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And of course those Guardsmen just fired for no reason at all right?
That is correct, rgs.
They fired for no reason at all or at very least they were ordered to fire for no reason at all. Nonetheless, 4 Dead In Ohio. For No Reason At All.
You would be wrong. But then I already knew that. The Guardsmen fired because of protestors throwing things at them and because their Officer was a poor leader. They did not just load up and fire for the fun of it. Protestors put them in a position where the poorly trained unit reacted with deadly force. There is also reasonable stories of them thinking they were fired on.
Personally I have always wondered why people are surprised when they go about throwing rocks, bottles and other items at armed men with live ammo and those men open fire. Kind of like going into a pen with a lion and prodding it over and over with a stick and then screaming for help when the lion attacks you.
Further the Guardsmen were on the campus because of violent protests. They did not wake up that morning and call all their buddies, drive down to the local National Guard armory draw weapons and ammunition and go on a hunting expedition at Kent State.
you two can argue over what happened, but i thought i would put a general search into google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=what+happened+at+kent+state?
Been there and done that, martin.
How about debating the goddamned facts and keeping your juvenile research to yourself?
Kent State? When the Ohio National Guard shot four protesters dead?
When protesters refused to obey orders to disperse and began throwing rocks and bottles and National Guardsmen armed with rifles.
Yeah, four of them got shot dead. College students ... supposed to be brighter than the average joe, attacking a military force armed with firearms using rocks and bottles. Sheer genius.
I'm not saying anyone should have been shot, nor killed. I'm saying the protesters created the evironment that brought about the conclusion. A tragic ending does not negate their role in causing the situation to begin with.
I would disagree with that. War protesters have been historically as violent as the violence they are protesting. Goes to that whole hypocrisy thing.
Well damn, bottles and rocks are just as violent as the Vietnam war. You were so right in saying the peace rallies are as violent as the wars themselves.
Gunny, care to retract your previous statement?
When protesters refused to obey orders to disperse and began throwing rocks and bottles and National Guardsmen armed with rifles.
Yeah, four of them got shot dead. College students ... supposed to be brighter than the average joe, attacking a military force armed with firearms using rocks and bottles. Sheer genius.
I'm not saying anyone should have been shot, nor killed. I'm saying the protesters created the evironment that brought about the conclusion. A tragic ending does not negate their role in causing the situation to begin with.
That is correct, rgs.
They fired for no reason at all or at very least they were ordered to fire for no reason at all. Nonetheless, 4 Dead In Ohio. For No Reason At All.
The order was never given to fire. No one has ever been identified to my knowledge as being he who fired first, nor as having given the order.
But if you think it was for no reason, you obviously have never been hit in the head with a fist-sized rock or a bottle.
The students disobedience of the rules is the root cause of the final result. The dean said no and they went on a rampage anyway. Theyu were ordered to disperse and refused. Everything that followed was because of THAT.
I'm not downplaying the tragedy of four students losing their lives, but neither am I willing to completely negate the fact that they themselves were the cause of it.
No. They weren't. The people fired upon weren't a danger to the national guard. What happened was that untrained guardsmen with too much firepower got scared and fired their weapons on kids who had every right to protest.
By the by, it appears that it wasn't rocks being thrown at the time of the shooting, but they were throwing back the gas canisters that were being fired at them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
No. They weren't. The people fired upon weren't a danger to the national guard. What happened was that untrained guardsmen with too much firepower got scared and fired their weapons on kids who had every right to protest.
By the by, it appears that it wasn't rocks being thrown at the time of the shooting, but they were throwing back the gas canisters that were being fired at them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
I remember this clearly. I remember thinking, who was the bloody idiot who put soldiers (military mind-set) into a public order situation and gave them live ammunition.
Soldiers aren't police officers. Cops are trained to do a job in a certain manner. The military are trained to do their job in a certain manner. The two jobs are totally different. These blokes were given live ammo. Live ammo. Hello?
...The reader, B., works at the Port of Olympia. Heres what he witnessed:
I work at the port, and have observed some truly mind boggling events unfold, but the most astonishing was the use of children as human shields. The attached pictures were taken on 11/9/07; the night military equipment was first blocked from leaving the port. The Olympia Police Department essentially abandoned any effort to remove the protesters out of fear that a child would be harmed in their efforts to enforce the law. The mother of these children apparently had no such concern.
After the military convoy was forced to retreat, a victory celebration ensued, with chanting dancing, etc. I was horrified to watch as the woman in the attached photograph, distracted by events, allowed her infant to fall from her lap and land, face first on the pavement. The second photo shows her retrieving the crying baby as her other two children, dressed as terrorists look on.
This situation, and another two days later, when dozens of college aged girls were arrayed in rows with arms linked to block the road, showed a deliberate effort to use the same tactics as the terrorist savages who manipulate us, knowing that decent people cannot abide putting innocents in harms way. And, while the police were dragging the females away, under the glare of the medias cameras, the males were establishing rolling blockades; throwing rocks at police and military vehicles; breaking windows, etc.
The whole event had the flavor of a huge mob of children playing some updated version of Cowboys and Indians with live ammo.
He passes along one more item, giving you a glimpse at the moonbattery at left-wing Evergreen State College, which is coddling the thugs obstructing military shipments. B. writes, This state-funded institution, once a Liberal Arts College, has been subverted to the extent that it has become a regional center for the promotion of anti-social behavior of every imaginable variety. The faculty and facilities of TESC have been pivotal in encouraging the lawlessness overtaking the streets of Olympia. Witness the astonishing e-mail below, inviting rock-throwing thugs to a therapeutic debriefing to help them process traumatic experiences. State funded!:
From: Johnson, LeslieSome of these people most certainly do need mental health counseling. Just not the kind Evergreen State College is giving them
Sent: Wed 11/14/07 13:03
To: All Staff & Faculty DL
Subject: FW: Port demonstration Debrief with Counseling Center staff
Original Message
From: Johnson, Leslie
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:15 PM
To: Gaetz, Gloria
Subject: Port demonstration Debrief with Counseling Center staff
The Counseling Center will be holding a debriefing specifically for TESC students who have been involved The Olympia Port war protest.
The purpose of the debriefing is to provide emotional support and help students process traumatic experiences. This will be a therapeutic setting and as such no media will be present or allowed. If you are aware of a student who was involved in the protest and is having difficulty coping with or processing this experience please encourage them to attend this therapeutic debriefing.
When: Thursday Nov. 15
Time: 6- 8 p.m.
Where: CAB room 108
Leslie Johnson, MSW
Mental Health Therapist
TESC Counseling Center
Ext. 6802
I'm assuming this conversation has some ties to Kent State. Is there any connection with this?
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/1...man-shield-as-anarchist-kiddie-shields-watch/
The people who were hit may not have presented a danger to the national guard, but the rioting, violent students as a whole DID.
As far as what was thrown goes, it depends on who you listen to. Not that it really matters. Have to use the common sense rule here ... who in their right mind throws ANYTHING and troops armed with rifles without understanding troops with rifles can shoot you dead as a result? And these are college kids? Kind of makes one wonder what exactly is taught to these "geniuses."
IMO, I'd say they, and we as a Nation, were VERY lucky those were National Guardsmen and NOT Marines or Airborne out there. Four wouldn't come close.
