logic historically. Fight on and kill those windmills Don Aris.

Was not a Bush thing. 14 nations backed by 17 others were involved after Kuwait was invaded and sanctioned by the UN, US was just one of them.

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

 

[Phoenall]

Was not a Bush thing. 14 nations backed by 17 others were involved after Kuwait was invaded and sanctioned by the UN, US was just one of them.

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

 

[P F Tinmore]

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

OK, but if the Palestinians were still in Palestine there would have been no problems.

 

[Phoenall]

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

OK, but if the Palestinians were still in Palestine there would have been no problems.

Then why don't they move to arab muslim Palestine then ? I forgot the other arab muslim Palestinians kicked them out because they wanted to make it into a caliphate and have Arafat as their leader.

 

[pbel]

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

That is your sick insane asylum laced philosophy and Israel's attitude and why Palestinians commit stabbings in desperation to gain their freedom: you think that the Sabra and Shatila massacre in which the killing of between 762 and 3,500 civilians is a normal and acceptable way to describe that event, a widespread massacre was carried out by the militia virtually under the eyes of their Israeli allies

Remember that as more innocents on both sides are murdered. Your words help create this travesty for both sides.

 

[Phoenall]

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

That is your sick insane asylum laced philosophy and Israel's attitude and why Palestinians commit stabbings in desperation to gain their freedom: you think that the Sabra and Shatila massacre in which the killing of between 762 and 3,500 civilians is a normal and acceptable way to describe that event, a widespread massacre was carried out by the militia virtually under the eyes of their Israeli allies

Remember that as more innocents on both sides are murdered. Your words help create this travesty for both sides.

So you are denying reported history and UN documents now because they show your fellow muslims to be psychopaths that are easily cowed by beating them at their own game. You know you are outclassed and beaten by your use of disinformation, trolling and deflection. Try looking at reality for a change, you might be shocked at who is the cause of the problems

 

[aris2chat]

You are a dense Christian Phalange who simply hates Islam because you are now a refugee in Israel. I understand your anger and hate.

The West has no right to exploit Islamic nations with a form of Neo-Colonialism...The people want no Western influence and certainly not the land-theft that Israel does even though her allies condemn this travesty.

As an aside, your talk of Kuwait rather dealing with Saddam and THE GW Bush that invaded Iraq with proven lies shows how desperate you are to distort the facts.

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

He refuses to understand that Hobeika was following both Syrian orders and taking his own vengeance for is family that were massacred by palestinians. Orders after the funeral were to round up palestinian fighters. It was a gun battle, palestinians were well armed with artillery and entrenched in the camps and in the Gaza hospital. Many of the dead were not killed by the Kataeb shabab that Hobeika picked but by traps set up by the palestinians.
Tens of thousands of palestinians in the camps and only 200 of Hobeika's men went in because no army was allowed to enter the camps.
Less than 500 palestinians dead by the official Lebanese account, later accounts by palestinians estimated 700 and was over the years inflated to several thousand, close to 1600 palestinian fighters were processed at the stadium and shipped out to join Arafat.
The only vengence/massacre was carried out near the hospital by Mashaalani and those under his command, he had gave his 25 men drugs before hand and those men had all lost family in massacres by palestinians.
Hobeika had also been part of the assassination of Bashir and was, till they killed him, under the protection of Syria. Even when everyone found out the part he play in facilitating the assassination and the later escape of Shartouni (SNSP). Hobeika and Mashaalani knew that after the heroine and cocaine that those men would be numb to any revulsion of killing and they would be sharper and last long in combat. The fact that at the time it as believed to be the palestinians that had assassinated Bashir also enraged the men. It was some time later that Hobeika's involvement came to light.



It was a bloody mess and not all the victims could be identified. Eventually time became of the essence and the bodies had to be buried because of rodents and bugs. The fear was of an epidemic and the smell was becoming overwhelming. In the heat the bodies were decaying. There was no refrigeration or morgues that could be used and it was traditional to have no autopsy and to bury the dead within a day. Photos, prints when other form of recognition could not be used, location, notes on our observation were done. Press was also let in as small groups.
Tunnels and cashes of arms and stock piles if supplies were also found the being dug up with heavy machines.

I knew Hobeika, did not particularly like him but was fond of his wife. They did not live far from us. I was friends with Bashir, his wife and his even mistress. I knew his daughter that was killed. A friend help raise his other two children after his death. So what? I knew Dany Chamoun and his family as well. Doesn't make me a party member of either party. Our social circles often crossed. My father often invited political, military, business and medical leaders and those at the top of the career. We have had every president since Chamoun to Sarkis in our home when I was there. We have also know every one since. I've know or met most of the in parliament, and some that are there now.

The idea that I was a member of any party is ridiculous, mostly because I never voted in Lebanon. Part of the reason, beside my ability to get through most road blocks and enter most place, that I was asked to be a liaison was that I had no affiliation and knew members in most groups.
One of the reason I was in the camps in the aftermath was my familiarity of the camps and many of the people there. I had "no skin in the game" so it was know my report would be unbias. Some of those killed had been my friends. Some of those that had been picked by Hobeika has also been my friend and some I had even gone to school with.

My father was Lebanese but my parents did not want me to be trapped in Lebanon so they never raised me to think of living my life there. That is why I always had a US passport. My brother was to be the one to carry on the family name so he had both. My mother never carried anything but a US passport. She had business in the UK and dealt with people around the world so she wanted to keep her own identity and freedom.

Sorry but pinbrain is ignorant and has a serious chip on his shoulder. He thinks I am an easy target to blame for events I had not part in and only involved after the fact to help both the palestinians and to write a report for Lebanon and the UN. My report was also forwarded to the Kahan commission. Copies were sent to a number of embassies by the Ministry.

How the makes me a fascist is only in pbel's imagination.

This has been explained to him before and he still does not want to understand.

My father would not take arms against his fellow Lebanese and I was raise to want the best for the country not artisan politics. I was not just going back and forth between militias and groups but between a number of embassies and organizations as well. Mostly I was trying to arrange ceasefires and set up meetings for talks. Hardly partisan except to the idea of peace.

Pb will no doubt always blame me and label me because of my friendship with Bashir. Bashir was not directly to blame for the 16th, he had been killed two days earlier. His death was part of he motivation but both incidents were the work of Hobeika and the syrians. Just over two years later the syrians and amal would massacre around 4000 palestinians in those same camps, and those figures would be inflated and blamed on '82 instead for propaganda purposes.

I've not been back since '83 but thanks to the internet I have stayed in touch with friends and somewhat active after Hariri's assassination and events that lead to syrian troops being removed. Does that make me a member of the Future Party? No, just concerned with the freedom and peace of Lebanon.

Forget Pbel. Not worth the aggravation. He does not care about the truth just his grudge and belief in the idea that the Kataeb, all Kataeb and christians, were intentionally involved in events of the 16th. He does not even understand what really happened there either, nor want to. I'm sure to him I will always be a fascist and a member of Kateab. That is his problem.

 

[pbel]

Where did you ever get the idea I was a refugee in Israel. Not even close. Obviously you know less than nothing about me or the situation of Lebanese in Israel.
I had family in Kuwait when Saddam invaded. Obviously you understand little of that event either.

You have gone from a poor joke to down right ridiculous.

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

He refuses to understand that Hobeika was following both Syrian orders and taking his own vengeance for is family that were massacred by palestinians. Orders after the funeral were to round up palestinian fighters. It was a gun battle, palestinians were well armed with artillery and entrenched in the camps and in the Gaza hospital. Many of the dead were not killed by the Kataeb shabab that Hobeika picked but by traps set up by the palestinians.
Tens of thousands of palestinians in the camps and only 200 of Hobeika's men went in because no army was allowed to enter the camps.
Less than 500 palestinians dead by the official Lebanese account, later accounts by palestinians estimated 700 and was over the years inflated to several thousand, close to 1600 palestinian fighters were processed at the stadium and shipped out to join Arafat.
The only vengence/massacre was carried out near the hospital by Mashaalani and those under his command, he had gave his 25 men drugs before hand and those men had all lost family in massacres by palestinians.
Hobeika had also been part of the assassination of Bashir and was, till they killed him, under the protection of Syria. Even when everyone found out the part he play in facilitating the assassination and the later escape of Shartouni (SNSP). Hobeika and Mashaalani knew that after the heroine and cocaine that those men would be numb to any revulsion of killing and they would be sharper and last long in combat. The fact that at the time it as believed to be the palestinians that had assassinated Bashir also enraged the men. It was some time later that Hobeika's involvement came to light.



It was a bloody mess and not all the victims could be identified. Eventually time became of the essence and the bodies had to be buried because of rodents and bugs. The fear was of an epidemic and the smell was becoming overwhelming. In the heat the bodies were decaying. There was no refrigeration or morgues that could be used and it was traditional to have no autopsy and to bury the dead within a day. Photos, prints when other form of recognition could not be used, location, notes on our observation were done. Press was also let in as small groups.
Tunnels and cashes of arms and stock piles if supplies were also found the being dug up with heavy machines.

I knew Hobeika, did not particularly like him but was fond of his wife. They did not live far from us. I was friends with Bashir, his wife and his even mistress. I knew his daughter that was killed. A friend help raise his other two children after his death. So what? I knew Dany Chamoun and his family as well. Doesn't make me a party member of either party. Our social circles often crossed. My father often invited political, military, business and medical leaders and those at the top of the career. We have had every president since Chamoun to Sarkis in our home when I was there. We have also know every one since. I've know or met most of the in parliament, and some that are there now.

The idea that I was a member of any party is ridiculous, mostly because I never voted in Lebanon. Part of the reason, beside my ability to get through most road blocks and enter most place, that I was asked to be a liaison was that I had no affiliation and knew members in most groups.
One of the reason I was in the camps in the aftermath was my familiarity of the camps and many of the people there. I had "no skin in the game" so it was know my report would be unbias. Some of those killed had been my friends. Some of those that had been picked by Hobeika has also been my friend and some I had even gone to school with.

My father was Lebanese but my parents did not want me to be trapped in Lebanon so they never raised me to think of living my life there. That is why I always had a US passport. My brother was to be the one to carry on the family name so he had both. My mother never carried anything but a US passport. She had business in the UK and dealt with people around the world so she wanted to keep her own identity and freedom.

Sorry but pinbrain is ignorant and has a serious chip on his shoulder. He thinks I am an easy target to blame for events I had not part in and only involved after the fact to help both the palestinians and to write a report for Lebanon and the UN. My report was also forwarded to the Kahan commission. Copies were sent to a number of embassies by the Ministry.

How the makes me a fascist is only in pbel's imagination.

This has been explained to him before and he still does not want to understand.

My father would not take arms against his fellow Lebanese and I was raise to want the best for the country not artisan politics. I was not just going back and forth between militias and groups but between a number of embassies and organizations as well. Mostly I was trying to arrange ceasefires and set up meetings for talks. Hardly partisan except to the idea of peace.

Pb will no doubt always blame me and label me because of my friendship with Bashir. Bashir was not directly to blame for the 16th, he had been killed two days earlier. His death was part of he motivation but both incidents were the work of Hobeika and the syrians. Just over two years later the syrians and amal would massacre around 4000 palestinians in those same camps, and those figures would be inflated and blamed on '82 instead for propaganda purposes.

I've not been back since '83 but thanks to the internet I have stayed in touch with friends and somewhat active after Hariri's assassination and events that lead to syrian troops being removed. Does that make me a member of the Future Party? No, just concerned with the freedom and peace of Lebanon.

Forget Pbel. Not worth the aggravation. He does not care about the truth just his grudge and belief in the idea that the Kataeb, all Kataeb and christians, were intentionally involved in events of the 16th. He does not even understand what really happened there either, nor want to. I'm sure to him I will always be a fascist and a member of Kateab. That is his problem.

Wow, quite a story...So you're not Kataeb but admit to being SLA but had close friends in both. Lots of Fascist friends that you say does not affect your politics? There's an old saying that you can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy, and that's my point here.


You hate Palestinians who were pushed out of their homeland in Palestine into Lebanon and blame them for the turmoil even though the Israelis caused the conditions.

I understand your hate, but hate fuels the conflict which destroyed your beautiful country.

Blame the Israeli Fascists not the hapless defenseless Palestinians and you will sleep better!

 

[aris2chat]

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

He refuses to understand that Hobeika was following both Syrian orders and taking his own vengeance for is family that were massacred by palestinians. Orders after the funeral were to round up palestinian fighters. It was a gun battle, palestinians were well armed with artillery and entrenched in the camps and in the Gaza hospital. Many of the dead were not killed by the Kataeb shabab that Hobeika picked but by traps set up by the palestinians.
Tens of thousands of palestinians in the camps and only 200 of Hobeika's men went in because no army was allowed to enter the camps.
Less than 500 palestinians dead by the official Lebanese account, later accounts by palestinians estimated 700 and was over the years inflated to several thousand, close to 1600 palestinian fighters were processed at the stadium and shipped out to join Arafat.
The only vengence/massacre was carried out near the hospital by Mashaalani and those under his command, he had gave his 25 men drugs before hand and those men had all lost family in massacres by palestinians.
Hobeika had also been part of the assassination of Bashir and was, till they killed him, under the protection of Syria. Even when everyone found out the part he play in facilitating the assassination and the later escape of Shartouni (SNSP). Hobeika and Mashaalani knew that after the heroine and cocaine that those men would be numb to any revulsion of killing and they would be sharper and last long in combat. The fact that at the time it as believed to be the palestinians that had assassinated Bashir also enraged the men. It was some time later that Hobeika's involvement came to light.



It was a bloody mess and not all the victims could be identified. Eventually time became of the essence and the bodies had to be buried because of rodents and bugs. The fear was of an epidemic and the smell was becoming overwhelming. In the heat the bodies were decaying. There was no refrigeration or morgues that could be used and it was traditional to have no autopsy and to bury the dead within a day. Photos, prints when other form of recognition could not be used, location, notes on our observation were done. Press was also let in as small groups.
Tunnels and cashes of arms and stock piles if supplies were also found the being dug up with heavy machines.

I knew Hobeika, did not particularly like him but was fond of his wife. They did not live far from us. I was friends with Bashir, his wife and his even mistress. I knew his daughter that was killed. A friend help raise his other two children after his death. So what? I knew Dany Chamoun and his family as well. Doesn't make me a party member of either party. Our social circles often crossed. My father often invited political, military, business and medical leaders and those at the top of the career. We have had every president since Chamoun to Sarkis in our home when I was there. We have also know every one since. I've know or met most of the in parliament, and some that are there now.

The idea that I was a member of any party is ridiculous, mostly because I never voted in Lebanon. Part of the reason, beside my ability to get through most road blocks and enter most place, that I was asked to be a liaison was that I had no affiliation and knew members in most groups.
One of the reason I was in the camps in the aftermath was my familiarity of the camps and many of the people there. I had "no skin in the game" so it was know my report would be unbias. Some of those killed had been my friends. Some of those that had been picked by Hobeika has also been my friend and some I had even gone to school with.

My father was Lebanese but my parents did not want me to be trapped in Lebanon so they never raised me to think of living my life there. That is why I always had a US passport. My brother was to be the one to carry on the family name so he had both. My mother never carried anything but a US passport. She had business in the UK and dealt with people around the world so she wanted to keep her own identity and freedom.

Sorry but pinbrain is ignorant and has a serious chip on his shoulder. He thinks I am an easy target to blame for events I had not part in and only involved after the fact to help both the palestinians and to write a report for Lebanon and the UN. My report was also forwarded to the Kahan commission. Copies were sent to a number of embassies by the Ministry.

How the makes me a fascist is only in pbel's imagination.

This has been explained to him before and he still does not want to understand.

My father would not take arms against his fellow Lebanese and I was raise to want the best for the country not artisan politics. I was not just going back and forth between militias and groups but between a number of embassies and organizations as well. Mostly I was trying to arrange ceasefires and set up meetings for talks. Hardly partisan except to the idea of peace.

Pb will no doubt always blame me and label me because of my friendship with Bashir. Bashir was not directly to blame for the 16th, he had been killed two days earlier. His death was part of he motivation but both incidents were the work of Hobeika and the syrians. Just over two years later the syrians and amal would massacre around 4000 palestinians in those same camps, and those figures would be inflated and blamed on '82 instead for propaganda purposes.

I've not been back since '83 but thanks to the internet I have stayed in touch with friends and somewhat active after Hariri's assassination and events that lead to syrian troops being removed. Does that make me a member of the Future Party? No, just concerned with the freedom and peace of Lebanon.

Forget Pbel. Not worth the aggravation. He does not care about the truth just his grudge and belief in the idea that the Kataeb, all Kataeb and christians, were intentionally involved in events of the 16th. He does not even understand what really happened there either, nor want to. I'm sure to him I will always be a fascist and a member of Kateab. That is his problem.

Wow, quite a story...So you're not Kataeb but admit to being SLA but had close friends in both. Lots of Fascist friends that you say does not affect your politics? There's an old saying that you can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy, and that's my point here.


You hate Palestinians who were pushed out of their homeland in Palestine into Lebanon and blame them for the turmoil even though the Israelis caused the conditions.

I understand your hate, but hate fuels the conflict which destroyed your beautiful country.

Blame the Israeli Fascists not the hapless defenseless Palestinians and you will sleep better!

SLA were forced to Israel and have created a life for themselves but I'm sure most would someday want to return to Lebanon.
...........and I'm not SLA or affiliated with any groups, in the past or now.
I used to work to help the palestinians and came to know the camps and many of the palestinians.

Anyone that had seen their homeland decimated and lost so many friends to a civil war would be upset. Palestinians in Lebanon were never helpless, I don't know why you would ever think they were. They were well armed and had a number of training camps around the country. Hate is the reason I worked to bring about talks and ceasefires, no matter how temporary. My intent was always for peace.

You really don't know me and seem unwilling to even try to understand anything said. You are the one intent on feeding hate and trying to incite. You are the one obsessed with disinformation and laying blame. There is blame enough to go around, but eventually you have to put hate away and look to the future. Angry at the massacres, yes. Angry at being targeted and my car destroyed, yes. Angry that it was not save for me to return, yes. Angry at all palestinians or any groups in total, no. That is your hang up, not mine.

Everyone you don't like are fascists? You won't understand till you let go of the pigeon holing of people and groups. Israelis had been repeatedly attacked from the Lebanese border. Lebanese had been not just in a civil war but being attacked by palestinians within the country. Why should either have had to put up with the violence by palestinians?

......and you think everyone else is fascist?

History Upside Down: The Roots of Palestinian Fascism and the Myth of Israeli Aggression First Edition Edition by David Meir-Levi

Go stick you head and in a toilet and flush a few times.

 

[aris2chat]

No political party, no militia and my military service was with the USAF. The only place I voted was in US elections and not part of any political party here either.

 

[Phoenall]

Keep offering poor explanations for your whining. after all, what can a fascist phalange associate offer?

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

He refuses to understand that Hobeika was following both Syrian orders and taking his own vengeance for is family that were massacred by palestinians. Orders after the funeral were to round up palestinian fighters. It was a gun battle, palestinians were well armed with artillery and entrenched in the camps and in the Gaza hospital. Many of the dead were not killed by the Kataeb shabab that Hobeika picked but by traps set up by the palestinians.
Tens of thousands of palestinians in the camps and only 200 of Hobeika's men went in because no army was allowed to enter the camps.
Less than 500 palestinians dead by the official Lebanese account, later accounts by palestinians estimated 700 and was over the years inflated to several thousand, close to 1600 palestinian fighters were processed at the stadium and shipped out to join Arafat.
The only vengence/massacre was carried out near the hospital by Mashaalani and those under his command, he had gave his 25 men drugs before hand and those men had all lost family in massacres by palestinians.
Hobeika had also been part of the assassination of Bashir and was, till they killed him, under the protection of Syria. Even when everyone found out the part he play in facilitating the assassination and the later escape of Shartouni (SNSP). Hobeika and Mashaalani knew that after the heroine and cocaine that those men would be numb to any revulsion of killing and they would be sharper and last long in combat. The fact that at the time it as believed to be the palestinians that had assassinated Bashir also enraged the men. It was some time later that Hobeika's involvement came to light.



It was a bloody mess and not all the victims could be identified. Eventually time became of the essence and the bodies had to be buried because of rodents and bugs. The fear was of an epidemic and the smell was becoming overwhelming. In the heat the bodies were decaying. There was no refrigeration or morgues that could be used and it was traditional to have no autopsy and to bury the dead within a day. Photos, prints when other form of recognition could not be used, location, notes on our observation were done. Press was also let in as small groups.
Tunnels and cashes of arms and stock piles if supplies were also found the being dug up with heavy machines.

I knew Hobeika, did not particularly like him but was fond of his wife. They did not live far from us. I was friends with Bashir, his wife and his even mistress. I knew his daughter that was killed. A friend help raise his other two children after his death. So what? I knew Dany Chamoun and his family as well. Doesn't make me a party member of either party. Our social circles often crossed. My father often invited political, military, business and medical leaders and those at the top of the career. We have had every president since Chamoun to Sarkis in our home when I was there. We have also know every one since. I've know or met most of the in parliament, and some that are there now.

The idea that I was a member of any party is ridiculous, mostly because I never voted in Lebanon. Part of the reason, beside my ability to get through most road blocks and enter most place, that I was asked to be a liaison was that I had no affiliation and knew members in most groups.
One of the reason I was in the camps in the aftermath was my familiarity of the camps and many of the people there. I had "no skin in the game" so it was know my report would be unbias. Some of those killed had been my friends. Some of those that had been picked by Hobeika has also been my friend and some I had even gone to school with.

My father was Lebanese but my parents did not want me to be trapped in Lebanon so they never raised me to think of living my life there. That is why I always had a US passport. My brother was to be the one to carry on the family name so he had both. My mother never carried anything but a US passport. She had business in the UK and dealt with people around the world so she wanted to keep her own identity and freedom.

Sorry but pinbrain is ignorant and has a serious chip on his shoulder. He thinks I am an easy target to blame for events I had not part in and only involved after the fact to help both the palestinians and to write a report for Lebanon and the UN. My report was also forwarded to the Kahan commission. Copies were sent to a number of embassies by the Ministry.

How the makes me a fascist is only in pbel's imagination.

This has been explained to him before and he still does not want to understand.

My father would not take arms against his fellow Lebanese and I was raise to want the best for the country not artisan politics. I was not just going back and forth between militias and groups but between a number of embassies and organizations as well. Mostly I was trying to arrange ceasefires and set up meetings for talks. Hardly partisan except to the idea of peace.

Pb will no doubt always blame me and label me because of my friendship with Bashir. Bashir was not directly to blame for the 16th, he had been killed two days earlier. His death was part of he motivation but both incidents were the work of Hobeika and the syrians. Just over two years later the syrians and amal would massacre around 4000 palestinians in those same camps, and those figures would be inflated and blamed on '82 instead for propaganda purposes.

I've not been back since '83 but thanks to the internet I have stayed in touch with friends and somewhat active after Hariri's assassination and events that lead to syrian troops being removed. Does that make me a member of the Future Party? No, just concerned with the freedom and peace of Lebanon.

Forget Pbel. Not worth the aggravation. He does not care about the truth just his grudge and belief in the idea that the Kataeb, all Kataeb and christians, were intentionally involved in events of the 16th. He does not even understand what really happened there either, nor want to. I'm sure to him I will always be a fascist and a member of Kateab. That is his problem.

Wow, quite a story...So you're not Kataeb but admit to being SLA but had close friends in both. Lots of Fascist friends that you say does not affect your politics? There's an old saying that you can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy, and that's my point here.


You hate Palestinians who were pushed out of their homeland in Palestine into Lebanon and blame them for the turmoil even though the Israelis caused the conditions.

I understand your hate, but hate fuels the conflict which destroyed your beautiful country.

Blame the Israeli Fascists not the hapless defenseless Palestinians and you will sleep better!

They had no homeland in palestine until Jordan kicked them out and they became wanderers again, so they jumped on the chance of war with Israel. If they wanted a homeland so badly why didn't they fight for one between 1948 and 1967 when they were occupied by Jordan

 

[pbel]

No political party, no militia and my military service was with the USAF. The only place I voted was in US elections and not part of any political party here either.

Hey, thanks for your biography, an American Phalanges serving Israel...Maybe Mr. Trump will have you register?

 

[docmauser1]

No political party, no militia and my military service was with the USAF. The only place I voted was in US elections and not part of any political party here either.

Hey, thanks for your biography, an American Phalanges serving Israel...Maybe Mr. Trump will have you register?

Oh!! Pagin'-pagin'-pagin' our dear leader, mr/ms/mrs Coyote, the all-seein' "off-topic" jedai kbd knight!! Waah!

 

[pbel]

Not that is matters, but are you under the impression the Lebanese in Israel are Kataeb? They aren't, they were SLA.
Where did you get the idea I was refugee in Israel? I've been to Jerusalem once to take my grandmother via Jordan to see the holy sites. Even with an american passport I could not have flown in.
Because I was among the first into the camps you assume I was kataeb? I was there to help identify dead and report on the cause of death. That report went to the UN, the Ministry and forwarded to the Kahan commision.
You are funny, you get an idea stuck in your head and it somehow becomes absolute. You love the labels. I got one for you, a bird brained bigot. Far more fitting that calling me a fascist.

Just so you know, kataeb is secular and it was intended to protect the rights of all Lebanese not just this or that sect or religion. If you want to think of it as fascists, most political parties including the baath were organized on the model of brown shirts after the Berlin Olympics. It was not all a political model but more of an organizational one. After the fall of the Ottoman, youth, political and even sports organizations needed something as a blue print. If you want it had more in common to the ancient roman organization, hence the name phalanx.
.

Like a sick gadfly who protests too much about your Fascist involvements in killing innocent Palestinians in Lebanon, tell us more about your role? Your previous babbling was confusing.

Were you a Brown Shirt?

There was no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in Lebanon, Arafat saw to that when he unleashed the hordes on the Lebanese Christians. They harvested what they sowed and their enablers still whinge about the outcome

He refuses to understand that Hobeika was following both Syrian orders and taking his own vengeance for is family that were massacred by palestinians. Orders after the funeral were to round up palestinian fighters. It was a gun battle, palestinians were well armed with artillery and entrenched in the camps and in the Gaza hospital. Many of the dead were not killed by the Kataeb shabab that Hobeika picked but by traps set up by the palestinians.
Tens of thousands of palestinians in the camps and only 200 of Hobeika's men went in because no army was allowed to enter the camps.
Less than 500 palestinians dead by the official Lebanese account, later accounts by palestinians estimated 700 and was over the years inflated to several thousand, close to 1600 palestinian fighters were processed at the stadium and shipped out to join Arafat.
The only vengence/massacre was carried out near the hospital by Mashaalani and those under his command, he had gave his 25 men drugs before hand and those men had all lost family in massacres by palestinians.
Hobeika had also been part of the assassination of Bashir and was, till they killed him, under the protection of Syria. Even when everyone found out the part he play in facilitating the assassination and the later escape of Shartouni (SNSP). Hobeika and Mashaalani knew that after the heroine and cocaine that those men would be numb to any revulsion of killing and they would be sharper and last long in combat. The fact that at the time it as believed to be the palestinians that had assassinated Bashir also enraged the men. It was some time later that Hobeika's involvement came to light.



It was a bloody mess and not all the victims could be identified. Eventually time became of the essence and the bodies had to be buried because of rodents and bugs. The fear was of an epidemic and the smell was becoming overwhelming. In the heat the bodies were decaying. There was no refrigeration or morgues that could be used and it was traditional to have no autopsy and to bury the dead within a day. Photos, prints when other form of recognition could not be used, location, notes on our observation were done. Press was also let in as small groups.
Tunnels and cashes of arms and stock piles if supplies were also found the being dug up with heavy machines.

I knew Hobeika, did not particularly like him but was fond of his wife. They did not live far from us. I was friends with Bashir, his wife and his even mistress. I knew his daughter that was killed. A friend help raise his other two children after his death. So what? I knew Dany Chamoun and his family as well. Doesn't make me a party member of either party. Our social circles often crossed. My father often invited political, military, business and medical leaders and those at the top of the career. We have had every president since Chamoun to Sarkis in our home when I was there. We have also know every one since. I've know or met most of the in parliament, and some that are there now.

The idea that I was a member of any party is ridiculous, mostly because I never voted in Lebanon. Part of the reason, beside my ability to get through most road blocks and enter most place, that I was asked to be a liaison was that I had no affiliation and knew members in most groups.
One of the reason I was in the camps in the aftermath was my familiarity of the camps and many of the people there. I had "no skin in the game" so it was know my report would be unbias. Some of those killed had been my friends. Some of those that had been picked by Hobeika has also been my friend and some I had even gone to school with.

My father was Lebanese but my parents did not want me to be trapped in Lebanon so they never raised me to think of living my life there. That is why I always had a US passport. My brother was to be the one to carry on the family name so he had both. My mother never carried anything but a US passport. She had business in the UK and dealt with people around the world so she wanted to keep her own identity and freedom.

Sorry but pinbrain is ignorant and has a serious chip on his shoulder. He thinks I am an easy target to blame for events I had not part in and only involved after the fact to help both the palestinians and to write a report for Lebanon and the UN. My report was also forwarded to the Kahan commission. Copies were sent to a number of embassies by the Ministry.

How the makes me a fascist is only in pbel's imagination.

This has been explained to him before and he still does not want to understand.

My father would not take arms against his fellow Lebanese and I was raise to want the best for the country not artisan politics. I was not just going back and forth between militias and groups but between a number of embassies and organizations as well. Mostly I was trying to arrange ceasefires and set up meetings for talks. Hardly partisan except to the idea of peace.

Pb will no doubt always blame me and label me because of my friendship with Bashir. Bashir was not directly to blame for the 16th, he had been killed two days earlier. His death was part of he motivation but both incidents were the work of Hobeika and the syrians. Just over two years later the syrians and amal would massacre around 4000 palestinians in those same camps, and those figures would be inflated and blamed on '82 instead for propaganda purposes.

I've not been back since '83 but thanks to the internet I have stayed in touch with friends and somewhat active after Hariri's assassination and events that lead to syrian troops being removed. Does that make me a member of the Future Party? No, just concerned with the freedom and peace of Lebanon.

Forget Pbel. Not worth the aggravation. He does not care about the truth just his grudge and belief in the idea that the Kataeb, all Kataeb and christians, were intentionally involved in events of the 16th. He does not even understand what really happened there either, nor want to. I'm sure to him I will always be a fascist and a member of Kateab. That is his problem.

Wow, quite a story...So you're not Kataeb but admit to being SLA but had close friends in both. Lots of Fascist friends that you say does not affect your politics? There's an old saying that you can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy, and that's my point here.


You hate Palestinians who were pushed out of their homeland in Palestine into Lebanon and blame them for the turmoil even though the Israelis caused the conditions.

I understand your hate, but hate fuels the conflict which destroyed your beautiful country.

Blame the Israeli Fascists not the hapless defenseless Palestinians and you will sleep better!

They had no homeland in palestine until Jordan kicked them out and they became wanderers again, so they jumped on the chance of war with Israel. If they wanted a homeland so badly why didn't they fight for one between 1948 and 1967 when they were occupied by Jordan

Its always fun reading your insane asylum posts first thing in the morning...It makes me realize that your lies are Israel's lies...

No political party, no militia and my military service was with the USAF. The only place I voted was in US elections and not part of any political party here either.

Hey, thanks for your biography, an American Phalanges serving Israel...Maybe Mr. Trump will have you register?

Oh!! Pagin'-pagin'-pagin' our dear leader, mr/ms/mrs Coyote, the all-seein' "off-topic" jedai kbd knight!! Waah!

The muslims have NEVER agreed to a divided land.

They want one land, all of it, as palestinian land.
and lots if dead jews

The muslims have NEVER agreed to a divided land.

They want one land, all of it, as palestinian land.
and lots if dead jews

The Arab League has offered a comprehensive peace to the 67 Armistice lines more than once, but you knew that, why do ZioNuts always mislead?

Because they are demanding borders that they have never recognized, No Israelis in E. Jerusalem where their most religious sites are. refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish State while demanding they be recognized as a Palestinian State and " demanding Right of Return" which would eventually destroy Israel from within and annex it to the Palestinian State. Why are Pro Palestinians such liars?

you add too many diversions...The truth of the matter is East Jerusalem, a piece of rock. It has been Arab for fourteen hundred years!

Build a new fabulous Jewish Temple in West Jerusalem and end this war!