Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[Roudy]

Gotta be a muslim.

In Yemen? Most likely. Child marriage happens in many non-Islamic majority countries as well though (it is a big problem in parts of Southern Africa, and the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). It is also a large problem in India.

Child marriage is one of those nasty side effects of weak governmental institutions coupled with extreme poverty. It's horrible stuff.

You cannot emphasize this more.

Part of what government does is put into place mechanism to protect those that can't protect themselves.

Namely, children.

That said, this is unbelievably sad and ridiculously disgusting.

Child marriage was allowed in Iran when Islamists took over. It's not a "poor" country.

 

[Roudy]

1.) it's gavage

2.) I said that it was prevalent in Mauritania, which is a Muslim majority country And I mentioned its periodic use in Pakistan which is also a Muslim majority country, so I'm not sure why you're going on about your above quote. It seems pretty dishonest on your part.

Kindly do tell us again, What exactly WAS your point?

My point was to respond to the imagery of gavage that you brought up in your post.

No your point was to first whitewash the Islamic practice of child brides prevalent in Muslim countries by saying the following:

SJ. (referring to Omir): Gotta be a muslim.
Omir (like he doesn't know): In Yemen? Most likely. Child marriage happens in many non-Islamic majority countries as well though (it is a big problem in parts of Southern Africa, and the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). It is also a large problem in India.

Then Omir responded with this crap to my article about Muslim Child brides in Great Britain:

Roudy: It's even happening in Europe, where Muslims are a minority:

Muslim Child Brides in Britain

It is heartbreaking, even as it is unsurprising. In Britain, the authorities are now reporting the forced marriage of girls as young as nine years old on British soil. We are not talking about one case, but several, which take place under official protection. We are not speaking, then, about parents or “husbands” who are being charged with a criminal offense. The situation, in other words, is completely unacceptable and makes clear that we have a crying need for a new approach to these matters. Government must put its foot down – and powerfully so – so that there will be no doubt as to the way in which such grotesque crimes will be addressed.

First, when I say that the marriage of nine-year-old girls in today’s Britain (and the rest of the EU, for that matter) is unsurprising, my statement is based on my own 17 years of experience in the field of immigration: forms of assault based on tradition and religion – including child marriage, forced marriage, genital mutilation, so-called honor-related offenses such as rape and murder – have become established here as a result of immigration, mostly from Muslim countries. Instances of these offenses have been documented in countries such as Norway (where, to be sure, there have been no recorded cases of marriage to girls as young as nine, but where the marriage of an 11-year-old came to light in a TV documentary that I worked on as journalist; such cases have also been known in Sweden). The only phenomenon that has not been documented in Norway thus far is forced eating by girls before they are to be married off. I was told about this practice by feminists in Paris in 2003, and the phenomenon had been imported into France by immigrants, mostly from Mali. Girls are locked up and fed like geese before being married, because in their culture being fat is considered beautiful.

Omir (diverting topic): Luckily Gavage isn't very common anymore, and is largely found in Africa and every once in a while: Pakistan. It would also be more likely to spring up in France in Europe since the largest practicing country Mauritania is a former French colony.

A much more common concern today regarding the diet of women in the world is malnutrition and them not receiving as much food as male counterparts.

Ha ha ha. Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[Osomir]

No your point was to first whitewash the Islamic practice of child brides prevalent in Muslim countries

No, it was to address your mention of gavage. Not sure why you have such a fetish for assigning ulterior motives to posters, but you might want to get that complex looked at.

Omir (like he doesn't know): In Yemen? Most likely. Child marriage happens in many non-Islamic majority countries as well though (it is a big problem in parts of Southern Africa, and the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). It is also a large problem in India.

Right, because child marriage is a major problem all over the world and in many different religious majority countries. Looking at it simply in terms of religion rather ignores most cases of child marriage in the world. it is not a particularly strong statistical variable for explaining incidents of child marriage across regions.

It's why i listed more relevant causal variables in my other posts such as: poverty, weak governmental institutions, and the various issues that go along with lower rights for women. For the record the World Bank data on the issue agrees with me. I wrote my thesis on women's rights within economic development.

 

[Hossfly]

No your point was to first whitewash the Islamic practice of child brides prevalent in Muslim countries

No, it was to address your mention of gavage. Not sure why you have such a fetish for assigning ulterior motives to posters, but you might want to get that complex looked at.

Omir (like he doesn't know): In Yemen? Most likely. Child marriage happens in many non-Islamic majority countries as well though (it is a big problem in parts of Southern Africa, and the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). It is also a large problem in India.

Right, because child marriage is a major problem all over the world and in many different religious majority countries. Looking at it simply in terms of religion rather ignores most cases of child marriage in the world. it is not a particularly strong statistical variable for explaining incidents of child marriage across regions.

It's why i listed more relevant causal variables in my other posts such as: poverty, weak governmental institutions, and the various issues that go along with lower rights for women. For the record the World Bank data on the issue agrees with me. I wrote my thesis on women's rights within economic development.

Then, Miss Professor Osomir, perhaps you should travel throughout many countries of Europe and inform the Muslim parents that since they are not in dire poverty living in these countries and get benefits to help them, they should not be marrying their daughters off so young. In one of these countries (I believe England), young girls have been instructed to put spoons in their underwear so that alarms will go off at the airport when their parents are sending them back to their native country such as Pakistan to be married during school vacation (many to their cousins). This way the girls can be pulled aside and spoken to without their parents present. Can you imagine how helpful, Miss Osomir can be in the plight of these young girls who certainly do not want to be married so young? Trying to teach everyone what she learned in her classes is really not that productive.

 

[Roudy]

No your point was to first whitewash the Islamic practice of child brides prevalent in Muslim countries

No, it was to address your mention of gavage. Not sure why you have such a fetish for assigning ulterior motives to posters, but you might want to get that complex looked at.

Omir (like he doesn't know): In Yemen? Most likely. Child marriage happens in many non-Islamic majority countries as well though (it is a big problem in parts of Southern Africa, and the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). It is also a large problem in India.

Right, because child marriage is a major problem all over the world and in many different religious majority countries. Looking at it simply in terms of religion rather ignores most cases of child marriage in the world. it is not a particularly strong statistical variable for explaining incidents of child marriage across regions.

It's why i listed more relevant causal variables in my other posts such as: poverty, weak governmental institutions, and the various issues that go along with lower rights for women. For the record the World Bank data on the issue agrees with me. I wrote my thesis on women's rights within economic development.

Nobody is denying that is EXCLUSIVE, but...you conveniently skip over the fact that in the case of Islam religion has everything to do with it, because their prophet Mohammad at the age of 54 got engaged to a six year old and then married her at the age of 8 (tell me it ain't so, pedophile rapist for a prophet?), which is why marrying girls at the age of 8 or 9 is both legal in many Muslim countries, and acceptable culturally. Even in the West, where it is against the law they are doing it. In those cases economic situation has nothing to do with it.

You seem to have difficulty admitting this.

 

[Osomir]

Nobody is denying that is EXCLUSIVE

It isn't even a simple matter of exclusivity. Simply going "LOL Islam" ignores the vast differences in child marriage rates and marriage institutions across the Islamic world.

It's dishonest. Statistically speaking religion isn't a very robust explanatory variable for such practices, and once again, the World Bank data on the subject agrees with me.

but...you conveniently skip over the fact that in the case of Islam religion has everything to do with it, because their prophet Mohammad at the age of 54 got engaged to a six year old and then married her at the age of 8 (tell me it ain't so, pedophile rapist for a prophet?)

The only real reason to believe that is if you hold the hadiths from the Muslim and Bukhari collections to be infallible cannon. I don't, and none of the early biographies of Muhammad agree on Aisha's age. Once again you're allowing your hatred to make you intellectually dishonest.

which is why marrying girls at the age of 8 or 9 is both legal in many Muslim countries, and acceptable culturally.

That can be true when those hadiths are invoked as a basis to form legal ruling, but it isn't a constant across Islamic regions, nor is it a mandate of Islam nor does Islam have to diminish in order for Islamic countries to get rid of child marriage. You are setting up a false enemy to tilt, and in doing so are doing the child brides of the world no favors. In fact, it's down right selfish of you.

 

[Osomir]

Then, Miss Professor Osomir, perhaps you should travel throughout many countries of Europe and inform the Muslim parents that since they are not in dire poverty living in these countries and get benefits to help them, they should not be marrying their daughters off so young. In one of these countries (I believe England), young girls have been instructed to put spoons in their underwear so that alarms will go off at the airport when their parents are sending them back to their native country such as Pakistan to be married during school vacation (many to their cousins). This way the girls can be pulled aside and spoken to without their parents present. Can you imagine how helpful, Miss Osomir can be in the plight of these young girls who certainly do not want to be married so young? Trying to teach everyone what she learned in her classes is really not that productive.

Not sure what point it is you are trying to make, but cultural norms have long been sticky in the area of migration. We see that in women's issues all of the time, all over the world, and with all sorts of demographics. For example first generation Indian immigrants in the US still (statistically generally speaking) culturally favor male babies over female and will seek to have male children over female ones. Such proclivities diminish over time and successive generations. People don't instantaneously change when they change locations.

 

[syrenn]

Not sure what point it is you are trying to make, but cultural norms have long been sticky in the area of migration. We see that in women's issues all of the time, all over the world, and with all sorts of demographics. For example first generation Indian immigrants in the US still (statistically generally speaking) culturally favor male babies over female and will seek to have male children over female ones. Such proclivities diminish over time and successive generations. People don't instantaneously change when they change locations.

so again.... it is not about poverty or governments. Glad to see you agree.

it

is

about

men

and

their

dicks.

 

[Osomir]

so again.... it is not about poverty or governments. Glad to see you agree.

it

is

about

men

and

their

dicks.

And once again you do the women of the world a great disservice by ignoring the intricacies of their plight.

 

[toastman]

This is the most disgusting and vile thing I have ever read. The parents are just as guilty as the groom.

He doesn't even deserve to be called a groom, more like a rapist.

 

[boedicca]

This is the most disgusting and vile thing I have ever read. The parents are just as guilty as the groom.

He doesn't even deserve to be called a groom, more like a rapist.

Exactly like a rapist.

There is no way that an eight year old child consents to such treatment.

 

[syrenn]

so again.... it is not about poverty or governments. Glad to see you agree.

it

is

about

men

and

their

dicks.

And once again you do the women of the world a great disservice by ignoring the intricacies of their plight.

so do you by not admitting that muslims have serous issues with this plight....

 

[Indofred]

How common is child marriage in Yemen?

Too bloody common.
Their society see a girl as fair game from puberty but that's considered to be at 9 years old, dodgy at best and bloody criminal in my opinion.
However, weak laws and local custom overrides everything so girls are often married off at crazy young ages.
The same, just not quite as bad happens here but I've never seen a case of a girl less than 13 being married off.
The cause here isn't filthy men after kids (mostly) as the husband is usually little older than the wife, more the poverty that forces parents to get rid of kids as soon as possible.
I've seen several 13 to 15 year old girls get married to boys hardly ready to look after a family.
The upshot is, these new families produces kids that will get the same total lack of education so the cycle goes on.

Education is the key to this and many other problems in Indonesia and I suspect the same applied in Yemen.

Are said parents given monetary compensation for the bride?

In Yemen, I have no idea (I'd have to google) but in Indonesia, no.
The Groom's family pay for the wedding and all costs incurred out here including a gift of money to the bride, not her parents.

The idea of the gift is so she may set up a home as she likes but nothing is given to her family outside hospitality.
One note, the two families are then considered to be one. Communities here are very close and families stick together. When my wife talks about 'cousins', it may well be her grandfather's wife's brother's grandson.

 

[Roudy]

Nobody is denying that is EXCLUSIVE

It isn't even a simple matter of exclusivity. Simply going "LOL Islam" ignores the vast differences in child marriage rates and marriage institutions across the Islamic world.

It's dishonest. Statistically speaking religion isn't a very robust explanatory variable for such practices, and once again, the World Bank data on the subject agrees with me.

but...you conveniently skip over the fact that in the case of Islam religion has everything to do with it, because their prophet Mohammad at the age of 54 got engaged to a six year old and then married her at the age of 8 (tell me it ain't so, pedophile rapist for a prophet?)

The only real reason to believe that is if you hold the hadiths from the Muslim and Bukhari collections to be infallible cannon. I don't, and none of the early biographies of Muhammad agree on Aisha's age. Once again you're allowing your hatred to make you intellectually dishonest.

which is why marrying girls at the age of 8 or 9 is both legal in many Muslim countries, and acceptable culturally.

That can be true when those hadiths are invoked as a basis to form legal ruling, but it isn't a constant across Islamic regions, nor is it a mandate of Islam nor does Islam have to diminish in order for Islamic countries to get rid of child marriage. You are setting up a false enemy to tilt, and in doing so are doing the child brides of the world no favors. In fact, it's down right selfish of you.

Idiot it is not up to me and you, it is what Muslims believe, and they believe its acceptable because their prophet did so. These are all false comparisons and unrelated statistics in a futile attempt to whitewash obvious problems with Muslim culture, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with economics. It's just plain old pigheaded religious based chauvinism promoted by Islam since the 7th century.

I would use that "thesis" on the plight of women as toilet paper. Phony baloney.

 

[Osomir]

so do you by not admitting that muslims have serous issues with this plight....

I think that humans have a serious issue with this plight, and find it shallow and counter productive to look at only microcosms of the issue when addressing it

 

[Osomir]

Idiot it is not up to me and you, it is what Muslims believe, and they believe its acceptable because their prophet did so. These are all false comparisons and unrelated statistics in a futile attempt to whitewash obvious problems with Muslim culture, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with economics. It's just plain old pigheaded religious based chauvinism promoted by Islam since the 7th century.

I would use that "thesis" on the plight of women as toilet paper. Phony baloney.

If Islam is the main factor for child marriage then how do you explain the asymmetries in prevalence rates across Islamic populations?

And how do you explain the widespread practice of child marriage within non-Islamic populations?

As a side note, child marriage predates Islam.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Disgusting.
There is no way in this world that an 8 year old child should have sexual contact of any sort.
This bastard bloke should have his dick removed with a blunt saw.

Yeah, Muhammad waited until Aisha turned 9.....

 

[Osomir]

Disgusting.
There is no way in this world that an 8 year old child should have sexual contact of any sort.
This bastard bloke should have his dick removed with a blunt saw.

Yeah, Muhammad waited until Aisha turned 9.....

Only if you hold the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari to be cannon. Are you secretly a Sunni Muslim?

 

[Hossfly]

Then, Miss Professor Osomir, perhaps you should travel throughout many countries of Europe and inform the Muslim parents that since they are not in dire poverty living in these countries and get benefits to help them, they should not be marrying their daughters off so young. In one of these countries (I believe England), young girls have been instructed to put spoons in their underwear so that alarms will go off at the airport when their parents are sending them back to their native country such as Pakistan to be married during school vacation (many to their cousins). This way the girls can be pulled aside and spoken to without their parents present. Can you imagine how helpful, Miss Osomir can be in the plight of these young girls who certainly do not want to be married so young? Trying to teach everyone what she learned in her classes is really not that productive.

Not sure what point it is you are trying to make, but cultural norms have long been sticky in the area of migration. We see that in women's issues all of the time, all over the world, and with all sorts of demographics. For example first generation Indian immigrants in the US still (statistically generally speaking) culturally favor male babies over female and will seek to have male children over female ones. Such proclivities diminish over time and successive generations. People don't instantaneously change when they change locations.

Why, Miss Osimir, you first wanted us to believe that the marrying of young girls was because of poverty, now you are saying it is part of the culture (since of course when these people migrate to the Western world they do not starve). It is very nice that you are an educated young Muslim woman and had the opportunity to get ahead in your studies (although we don't know if you are allowed to work), but too many young girls are being forced into marriages they do not want or are not ready for. As one Muslim cleric in Nigeria has said (except he seems to close his eyes to his fellow Muslims consummating the marriage before it is time)........
On the controversial Muslim marriage to girls, he said no amount of blackmail would intimidate Muslims into doing the wrong thing on the controversial early marriage to girls, as Islam did not fix any age for marriage, adding that a married girl does not mean that the husband would be having sexual intercourse with the bride, until she reaches puberty, as witnessed with the marriage of Prophet Muhammad to Nana Aisha.

 

[Roudy]

Disgusting.
There is no way in this world that an 8 year old child should have sexual contact of any sort.
This bastard bloke should have his dick removed with a blunt saw.

Yeah, Muhammad waited until Aisha turned 9.....

Only if you hold the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari to be cannon. Are you secretly a Sunni Muslim?

Apparently that's what Muslims believe. And use it as their justification and model for marrying 8 or 9 years olds.

For some reason Omir has a hard time admitting anything negative abut Muslims or Islam. I wonder why.