Child Support as political pawn.

[JP Cusick]

And...if you took that long to find "dated" data, and cannot even find for sure if it is still accurate, and if that does not even support your claim of "FACT," then it is not, in fact, a fact.

Neglecting financial obligations to one's children DOES inflict physical harm.

This claim too is NOT true, not accurate, not a fact.

Child Support paid or not paid has nothing to do with physical harm but that claim is made often and made callously.

A similar untrue claim is that not paying Child Support is the same as child-abuse which it is not.

These kinds of claims are just to demonize the separated parents, and to justify the unjust laws.

The fact is that we in the USA do not have homeless children, and we do not have children going hungry or unclothed or lacking medical care, and if at any time any child goes without any of these physical needs then it can only happen secretly through the neglect or the abuse done by the custodial, and if known then they need to be reported to the authorities for prosecution because it is not done here in the USA.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

There shouldn't be child support laws, period. The government has no right to interfere in family matters unless there is physical harm taking place.

Neglecting financial obligations to one's children DOES inflict physical harm.

That's a blatant lie, but you already know that.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

There shouldn't be child support laws, period. The government has no right to interfere in family matters unless there is physical harm taking place.

Neglecting financial obligations to one's children DOES inflict physical harm.

That's a blatant lie, but you already know that.

Yeah because the portion that goes to feeding the child doesn't prevent any physical harm right?

 

[JFK_USA]

While I think dead beat dads should get punished,

There is that self-righteousness again and it is hopeless indeed.

SARCASM = It does not matter what the facts show or what is the truth as we got to punish the demon "deadbeats" no matter what.

And you see the injustice done in your own life but you do not give the same regard to other parents like yourself = self-righteous, in that you are right and you are done wrong but the other parents are "deadbeats" and they deserve to be trashed under that mentality! (again sarcasm).

I think dads get the short end in custody agreements. I mean every other weekend and a few weeks a year is what I get and I miss him terribly. He's my little man and I love him so much, but I feel that sometimes that being a single father is frowned upon and a single mother is celebrated when we are both parents.

They have stolen your child and hold him prisoner while demanding ransom money in the guise of Child Support or else you will never see your son again. The "visitation rights" are given to keep you on the hook and to keep the separated parents paying the loot.

Oh well, that's life.

It is NOT "life" as it is laws being superimposed onto society by people who are no better than we are.

We all have a duty to do what is right in "life", and that includes the duty to resist or even to fight that which is wrong.

You don't know me and don't act like you do.

Its obvious you have never been in that situation. I hope you or anyone you love has to. You are constantly reminded of your failures. You could be out minding your own business and something triggers the memory again and it upsets you. Not only that but constantly fighting to be called Dad while some other douchebag is there with your ex and always around your son and you have all her friends who can and will talk shit about you behind your back.

Thats life as a single father. This isn't some self-righteous thing, this is me as a single father fighting for his and every other father's right to be in their child's life without ridicule because they failed in a relationship. I don't deserve that and neither those fathers.

 

[jillian]

hmm

I agree with parts of that. There's no sense in putting an unemployed parent in jail b/c they ran out of money, or, in my case, I was making far less than my highest income level when my wife left. If I didn't pay a lawyer to be there I would have been paying ~80% of my current income in CS.

The only real issue I have is custody. In PA, the father must prove that the mother is physically abusive to have a chance at custody. The only other way is for the mother to be a 3 time loser.

but as far as support goes. If the guy simply refuses to pay, he must be punished for theft, or the family is left hanging.

he is a deadbeat. no one puts an unemployed person in jail unless they're intentionally not working.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

While I think dead beat dads should get punished,

There is that self-righteousness again and it is hopeless indeed.

SARCASM = It does not matter what the facts show or what is the truth as we got to punish the demon "deadbeats" no matter what.

And you see the injustice done in your own life but you do not give the same regard to other parents like yourself = self-righteous, in that you are right and you are done wrong but the other parents are "deadbeats" and they deserve to be trashed under that mentality! (again sarcasm).



They have stolen your child and hold him prisoner while demanding ransom money in the guise of Child Support or else you will never see your son again. The "visitation rights" are given to keep you on the hook and to keep the separated parents paying the loot.

Oh well, that's life.

It is NOT "life" as it is laws being superimposed onto society by people who are no better than we are.

We all have a duty to do what is right in "life", and that includes the duty to resist or even to fight that which is wrong.

You don't know me and don't act like you do.

Its obvious you have never been in that situation. I hope you or anyone you love has to. You are constantly reminded of your failures. You could be out minding your own business and something triggers the memory again and it upsets you. Not only that but constantly fighting to be called Dad while some other douchebag is there with your ex and always around your son and you have all her friends who can and will talk shit about you behind your back.

Thats life as a single father. This isn't some self-righteous thing, this is me as a single father fighting for his and every other father's right to be in their child's life without ridicule because they failed in a relationship. I don't deserve that and neither those fathers.

I just gained a lot of respect for you JFK_USA.

 

[jillian]

You don't know me and don't act like you do.

Its obvious you have never been in that situation. I hope you or anyone you love has to. You are constantly reminded of your failures. You could be out minding your own business and something triggers the memory again and it upsets you. Not only that but constantly fighting to be called Dad while some other douchebag is there with your ex and always around your son and you have all her friends who can and will talk shit about you behind your back.

Thats life as a single father. This isn't some self-righteous thing, this is me as a single father fighting for his and every other father's right to be in their child's life without ridicule because they failed in a relationship. I don't deserve that and neither those fathers.

no they don't.

and neither do the kids. it's better for kids when dad participates fully in their lives.

 

[JP Cusick]

. it's better for kids when dad participates fully in their lives.

I agree with this as most people would - and it is a very common doctrine in today's News, but our laws turn that ideal into just words without substance.

This is because the separated parents (mostly fathers but some Moms) are subjugated to the Child Support laws that only require cash payments and the law turns the separated parent into a non-parent and just a source of cash.

It is hypocritical at best to claim the children need their parents (particularly need their Dad) but then demand and enforce cash collection Child Support laws which are inhuman and serve to break-up the family and alienates the parent(s) and turns many parents into criminals.

For the most part that cliche' as posted above is only meant to say the Dad must pay the order of Child Support and visit a couple times per month and otherwise to get lost in the process.

The Child Support and Custody laws do not bring the separated parent closer to their children as these laws are aggressively dividing and ruining the families.

 

[sinister59]

And...if you took that long to find "dated" data, and cannot even find for sure if it is still accurate, and if that does not even support your claim of "FACT," then it is not, in fact, a fact.

Neglecting financial obligations to one's children DOES inflict physical harm.

This claim too is NOT true, not accurate, not a fact.

Child Support paid or not paid has nothing to do with physical harm but that claim is made often and made callously.

A similar untrue claim is that not paying Child Support is the same as child-abuse which it is not.

These kinds of claims are just to demonize the separated parents, and to justify the unjust laws.

The fact is that we in the USA do not have homeless children, and we do not have children going hungry or unclothed or lacking medical care, and if at any time any child goes without any of these physical needs then it can only happen secretly through the neglect or the abuse done by the custodial, and if known then they need to be reported to the authorities for prosecution because it is not done here in the USA.

I don't get it , I thought not paying would effect the shelter for the kid , food , clothing , theses are physical effects of no support payments .

or are you saying if you don't support your kids the state will ?

 

[JP Cusick]

I don't get it , I thought not paying would effect the shelter for the kid , food , clothing , theses are physical effects of no support payments .

or are you saying if you don't support your kids the state will ?

I thank you for asking because questions I can deal with.

The claims of Child Support are overly dramatized for special effects as in demonizing the separated parents, and that is what the other poster trumpeted and the source of your question.

So in scrutiny I say lets take the drama out of your question / or indeed expose the drama.

If a child were in the middle of a desert or in the ocean on a deserted raft floating alone and THEN then to deny "food, clothing or shelter" would indeed cause physical harm and one could be charged with inflicting physical harm by refusing support to such a helpless child.

The truth and the reality is that "Child Support" is NOT involved in such drama.

The real-life living children are all under the care and supervision of their "custodian" (the custodial parent or other authority person) and the child is not helpless or deserted or suffering inflicted harm for not receiving the ordered Child Support payment.

And for truly poor children who has the custodial on welfare (public assistance) then they are still provided with food, clothing, shelter, medical care, and much more.

So here "Barb" said: "Neglecting financial obligations to one's children DOES inflict physical harm." then you ask about those physical effects (the harm) and the claim is factually untrue because there is no harm done to the child(ren).
And please believe that I do not call you or Bard as dishonest or lie but only that the info is a propaganda which is not true and not real and it has only served to demonize innocent parents.

Of course many custodial parents do cry up a storm on how much they are hurt, even when they are remarried and with high paying jobs and more, and the Courts along with the laws virtually require the custodial to cry up the storm so then the law looks like it is justified when it is not.

The many persons who do get injured by the Child Support system are the mistreated parents and the alienated children and the damage done to our society - there is where we find the inflicted harm.

There is some outside info from Wikipedia which seems enlightening even to me, see link here = Criticism of child support obligations effectiveness to benefit children, and see the "Child Support Industry" info given just below on that same link.

So it is not just me JP preaching such things, as the realities are slowly coming out.

 

[jillian]

. it's better for kids when dad participates fully in their lives.

I agree with this as most people would - and it is a very common doctrine in today's News, but our laws turn that ideal into just words without substance.

This is because the separated parents (mostly fathers but some Moms) are subjugated to the Child Support laws that only require cash payments and the law turns the separated parent into a non-parent and just a source of cash.

It is hypocritical at best to claim the children need their parents (particularly need their Dad) but then demand and enforce cash collection Child Support laws which are inhuman and serve to break-up the family and alienates the parent(s) and turns many parents into criminals.

For the most part that cliche' as posted above is only meant to say the Dad must pay the order of Child Support and visit a couple times per month and otherwise to get lost in the process.

The Child Support and Custody laws do not bring the separated parent closer to their children as these laws are aggressively dividing and ruining the families.

that's bogus. i have zero respect for people who don't honor their child support obligations.

 

[AllieBaba]

**** every single one of you assholes on here who think you should get something in return for child support.

You provide child support to contribute to your child's standard of living. You don't get to dictate how it's spent. You are obligated to pay it regardless of how badly you fucked up your life, regardless of how shitty a job you have, and regardless of whether or not you get to see your kid. Because whether or not you see your kid, the kid still exists. You might want to write him off because you're mad, and you might not give a shit about him if you can't see him, but that doesn't change anything.

I have not heard of one single deadbeat father ending up in jail. I'd love to see a jail roster that show deadbeat dads who are in jail for failing to pay their child support. The only time that would happen would be in the event of contempt of court, when a judge ORDERS this person to pay, and the person knows he's been ordered to pay, and he has $$ and still won't do it.

And he would deserve to be in jail. He has no problem putting a divet in the cash flow to the kid; likewise, he shouldn't object to having a divet put in his cash flow.

 

[California Girl]

Seems to me that we should, as a nation, be ensuring that joint custody of children is the standard, with primary custody only being given to one parent over another in exceptional circumstances. Children need both parents and both parents should be equally financially responsible. Not rocket science. Parents who refuse to support their kids should go to prison. Those with genuine financial problems, such as sudden unemployment or having a substantial cut in pay, should be assisted.

We really need to put the children first.

 

[The T]

Seems to me that we should, as a nation, be ensuring that joint custody of children is the standard, with primary custody only being given to one parent over another in exceptional circumstances. Children need both parents and both parents should be equally financially responsible. Not rocket science. Parents who refuse to support their kids should go to prison. Those with genuine financial problems, such as sudden unemployment or having a substantial cut in pay, should be assisted.

We really need to put the children first.

And those that have children should be put on notice that their FIRST responsibility IS to those that they procreate...IF they don't intend to take responsibility for their little forays IN BED and NEVER intend to take responsibility for their actions...should ABSTAIN...

If you don't wish to be held responsible...DON"T **** in the first place...

Don't make the REST of society responsible for your trist in the sack and the aftermath that results. We're damned SICK paying for it.

 

[JP Cusick]

that's bogus. i have zero respect for people who don't honor their child support obligations.

There are some kinds of respect which are not worth having.

As like in the Child Support where the custodial gives a kind of respect when they do get paid and yet the custodial gives a very different disrespectful regard when they do not get paid the Child Support loot.

So that kind of "respect" whether given or not is totally dependent on cash money and it has no other value.

What I suggest is a different type which is called "self-respect" which in not dependent on the whims of others and not on the pocketbook of others.

The custodial needs to stop accepting the legally stolen Child Support by every means possible and then reclaim their self respect.

Then I say the separated parents need to resist the Child Support thievery by every reasonable means and then regain their self respect.

It is important to recognize that it is the law which has violated those families, and so stop fighting one parent against the other parent, and stand up against the real enemy which is the intrusive and immoral Child Support law.

The kind of respect which can be bought and sold is a kind which is not worth having.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Seems to me that we should, as a nation, be ensuring that joint custody of children is the standard, with primary custody only being given to one parent over another in exceptional circumstances. Children need both parents and both parents should be equally financially responsible. Not rocket science. Parents who refuse to support their kids should go to prison. Those with genuine financial problems, such as sudden unemployment or having a substantial cut in pay, should be assisted.

We really need to put the children first.

I agree 100%. I think a child needs a mother and a father figure growing up. Regardless of how the parents feel about each other-most of the time the mother is the best mother figure, and the father the best father figure. Unless one parent is unfit to be a parent (drug addict, child abuser), custody should be equal. One week at one parent's place-the next week at the other's. I think this is a fair deal for the parents AND is more fair, and healthier for the child.

 

[snjmom]

Bullshit. The law cannot force the non-custodial parent to see their children, love their children, be involved in their childrens lives.

The only thing the law can enforce is the money.


Unless you are willing to allow the law to force all non-custodial parents to be decent parents. \

Good luck with that.

 

[AllieBaba]

Seems to me that we should, as a nation, be ensuring that joint custody of children is the standard, with primary custody only being given to one parent over another in exceptional circumstances. Children need both parents and both parents should be equally financially responsible. Not rocket science. Parents who refuse to support their kids should go to prison. Those with genuine financial problems, such as sudden unemployment or having a substantial cut in pay, should be assisted.

We really need to put the children first.

I agree 100%. I think a child needs a mother and a father figure growing up. Regardless of how the parents feel about each other-most of the time the mother is the best mother figure, and the father the best father figure. Unless one parent is unfit to be a parent (drug addict, child abuser), custody should be equal. One week at one parent's place-the next week at the other's. I think this is a fair deal for the parents AND is more fair, and healthier for the child.

who cares about fair when a kid is involved, and how the hell is bouncing a kid back and forth maniacally *healthier* for the kid? You have an odd idea of healthy.

 

[JFK_USA]

. it's better for kids when dad participates fully in their lives.

I agree with this as most people would - and it is a very common doctrine in today's News, but our laws turn that ideal into just words without substance.

This is because the separated parents (mostly fathers but some Moms) are subjugated to the Child Support laws that only require cash payments and the law turns the separated parent into a non-parent and just a source of cash.

It is hypocritical at best to claim the children need their parents (particularly need their Dad) but then demand and enforce cash collection Child Support laws which are inhuman and serve to break-up the family and alienates the parent(s) and turns many parents into criminals.

For the most part that cliche' as posted above is only meant to say the Dad must pay the order of Child Support and visit a couple times per month and otherwise to get lost in the process.

The Child Support and Custody laws do not bring the separated parent closer to their children as these laws are aggressively dividing and ruining the families.

I agree. I think it doesn't help. I know fathers who call their kids and the mom will "Ugh. Kid its your dad, answer the phone." In an angry tone. Causing the kid to have a negative perception of the dad. My Son's mother doesn't do that and calls me daddy when I call my son.

She is getting better, but she was very spiteful at the beginning. Its been a few years now, like I said, it gets better but its never 100% percent. It can't be. It never is. Sometimes we are very cool and open with each other. Other times, its very weird and we can't trust each other. Its hit and miss.

But like you said, I do see fathers very concerned with the money they have to put out. Alimony is the worse. I think that if the partner that makes the least amount of money should not be allowed to collect Alimony if they are the one that files for Divorce. Yeah thats a brilliant plan, guy who makes alot of money wife leaves him, takes the kids, and now has to pay child support AND Alimony. Boy thats a big punishment for someone who didn't choose that path.

Dads nowadays have to balance that line of supporting their child but yet having a separate life and the means to provide for their own roof. It causes strife. I mean I will go out and pay for whatever he needs, but giving her more money pisses me off.

 

[JP Cusick]

xxxx. The law cannot force the non-custodial parent to see their children, love their children, be involved in their childrens lives.

The only thing the law can enforce is the money.

Unless you are willing to allow the law to force all non-custodial parents to be decent parents. \

Good luck with that.

There is no need for such luck as there is no need for such "force".

We are not to be forcing anything onto parents or children or onto families, and it is the unneeded "force" which has caused parenting to be a crime with threats of ruin and smear by the force of law.

Everyone has heard the famous saying that - "it takes a village to raise a child" but that never meant for the village to exclude the parent(s) from its meaning. The village is to help the 2 parents to raise their children and that means to help and not to force.

The Divorce laws including Child Support and Custody are all based on the brute force of laws, and as such we have broken families and alienated children and marriage is no longer under God.

I dislike the popular perspective that money is its own justification because that ideal is destroying families all across the USA.