emilynghiem
Constitutionalist / Universalist
This is a fun challenge to Boss who seems to hold individuals responsible for electing members of Congress as enough to check the VOTES that Congress delivers on federal laws.
I argued that corporate interests had unequal influence and pull, so that once the damage is done to taxpayers in favor of corporate interests, then this requires more corrections than single individuals can pursue. It requires federal lawsuits that require corporate level lawyers and entities such as Hobby Lobby to challenge, where individuals saying NO to ACA mandates get run over and kicked out of court unanswered and unrepresented.
I argue this is not equal, between the influence of citizens vs. corporate interests with COLLECTIVE resources and influence on govt officials, unequal to the individual citizen.
Since Boss keeps insisting individual citizens are responsible for electing Congress, and thus the votes these reps produce, I want to challenge Boss to answer WHO is responsible for fixing damages by federal decisions made in favor of corporations?
EX:
A. Headwaters Forest in CA was gutted by MAXXAM Corporation
who pays for that
1. taxpayers who already bailed out est. 1.6 billion in junk bonds and interest for MAXXAM to buy Pacific Lumber and the land holdings through a hostile takeover, crash the company to raid the pension funds and clearcut the forest, etc.
and who already paid an addition 500 million or so to buy out parts of the forest
2. the "individuals" and shareholders who ran MAXXAM before it went bankrupt and had to hand over remaining land after a contested court battle over this
3. the people in government who made the financial and legal decisions to issue junk bonds that failed
at taxpayer expense
Who pays for the damage to Headwaters Forest and the restoration work to the ecosystems
and endangered species. Do taxpayers have to pay for this since we elected officials who abused
govt this way?
My answer: the people should pressure the govt to go after the wrongdoers.
and either the actual wrongdoers who profited off the destruction should pay the TRUE COST
of that profit by restoring the damage done to make all that money
OR the taxpayers who pay for this restoration costs should get credit for the loans
and investment and possibly hold the Forest land and programs as COLLATERAL on the debts bailed out
So whoever takes responsibility gets ownership of the land and programs.
but I say NO to govt and corporations controlling it without taking responsibility for the full cost.
that's like giving a negligent abusive parent custody of kid, who isn't feeding that kid but
starving and damaging that poor kid to the point of dying. Either fix it or give up custody of that kid.
But NO to paying the abusive parent to abuse kids and never be held accountable.
B. ACA mandates that favor corporate insurance companies and impose
costs and penalties on individual citizens who didn't CONSENT to this contract
Who should pay for the 24 billion cost of the federal shutdown over contested budget issues with ACA
1. the Congress reps and President and Justices who votes FOR and SIGNED this ACA
though it was contested by half the nation whose beliefs were violated and creeds were discriminated against
2. the corporations who benefited and should pay back the money or else whoever
SUPPORTS ACA should pay the collective costs of funding and making it work
3. the taxpayers should foot the bill since we are the ones who elected the Congress members
and President
again my answer is that taxpayers should hold parties and govt leaders responsible for
recognizing right to health care is a belief similar to right to life, and either treat creeds with
equal weight and respect, or don't pass either one through govt laws where it is biased
toward one and discriminates against the other. or this is unconstitutional violation of equal protections.
I hold that the members of Congress and parties who pushed for the ACA should take responsibility
for paying back costs and for funding the mandates as optional/voluntary;
while opponents are equally required to pay back costs of similar unconstitutional violations,
including contested Iraq War contracts at taxpayer expense, and pay for health care reforms
that those people and parties believe in.
And any corporations that made money off the business agreements in ACA without consent
of taxpayers should get those funds covered by supporters of ACA, not by opponents.
It doesn't make sense to me to punish the taxpayers 1-3 times over
just because Congress pushed a bill past the dissenting voices and votes,
that favored corporate insurance interests over the opposition of taxpayers
who support either free market or Singlepayer/universal care WITHOUT corporate insurance getting paid.
Boss if you believe it is enough to voice our complaints to Congress,
my Congress rep is Sheila Jackson Lee. Who is yours? I'm happy to cowrite
and cosign a letter to both our reps and to the President and Supreme Court.
If individuals count equally as those forming large corporations,
then our dissent and consent should weigh the same. whether it is a single
person say yes or no, or a whole group with collectively more money and resources than we have.
I'm happy to establish your standards of holding individuals accountable.
So if you agree, can I challenge you to help me write a letter to just
Lee, Pelosi, Obama, Roberts, and your Rep and see if we can do just that?
Thanks Boss
if we have to go through a federal lawsuit then that proves my point.
If we can work one on one with individuals through govt and parties,
then we can fix the mess your way by addressing damages caused by corporate abuse of govt.
I argued that corporate interests had unequal influence and pull, so that once the damage is done to taxpayers in favor of corporate interests, then this requires more corrections than single individuals can pursue. It requires federal lawsuits that require corporate level lawyers and entities such as Hobby Lobby to challenge, where individuals saying NO to ACA mandates get run over and kicked out of court unanswered and unrepresented.
I argue this is not equal, between the influence of citizens vs. corporate interests with COLLECTIVE resources and influence on govt officials, unequal to the individual citizen.
Since Boss keeps insisting individual citizens are responsible for electing Congress, and thus the votes these reps produce, I want to challenge Boss to answer WHO is responsible for fixing damages by federal decisions made in favor of corporations?
EX:
A. Headwaters Forest in CA was gutted by MAXXAM Corporation
who pays for that
1. taxpayers who already bailed out est. 1.6 billion in junk bonds and interest for MAXXAM to buy Pacific Lumber and the land holdings through a hostile takeover, crash the company to raid the pension funds and clearcut the forest, etc.
and who already paid an addition 500 million or so to buy out parts of the forest
2. the "individuals" and shareholders who ran MAXXAM before it went bankrupt and had to hand over remaining land after a contested court battle over this
3. the people in government who made the financial and legal decisions to issue junk bonds that failed
at taxpayer expense
Who pays for the damage to Headwaters Forest and the restoration work to the ecosystems
and endangered species. Do taxpayers have to pay for this since we elected officials who abused
govt this way?
My answer: the people should pressure the govt to go after the wrongdoers.
and either the actual wrongdoers who profited off the destruction should pay the TRUE COST
of that profit by restoring the damage done to make all that money
OR the taxpayers who pay for this restoration costs should get credit for the loans
and investment and possibly hold the Forest land and programs as COLLATERAL on the debts bailed out
So whoever takes responsibility gets ownership of the land and programs.
but I say NO to govt and corporations controlling it without taking responsibility for the full cost.
that's like giving a negligent abusive parent custody of kid, who isn't feeding that kid but
starving and damaging that poor kid to the point of dying. Either fix it or give up custody of that kid.
But NO to paying the abusive parent to abuse kids and never be held accountable.
B. ACA mandates that favor corporate insurance companies and impose
costs and penalties on individual citizens who didn't CONSENT to this contract
Who should pay for the 24 billion cost of the federal shutdown over contested budget issues with ACA
1. the Congress reps and President and Justices who votes FOR and SIGNED this ACA
though it was contested by half the nation whose beliefs were violated and creeds were discriminated against
2. the corporations who benefited and should pay back the money or else whoever
SUPPORTS ACA should pay the collective costs of funding and making it work
3. the taxpayers should foot the bill since we are the ones who elected the Congress members
and President
again my answer is that taxpayers should hold parties and govt leaders responsible for
recognizing right to health care is a belief similar to right to life, and either treat creeds with
equal weight and respect, or don't pass either one through govt laws where it is biased
toward one and discriminates against the other. or this is unconstitutional violation of equal protections.
I hold that the members of Congress and parties who pushed for the ACA should take responsibility
for paying back costs and for funding the mandates as optional/voluntary;
while opponents are equally required to pay back costs of similar unconstitutional violations,
including contested Iraq War contracts at taxpayer expense, and pay for health care reforms
that those people and parties believe in.
And any corporations that made money off the business agreements in ACA without consent
of taxpayers should get those funds covered by supporters of ACA, not by opponents.
It doesn't make sense to me to punish the taxpayers 1-3 times over
just because Congress pushed a bill past the dissenting voices and votes,
that favored corporate insurance interests over the opposition of taxpayers
who support either free market or Singlepayer/universal care WITHOUT corporate insurance getting paid.
Boss if you believe it is enough to voice our complaints to Congress,
my Congress rep is Sheila Jackson Lee. Who is yours? I'm happy to cowrite
and cosign a letter to both our reps and to the President and Supreme Court.
If individuals count equally as those forming large corporations,
then our dissent and consent should weigh the same. whether it is a single
person say yes or no, or a whole group with collectively more money and resources than we have.
I'm happy to establish your standards of holding individuals accountable.
So if you agree, can I challenge you to help me write a letter to just
Lee, Pelosi, Obama, Roberts, and your Rep and see if we can do just that?
Thanks Boss
if we have to go through a federal lawsuit then that proves my point.
If we can work one on one with individuals through govt and parties,
then we can fix the mess your way by addressing damages caused by corporate abuse of govt.