And do you know how they will fuck it up? The lobbyists will be involved in writing up the bill.
And you know this is true.
Centrist Dem Leader: Has Committee Votes To Block Health Bill
- Thread starter del
- Start date
And do you know how they will fuck it up? The lobbyists will be involved in writing up the bill.
And you know this is true.
Epsilon Delta
Jedi Master
They should've just put it off for next year.
I'm getting tired of your guys lame old arguments, lies and false propoganda.
Ask any senior if they would give up social security.
And ask any canadian if they would trade theirs for ours.
PS. The GOP wouldn't even consider messing with healthcare when they were in charge. They filabustered any talk of it. So now that we are in charge, they're saying our ideas are bad and they/you have the solutions? Too late.
The only hope you guys have is that the healthcare industry can bribe enough Dems to stop change.
Health Care: The Public Plan Option
These Democratic Senators have NOT agreed to support it:
Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)
Senator Tom Carper (D-DE)
Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA)
Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)
Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)
Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE)
Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND)
Senator Max Baucus (D-MT)
Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Senator Evan Bayh (D-IN)
Senator Mark Pryor (D-AR)
Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT)
Are you serious?
Gotta get done this year with the election being next year.
We have 60 seats now with Al Franken.
You're a "house slave?"
Waaa Obama is a socialist! Waaaa he's going to ruin America!!! Waaaaa we have to give the corporations more tax breaks because I'm a house slave and I got it good.
Yes life got worse for the house slave after slavery was abolished, but life got better for the field slaves, and there were a lot more field slaves than house slaves. And consider this. If the house slave would have had his way, black people would still be slaves.
I thought you were just a hack-in-the-box!
Are you rich? No? Then why do you caucus with the rich, house slave. BOY!
Epsilon Delta
Jedi Master
Yeah, but like 15 of them are gonna say no. It's gonna fail, dude.
Yes, and then I will agree with you that 15 Democrats are no better than Republcans.
All bought and paid for by the healthcare lobbyists.
Won't do any of them any good. They will lose the next time they are up for election.
And good luck getting appointed to any good committees.
Ah hell, they're all in on it.
You and I both know that if they do pass something, its going to be written by the healthcare industry lobbyists, and so you will be right, there will be no real progress and it won't fix the real problems.
Just like when we all stood together and insisted they secure the borders.
I believe it was in 2006 right before the midterm. They passed an immigration bill, but it was watered down and didn't do very much.
CNN.com - Senate passes immigration bill - May 25, 2006
But the borders are a little more secure and the numbers have gone down a little, but the bill cost billions so they gave us minimum and took maximum for it.
God its frustrating. You're probably right.
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
- 2,496
- 245
The cost of doing NOTHING
Introduction
The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.
Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.
Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.
We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.
Economic Cost
The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, Delawares economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.
Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.
New Mexico, Maine, and South Carolina will see the greatest increases in the cost of family policies over the next eight years. In Maine, the average family employer-sponsored insurance policy will top $30,000 by 2016. According to our estimates, households in South Carolina, Louisiana, and Maine will have to spend the greatest shares of their income in order to purchase health insurance in 2016. Half of households in South Carolina will have to spend more than 62 percent of their incomes to buy health insurance in 2016.
Coverage
The financial protection offered by health insurance coverage will continue to deteriorate if we do not act. Americans will pay more for less and copayments and deductibles will rise. The average deductible nationwide will increase 73 percent to almost $2,700 by 2016. Average copayments will climb to $30.
Residents from Delaware and Vermont will see the biggest difference in their deductibles in 2016. Rising deductibles combined with higher premiums will make many Americans financially vulnerable to high health care bills. Residents of New Mexico, Massachusetts, and Hawaii will notice the biggest difference in how much they pay when they see a doctor in 2016. In New Mexico, a single office visit could cost an insured patient almost $50.
Conclusion
U.S. businesses, governments, and American families have all demonstrated that health care reform is a vital component of their long-term economic stability. Our nation will recover from its current financial services crisis, and when it does the U.S. will still be faced with a crumbling health system. As the data in this report shows, the cost of failing to act is high and it will only rise over time.
http://www.newamerica.net/publications/policy/cost_doing_nothing
Introduction
The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.
Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.
Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.
We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.
Economic Cost
The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, Delawares economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.
Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.
New Mexico, Maine, and South Carolina will see the greatest increases in the cost of family policies over the next eight years. In Maine, the average family employer-sponsored insurance policy will top $30,000 by 2016. According to our estimates, households in South Carolina, Louisiana, and Maine will have to spend the greatest shares of their income in order to purchase health insurance in 2016. Half of households in South Carolina will have to spend more than 62 percent of their incomes to buy health insurance in 2016.
Coverage
The financial protection offered by health insurance coverage will continue to deteriorate if we do not act. Americans will pay more for less and copayments and deductibles will rise. The average deductible nationwide will increase 73 percent to almost $2,700 by 2016. Average copayments will climb to $30.
Residents from Delaware and Vermont will see the biggest difference in their deductibles in 2016. Rising deductibles combined with higher premiums will make many Americans financially vulnerable to high health care bills. Residents of New Mexico, Massachusetts, and Hawaii will notice the biggest difference in how much they pay when they see a doctor in 2016. In New Mexico, a single office visit could cost an insured patient almost $50.
Conclusion
U.S. businesses, governments, and American families have all demonstrated that health care reform is a vital component of their long-term economic stability. Our nation will recover from its current financial services crisis, and when it does the U.S. will still be faced with a crumbling health system. As the data in this report shows, the cost of failing to act is high and it will only rise over time.
http://www.newamerica.net/publications/policy/cost_doing_nothing
PS. If the Dems can't get er done, they are going to lose seats.
Can't bring jobs back home, can't fix healthcare, can't help gays, can't help unions, can't raise wages, can't end the wars.
Yea, they will be in serious trouble.
But I'm not throwing in the towel yet. I'm just warning them what WILL happen IF...
dilloduck
Diamond Member
Then grab a person in need and help them and you've done your part. Why waste money on a middle man ?
Oddball
Unobtanium Member
And a shitload of the remainder qualify for Medicare/Medicaid, but haven't applied for it.
Oddball
Unobtanium Member
Why not act like this??...It's what you Fabian socialist loons what to believe, so why should I let you down??
Not only aren't Medicare/Medicaid perfec,. they're broke and cost about five times what they were projected to cost.
And somehow, we're supposed to believe that the D.C. dipshits are going to control costs this time??
welkl, of course they will "this time"
and the next time and the next time and so on
That's what we are doign with the for profits. The government will do it for much less than the for profits. No CEO demanding $20 million bonus'.
Oddball
Unobtanium Member
Nope...Just kooks like Bill Frist writing legislation on what procedures you can have and which you cannot.
Harry Dresden
Adamantium Member
and im sure plenty are part of the illegal Immigrant Brigade.....
Your right, they should have. But, Obama has his shove it in your face attitude with all these bills. If done right a good healthcare bill could work, but not on a time frame that has been laid for it. There are ways that it could work, but not in it's current wording. The government needs to step back, and not bully it through. Obama knows he has a short window of opportunity before he really loses major support, and possibly seats in the House and Senate. This is what's driving his timetable.
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auditor0007
Gold Member
when you can get it from your employer for about 20% of the cost(in your actual deduction) most should be able to afford
most employers that have healthcare, pay aprox 80% of the cost
thats why the COBRA coverage is too expensive for most to buy during the transistion between jobs
The problem is that employers do cover around 80% of the cost, but the cost continues to rise. It's going to double again, and believe me, we're going to hit a breaking point where employers can no longer afford to offer this coverage. Of course, large employers are mandated to cover their employees, so they're only option will be to shut down.
Again, despite the problem of having so many uninsured, the bigger problem is the rising costs which are greatly outpacing inflation and eating a larger percentage of companies revenue. It is unsustainable, but nobody wants to address this. We keep getting the same argument that everything is fine the way it is. Sorry, but that is not the case.
auditor0007
Gold Member
They do it all the time. Insurance companies are in the business of making money, not the business of providing healthcare. If you have a need for healthcare, they will only take you on if they are forced to, or they will charge so much that the coverage is unaffordable to most.
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