Civilians vs Combatents

montelatici, et al,

Yes, Article 22 does say that. But Article 22 was (literally) written by the Allied Powers in 1919 (nearly a century ago). And a century ago, the Allied Powers were involved in the Great War (WWI). Emerging out of that Great War were the Principle Allied Powers and the many new countries that were created.
Remember that 1949 Geneva Conventions (all) represent a significant piece to the international law and, establishes Rules of Conduct for parties engaged in armed conflict. The norms of humanitarian law require that violent acts be consonant with fundamental human rights. Two principles underlie the law:

√ First, “all peoples have a right to self-determination and ... a right to engage in revolution”; and

√ Second, “international law ... limits the permissibility of armed revolution and participation of individuals in revolutionary social violence.”

And it is this "second" part where we start to split apart. Wars/Conflicts (AIC/NAIC) of these general types come in several varieties containing profile characteristics:

(1) Struggles of peoples fighting a foreign invader or occupant;

(2) Those that have evolved within the UN and identified as colonial entities and non-self-governing institutions and/or racist regimes involved in an armed struggles aimed at resisting the imposition of governance;

(3) Dissident movements which take up arms to overthrow the government and the social order it stands for. Their members may consider themselves as a “liberation movement” waging a “war of national liberation” against a regime or government which masks or represents “alien domination;”

(4) Armed Struggle of dissident movements representing a component people which aims at seceding and creating a new State on part of the territory of the existing one.
People that are being colonized by people from another continent, sanctioned and promoted by a foreign imperial colonial power, are not required to cooperate and welcome their dispossession.

No allied power had the right to undertake the invasion or colonization by non-inhabitants of the territory relinquished by the Central Powers. This was clearly stated in the Covenant of the League of Nations Article 22 to wit:

"ARTICLE 22.
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant."

Watching you do the monkey see no evil, hear no evil thing is embarrassing when the legal point is clear.

The Covenant made it clear that the British *who signed the Covenant" were not permitted to harm the inhabitants by implementing a colonial project which would dispossess the native inhabitants.

Palestine's status as a non-self governing territory is addressed in separate UN resolutions and acts, specifically. As you well know.
(COMMENT)

First, the easy one: There is no non-self-governing territory (NSGT) anywhere in the Middle East. The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples (also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24), the United Nations entity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization, was established in 1961 by the General Assembly with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of the Declaration (General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960). The official UN NSGTs List is at the
Non-Self-Governing Territories List. Palestine IS NOT a NSGT,

You haven't made a legal point yet. Article 22 was written by the Applied Powers and for the use by the Allied Powers. It is not for the Arab Palestinians to determine what was in the best interest and well-being and development of such peoples. In fact, if you compare the Arab League to the State of Israel for composite statistics of life expectancy, education, and income per capita indicators, which are used to rank countries into four tiers of human development, you will find you will find that Israel (The Jewish State) is much farther along.

The occupied Palestinian territories (or the Palestinians in general) have not yet demonstrated that they were "able to stand alone" [Article 22(4)]; as evidenced by the amount of donor contributions.

Most Respectfully,
R
This is not a complete list. The United Nations and Decolonization - Committee of 24 - Non-Self-Governing Territories

Tibet, Kashmir, and Palestine are not listed. Just a few off the top of my head.
 
Rocco,

The colonization of Palestine is declared in specific UN Resolutions:

Resolution 3092

4. Calls upon Israel to desist immediately from the annexation and colonization of the Arab territories occupied by it since 1967, the establishment of settlements and the transfer of population to, from or within those territories, and from all the other practices referred to in paragraph 3 above;


UN General Assembly Resolution 3092 (December 1973) | Jewish Virtual Library

Resolution 3025

8. Reaffirms further that Israel's policy of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories is a flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and of the relevant United Nations resolutions, and urges all States to refrain from any action which Israel will exploit in carrying out its policy of colonizing the occupied territories;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3525 (December 1975) | Jewish Virtual Library

And Resolution 34/44 where Palestine is associated directly with Resolution 1514, that you claimed does not refer to Palestine.

Reaffirming its faith in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, containing the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, and the importance of its implementation,............Indignant at the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia and South Africa's attempts to dismember its territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority régimes in Zimbabwe and South Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of its inalienable national rights,

UN General Assembly Resolution 34/44 (November 1979) | Jewish Virtual Library
 
Could you imagine if soldiers who killed civilians (including dropping bombs on civilians) were charged with murder how the rate of recruitment for the military would drastically reduce.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, you have some crazy answer for everything.

This is not a complete list. The United Nations and Decolonization - Committee of 24 - Non-Self-Governing Territories

Tibet, Kashmir, and Palestine are not listed. Just a few off the top of my head.
(COMMENT)

Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.

Committee of 24
2016 Session
Documents


Press Releases

The list was updated in the Session beginning on 25 February 2016:

On 25 Feb 16:

Rafael Darío Ramírez Carreño (Venezuela), who was elected Chair of the Special Committee by acclamation, said decolonization had been one of the most important tasks in the history of the United Nations and had become one of its main symbols. However, the persistence of colonial situations around the world undoubtedly represented a blatant violation of fundamental rights, contradicting the principles and purposes of the United Nations Charter, and a “stigma in the conscience of the world”. Half a century after the adoption of the decolonization Declaration, 17 cases of colonialism had not been resolved, he noted.

People's Republic of China (PRC) incorporated Tibet (Bod) in 1950; a Provincial Government that is autonomous. It is not a NSGT. While there are three General Assembly Resolutions on the Question of Tibet, the fact remains that the Resolution were non-binding and under Customary Law, there was no international enforcement. The incorporation of Tibet into the PRC stands. The doctrine of binding precedent (historical enforcement record) and stare decisis ("to stand by that which was previously decided") the 1950's decision of incorporation and annexation is just as valid and gone unchallenged as the 1950 Jordanian Annexation of the West Bank that went unchallenged, or the annexation of the Crimea by the Russian Federation in 2014.

• Kashmir is an International Territorial Dispute; to be settled by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered; A/RES25/2625. It is not a NSGT; it is a disputed territory under a mutual ceasefire adopted by India and Pakistan in 2003.

• Palestine is a "state" that declared independence in 1988. It is not an NSGT.

Now I know that you disagree, but that is the way it is in the reality of the concrete world.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Tuatara, et al,

That is exactly why the HoAP want the world to accept that the Palestinians are exempt from Law of Armed Conflict, the Customary IHL and the Hague Regulation/Geneva Conventions.

Could you imagine if soldiers who killed civilians (including dropping bombs on civilians) were charged with murder how the rate of recruitment for the military would drastically reduce.
(COMMENT)

For NIACs/IACs there is a general rule that prohibits the Palestinian policy of “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” by ignoring rules:
  • 23.Location of Military Objectives outside Densely Populated Areas
  • 24.Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
But you have to remember that this is a matter of selective enforcement.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
montelatici, et al,

Oh yeah...

Rocco,

The colonization of Palestine is declared in specific UN Resolutions:

Resolution 3092

4. Calls upon Israel to desist immediately from the annexation and colonization of the Arab territories occupied by it since 1967, the establishment of settlements and the transfer of population to, from or within those territories, and from all the other practices referred to in paragraph 3 above;


UN General Assembly Resolution 3092 (December 1973) | Jewish Virtual Library

Resolution 3025

8. Reaffirms further that Israel's policy of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories is a flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and of the relevant United Nations resolutions, and urges all States to refrain from any action which Israel will exploit in carrying out its policy of colonizing the occupied territories;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3525 (December 1975) | Jewish Virtual Library

And Resolution 34/44 where Palestine is associated directly with Resolution 1514, that you claimed does not refer to Palestine.

Reaffirming its faith in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, containing the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, and the importance of its implementation,............Indignant at the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia and South Africa's attempts to dismember its territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority régimes in Zimbabwe and South Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of its inalienable national rights,

UN General Assembly Resolution 34/44 (November 1979) | Jewish Virtual Library
(QUESTION)

Can you help me out here???

  • Which one of these UN Resolutions are "binding?"
  • What date did they go into force?
  • Which ones are compatible with the actual Customary Law in which it is practiced?

Many Thanks,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, you have some crazy answer for everything.

This is not a complete list. The United Nations and Decolonization - Committee of 24 - Non-Self-Governing Territories

Tibet, Kashmir, and Palestine are not listed. Just a few off the top of my head.
(COMMENT)

Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.

Committee of 24
2016 Session
Documents


Press Releases

The list was updated in the Session beginning on 25 February 2016:

On 25 Feb 16:

Rafael Darío Ramírez Carreño (Venezuela), who was elected Chair of the Special Committee by acclamation, said decolonization had been one of the most important tasks in the history of the United Nations and had become one of its main symbols. However, the persistence of colonial situations around the world undoubtedly represented a blatant violation of fundamental rights, contradicting the principles and purposes of the United Nations Charter, and a “stigma in the conscience of the world”. Half a century after the adoption of the decolonization Declaration, 17 cases of colonialism had not been resolved, he noted.

People's Republic of China (PRC) incorporated Tibet (Bod) in 1950; a Provincial Government that is autonomous. It is not a NSGT. While there are three General Assembly Resolutions on the Question of Tibet, the fact remains that the Resolution were non-binding and under Customary Law, there was no international enforcement. The incorporation of Tibet into the PRC stands. The doctrine of binding precedent (historical enforcement record) and stare decisis ("to stand by that which was previously decided") the 1950's decision of incorporation and annexation is just as valid and gone unchallenged as the 1950 Jordanian Annexation of the West Bank that went unchallenged, or the annexation of the Crimea by the Russian Federation in 2014.

• Kashmir is an International Territorial Dispute; to be settled by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered; A/RES25/2625. It is not a NSGT; it is a disputed territory under a mutual ceasefire adopted by India and Pakistan in 2003.

• Palestine is a "state" that declared independence in 1988. It is not an NSGT.

Now I know that you disagree, but that is the way it is in the reality of the concrete world.

Most Respectfully,
R
Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.​

No, I include Palestine because it is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun. It is what it is what it is. The sky is blue and Palestine is ruled by "Israel."


 
P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, you have some crazy answer for everything.

This is not a complete list. The United Nations and Decolonization - Committee of 24 - Non-Self-Governing Territories

Tibet, Kashmir, and Palestine are not listed. Just a few off the top of my head.
(COMMENT)

Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.

Committee of 24
2016 Session
Documents


Press Releases

The list was updated in the Session beginning on 25 February 2016:

On 25 Feb 16:

Rafael Darío Ramírez Carreño (Venezuela), who was elected Chair of the Special Committee by acclamation, said decolonization had been one of the most important tasks in the history of the United Nations and had become one of its main symbols. However, the persistence of colonial situations around the world undoubtedly represented a blatant violation of fundamental rights, contradicting the principles and purposes of the United Nations Charter, and a “stigma in the conscience of the world”. Half a century after the adoption of the decolonization Declaration, 17 cases of colonialism had not been resolved, he noted.

People's Republic of China (PRC) incorporated Tibet (Bod) in 1950; a Provincial Government that is autonomous. It is not a NSGT. While there are three General Assembly Resolutions on the Question of Tibet, the fact remains that the Resolution were non-binding and under Customary Law, there was no international enforcement. The incorporation of Tibet into the PRC stands. The doctrine of binding precedent (historical enforcement record) and stare decisis ("to stand by that which was previously decided") the 1950's decision of incorporation and annexation is just as valid and gone unchallenged as the 1950 Jordanian Annexation of the West Bank that went unchallenged, or the annexation of the Crimea by the Russian Federation in 2014.

• Kashmir is an International Territorial Dispute; to be settled by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered; A/RES25/2625. It is not a NSGT; it is a disputed territory under a mutual ceasefire adopted by India and Pakistan in 2003.

• Palestine is a "state" that declared independence in 1988. It is not an NSGT.

Now I know that you disagree, but that is the way it is in the reality of the concrete world.

Most Respectfully,
R
Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.​

No, I include Palestine because it is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun. It is what it is what it is. The sky is blue and Palestine is ruled by "Israel."

Mindlessly cutting and pasting "Arab street" you tube videos as toothless testimony to support a worthless point is time wasting.
 
montelatici, et al,

Oh yeah...

Rocco,

The colonization of Palestine is declared in specific UN Resolutions:

Resolution 3092

4. Calls upon Israel to desist immediately from the annexation and colonization of the Arab territories occupied by it since 1967, the establishment of settlements and the transfer of population to, from or within those territories, and from all the other practices referred to in paragraph 3 above;


UN General Assembly Resolution 3092 (December 1973) | Jewish Virtual Library

Resolution 3025

8. Reaffirms further that Israel's policy of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories is a flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and of the relevant United Nations resolutions, and urges all States to refrain from any action which Israel will exploit in carrying out its policy of colonizing the occupied territories;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3525 (December 1975) | Jewish Virtual Library

And Resolution 34/44 where Palestine is associated directly with Resolution 1514, that you claimed does not refer to Palestine.

Reaffirming its faith in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, containing the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, and the importance of its implementation,............Indignant at the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia and South Africa's attempts to dismember its territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority régimes in Zimbabwe and South Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of its inalienable national rights,

UN General Assembly Resolution 34/44 (November 1979) | Jewish Virtual Library
(QUESTION)

Can you help me out here???

  • Which one of these UN Resolutions are "binding?"
  • What date did they go into force?
  • Which ones are compatible with the actual Customary Law in which it is practiced?

Many Thanks,
R

Wrong question RoccoR. Zionist israel would be an international pariah state by now if not for the U.S.A.

"The United States voted against a United Nations Security Council draft resolution on Friday (2010) that would have condemned Israeli settlements as illegal. The veto by the U.S., a permanent council member, prevented the resolution from being adopted.

The other 14 Security Council members voted in favor of the draft resolution. But the U.S., as one of five permanent council members with the power to block any action by the Security Council, struck it down.

The resolution had nearly 120 co-sponsors. The Obama administration's veto is certain to anger Arab countries and Palestinian supporters around the world."
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...un-resolution-condemning-settlements-1.344390

On in a string of vetos that make a mockery of International law and allow the Zionist regime to do what it likes:

Prior to the Nixon administration, the United States had never employed its veto power in the U.N. Security Council. It was first used March 17, 1970 over Southern Rhodesia. The second U.S. veto came two years later, when Washington sought to protect Israel from a resolution condemning Israel for one of its attacks on its neighbors. Since then, the United States has cast its veto a total of 39 times to shield Israel from Security Council draft resolutions that condemned, deplored, denounced, demanded, affirmed, endorsed, called on and urged Israel to obey the world body.
  1. Sept. 10, 1972—Condemned Israel’s attacks against Southern Lebanon and Syria; vote: 13 to 1, with 1 abstention
  2. July 26, 1973—Affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections; vote: 13 to 1, with China absent.
  3. Dec. 8, 1975—Condemned Israel’s air strikes and attacks in Southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians; vote: 13 to 1, with 1 abstention.
  4. Jan. 26, 1976—Called for self-determination of Palestinian people; vote: 9 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  5. March 25, 1976—Deplored Israel’s altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city, by most world nations and the United Nation’s; vote: 14 to 1.
  6. June 29, 1976—Affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people; vote: 10 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  7. April 30, 1980—Endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people; vote: 10 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  8. Jan. 20, 1982—Demanded Israel’s withdrawal from the Golan Heights; vote: 9 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  9. April 2, 1982—Condemned Israel’s mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva Convention protocols of civilized nations; vote: 14 to 1.
  10. April 20, 1982—Condemned an Israeli soldier who shot 11 Muslim worshippers on the Temple Mount of the Haram al-Sharaf near the Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem; vote: 14 to 1.
  11. June 8, 1982—Urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon; vote: 14 to 1.
  12. June 26, 1982—Urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut, Lebanon; vote: 14 to 1.
  13. Aug. 6, 1982—Urged cut-off of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  14. Aug. 2, 1983—Condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied Palestine territories of West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace; vote: 13 to 1, with 1 abstention.
  15. Sept. 6, 1984—Deplored Israel’s brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urged its withdrawal; vote: 14 to 1.
  16. March 12, 1985—Condemned Israeli brutality in Southern Lebanon and denounced Israel’s “Iron Fist” policy of repression; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  17. Sept. 13, 1985—Denounced Israel’s violation of human rights in the occupied territories; vote: 10 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  18. Jan. 17, 1986—Deplored Israel’s violence in Southern Lebanon; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  19. Jan. 30, 1986—Deplored Israel’s activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem which threaten the sanctity of Muslim holy sites; vote: 13 to 1, with 1 abstention.
  20. Feb. 6, 1986—Condemned Israel’s hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane on Feb. 4; vote: 10 to 1, with 1 abstention.
  21. Jan. 18, 1988—Deplored Israeli attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon; vote: 13 to 1, with Britain abstaining.
  22. Feb. 1, 1988—Called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian uprising that violate the rights of occupied Palestinians, abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations; vote: 14 to 1.
  23. April 15, 1988—Urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel’s shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention and called for a peace settlement under U.N. auspices; vote: 14 to 1.
  24. May 10, 1988—Condemned Israel’s May 2 incursion into Lebanon; vote: 14 to 1.
  25. Dec. 14, 1988—Deplored Israel’s Dec. 9 commando raids on Lebanon; vote: 14 to 1.
  26. Feb. 17, 1989—Deplored Israel’s repression of the Palestinian uprising and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians; vote: 14 to 1.
  27. June 9, 1989—Deplored Israel’s violation of the human rights of the Palestinians; vote: 14 to 1.
  28. Nov. 7, 1989—Demanded Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel’s crackdown on the Palestinian uprising; vote: 14 to 1.
  29. May 31, 1990—Called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands; vote: 14 to 1.
  30. May 17, 1995—Declared invalid Israel’s expropriation of land in East Jerusalem and in violation of Security Council resolutions and the Fourth Geneva convention; vote: 14 to 1.
  31. March 7, 1997—Called on Israel to refrain from settlement activity and all other actions in the occupied territories; vote:14 to 1.
  32. March 21, 1997—Demanded Israel cease construction of the settlement Har Homa (called Jabal Abu Ghneim by the Palestinians) in East Jerusalem and cease all other settlement activity in the occupied territories; vote: 13 to 1, with one abstention.
  33. March 26, 2001—Called for the deployment of a U.N. observer force in the West Bank and Gaza; vote: 9 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  34. Dec. 14, 2001—Condemned all acts of terror, the use of excessive force and destruction of properties and encouraged establishment of a monitoring apparatus; vote: 12-1, with 2 abstentions.
  35. Dec. 19, 2002—Expressed deep concern over Israel’s killing of U.N. employees and Israel’s destruction of the U.N. World Food Program warehouse in Beit Lahiya and demanded that Israel refrain from the excessive and disproportionate use of force in the occupied territories; vote: 12 to 1, with 2 abstentions.
  36. Sept. 16, 2003—Reaffirmed the illegality of deportation of any Palestinian and expressed concern about the possible deportation of Yasser Arafat; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  37. Oct. 14, 2003—Raised concerns about Israel’s building of a securiy fence through the occupied West Bank; vote 10 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  38. March 25, 2004—Condemned Israel for killing Palestinian spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin in a missile attack in Gaza; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  39. Oct. 5, 2004—Condemned Israel’s military incursion in Gaza, causing many civilian deaths and extensive damage to property; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
An Updated List of Vetoes Cast by the United States to Shield Israel from Criticism by the U.N. Security Council
 
montelatici, et al,

Oh yeah...

Rocco,

The colonization of Palestine is declared in specific UN Resolutions:

Resolution 3092

4. Calls upon Israel to desist immediately from the annexation and colonization of the Arab territories occupied by it since 1967, the establishment of settlements and the transfer of population to, from or within those territories, and from all the other practices referred to in paragraph 3 above;


UN General Assembly Resolution 3092 (December 1973) | Jewish Virtual Library

Resolution 3025

8. Reaffirms further that Israel's policy of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories is a flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and of the relevant United Nations resolutions, and urges all States to refrain from any action which Israel will exploit in carrying out its policy of colonizing the occupied territories;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3525 (December 1975) | Jewish Virtual Library

And Resolution 34/44 where Palestine is associated directly with Resolution 1514, that you claimed does not refer to Palestine.

Reaffirming its faith in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, containing the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, and the importance of its implementation,............Indignant at the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia and South Africa's attempts to dismember its territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority régimes in Zimbabwe and South Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of its inalienable national rights,

UN General Assembly Resolution 34/44 (November 1979) | Jewish Virtual Library
(QUESTION)

Can you help me out here???

  • Which one of these UN Resolutions are "binding?"
  • What date did they go into force?
  • Which ones are compatible with the actual Customary Law in which it is practiced?

Many Thanks,
R

Rocco

Now, when presented with the resolutions that address Palestine specifically and directly as a territory under colonial rule, you complain that they are General Assembly resolutions, while citing the de-colonization resolution (Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples), another General Assembly Resolution (and the list of non-self governing territories and Palestine's absence on it) as proof that Palestine is not a colony. Resolutions that confirm Palestine's colonial status is as binding as the list of non self-governing territories.



You lose again.
 
The UN becomes something of a laughable joke when Islamist nations are a part of the Human Rights Council.


The U.N.-Israel Relationship | Jewish Virtual Library

United Nations:
The U.N. Relationship with Israel

by Mitchell Bard
(Updated March 2016)

United Nations: Table of Contents | Conference on Racism | Security Council



In his speech to open the 61st General Assembly of the United Nations in September 2006, then-Secretary General Kofi Anan admitted that Israel is often unfairly judged by the international body and its various organizations. “On one side, supporters of Israel feel that it is harshly judged by standards that are not applied to its enemies,” Annan said. “And too often this is true, particularly in some UN bodies.”1
 
Why don't you post the rest of his statement?

"On the other side, people are outraged by the disproportionate use of force against the Palestinians, and by Israel's continued occupation and confiscation of Arab land."
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I am often reminded that:

"As long as a society is divided, security sector reform can never achieve its main objective, which is to
provide security and justice for all. "

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Towards Palestinian National Recognition
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . © . . . .Ramallah and Geneva, Second Edition 2011

I always thought that the Geneva Centre for the Democratic Control of Armed Forces (DCAF) was a little too optimistic when they wrote that. They imply, by using the term of "society," that the Israelis and Arab Palestinians are "one" (the same people), just of a different mind. I tend to think the entire Middle East as an organism, infected with a virus. As Erin Daly (Widener University Delaware Law School) and Jeremy Sarkin (Professor of Law at the University of South Africa) once wrote:

“Reconciliation is the soil in which democracy takes root. Democracy can thrive only where the disparate factions in society have chosen to be governed in common. Democracy requires that the disappointed minority accede to the will of the majority – a concession that can happen only if the minority and the majority are sufficiently reconciled that they accept each other’s presence in the polity and the content of each other’s choices as legitimate, even if they don’t agree with them.”

“Societies that produce despots are polarized ones in which enough members are disaffected that they are willing to turn against, or support, a regime that turns against their fellow citizens. If reconciliation is going to have a deterrent effect it must be reconciliation among the people, not just between the leaders. (…) Despotism will be deterred when the people will have enough connection to one another that they will not allow a despot to divide them; when the people have enough respect for human rights that they will not tolerate abusive means even to achieve ends that they might otherwise like; when they are sufficiently invested in their communities and in their nations that they ask questions and demand accountability from their leaders.”

The Arab-Palestinian people have not yet achieved enough connection with the Israelis that they will not allow a despot to divide them. Instead, as the Arab-Palestinians continue a level of belligerents that threaten the peace and security of Israel, the longer it will take for the Arab-Palestinian to develop a basic foundation on which they can "stand alone" (Article 22 Criteria).

(COMMENT)
Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.
No, I include Palestine because it is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun. It is what it is what it is. The sky is blue and Palestine is ruled by "Israel."
(COMMENT)

Your claim that "Palestine" is rule by a "foreign power" raises the question of statehood and puts certain protections at risk. As you know, Article 33(1) plays a major rule in the "reconciliation" process when settling disputes between peacefully using the generally recognized international adjudication process. But some of these processes, like the International Court of Justice (ICJ), are cut short because Article 92 stipulates that the ICJ may only issue binding rulings in disputes between states.

Ever since the Declaration of 1988, the international community had debated the contention of Palestinian Statehood; on both the political level and on the application of law level. The fact that the UN has only granted accord to Palestine "non-member observer" State status (A/RES/67/19); as opposed fully membership endorsement. BUT there is a rub (friction) found in the Resolution.

Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations said:
"Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;"

In fact, upon close examination of the Resolution (on the Status of Palestine), it does not say that there actually exists a "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;" BUT only "the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence" on that territory.

I suppose that the very first thing that should be determined is whether or not the State of Palestine has actually emerged as having a state population, state territory, effective government.


British Yearbook of International Law-1977 said:
The formation of a new State is, as will be remembered from former statements, a matter of fact and not of law. It is through recognition, which is a matter of law, that such new State becomes subject to International Law. As soon as recognition is given, the new State's territory is recognized as the territory of a subject of International Law, and it matters not how this territory is acquired before the recognition. I Hence also, the acquisition of territory by a new State was not regarded as a mode of acquisition of territory in international law, though revolt was a method of losing territory: 'Revolt followed by secession is a mode of losing territory to which no mode of acquisition corresponds.'
SOURCE: Page 99, IN INTERNATIONAL LAW

Yes, that is an interesting opinion. If statehood is a "matter of fact and not of law," THEN could you be correct? And does that have an implication on whether or not the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" is actually a state "in fact?"

IF --- the argument is that the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" cannot exercise the powers of government because of the control exerted by the Israelis over the territory, THEN --- the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" is not a state and therefore cannot enter into treaties. Therefore have no case with the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Court of Justice.

IF --- the argument is that the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" have created a state (in fact) then it has exercised "the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967," as reaffirmed by the General Assembly Resolution 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations (A/RES/67/19); THEN --- again have not validity in the complaint the Israel prevents independence and self-government.

You will also notice a peculiar remark in :
General Assembly Resolution 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations (A/RES/67/19) said:
Recalling its resolutions 3210 (XXIX) of 14 October 1974 and 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974, by which, respectively, the Palestine Liberation Organization was invited to participate in the deliberations of the General Assembly as the representative of the Palestinian people and was granted observer status,
AND
Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;
Who actually is "recognized" by whom as the government --- reaffirmed --- representing the people of Israel in 2012. If there is a struggle within the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" --- who is it with? It was the PLO that declared independence for the Palestinian People --- creating the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967." If the PLO recognized as the representative to the UN in 2012, remaining so continuously to this day, then what is the relationship of the people to the PLO? Who "is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun?"

There are lots of questions that need to be resolved.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Why don't you post the rest of his statement?

"On the other side, people are outraged by the disproportionate use of force against the Palestinians, and by Israel's continued occupation and confiscation of Arab land."
Why don't you tell us about "disproportional force" as it relates to defending oneself from acts of Islamic terrorism?

Why would you expect israel to react differently from others when defending itself from Islamic terrorism?
 
Challenger, et al,

We will have to agree to disagree.

montelatici, et al,

Oh yeah...

Rocco,

The colonization of Palestine is declared in specific UN Resolutions:

Resolution 3092

4. Calls upon Israel to desist immediately from the annexation and colonization of the Arab territories occupied by it since 1967, the establishment of settlements and the transfer of population to, from or within those territories, and from all the other practices referred to in paragraph 3 above;


UN General Assembly Resolution 3092 (December 1973) | Jewish Virtual Library

Resolution 3025

8. Reaffirms further that Israel's policy of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories is a flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and of the relevant United Nations resolutions, and urges all States to refrain from any action which Israel will exploit in carrying out its policy of colonizing the occupied territories;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3525 (December 1975) | Jewish Virtual Library

And Resolution 34/44 where Palestine is associated directly with Resolution 1514, that you claimed does not refer to Palestine.

Reaffirming its faith in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, containing the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, and the importance of its implementation,............Indignant at the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia and South Africa's attempts to dismember its territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority régimes in Zimbabwe and South Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of its inalienable national rights,

UN General Assembly Resolution 34/44 (November 1979) | Jewish Virtual Library
(QUESTION)

Can you help me out here???

  • Which one of these UN Resolutions are "binding?"
  • What date did they go into force?
  • Which ones are compatible with the actual Customary Law in which it is practiced?

Many Thanks,
R

Wrong question RoccoR. Zionist israel would be an international pariah state by now if not for the U.S.A.

"The United States voted against a United Nations Security Council draft resolution on Friday (2010) that would have condemned Israeli settlements as illegal. The veto by the U.S., a permanent council member, prevented the resolution from being adopted.

The other 14 Security Council members voted in favor of the draft resolution. But the U.S., as one of five permanent council members with the power to block any action by the Security Council, struck it down.

The resolution had nearly 120 co-sponsors. The Obama administration's veto is certain to anger Arab countries and Palestinian supporters around the world."
Israel 'deeply appreciates' U.S. veto on UN resolution condemning settlements

On in a string of vetos that make a mockery of International law and allow the Zionist regime to do what it likes:

Prior to the Nixon administration, the United States had never employed its veto power in the U.N. Security Council. It was first used March 17, 1970 over Southern Rhodesia. The second U.S. veto came two years later, when Washington sought to protect Israel from a resolution condemning Israel for one of its attacks on its neighbors. Since then, the United States has cast its veto a total of 39 times to shield Israel from Security Council draft resolutions that condemned, deplored, denounced, demanded, affirmed, endorsed, called on and urged Israel to obey the world body.
  1. Sept. 10, 1972—Condemned Israel’s attacks against Southern Lebanon and Syria; vote: 13 to 1, with 1 abstention
  2. July 26, 1973—Affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections; vote: 13 to 1, with China absent.
  3. Dec. 8, 1975—Condemned Israel’s air strikes and attacks in Southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians; vote: 13 to 1, with 1 abstention.
  4. Jan. 26, 1976—Called for self-determination of Palestinian people; vote: 9 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  5. March 25, 1976—Deplored Israel’s altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city, by most world nations and the United Nation’s; vote: 14 to 1.
  6. June 29, 1976—Affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people; vote: 10 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  7. April 30, 1980—Endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people; vote: 10 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  8. Jan. 20, 1982—Demanded Israel’s withdrawal from the Golan Heights; vote: 9 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  9. April 2, 1982—Condemned Israel’s mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva Convention protocols of civilized nations; vote: 14 to 1.
  10. April 20, 1982—Condemned an Israeli soldier who shot 11 Muslim worshippers on the Temple Mount of the Haram al-Sharaf near the Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem; vote: 14 to 1.
  11. June 8, 1982—Urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon; vote: 14 to 1.
  12. June 26, 1982—Urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut, Lebanon; vote: 14 to 1.
  13. Aug. 6, 1982—Urged cut-off of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  14. Aug. 2, 1983—Condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied Palestine territories of West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace; vote: 13 to 1, with 1 abstention.
  15. Sept. 6, 1984—Deplored Israel’s brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urged its withdrawal; vote: 14 to 1.
  16. March 12, 1985—Condemned Israeli brutality in Southern Lebanon and denounced Israel’s “Iron Fist” policy of repression; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  17. Sept. 13, 1985—Denounced Israel’s violation of human rights in the occupied territories; vote: 10 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  18. Jan. 17, 1986—Deplored Israel’s violence in Southern Lebanon; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  19. Jan. 30, 1986—Deplored Israel’s activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem which threaten the sanctity of Muslim holy sites; vote: 13 to 1, with 1 abstention.
  20. Feb. 6, 1986—Condemned Israel’s hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane on Feb. 4; vote: 10 to 1, with 1 abstention.
  21. Jan. 18, 1988—Deplored Israeli attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon; vote: 13 to 1, with Britain abstaining.
  22. Feb. 1, 1988—Called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian uprising that violate the rights of occupied Palestinians, abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations; vote: 14 to 1.
  23. April 15, 1988—Urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel’s shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention and called for a peace settlement under U.N. auspices; vote: 14 to 1.
  24. May 10, 1988—Condemned Israel’s May 2 incursion into Lebanon; vote: 14 to 1.
  25. Dec. 14, 1988—Deplored Israel’s Dec. 9 commando raids on Lebanon; vote: 14 to 1.
  26. Feb. 17, 1989—Deplored Israel’s repression of the Palestinian uprising and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians; vote: 14 to 1.
  27. June 9, 1989—Deplored Israel’s violation of the human rights of the Palestinians; vote: 14 to 1.
  28. Nov. 7, 1989—Demanded Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel’s crackdown on the Palestinian uprising; vote: 14 to 1.
  29. May 31, 1990—Called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands; vote: 14 to 1.
  30. May 17, 1995—Declared invalid Israel’s expropriation of land in East Jerusalem and in violation of Security Council resolutions and the Fourth Geneva convention; vote: 14 to 1.
  31. March 7, 1997—Called on Israel to refrain from settlement activity and all other actions in the occupied territories; vote:14 to 1.
  32. March 21, 1997—Demanded Israel cease construction of the settlement Har Homa (called Jabal Abu Ghneim by the Palestinians) in East Jerusalem and cease all other settlement activity in the occupied territories; vote: 13 to 1, with one abstention.
  33. March 26, 2001—Called for the deployment of a U.N. observer force in the West Bank and Gaza; vote: 9 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  34. Dec. 14, 2001—Condemned all acts of terror, the use of excessive force and destruction of properties and encouraged establishment of a monitoring apparatus; vote: 12-1, with 2 abstentions.
  35. Dec. 19, 2002—Expressed deep concern over Israel’s killing of U.N. employees and Israel’s destruction of the U.N. World Food Program warehouse in Beit Lahiya and demanded that Israel refrain from the excessive and disproportionate use of force in the occupied territories; vote: 12 to 1, with 2 abstentions.
  36. Sept. 16, 2003—Reaffirmed the illegality of deportation of any Palestinian and expressed concern about the possible deportation of Yasser Arafat; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  37. Oct. 14, 2003—Raised concerns about Israel’s building of a securiy fence through the occupied West Bank; vote 10 to 1, with 4 abstentions.
  38. March 25, 2004—Condemned Israel for killing Palestinian spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin in a missile attack in Gaza; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
  39. Oct. 5, 2004—Condemned Israel’s military incursion in Gaza, causing many civilian deaths and extensive damage to property; vote: 11 to 1, with 3 abstentions.
An Updated List of Vetoes Cast by the United States to Shield Israel from Criticism by the U.N. Security Council
(COMMENT)

This list only represents about half of the actual number of resolution passed that oppose Israel for one reason or the other. This only represents evidence of two things.

• The extraordinary number of nations that have been coerced into supporting the Palestinians against the Israelis of face a Muslim backlash domestically.
• The example of the misfeasance and malfeasance exercised by the UN, International Courts, and the extraordinary number of nations that have supported the dishonorable practice of selective enforcement in favor of the Palestinian acts of aggression and against the defense of the Jewish National Home of Israel.

Until such time as I see these international entities begin to:

• act against the terrorist legacy operations that indiscriminately launch rockets and mortars in to Israel,
• act against the terrorist legacy operations that intentionally kidnap and murder civilians,
• act against the terrorist legacy operations by Palestinian gunmen that attack crowds of civilians.
• act against the terrorist legacy operations that attack buses of women and children,
• not to mention the suicide bombings, attacks on tourist and the religious on retreat,
• not to mention the criminal history dating back before the Olympic Massacre, or the numours airline hijackings, etc, etc, etc,

Showing me how non-Jewish opponents pass resolution after resolution - condemning Israel, under the false color of law, does not change my mind one bit. In fact, logically, it is in favor of my stand.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I am often reminded that:

"As long as a society is divided, security sector reform can never achieve its main objective, which is to
provide security and justice for all. "

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Towards Palestinian National Recognition
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . © . . . .Ramallah and Geneva, Second Edition 2011

I always thought that the Geneva Centre for the Democratic Control of Armed Forces (DCAF) was a little too optimistic when they wrote that. They imply, by using the term of "society," that the Israelis and Arab Palestinians are "one" (the same people), just of a different mind. I tend to think the entire Middle East as an organism, infected with a virus. As Erin Daly (Widener University Delaware Law School) and Jeremy Sarkin (Professor of Law at the University of South Africa) once wrote:

“Reconciliation is the soil in which democracy takes root. Democracy can thrive only where the disparate factions in society have chosen to be governed in common. Democracy requires that the disappointed minority accede to the will of the majority – a concession that can happen only if the minority and the majority are sufficiently reconciled that they accept each other’s presence in the polity and the content of each other’s choices as legitimate, even if they don’t agree with them.”

“Societies that produce despots are polarized ones in which enough members are disaffected that they are willing to turn against, or support, a regime that turns against their fellow citizens. If reconciliation is going to have a deterrent effect it must be reconciliation among the people, not just between the leaders. (…) Despotism will be deterred when the people will have enough connection to one another that they will not allow a despot to divide them; when the people have enough respect for human rights that they will not tolerate abusive means even to achieve ends that they might otherwise like; when they are sufficiently invested in their communities and in their nations that they ask questions and demand accountability from their leaders.”

The Arab-Palestinian people have not yet achieved enough connection with the Israelis that they will not allow a despot to divide them. Instead, as the Arab-Palestinians continue a level of belligerents that threaten the peace and security of Israel, the longer it will take for the Arab-Palestinian to develop a basic foundation on which they can "stand alone" (Article 22 Criteria).

(COMMENT)
Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.
No, I include Palestine because it is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun. It is what it is what it is. The sky is blue and Palestine is ruled by "Israel."
(COMMENT)

Your claim that "Palestine" is rule by a "foreign power" raises the question of statehood and puts certain protections at risk. As you know, Article 33(1) plays a major rule in the "reconciliation" process when settling disputes between peacefully using the generally recognized international adjudication process. But some of these processes, like the International Court of Justice (ICJ), are cut short because Article 92 stipulates that the ICJ may only issue binding rulings in disputes between states.

Ever since the Declaration of 1988, the international community had debated the contention of Palestinian Statehood; on both the political level and on the application of law level. The fact that the UN has only granted accord to Palestine "non-member observer" State status (A/RES/67/19); as opposed fully membership endorsement. BUT there is a rub (friction) found in the Resolution.

Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations said:
"Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;"

In fact, upon close examination of the Resolution (on the Status of Palestine), it does not say that there actually exists a "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;" BUT only "the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence" on that territory.

I suppose that the very first thing that should be determined is whether or not the State of Palestine has actually emerged as having a state population, state territory, effective government.


British Yearbook of International Law-1977 said:
The formation of a new State is, as will be remembered from former statements, a matter of fact and not of law. It is through recognition, which is a matter of law, that such new State becomes subject to International Law. As soon as recognition is given, the new State's territory is recognized as the territory of a subject of International Law, and it matters not how this territory is acquired before the recognition. I Hence also, the acquisition of territory by a new State was not regarded as a mode of acquisition of territory in international law, though revolt was a method of losing territory: 'Revolt followed by secession is a mode of losing territory to which no mode of acquisition corresponds.'
SOURCE: Page 99, IN INTERNATIONAL LAW

Yes, that is an interesting opinion. If statehood is a "matter of fact and not of law," THEN could you be correct? And does that have an implication on whether or not the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" is actually a state "in fact?"

IF --- the argument is that the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" cannot exercise the powers of government because of the control exerted by the Israelis over the territory, THEN --- the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" is not a state and therefore cannot enter into treaties. Therefore have no case with the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Court of Justice.

IF --- the argument is that the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" have created a state (in fact) then it has exercised "the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967," as reaffirmed by the General Assembly Resolution 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations (A/RES/67/19); THEN --- again have not validity in the complaint the Israel prevents independence and self-government.

You will also notice a peculiar remark in :
General Assembly Resolution 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations (A/RES/67/19) said:
Recalling its resolutions 3210 (XXIX) of 14 October 1974 and 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974, by which, respectively, the Palestine Liberation Organization was invited to participate in the deliberations of the General Assembly as the representative of the Palestinian people and was granted observer status,
AND
Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;
Who actually is "recognized" by whom as the government --- reaffirmed --- representing the people of Israel in 2012. If there is a struggle within the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" --- who is it with? It was the PLO that declared independence for the Palestinian People --- creating the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967." If the PLO recognized as the representative to the UN in 2012, remaining so continuously to this day, then what is the relationship of the people to the PLO? Who "is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun?"

There are lots of questions that need to be resolved.

Most Respectfully,
R
THEN ---​
the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" is not a state and therefore cannot enter into treaties.​

What about Oslo and subsequent agreements?
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I am often reminded that:

"As long as a society is divided, security sector reform can never achieve its main objective, which is to
provide security and justice for all. "

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Towards Palestinian National Recognition
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . © . . . .Ramallah and Geneva, Second Edition 2011

I always thought that the Geneva Centre for the Democratic Control of Armed Forces (DCAF) was a little too optimistic when they wrote that. They imply, by using the term of "society," that the Israelis and Arab Palestinians are "one" (the same people), just of a different mind. I tend to think the entire Middle East as an organism, infected with a virus. As Erin Daly (Widener University Delaware Law School) and Jeremy Sarkin (Professor of Law at the University of South Africa) once wrote:

“Reconciliation is the soil in which democracy takes root. Democracy can thrive only where the disparate factions in society have chosen to be governed in common. Democracy requires that the disappointed minority accede to the will of the majority – a concession that can happen only if the minority and the majority are sufficiently reconciled that they accept each other’s presence in the polity and the content of each other’s choices as legitimate, even if they don’t agree with them.”

“Societies that produce despots are polarized ones in which enough members are disaffected that they are willing to turn against, or support, a regime that turns against their fellow citizens. If reconciliation is going to have a deterrent effect it must be reconciliation among the people, not just between the leaders. (…) Despotism will be deterred when the people will have enough connection to one another that they will not allow a despot to divide them; when the people have enough respect for human rights that they will not tolerate abusive means even to achieve ends that they might otherwise like; when they are sufficiently invested in their communities and in their nations that they ask questions and demand accountability from their leaders.”

The Arab-Palestinian people have not yet achieved enough connection with the Israelis that they will not allow a despot to divide them. Instead, as the Arab-Palestinians continue a level of belligerents that threaten the peace and security of Israel, the longer it will take for the Arab-Palestinian to develop a basic foundation on which they can "stand alone" (Article 22 Criteria).

(COMMENT)
Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.
No, I include Palestine because it is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun. It is what it is what it is. The sky is blue and Palestine is ruled by "Israel."
(COMMENT)

Your claim that "Palestine" is rule by a "foreign power" raises the question of statehood and puts certain protections at risk. As you know, Article 33(1) plays a major rule in the "reconciliation" process when settling disputes between peacefully using the generally recognized international adjudication process. But some of these processes, like the International Court of Justice (ICJ), are cut short because Article 92 stipulates that the ICJ may only issue binding rulings in disputes between states.

Ever since the Declaration of 1988, the international community had debated the contention of Palestinian Statehood; on both the political level and on the application of law level. The fact that the UN has only granted accord to Palestine "non-member observer" State status (A/RES/67/19); as opposed fully membership endorsement. BUT there is a rub (friction) found in the Resolution.

Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations said:
"Affirms its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;"

In fact, upon close examination of the Resolution (on the Status of Palestine), it does not say that there actually exists a "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;" BUT only "the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence" on that territory.

I suppose that the very first thing that should be determined is whether or not the State of Palestine has actually emerged as having a state population, state territory, effective government.


British Yearbook of International Law-1977 said:
The formation of a new State is, as will be remembered from former statements, a matter of fact and not of law. It is through recognition, which is a matter of law, that such new State becomes subject to International Law. As soon as recognition is given, the new State's territory is recognized as the territory of a subject of International Law, and it matters not how this territory is acquired before the recognition. I Hence also, the acquisition of territory by a new State was not regarded as a mode of acquisition of territory in international law, though revolt was a method of losing territory: 'Revolt followed by secession is a mode of losing territory to which no mode of acquisition corresponds.'
SOURCE: Page 99, IN INTERNATIONAL LAW

Yes, that is an interesting opinion. If statehood is a "matter of fact and not of law," THEN could you be correct? And does that have an implication on whether or not the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" is actually a state "in fact?"

IF --- the argument is that the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" cannot exercise the powers of government because of the control exerted by the Israelis over the territory, THEN --- the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" is not a state and therefore cannot enter into treaties. Therefore have no case with the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Court of Justice.

IF --- the argument is that the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" have created a state (in fact) then it has exercised "the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967," as reaffirmed by the General Assembly Resolution 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations (A/RES/67/19); THEN --- again have not validity in the complaint the Israel prevents independence and self-government.

You will also notice a peculiar remark in :
General Assembly Resolution 67/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations (A/RES/67/19) said:
Recalling its resolutions 3210 (XXIX) of 14 October 1974 and 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974, by which, respectively, the Palestine Liberation Organization was invited to participate in the deliberations of the General Assembly as the representative of the Palestinian people and was granted observer status,
AND
Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;
Who actually is "recognized" by whom as the government --- reaffirmed --- representing the people of Israel in 2012. If there is a struggle within the people of the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" --- who is it with? It was the PLO that declared independence for the Palestinian People --- creating the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967." If the PLO recognized as the representative to the UN in 2012, remaining so continuously to this day, then what is the relationship of the people to the PLO? Who "is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun?"

There are lots of questions that need to be resolved.

Most Respectfully,
R
I can tell by your response that you did not understand my post.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, interesting you should bring that up:

Oslo Accord I is not actually a Treaty in the sense of the internationally recognized form of international diplomacy; although it is written on the same template. It is a formal and explicit joint statement and political announcement by multiple parties. The OsloI is formally the "Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (DOP)."

The DOP had a SECRET portion, had something that a normal Treaty cannot have, a SECRET addendum. Normal Treaties are required to be transmitted to the Secretariat of the United Nations for registration or filing and recording, as the case may be, and for publication. This would preclude SECRET addendum by definition.
(Article 102 of the UN Charter and Article 80, Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties)

The Oslo II or Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Stripl, is not a treaty, but the framework and process document where by diplomatic protocols are outlined in order to reach a "lasting and comprehensive peace settlement and historic reconciliation through the agreed political process." It is a "How To" document.

THEN ---
the 1988 "State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967" is not a state and therefore cannot enter into treaties.​
What about Oslo and subsequent agreements?
(COMMENT)

The SECRET addendum to Oslo I, has since been released, along with the knowledge that Yasser Arafat acknowledged that "the PLO committed to recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security, to accept UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides." It also contains the changes to the PLO Charter that both sides agreed upon.

It should be noted that the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) (AKA: Palestinian Authority) was established in 1994 as an outcome of the Oslo peace process as the elected government.


1969 VIENNA CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF TREATIES
Article 1 Scope of the Present Convention

The present Convention applies to treaties between States.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
]P F Tinmore, et al,

No, not at all. I understood the accusation quite well.

(COMMENT)
Look, you just don't understand the criteria. You make it up so as to include you Palestine.
No, I include Palestine because it is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun. It is what it is what it is. The sky is blue and Palestine is ruled by "Israel."
I can tell by your response that you did not understand my post.
(COMMENT)

You accused Israel of being a foreign power (Palestine because it is ruled by a foreign power at the point of a gun). I thought it was pretty simple. Israel is not a "foreign Power" and it does not rule "at the point of the gun;" but in response to chaos, disorder and violence initiated by the Arab Palestinians and the leadership of a corrupt government. "Article 42 and 43 apply Hague Regulation."

Most Respectfully, R
 
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