Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"And I am still waiting for a cite to that Yemeni decree that allegedly forces conversions to Islam on Jewish children in the event a child becomes an orphan."

L'il sherrithing, I has a sad about your extreme lack of comprehension. The AUTHOR of the book you quoted gave the citation you are insisting upon: that was at the very end of his footnote.

The author cites a book, there is no reference to a Yemeni Statute. And there is no link to the book, so I have no idea how to evaluate the claim. I have no access to that book. A decree addresses an alleged law.

 

[MHunterB]

"This phrase "unequivocally reject child abuse by way of child marriage", this demand you seem to desire to judgmentally place on posters here, I have not heard you say you yourself unequivocally reject child abuse by way of child marriage. And what does that even mean, this demand you place on posters here other than yourself? Who defines what child marriage is? Does childhood end at puberty, at 16, at 17, at 18, at 19, at 20, at 21? Do you define child marriage for all of us here, for everyone in every nation? Why must I judge and condemn and demonize people at your command? I refuse to do this.

Child marriage has occurred in Israel, among Jews. It has occurred in the US, lawfully and unlawfully, forced and voluntary, look at Elizabeth Smart , among Christians, among Mormons, Edgar Allen Poe was said to have married his 13 year old cousin.

Who makes you the judge of morality for all?
I do not approve of child marriages, or encourage the practice, but what I see is that the problem occurs within certain cultures and I see it as a struggle for the people inside those individual cultures to address. We outside of these societies encountering these issues can encourage the people there to advocate for rights for young girls women and try to assist them in obtaining rights, but it is their struggle. What I see you as doing is demonizing the people in these societies because of the human rights struggles they are engaged in.

I do not have to condemn and demonize people , like you do. I refuse to be like you. "


The lies and hypocrisy of the sherrithing should be obvious from this post made about 3PM yesterday, right here.

Her continual attempts to divert the discussion into yet another virulent bout of Jew-hating and slander belie her grandiose words about refusing to demonize others.

This is, it seems to me, exactly the behavior Jesus decried in his words against 'hypocrite Pharisees'...... Sherri flounces about slamming others for 'demonizing other cultures' - and then sets about demonizing the whole of Judaism in ways that'd make a Hitler proud.

 

[MHunterB]

"And I am still waiting for a cite to that Yemeni decree that allegedly forces conversions to Islam on Jewish children in the event a child becomes an orphan."

L'il sherrithing, I has a sad about your extreme lack of comprehension. The AUTHOR of the book you quoted gave the citation you are insisting upon: that was at the very end of his footnote.

The author cites a book, there is no reference to a Yemeni Statute. And there is no link to the book, so I have no idea how to evaluate the claim. I have no access to that book. A decree addresses an alleged law.

https://www.google.com/#q=Yemeni+decree+of+forced+conversion+to+Islam+for+orphans

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Orphans' Decree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sure we're all so sorry that the sherriliar's Internet is broken and she's unable to Google.....

 

[Roudy]

Child marriage is cultural and it is the culture present where it is practiced that leads to the practice.

There is no law forcing child marriage on people.

That is why in countries where it is common, you see the practice among people of different religions in those countries. Like Yemen, we have seen Muslims and Jews arrange child marriages for their children.

If it's cultural why was it not practiced in Iran during the Shah's time, but when Islamists took over, it became totally legal and acceptable?

An inconvenient truth.

The Shah was a dictator and had the ability to force social change on a medievil culture in much the same way the British ended the practice of sati in India. That didn't necessarily stop it in the provinces and rural districts where it most likely continued quietly. As to why it resurfaced - because Iranian Islamists represent the most fundamentalist cult of Islam and child marriage is in accordance with that fundamentalist approach.

Yes, and when the Islamists came to power they allowed it, and cited Islamic reasons for it. Not "cultural". You never get it right. Child marriage was never a "cultural thing" before the Shah.

 

[MHunterB]

From the Wiki article:

The Orphans' Decree was introduced in Yemen and obligated the Zaydi state to take under its protection and to educate in Islamic ways any dhimmi (i.e. non-Muslim) child whose parents had died when he or she was a minor. First introduced or revived in the 17th century,[1] the Orphans' Decree was ignored during Ottoman rule (1872–1918), but was observed during the period of Imam Yahya (1918–1948).[2] According to one source, the decree has "no parallel in other countries".[3]

Although forced conversion is not widely recognized under Islamic laws, historian and Arabist Shelomo Dov Goitein believes that a forced conversion of orphans could have been justified by the revelation attributed to Muhammad that states: "Every person is born to the natural religion [Islam], and only his parents make a Jew or a Christian out of him." [1]

 

[irosie91]

The photo below shows two little girls, recent immigrants from Yemen to Israel. The girl on the left is said to be married, the girl on the right is not. They look about age 8 or 9.

"The Yemenite girl was often engaged to be married before she was twelve years old, and she was not able to choose her future husband. When young children were orphaned, there was a danger that the Yemenis might force their conversion to Islam and remove them from the Jewish community. Thus, marriages of very young people were often arranged to prevent this tragedy. However, it appears that young girls lived with their husbands only after they matured. Marriage to older men was not unknown, and neither was polygamy. The major circumstance leading to polygamy was the practice of*levirate marriage*(a religious obligation to marry the wife of a brother who died without issue), which was encouraged among Yemenite Jews even into the twentieth century. Following her wedding, the bride moved to her mother-in-law’s house where she joined the pool of female workers, continuing the same arduous tasks that she had been trained for by her own mother."

Yemen and the Yishuv | Jewish Women's Archive

But it is interesting reading also how the Jews of Yemen followed the practice of levirate marriage, that is discussed in the Mishnah verses I cited earlier, in addition to having their daughters enter into child marriages.

Was it culture or religion that primarily explained child marriage among the Jews of Yemen?

I think it was primarily culture, but religion seems to have played a role, too.

Culture and religion are certainly intertwined and these regions are very tribal and not too different I would guess, from the cultures of biblical times. Those are interesting articles Sherri - good post.

The married girl in the picture is 14 years old and she is not only married----she has
an infant (well----the picture is a bit old-----her infant is probably a teenager now)

if you think she looks younger than her 14 years----you should have seen the picture of
her little husband. Your analysis is -----not entirely idiotic -----but not quite right.
Jews and muslims in Yemen barely look at each other------they live VERY SEPARATE
lives I like to ask very SPECIFIC QUESTIONS -----like "WERE YOU EVER A VISITOR
IN THE HOME OF A MUSLIM"??????

for your interest------it is a fact that yemenite jews do look YOUNGER than their years---
A STORY FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT-----decades ago I lived in a two family house---
the ---other people there were a Yemenite jewish couple with two babies. The
man almost 30----the lady past 25. ------one day the laughing husband told
this story------a neighbor greeted him and commented on his lovely "THREE
CHILDREN" He held up and asked-----"my three children"? "yes" said
the neighbor-----the two little ones and your big daughter" "my big daughter"?
Uhm----how old does she look?" "oh she seems to be about ten"

well she was a bit shorter than even me. -----but age ten was the
distant past for her

Yemenite jews born in Yemen---tend to be short---and slender---
until they start eating----elsewhere. Another story-----Hubby's
niece at her wedding------both parents yemenite----mother petite---
probably max 5' 2" ---father ---doll like----maybe 5' 4"----120 lbs
bride (their daughter) healthy 5' 8"

The doll like father's comment of the day was "my daughter gets her beauty
from her mother and her HEIGHT from me"

 

[Hollie]

The*Talmud*(/ˈtɑːlmʊd,*-məd,*ˈtæl-/;*Hebrew:*תַּלְמוּד*talmūd"instruction, learning", from a*root*lmd*"teach, study") is a central text of Rabbinic*Judaism. It is also traditionally referred to as*Shas*(ש״&#1505, aHebrew*abbreviation of*shisha sedarim, the "six orders". The Talmud has two components. The first part is the*Mishnah*(Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), the written compendium of Judaism's*Oral Torah*(Torah meaning "Instruction", "Teaching" in Hebrew). The second part is theGemara*(c. 500 CE), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related*Tannaiticwritings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the*Jewish Bible.


Talmud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And one more time, the story in the OP did not happen. You want to claim it happened, you prove it.

Sherry uses yet another thread to promote her insensate Jew hatreds

The islamist apologists continue to deflect accepting responsibility for what islamism allows in terms of child abuse. There are definite clues that there will be continuing abuse of female children in the Islamic Middle East as the very nature of islamist societies establish “governments” that are based upon religious affiliation to a 7th century Arab warlord. Let’s not forget, radical and fundamentalist Islam is easily spread around this region because ideologically these folks believe that 1.) Their religion is right (and all religions believe this, but Judaism doesn’t export and Christianity long ago stopped using Crusades and genocide to export– Islam is still 7 th century in this regard) and 2.) Islamic ideology has achieved only the ability to keep its adherents shackled to third-world status.

The thread addresses a made up story about a child marriage in Yemen that we have seen no evidence to support it even happened.

Zionists, like you, have been using this story of unfortunate victims of child marriages in Yemen to attack Muslims and Islam.

A little frothy there, Sherry. There are legitimate concerns regarding Islamic ideology and how it is practiced in Islamic countries. There are allowances made for sexual abuse of female children (child marriage), because it is in concert with the "perfect example for humanity. Moslems' religious perspectives are inclusive of their behavior. They are an integration of their politics and their religions and the traditions of Muhammud (swish).

You simply can’t dismiss the religious connotations to their behavior. I incorporate them (and do so fairly), because the religions' inventor has established himself as the model for humanity.

This is not about Islam, it is about the horrible plight of young children forced into marriages by customs in mostly poor countries like Yemen.

It certainly is about Islam. Clearly, people are an incorporation of their religious beliefs and practices. People get their religious beliefs, in this case, Islam, from somewhere. In this case, that “somewhere” is the Koran and the example set by the religions inventor.

This is not about Jews.

You have attempted to make it about Judaism.

Get over yourself

.
Give me a moment....

Ok. I'm over myself.

Everything is not about Jews and demonizing Muslims.

It shouldn't be. But in your case, your OCD-like fascination with taking every opportunity to vilify Judaism has put you in a very dark place I'm happy not to be in.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

From the Wiki article:

The Orphans' Decree was introduced in Yemen and obligated the Zaydi state to take under its protection and to educate in Islamic ways any dhimmi (i.e. non-Muslim) child whose parents had died when he or she was a minor. First introduced or revived in the 17th century,[1] the Orphans' Decree was ignored during Ottoman rule (1872–1918), but was observed during the period of Imam Yahya (1918–1948).[2] According to one source, the decree has "no parallel in other countries".[3]

Although forced conversion is not widely recognized under Islamic laws, historian and Arabist Shelomo Dov Goitein believes that a forced conversion of orphans could have been justified by the revelation attributed to Muhammad that states: "Every person is born to the natural religion [Islam], and only his parents make a Jew or a Christian out of him." [1]

You know what, a law in effect from 1918 to 1948 really does not add much to explaining a custom of child marriages in Yemen that goes back in time hundreds of years.

The fact is child marriages in Yemen occur and have been embraced by people there of different religions and the explanation for it is that it is cultural to Yemen society.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Sherry uses yet another thread to promote her insensate Jew hatreds

The islamist apologists continue to deflect accepting responsibility for what islamism allows in terms of child abuse. There are definite clues that there will be continuing abuse of female children in the Islamic Middle East as the very nature of islamist societies establish “governments” that are based upon religious affiliation to a 7th century Arab warlord. Let’s not forget, radical and fundamentalist Islam is easily spread around this region because ideologically these folks believe that 1.) Their religion is right (and all religions believe this, but Judaism doesn’t export and Christianity long ago stopped using Crusades and genocide to export– Islam is still 7 th century in this regard) and 2.) Islamic ideology has achieved only the ability to keep its adherents shackled to third-world status.

A little frothy there, Sherry. There are legitimate concerns regarding Islamic ideology and how it is practiced in Islamic countries. There are allowances made for sexual abuse of female children (child marriage), because it is in concert with the "perfect example for humanity. Moslems' religious perspectives are inclusive of their behavior. They are an integration of their politics and their religions and the traditions of Muhammud (swish).

You simply can’t dismiss the religious connotations to their behavior. I incorporate them (and do so fairly), because the religions' inventor has established himself as the model for humanity.



It certainly is about Islam. Clearly, people are an incorporation of their religious beliefs and practices. People get their religious beliefs, in this case, Islam, from somewhere. In this case, that “somewhere” is the Koran and the example set by the religions inventor.



You have attempted to make it about Judaism.



.
Give me a moment....

Ok. I'm over myself.

Everything is not about Jews and demonizing Muslims.

It shouldn't be. But in your case, your OCD-like fascination with taking every opportunity to vilify Judaism has put you in a very dark place I'm happy not to be in.

I refuse to turn the misfortunes of children in Yemen into a Muslim Hate Fest.

What is happening in Yemen with child marriages is not about Islam.

It is about a human rights abuse primarily hurting young girls there.

I only brought up practices of nonMuslims outside Yemen with respect to child marriages to point out the Hypocrisy of posters in seeking to blame a religion, Islam, for child marriages. And in that context, I discussed child marriages among Mormons in America and among Jews in Israel.

 

[Hollie]

A little frothy there, Sherry. There are legitimate concerns regarding Islamic ideology and how it is practiced in Islamic countries. There are allowances made for sexual abuse of female children (child marriage), because it is in concert with the "perfect example for humanity. Moslems' religious perspectives are inclusive of their behavior. They are an integration of their politics and their religions and the traditions of Muhammud (swish).

You simply can’t dismiss the religious connotations to their behavior. I incorporate them (and do so fairly), because the religions' inventor has established himself as the model for humanity.



It certainly is about Islam. Clearly, people are an incorporation of their religious beliefs and practices. People get their religious beliefs, in this case, Islam, from somewhere. In this case, that “somewhere” is the Koran and the example set by the religions inventor.



You have attempted to make it about Judaism.



.
Give me a moment....

Ok. I'm over myself.




It shouldn't be. But in your case, your OCD-like fascination with taking every opportunity to vilify Judaism has put you in a very dark place I'm happy not to be in.

I refuse to turn the misfortunes of children in Yemen into a Muslim Hate Fest.

What is happening in Yemen with child marriages is not about Islam.

It is about a human rights abuse primarily hurting young girls there.

As you do in every thread you enter, you use it as a vehicle to promote your Jew-hating attitudes... just as you did in this thread.

 

[Roudy]

So your claim is, the prevalence of child marriages in Muslim countries and societies (especially traditional, religious ones), has NOTHING to do with Islam, or the fact that Mohammad married a 9 year old?

Did you ask your Iranian friends why child marriage was allowed in Iran after the Islamists took over? Was it because the parents "needed the money"? <LOL>

 

[MHunterB]

Iranian Women and Girls - Victims of Exploitation and Violence, Making the Harm Visible, Global Sexual Exploitation of Women and Girls, Speaking Out and Providing Services

Here is an article discussing the situation of women in Iran under the mullahs.

And here is another on 'age of marriage' in Iran:
Iran moves to legalize marriage for girls under 10 years old

So the idea of having girls as young as 9 married off certainly appears to be given serious consideration by at least one member of Iran's legislature...

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I refuse to turn the misfortunes of children in Yemen into a Muslim Hate Fest.

What is happening in Yemen with child marriages is not about Islam.

It is about a human rights abuse primarily hurting young girls there.

As you do in every thread you enter, you use it as a vehicle to promote your Jew-hating attitudes... just as you did in this thread.

The thread is not about Jews, it is about child marriage in Yemen.

Jimmy Carter and the Elders have been advocating against child marriages globally for many years now.

Child marriages are a problem in many developing countries.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

So your claim is, the prevalence of child marriages in Muslim countries and societies (especially traditional, religious ones), has NOTHING to do with Islam, or the fact that Mohammad married a 9 year old?

Did you ask your Iranian friends why child marriage was allowed in Iran after the Islamists took over? Was it because the parents "needed the money"? <LOL>

That is right, except I acknowledge conservative religious views may contribute to it, conservatism with respect to Islam, conservatism with respect to Hinduism, conservatism with respect to Christianity, conservatism with respect to Judaism.


Child marriages in Iran were an occurence before and after the Revolution.

 

[Hossfly]

As you do in every thread you enter, you use it as a vehicle to promote your Jew-hating attitudes... just as you did in this thread.

The thread is not about Jews, it is about child marriage in Yemen.

Jimmy Carter and the Elders have been advocating against child marriages globally for many years now.

Child marriages are a problem in many developing countries.

Yep, these countries have been developing over 1400 years and can't seem to make it out of the 7th century. A pity.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Pair Fundamentalism with religion in any society and you likely will see increased incidents of child marriages in some segments of that society, you see that even in countries where child marriages are illegal, to include the US and Israel.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Ruby Jessop was just 14-years-old when she was*deemed 'sexually mature' by polygamous sect leader Warren Jeffs and*forced to marry her second cousin and step-brother and have sex with different men.She was held against her will at*the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints*for the next 12 years, in which time she bore six children and lived under the iron fist of the pervert leader.Ruby Jessop, now 26, managed to escape from the sick and twisted world of Warren Jeffs last month and has now been granted temporary custody of the children aged from two to ten, who were being held 'hostage' by the sect, her sister said.

Read more:*Ruby Jessop: The incredible story of child bride who escaped Warren Jeffs' polygamous sect | Mail Online us:*@MailOnline on Twitter*|*DailyMail on Facebook

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

CNN airs special on Extremists in All 3 major religions!

by*IRFAN*on*NOVEMBER 2, 2007

Please send a Thank You note to CNN for airing a special report by Christiane Amanpour called &#8220;God&#8217;s Warriors&#8221; which is a 3 part special about religious extremists, fanatics and fundamentalists in all 3 major religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam). I did watch the special on Islam, which was fairly balanced, and had seen parts of the one on Christianity, which was interesting. I had missed the one on Judaism, but was able to watch it last night as it was re-played (it originally aired back in August) and it was quite refreshing to see an expose on Jewish extremism and fundamentalism both here in the U.S. as well as in Israel, which was shown on mainstream U.S. media!They Interviewed fundamentalist Jewish settlers who are threaten Palestinians and constantly build on occupied land, in defiance of International Law. They interviewed Jewish Extremists and Terrorists who have planted bombs and killed innocent Palestianian children and families.Amanpour also interviewed several of the top ranking American Jewish Lobbyists, former President Jimmy Carter and other experts who have witnessed the great influence and pressure that the Jewish and Christian Zionist lobbyists put on the U.S. Congress and our leaders in support of Israel, and do not allow any kind of debate or questioning in U.S. Foreign Policy in the Middle East (they even showed footage of how the Jewish Lobby in the U.S. was able to put pressure on former President Bush Sr., who unsuccessfully tried to stop the illegal settlements, by putting a condition on loans to Israel, which they were able to stop from happening!)


CNN airs special on Extremists in All 3 major religions! | Media and Islam

 

[Coyote]

If it's cultural why was it not practiced in Iran during the Shah's time, but when Islamists took over, it became totally legal and acceptable?

An inconvenient truth.

The Shah was a dictator and had the ability to force social change on a medievil culture in much the same way the British ended the practice of sati in India. That didn't necessarily stop it in the provinces and rural districts where it most likely continued quietly. As to why it resurfaced - because Iranian Islamists represent the most fundamentalist cult of Islam and child marriage is in accordance with that fundamentalist approach.

Yes, and when the Islamists came to power they allowed it, and cited Islamic reasons for it. Not "cultural". You never get it right. Child marriage was never a "cultural thing" before the Shah.

Really? Care to support that statement? I suspect child marriages pre-date Islam in Persia.

 

[MHunterB]

From the Wiki article:

The Orphans' Decree was introduced in Yemen and obligated the Zaydi state to take under its protection and to educate in Islamic ways any dhimmi (i.e. non-Muslim) child whose parents had died when he or she was a minor. First introduced or revived in the 17th century,[1] the Orphans' Decree was ignored during Ottoman rule (1872&#8211;1918), but was observed during the period of Imam Yahya (1918&#8211;1948).[2] According to one source, the decree has "no parallel in other countries".[3]

Although forced conversion is not widely recognized under Islamic laws, historian and Arabist Shelomo Dov Goitein believes that a forced conversion of orphans could have been justified by the revelation attributed to Muhammad that states: "Every person is born to the natural religion [Islam], and only his parents make a Jew or a Christian out of him." [1]

You know what, a law in effect from 1918 to 1948 really does not add much to explaining a custom of child marriages in Yemen that goes back in time hundreds of years.

The fact is child marriages in Yemen occur and have been embraced by people there of different religions and the explanation for it is that it is cultural to Yemen society.

You know what, that reading comprehension problem of yours is getting a lot worse. The article clearly states this law was in effect from the 1600's on - with the exception of the Ottoman hegemony.

Post-1948, Yemen has been ruled by whom, exactly? An exceedingly weak and ineffective 'government' - and many tribal warlords (like Somalia), who each enforce their version of 'shari'a' as the law. For those who've forgotten - ALL human activity except a few 'survival reflexes' is due to culture. INCLUDING RELIGION.

The fact is that sherriKKKins is an ignorant lying hypocrite who is trying to pontificate about 'culture' when she has no idea what any of the facts are.

She's so in bondage to her bigotry, that takes precedence for her over any author, any number of reports, any amount of first-hand knowledge or experience.

I'm beginning to think the only knowledge sherriKKKins has of 'culture' is her athlete's foot fungus.