Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

[Foxfyre]

Does that make me a bigot? Ya'll think you should picket my place of business, threaten me and my friends and family and customers, threaten my suppliers? Destroy me. Wreck me financially? All because most of you do not agree with my views on this?

>>> Does that make me a bigot?
bigot: a person who has strong, unreasonable ideas, esp. about race or religion, and who thinks anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong.

Yes, your opinion that it is ok to discriminate against gays makes you a bigot against gays. You could argue that I'm a bigot for gays. No, I'm not gay. I'm a liberty loving constitutional conservative, married to my lovely wife for 27 years.

>>> Ya'll think you should picket my place of business, threaten me and my friends and family and customers, threaten my suppliers? Destroy me. Wreck me financially?

Picket, yes. I'm picketing you right now with my posts.

Threaten you, your friends, and suppliers? Is my post "threatening" in any way?

>>> Destroy me.
You mean like the type of destruction and pain your support for laws against gay couples causes?

>>> Wreck me financially?
I don't have to buy from people who are bigots against blacks, gays, jews or any other groups if I don't want to. I don't owe you a thing. If your love of your pet bigotries are greater than desire for me to be a customer of your establishment then so be it.

Okay. I'll put you down as one who would have enjoyed the persecutions in the Roman Empire heyday, who completely supports militant Islanic fundamentalists in torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading heretics even now, and you would have eagerly participated in the Inquisition.

And otherwise you won't address the argument presented but rewrite it into something more politically correct.

But thanks for letting us know.

 

[RKMBrown]

But, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.

Not so much. There's maybe one vague reference to marriage being between a man and a woman in the new testament that has nothing to do with gays at all. And the old testament just had one mention to my understanding. The new testament is more than just an augmentation of the old testament. Would you say slavery is not a sin because it's in the bible? Just because there is one reference in the old test. to a Jewish law of antiquity, does not make being gay a sin. Should we be sacrificing goats and stoning sinners in the streets?

 

[Dot Com]

Does that make me a bigot? Ya'll think you should picket my place of business, threaten me and my friends and family and customers, threaten my suppliers? Destroy me. Wreck me financially? All because most of you do not agree with my views on this?

>>> Does that make me a bigot?
bigot: a person who has strong, unreasonable ideas, esp. about race or religion, and who thinks anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong.

Yes, your opinion that it is ok to discriminate against gays makes you a bigot against gays. You could argue that I'm a bigot for gays. No, I'm not gay. I'm a liberty loving constitutional conservative, married to my lovely wife for 27 years.

>>> Ya'll think you should picket my place of business, threaten me and my friends and family and customers, threaten my suppliers? Destroy me. Wreck me financially?

Picket, yes. I'm picketing you right now with my posts.

Threaten you, your friends, and suppliers? Is my post "threatening" in any way?

>>> Destroy me.
You mean like the type of destruction and pain your support for laws against gay couples causes?

>>> Wreck me financially?
I don't have to buy from people who are bigots against blacks, gays, jews or any other groups if I don't want to. I don't owe you a thing. If your love of your pet bigotries are greater than desire for me to be a customer of your establishment then so be it.

Okay. I'll put you down as one who would have enjoyed the persecutions in the Roman Empire heyday, who completely supports militant Islanic fundamentalists in torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading heretics even now, and you would have eagerly participated in the Inquisition.

And otherwise you won't address the argument presented but rewrite it into something more politically correct.

But thanks for letting us know.

keep that hyperbole train rolling Katzndogz..... errr.....FoxFyre

 

[Vandalshandle]

Boycotting a bakery="one who would have enjoyed the persecutions in the Roman Empire heyday, who completely supports militant Islanic fundamentalists in torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading heretics even now, and you would have eagerly participated in the Inquisition."

Yeah, it is a slippery slope!

 

[TemplarKormac]

But, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.

Not so much. There's maybe one vague reference to marriage being between a man and a woman in the new testament that has nothing to do with gays at all. And the old testament just had one mention to my understanding. The new testament is more than just an augmentation of the old testament. Would you say slavery is not a sin because it's in the bible? Just because there is one reference in the old test. to a Jewish law of antiquity, does not make being gay a sin. Should we be sacrificing goats and stoning sinners in the streets?

Sorry:


Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

 

[RKMBrown]

Okay. I'll put you down as one who would have enjoyed the persecutions in the Roman Empire heyday, who completely supports militant Islanic fundamentalists in torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading heretics even now, and you would have eagerly participated in the Inquisition.

And otherwise you won't address the argument presented but rewrite it into something more politically correct.

But thanks for letting us know.

Why did you have to go off the deep end and start making up lies? How is supporting picketing the same as supporting torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading? Please explain how not supporting violence is supporting violence. Please explain how one American killing someone 12 thousand miles away from our mainland is the fault of every single American on the planet.

I can be against your bigoted views without killing you. For example, I can point out that your views on gays are in fact, vile bigoted views. See no rape or stone was required. No one lost their head.

 

[Foxfyre]

Okay. I'll put you down as one who would have enjoyed the persecutions in the Roman Empire heyday, who completely supports militant Islanic fundamentalists in torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading heretics even now, and you would have eagerly participated in the Inquisition.

And otherwise you won't address the argument presented but rewrite it into something more politically correct.

But thanks for letting us know.

Why did you have to go off the deep end and start making up lies? How is supporting picketing the same as supporting torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading? Please explain how not supporting violence is supporting violence. Please explain how one American killing someone 12 thousand miles away from our mainland is the fault of every single American on the planet.

I can be against your bigoted views without killing you. For example, I can point out that your views on gays are in fact, vile bigoted views. See no rape or stone was required. No one lost their head.

I wasn't talking about picketing. You accused me of bigotry while sanctioning what I was talking against. When you will address what I was talking against, I will return to the discussion. Until then, my assessment of your position stands.

 

[TemplarKormac]

RKM, slavery in the Bible and the slavery that went on during the Civil War are two different things. How incredibly dense can you be? In those days, it was something called "indentured servitude." A "slave" signed a contract for 7 years in exchange for room and board for hard labor. By no means is this anything remotely similar to your flawed preconceptions about slavery.

Your whole argument is based on a limited knowledge of my faith and the doctrines involved with my faith. We do not feel obligated to give in to the political correctness of this day and age, that Bakery should never have been "shamed" into shuttering its doors. You liberals have a lot of gall trying to impose such immoral things on people of faith, for the sake of your twisted senses of equality.

 

[RKMBrown]

But, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.

Not so much. There's maybe one vague reference to marriage being between a man and a woman in the new testament that has nothing to do with gays at all. And the old testament just had one mention to my understanding. The new testament is more than just an augmentation of the old testament. Would you say slavery is not a sin because it's in the bible? Just because there is one reference in the old test. to a Jewish law of antiquity, does not make being gay a sin. Should we be sacrificing goats and stoning sinners in the streets?

Sorry:


Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Leviticus is the ancient law in the old testament i mentioned, it's from the Torah no less.

The verse in Corinthians is the vague reference in the new testament I mentioned. That reference was actually taking about whether to look for judgement from the Roman government or from the priests of the church. He was admonishing them for using the roman court. Then he lists a set of immoralities that they had done that were washed away by jesus...

The verse in Romans is again vague, talking about lustful sex acts. I suppose this in violation of church sanctified marriage.

Note: These are not told from Jesus. These are from people talking about jewish law and belief at the time.

There are a great many things in the bible that we have out grown. Such as thinking it's ok to have slaves.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

 

[bendog]

Homosexuality in ancient Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Paul's main ministry was among the hellenistic folks ... and later he went to Rome. The Greek view of married, adult men taking teenage male lovers was contrary to his view of christian morality.

 

[Katzndogz]

So much for the golden rule huh?

They at least should be guest speakers at various churches explaining to the congregation how they were persecuted and hounded out of business for refusing to dishonor their beliefs. They should not stop at their town or city but travel the nation and tell their story nationwide.

Good idea

They can hit the church picnic circuit and preach about their sacrifice of their business for Gods will.

They can speak about the tactics of the gay mafia.

 

[g5000]

But, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.

Not so much. There's maybe one vague reference to marriage being between a man and a woman in the new testament that has nothing to do with gays at all. And the old testament just had one mention to my understanding. The new testament is more than just an augmentation of the old testament. Would you say slavery is not a sin because it's in the bible? Just because there is one reference in the old test. to a Jewish law of antiquity, does not make being gay a sin. Should we be sacrificing goats and stoning sinners in the streets?

Sorry:


Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Do you eat lobster or crab?

Lev. 11:10-11, "And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination."

How about pork. Do you eat pork? See Lev. 11:4.

 

[RKMBrown]

RKM, slavery in the Bible and the slavery that went on during the Civil War are two different things. How incredibly dense can you be? In those days, it was something called "indentured servitude." A "slave" signed a contract for 7 years in exchange for room and board for hard labor. By no means is this anything remotely similar to your flawed preconceptions about slavery.

Your whole argument is based on a limited knowledge of my faith and the doctrines involved with my faith. We do not feel obligated to give in to the political correctness of this day and age, that Bakery should never have been "shamed" into shuttering its doors. You liberals have a lot of gall trying to impose such immoral things on people of faith, for the sake of your twisted senses of equality.

How incredibly obtuse can you be? Slavery during the roman times, just as slavery in our civil war era, most certainly did comprise both indentured servitude and permanent slavery. That you think slaves were all volunteers during Biblical times is laughable.

I'm not a modern liberal. And I may have "more" or "less" knowledge of your faith than you. In particular, I'm a Methodist. I've never claimed to speak for your faith. Your accusation is ludicrous.

That bakery was not forced to close, they closed because the customers eschewed them. They chose to throw stones at the gays... in response the community at large who used to be their customers... walked away. IMO the bakery owners should have followed the teachings of Jesus and put down their stones.

 

[g5000]

Paul condemns masturbators and gays in the same breath in the New Testament.

So...judge not, lest ye be judged. You'll spend eternity in hell for pulling your pud, surrounded by homos.

 

[emilynghiem]

You have to like us or else
/

The double standard is more like:
* It's WRONG to reject ALL gay people as "unnatural"
just because "SOME gay behavior" is related to abuse and not naturally born or chosen
* but it's OKAY to "reject ALL Christians as hypocrites"
just because SOME Christians are....

 

[g5000]

What have we learned.

We have learned eating pork or lobster is the same as being gay.

We have learned the free market has a way of weeding out businesses which do not serve the interests of the community. We have learned bigots are hypocrites when this principle works to their disadvantage.

We have learned that when a community fights back against haters, the haters are the biggest crybabies of all. Which is exactly what my father taught me about bullies when I was a kid.

 

[Katzndogz]

If a Christian believes that homosexuality is a sin, they should not participate in homosexuality. If they think it's a sin, they should not be attending same sex weddings. It's that simple. If gays can find a way for the vendors to sell their products or services without having to participate in the activities, let's hear it.

 

[emilynghiem]

Paul condemns masturbators and gays in the same breath in the New Testament.

So...judge not, lest ye be judged. You'll spend eternity in hell for whacking your pud, surrounded by homos.

Don't forget: fornicators who will not enter into heaven,
and adulterers, who if even lusting in their hearts, commit the sin in spirit.

The real issue is whether people are "abusing relationships" or "abusing sex"
by lusting after each other if they are not committed mates, and either
hurt themselves, each other, or other people by not respecting committed relations.

that is the underlying issue,
regardless of race, age, gender or whatever else has been blamed

either those engaged in a sexual relationship or act are committed spiritual partners
to each other and not causing harm, or they are abusing either sex, the relationship or both

since ppl are afraid to generalize to that level, they will "pick" some cases to blame
more than others. protesting rape, child abuse, pedophilia, forced marriages, sex or kids outside of marriage, etc etc. All forms of either sex or relationship abuse. take your pick!

 

[RKMBrown]

Okay. I'll put you down as one who would have enjoyed the persecutions in the Roman Empire heyday, who completely supports militant Islanic fundamentalists in torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading heretics even now, and you would have eagerly participated in the Inquisition.

And otherwise you won't address the argument presented but rewrite it into something more politically correct.

But thanks for letting us know.

Why did you have to go off the deep end and start making up lies? How is supporting picketing the same as supporting torturing, raping, stoning, and beheading? Please explain how not supporting violence is supporting violence. Please explain how one American killing someone 12 thousand miles away from our mainland is the fault of every single American on the planet.

I can be against your bigoted views without killing you. For example, I can point out that your views on gays are in fact, vile bigoted views. See no rape or stone was required. No one lost their head.

I wasn't talking about picketing. You accused me of bigotry while sanctioning what I was talking against. When you will address what I was talking against, I will return to the discussion. Until then, my assessment of your position stands.

Yes you were most certainly talking about picketing. Do I have to go back and quote, again? No i did not accuse you of bigotry while sanctioning what I was talking against. I accused you of bigotry because of what you were sanctioning. Two different and opposite things.

You are deflecting. NO ONE is defending any violence that took place. NO ONE. You "made" that up. Your accusations, thus, are made based on the assumption that someone, such as myself, is defending the violent acts that took place. Such as breaking into their truck. Why do you insist on focusing on the act of one person that broke into their truck? What is your point? Where do you want to go with that? I can only surmise the intent is to deflect away from the bigotry being expressed by the bakery owners and yourself. The single act by some jerk that broke into their truck one frigging time does not justify all bigotry against gays, now does it? I thought you said the justification was the law against gays getting married. Templar is saying the justification is a 2k year old verse in the bible.

I mean really? Are these the things you guys have to justify bigotry against gays? One stupid act by one person against one bakery owner's truck and a vague reference to lust as immoral in the bible?

 

[Katzndogz]

What have we learned.

We have learned eating pork or lobster is the same as being gay.

We have learned the free market has a way of weeding out businesses which do not serve the interests of the community. We have learned bigots are hypocrites when this principle works to their disadvantage.

We have learned that when a community fights back against haters, the haters are the biggest whiners of all.

In those days, eating pork or lobster could easily be a death sentence so it isn't at all surprising that someone would pass a rule against it.

Eat this lobster, fall over dead. Not that the region was overrun with lobsters. They must have had some kind of shellfish that would cause someone who ate it to stop breathing. How many people do you suppose ate shellfish and died? Or ate pork and got trichinosis and died before someone said "Maybe this isn't something we should be doing".