CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

[Old Rocks]

16,000 Wh battery pack. OK. That is a 16 kWh pack.

Roadster Technology - Battery | Tesla Motors

The pack weighs 990 pounds, stores 56 kWh of electric energy, and delivers up to 215 kW of electric power. Tesla battery packs have the highest energy density in the industry. To achieve this energy density, Tesla starts with thousands of best-in-class Lithium-ion cells and assembles them into a liquid-cooled battery pack, wrapped in a strong metal enclosure. The battery is optimized for performance, safety, longevity, and cost.

So they charge a 56 kWh battery in eight hours or less, but you cannot charge a 16 kWh battery in a month? And a solar installation of 5 kw will deliver 20 to 30 kWh a day. Perhaps you should take basic math once again.

 

[westwall]

16,000 Wh battery pack. OK. That is a 16 kWh pack.

Roadster Technology - Battery | Tesla Motors

The pack weighs 990 pounds, stores 56 kWh of electric energy, and delivers up to 215 kW of electric power. Tesla battery packs have the highest energy density in the industry. To achieve this energy density, Tesla starts with thousands of best-in-class Lithium-ion cells and assembles them into a liquid-cooled battery pack, wrapped in a strong metal enclosure. The battery is optimized for performance, safety, longevity, and cost.

So they charge a 56 kWh battery in eight hours or less, but you cannot charge a 16 kWh battery in a month? And a solar installation of 5 kw will deliver 20 to 30 kWh a day. Perhaps you should take basic math once again.

Yes, they can with grid power. Try doing it with solar some time.

 

[polarbear]

CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

President Obama’s vision to put a million plug-in cars on U.S. roads by 2015 is shorting out. Speaking back in March 2009 of pumping billions of dollars in federal grants, loans and subsidies that would bring this about he promised “This investment will not only reduce our dependence on foreign oil, it will put Americans back to work…”It positions American manufacturers on the cutting edge of innovation and solving our energy challenges.”

But woops, it turns out that plug-in car energy-saving argument is running out of juice. A September Congressional Budget Office Report has concluded that all that spending “…will have no impact on the total gasoline use and greenhouse gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” It also found that even with the $7,500 tax credits we taxpayers generously provided to purchasers, electric cars are still a bad buy, costing owners far more over the life of the car than traditional gas-powered vehicles.

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”​

It takes three BTUs of energy to produce the equivalent of one BTU of electrical energy in a battery. So the equivalent miles per gallon on the Volt when operated as a battery-powered car is only about 30 mpg. The same when it runs as a gasoline-powered car. A good compact car of that passenger size, would get 40 mpg. Thus, if a Volt is used in Hawaii, where oil is used to produce electricity, this would cause an increase in oil consumption and a corresponding increase in oil imports.

With present technology, electric cars are a disaster and costing billions in wasted tax dollars. Only a fool and someone trying to impress the foolish would buy one of these cars. If you truly want to help society, buy a conventional high mpg car and take the money you saved by not buying an electric car and invest in an engineering education for some deserving young person.​

Why would an electric car need to rely on power produced by oil or coal? In Hawaii and many states solar energy can and is used to produce a charge in batteries. Charging station powered by solar panels are showing up more and more in California.

If you were honest, which I know you're not, you would look at the benefits as well as any drawbacks to electric and hybrid vehicles. And, if you had some imagination you would see that eclectic vehicles are in their infancy and with R&D will become much more important in years to come. Ours, a 2012 Prius, is getting a bit over 50 MPG; it replaced a Chevy Malibu which was lucky to get 20 MPG and had less power in its V-6 than does the Prius.

BTW, I have no doubt that if you lived in 1895 and a horseless carriage drove by, you would yell, "get a horse". Thankfully most Americans are smarter and more imaginative than you.

If the best thing going is the Tesla Roadster Lithium battery pack weighing 990 lbs and having a capacity of only 56 kWhrs then You might as well get a horse. A single liter of gasoline represents 9.7 kWhrs and weighs less than 2 lbs...
I still drive my well maintained 1982 Ford F 150 van and don`t spend anywhere near the amount for gas what You make just in monthly payments for Your 50 mpg Prius....or what people pay to lease a Chevy Volt. What`s the going rate for one of those? About $340/month ?...even if its just sitting in the driveway not going anywhere.
Gas is the least expensive component of driving. The costliest by far is depreciation. The second costliest is maintenance and insurance.
I got You and Your 2012 Prius beat on both
I do all repairs myself, which is not a big deal with an older car where You can still easily reach all critical components. Just wait and see how much You have to fork over if You need the Oxygen sensor or another component replaced that plays havoc with the gas mileage You think You should get.
Or God forbid the serpentine belt needs replacing. All it takes is for one of the cheap as shit tension pulleys to seize up and that belt is toast. Have You ever looked at the cheap crap they install into cars lately ? My old washing machine has better pulley bearings or a better water pump than Your 2012 Prius.
Even for rather minor external engine component repairs You have to drop the entire "package" (=engine + transmission) with most of the late model cars. Making most DIU repairs almost impossible and after warranty component replacement prohibitively expensive. That`s the whole idea !!!
After the warranty expires Your 2012 Prius is a worthless throw away item and if You want to stay mobile You`ll never get of the trade- in / re-financing treadmill again. You should have kept Your Chevy Malibu and buy Yourself the garage manual and a set of decent tools.

And as far as the insurance is concerned I also pay way less than what others have to shell out who buy a new car on payments.
Before You "save" any money with Your 50 mpg 2012 Prius (= it a hybrid?) I can drive every month from Canada to Mexico and back just for the fun of it

 

[daveman]

CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

President Obama’s vision to put a million plug-in cars on U.S. roads by 2015 is shorting out. Speaking back in March 2009 of pumping billions of dollars in federal grants, loans and subsidies that would bring this about he promised “This investment will not only reduce our dependence on foreign oil, it will put Americans back to work…”It positions American manufacturers on the cutting edge of innovation and solving our energy challenges.”

But woops, it turns out that plug-in car energy-saving argument is running out of juice. A September Congressional Budget Office Report has concluded that all that spending “…will have no impact on the total gasoline use and greenhouse gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” It also found that even with the $7,500 tax credits we taxpayers generously provided to purchasers, electric cars are still a bad buy, costing owners far more over the life of the car than traditional gas-powered vehicles.

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”​

It takes three BTUs of energy to produce the equivalent of one BTU of electrical energy in a battery. So the equivalent miles per gallon on the Volt when operated as a battery-powered car is only about 30 mpg. The same when it runs as a gasoline-powered car. A good compact car of that passenger size, would get 40 mpg. Thus, if a Volt is used in Hawaii, where oil is used to produce electricity, this would cause an increase in oil consumption and a corresponding increase in oil imports.

With present technology, electric cars are a disaster and costing billions in wasted tax dollars. Only a fool and someone trying to impress the foolish would buy one of these cars. If you truly want to help society, buy a conventional high mpg car and take the money you saved by not buying an electric car and invest in an engineering education for some deserving young person.​

Why would an electric car need to rely on power produced by oil or coal? In Hawaii and many states solar energy can and is used to produce a charge in batteries. Charging station powered by solar panels are showing up more and more in California.

I see the point of the article went way over your pointy head. Not at all surprising, really.

Perhaps you should call Toyota and tell them they're making a big mistake.

If you were honest, which I know you're not...

Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it dishonest. No matter how much you pout and stamp your feet.

...you would look at the benefits as well as any drawbacks to electric and hybrid vehicles.

What makes you think I haven't? In some places, electric vehicles are well suited. In most -- they're not.

There is a lot more rural area in the US than there is urban. You seem to forget that not everyone lives 10 blocks away from everything they need. Where I live now, an electric vehicle would be fine for my work commute. My office is 2 miles away from the house. But my landlord wouldn't let me put in a charging station, because the service panel would have to be upgraded. Further, I go to school a couple of nights a week -- a 50 mile round trip. The school doesn't have any charging stations, nor do any of the gas stations along the route. So an electric vehicle would be impractical. And hybrids are just too expensive, not only in purchase price, but in battery replacement costs. Not to mention the environmental damage they cause just by being built.

You probably should acknowledge that I know my situation better than you ever could, and thus accept that what you insist I do to make you feel better about "saving the planet" is simply not workable.

And, if you had some imagination you would see that eclectic vehicles are in their infancy and with R&D will become much more important in years to come. Ours, a 2012 Prius, is getting a bit over 50 MPG; it replaced a Chevy Malibu which was lucky to get 20 MPG and had less power in its V-6 than does the Prius.

Yay you. When and if the technological challenges are met, and the technology is affordable and efficient WITHOUT SUBSIDIES, then I'll consider if it's right for me and my family. Your input is not required, no matter how much you think it is.

BTW, I have no doubt that if you lived in 1895 and a horseless carriage drove by, you would yell, "get a horse". Thankfully most Americans are smarter and more imaginative than you.

I have no doubt you're letting your bigotry against conservatives do your thinking for you, and it's not very good at it.

If I lived in 1895 and a horseless carriage drove by, I would yell, "Holy crap, that's awesome! I gotta get me one of those!" Further, conservatives would wonder how they could make a buck off it.

People like you? You'd want those dangerous, noisy, smelly things taken off the road because people might get hurt in them.

You see, the automotive industry was started and made wildly successful without government assistance. People had a vision, and worked hard to make it come true. No government subsidies. No President picking winners and losers, but mostly losers. No Pay Czar to dictate how much money the owner should make.

I know you'll have trouble comprehending that.

 

[daveman]

As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”

Wow It's like he read what I have said over and over.

Fly Catcher thinks he's wrong.

 

[daveman]

16,000 Wh battery pack. OK. That is a 16 kWh pack.

Roadster Technology - Battery | Tesla Motors

The pack weighs 990 pounds, stores 56 kWh of electric energy, and delivers up to 215 kW of electric power. Tesla battery packs have the highest energy density in the industry. To achieve this energy density, Tesla starts with thousands of best-in-class Lithium-ion cells and assembles them into a liquid-cooled battery pack, wrapped in a strong metal enclosure. The battery is optimized for performance, safety, longevity, and cost.

So they charge a 56 kWh battery in eight hours or less, but you cannot charge a 16 kWh battery in a month? And a solar installation of 5 kw will deliver 20 to 30 kWh a day. Perhaps you should take basic math once again.

Yes, they can with grid power. Try doing it with solar some time.

And don't forget to account for the environmental damage PV cell production causes.

But then, leftists don't mind killing the environment to save the environment. Collateral damage.

 

[daveman]

CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

President Obama’s vision to put a million plug-in cars on U.S. roads by 2015 is shorting out. Speaking back in March 2009 of pumping billions of dollars in federal grants, loans and subsidies that would bring this about he promised “This investment will not only reduce our dependence on foreign oil, it will put Americans back to work…”It positions American manufacturers on the cutting edge of innovation and solving our energy challenges.”

But woops, it turns out that plug-in car energy-saving argument is running out of juice. A September Congressional Budget Office Report has concluded that all that spending “…will have no impact on the total gasoline use and greenhouse gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” It also found that even with the $7,500 tax credits we taxpayers generously provided to purchasers, electric cars are still a bad buy, costing owners far more over the life of the car than traditional gas-powered vehicles.

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”​

It takes three BTUs of energy to produce the equivalent of one BTU of electrical energy in a battery. So the equivalent miles per gallon on the Volt when operated as a battery-powered car is only about 30 mpg. The same when it runs as a gasoline-powered car. A good compact car of that passenger size, would get 40 mpg. Thus, if a Volt is used in Hawaii, where oil is used to produce electricity, this would cause an increase in oil consumption and a corresponding increase in oil imports.

With present technology, electric cars are a disaster and costing billions in wasted tax dollars. Only a fool and someone trying to impress the foolish would buy one of these cars. If you truly want to help society, buy a conventional high mpg car and take the money you saved by not buying an electric car and invest in an engineering education for some deserving young person.​

Why would an electric car need to rely on power produced by oil or coal? In Hawaii and many states solar energy can and is used to produce a charge in batteries. Charging station powered by solar panels are showing up more and more in California.

If you were honest, which I know you're not, you would look at the benefits as well as any drawbacks to electric and hybrid vehicles. And, if you had some imagination you would see that eclectic vehicles are in their infancy and with R&D will become much more important in years to come. Ours, a 2012 Prius, is getting a bit over 50 MPG; it replaced a Chevy Malibu which was lucky to get 20 MPG and had less power in its V-6 than does the Prius.

BTW, I have no doubt that if you lived in 1895 and a horseless carriage drove by, you would yell, "get a horse". Thankfully most Americans are smarter and more imaginative than you.

If the best thing going is the Tesla Roadster Lithium battery pack weighing 990 lbs and having a capacity of only 56 kWhrs then You might as well get a horse. A single liter of gasoline represents 9.7 kWhrs and weighs less than 2 lbs...
I still drive my well maintained 1982 Ford F 150 van and don`t spend anywhere near the amount for gas what You make just in monthly payments for Your 50 mpg Prius....or what people pay to lease a Chevy Volt. What`s the going rate for one of those? About $340/month ?...even if its just sitting in the driveway not going anywhere.
Gas is the least expensive component of driving. The costliest by far is depreciation. The second costliest is maintenance and insurance.
I got You and Your 2012 Prius beat on both
I do all repairs myself, which is not a big deal with an older car where You can still easily reach all critical components. Just wait and see how much You have to fork over if You need the Oxygen sensor or another component replaced that plays havoc with the gas mileage You think You should get.
Or God forbid the serpentine belt needs replacing. All it takes is for one of the cheap as shit tension pulleys to seize up and that belt is toast. Have You ever looked at the cheap crap they install into cars lately ? My old washing machine has better pulley bearings or a better water pump than Your 2012 Prius.
Even for rather minor external engine component repairs You have to drop the entire "package" (=engine + transmission) with most of the late model cars. Making most DIU repairs almost impossible and after warranty component replacement prohibitively expensive. That`s the whole idea !!!
After the warranty expires Your 2012 Prius is a worthless throw away item and if You want to stay mobile You`ll never get of the trade- in / re-financing treadmill again. You should have kept Your Chevy Malibu and buy Yourself the garage manual and a set of decent tools.

And as far as the insurance is concerned I also pay way less than what others have to shell out who buy a new car on payments.
Before You "save" any money with Your 50 mpg 2012 Prius (= it a hybrid?) I can drive every month from Canada to Mexico and back just for the fun of it

Hey! No fair using facts and logic!

It's okay, Fly Catcher. Just ignore the scary facts and the mean ol' logic. You're helping SAVE the planet, and it's worth whatever exorbitant sum you're paying just so you can look all environmentally-conscious when you drive your Prius three blocks down to Arugla R Us.

 

[orthlefoxxe]

BIOMASS AS a fuel for BOILERs​

Biomass for energy often mean plant base material although can equally apply to both animal and vegetable draw from material. Biomass is actually a biological material derive form living or recently living organisms.

Hello to you too, of course we can still do something about this. We can start now. And we can start change to our selves, next is at home then the community and for all we know everyone is doing the change until the whole world is a better place.

 

[polarbear]

Biomass chemical composition is carbon based and is composed of a mixture of organic molecules containing hydrogen, usually including atoms of oxygen, often nitrogen and also small quantities of other atoms, including alkali, alkaline earth and heavy metals, metals are often found in functional molecules such as the porphyrins which include chlorophyll which contains magnesium.

Why are You posting this biomass boiler fuel ad over and over again into a a thread where we discuss how to power cars ?
Is that what You had in mind?...:

What makes You think we don`t know what`s in biomass,...which is liberal new-speak for plain old compost and manure

 

[polarbear]

CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

President Obama’s vision to put a million plug-in cars on U.S. roads by 2015 is shorting out. Speaking back in March 2009 of pumping billions of dollars in federal grants, loans and subsidies that would bring this about he promised “This investment will not only reduce our dependence on foreign oil, it will put Americans back to work…”It positions American manufacturers on the cutting edge of innovation and solving our energy challenges.”

But woops, it turns out that plug-in car energy-saving argument is running out of juice. A September Congressional Budget Office Report has concluded that all that spending “…will have no impact on the total gasoline use and greenhouse gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” It also found that even with the $7,500 tax credits we taxpayers generously provided to purchasers, electric cars are still a bad buy, costing owners far more over the life of the car than traditional gas-powered vehicles.

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”​

It takes three BTUs of energy to produce the equivalent of one BTU of electrical energy in a battery. So the equivalent miles per gallon on the Volt when operated as a battery-powered car is only about 30 mpg. The same when it runs as a gasoline-powered car. A good compact car of that passenger size, would get 40 mpg. Thus, if a Volt is used in Hawaii, where oil is used to produce electricity, this would cause an increase in oil consumption and a corresponding increase in oil imports.

With present technology, electric cars are a disaster and costing billions in wasted tax dollars. Only a fool and someone trying to impress the foolish would buy one of these cars. If you truly want to help society, buy a conventional high mpg car and take the money you saved by not buying an electric car and invest in an engineering education for some deserving young person.​

Why would an electric car need to rely on power produced by oil or coal? In Hawaii and many states solar energy can and is used to produce a charge in batteries. Charging station powered by solar panels are showing up more and more in California.

If you were honest, which I know you're not, you would look at the benefits as well as any drawbacks to electric and hybrid vehicles. And, if you had some imagination you would see that eclectic vehicles are in their infancy and with R&D will become much more important in years to come. Ours, a 2012 Prius, is getting a bit over 50 MPG; it replaced a Chevy Malibu which was lucky to get 20 MPG and had less power in its V-6 than does the Prius.

BTW, I have no doubt that if you lived in 1895 and a horseless carriage drove by, you would yell, "get a horse". Thankfully most Americans are smarter and more imaginative than you.

The only infancy involved here is not the R & D, but the people who don`t grasp that the problem with electric cars is not the "car" but the power source. Lithium is as good as it gets. If You had even the slightest idea what "emf" stands for then You`ld know that Lithium is as good as it possibly can get:
http://chemed.chem.wisc.edu/chempat...lectromotive-Force-of-Galvanic-Cells-700.html

F2(g) + 2e– → 2F– (aq)

2.87​

Co3+(aq) + e– → Co2+(aq)

1.92​

Au+(aq) + e– → Au(s)

1.83​

H2O2(aq) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → 4H2O(&#8467

1.763​

Ce4+(aq) + e– → Ce3+(aq)

1.72​

Pb4+(aq) + 2e– → Pb2+(aq)

1.69​

PbO2(s) + SO42−(aq) + 4H3O+(aq) + 2e– → PbSO4(s) + 6H2O(&#8467

1.690​

NiO2(s) + 4H3O+(aq) + 2e– → Ni2+(aq) + 6H2O(&#8467

1.68​

2HClO(aq) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → Cl2(g) + 4H2O(&#8467

1.63​

Au3+(aq) + 3e− → Au(s)

1.52​

MnO4−(aq) + 8H3O+(aq) + 5e– → Mn2+(aq) + 12H2O(&#8467

1.51​

BrO3−(aq) + 6H3O+(aq) + 5e− → ½Br2(aq) + 9H2O(&#8467

1.478​

2ClO3−(aq) + 12H3O+(aq) + 10e– → Cl2(g) + 18H2O(&#8467

1.47​

Cr2O72−(aq) + 14H3O+(aq) + 6e– → 2Cr3+(aq) + 21H2O(&#8467

1.36​

Cl2(g) + 2e− → 2Cl−(aq)

1.358​

N2H5+(aq) + 3H3O+(aq) + 2e– → 2NH4+(aq) + 3H2O(&#8467

1.275​

MnO2(s) + 4H3O+(aq) + 2e– → Mn2+(aq) + 6H2O(&#8467

1.23​

O2(g) + 4H3O+(aq) + 4e– → 6H2O(&#8467

1.229​

ClO4−(aq) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → ClO3−(aq) + 3H2O(&#8467

1.201​

IO3−(aq) + 6H3O+(aq) + 5e– → ½ I2(aq) + 9H2O(&#8467

1.195​

Pt2+(aq) + 2e− → Pt(s)

1.188​

Br2(&#8467 + 2e− → 2Br−(aq)

1.066​

AuCl4−(aq) + 3e− → Au(s) + 4Cl−(aq)

1.00​

NO3−(aq) + 4H3O+(aq) + 3e– → NO(g) + 6H2O(&#8467

0.96​

NO3−(aq) + 3H3O+(aq) + 2e– → HNO2(aq) + 4H2O(&#8467

0.94​

Pd2+(aq) + 2e− → Pd(s)

0.915​

2Hg2+(aq) +2e− → Hg22+(aq)

0.9110​

Hg2+(aq) +2e− → Hg(&#8467

0.8535​

SbCl6−(aq) + 2e− → SbCl4−(aq) + 2Cl−(aq)

0.84​

Ag+(aq) + e− → Ag(s)

0.7991​

Hg22+(aq) + 2e− → 2Hg(&#8467

0.7960​

Fe3+(aq) + e− → Fe2+(aq)

0.771​

[PtCl4] 2−(aq) + 2e− → Pt(s) + 4Cl–(aq)

0.758​

[PtCl6] 2−(aq) + 2e− → [PtCl4] 2−(aq) + 2Cl–(aq)

0.726​

O2(g) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → H2O2(aq) + 2H2O(&#8467

0.695​

TeO2(s) + 4H3O+(aq) + 4e– → Te(s) + 6H2O(&#8467

0.604​

H3AsO4(aq) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e− → HAsO2(aq) + 4H2O(&#8467

0.560​

I2(s) + 2e− → 2I−(aq)

0.535​

Cu+(aq) + e− → Cu(s)

0.521​

[RhCl6] 3−(aq) + 3e− → Rh(s) + 6Cl–(aq)

0.5​

Cu2+(aq) + 2e− → Cu(s)

0.340​

Hg2Cl2(s) + 2e− → 2Hg(&#8467 + 2Cl−(aq)

0.27​

AgCl(s) + e− → Ag(s) + Cl−(aq)

0.222​

Cu2+(aq) + e− → Cu+(aq)

0.159​

SO42−(aq) + 4H3O+(aq) + 2e– → H2SO3(aq) + 5H2O(&#8467

0.158​

Sn4+(aq) + 2e− → Sn2+(aq)

0.15​

S(s) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → H2S(aq) + 2H2O(&#8467

0.144​

AgBr(s) + e− → Ag(s) + Br−(aq)

0.0713​

2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → 2H2(g) + 2H2O(&#8467 (reference electrode)

0.0000​

N2O(g) + 6H3O+(aq) + 4e– → 2NH3OH+(aq) + 5H2O(&#8467

– 0.05​

HgS(s, black) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → Hg(&#8467 + H2S(g) + 2H2O(&#8467

– 0.085​

Se(s) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → H2Se(aq) + 2H2O(&#8467

– 0.115​

Pb2+(aq) + 2e− → Pb(s)

– 0.125​

Sn2+(aq) + 2e− → Sn(s)

– 0.1375​

AgI(s) + e− → Ag(s) + I−(aq)

– 0.1522​

[SnF6]2–(aq) + 4e− → Sn(s) + 6F−(aq)

– 0.200​

Ni2+(aq) + 2e− → Ni(s)

– 0.25​

Co2+(aq) + 2e− → Co(s)

-0.277​

Tl+(aq) + e− → Tl(s)

– 0.3363​

PbSO4(s) + 2e− → Pb(s) + SO42−(aq)

– 0.3505​

Cd2+(aq) + 2e− → Cd(s)

– 0.403​

Cr3+(aq) + e− → Cr2+(aq)

– 0.424​

Fe2+(aq) + 2e− → Fe(s)

– 0.44​

2CO2(g) + 2H3O+(aq) + 2e– → (COOH)2(aq) + 2H2O(&#8467

– 0.481​

Ga3+(aq) + 3e− → Ga(s)

– 0.53​

Cr3+(aq) + 3e− → Cr(s)

– 0.74​

Zn2+(aq) + 2e− → Zn(s)

– 0.763​

Cr2+(aq) + 2e− → Cr(s)

– 0.90​

V2+(aq) + 2e− → V(s)

– 1.13​

Mn2+(aq) + 2e− → Mn(s)

– 1.18​

Zr4+(aq) + 4e− → Zr(s)

– 1.55​

Al3+(aq) + 3e− → Al(s)

– 1.676​

H2(g) + 2e− → 2H−(aq)

– 2.25​

Mg2+(aq) + 2e− → Mg(s)

– 2.356​

Na+(aq) + e− → Na(s)

- 2.714​

Ca2+(aq) + 2e− → Ca(s)

– 2.84​

Sr2+(aq) + 2e− → Sr(s)

– 2.89​

Ba2+(aq) + 2e− → Ba(s)

– 2.92​

Rb+(aq) + e− → Rb(s)

– 2.925​

K+(aq) + e− → K(s)

– 2.925​

Li+(aq) + e− → Li(s)

– 3.045​

So please do tell us about a better electrode combination than Fluorine ( +2 e at 2.87) and Lithium ( -1e at -3.o45).
Imagine how the EPA would freak out if we`ld start using Fluorine gas as an electrodes with Lithium in car batteries.

So with what should we make a battery, which is not as "infantile" as a battery with Lithium anode and any of the next most powerful possible cathode choices, say for example Cobalt oxide ????

That`s what`s in Your cell phone. Maybe try power up Your Prius with Your cell phone while it`s plugged in Your cigarette lighter plug...if it`s even got one.

Maybe You can get Superman to tell what "Kryptonite" is

Or get Captain Kirk & "Scotty" to share with us where we might find "Di-Lithium" crystals

 

[Papageorgio]

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”

This is the real issue and business is realizing it is an issue. The government some how thinks throwing tax credits at it, will fill the need. Stupid government.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

President Obama’s vision to put a million plug-in cars on U.S. roads by 2015 is shorting out. Speaking back in March 2009 of pumping billions of dollars in federal grants, loans and subsidies that would bring this about he promised “This investment will not only reduce our dependence on foreign oil, it will put Americans back to work…”It positions American manufacturers on the cutting edge of innovation and solving our energy challenges.”

But woops, it turns out that plug-in car energy-saving argument is running out of juice. A September Congressional Budget Office Report has concluded that all that spending “…will have no impact on the total gasoline use and greenhouse gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” It also found that even with the $7,500 tax credits we taxpayers generously provided to purchasers, electric cars are still a bad buy, costing owners far more over the life of the car than traditional gas-powered vehicles.

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”​

It takes three BTUs of energy to produce the equivalent of one BTU of electrical energy in a battery. So the equivalent miles per gallon on the Volt when operated as a battery-powered car is only about 30 mpg. The same when it runs as a gasoline-powered car. A good compact car of that passenger size, would get 40 mpg. Thus, if a Volt is used in Hawaii, where oil is used to produce electricity, this would cause an increase in oil consumption and a corresponding increase in oil imports.

With present technology, electric cars are a disaster and costing billions in wasted tax dollars. Only a fool and someone trying to impress the foolish would buy one of these cars. If you truly want to help society, buy a conventional high mpg car and take the money you saved by not buying an electric car and invest in an engineering education for some deserving young person.​

Why would an electric car need to rely on power produced by oil or coal? In Hawaii and many states solar energy can and is used to produce a charge in batteries. Charging station powered by solar panels are showing up more and more in California.

If you were honest, which I know you're not, you would look at the benefits as well as any drawbacks to electric and hybrid vehicles. And, if you had some imagination you would see that eclectic vehicles are in their infancy and with R&D will become much more important in years to come. Ours, a 2012 Prius, is getting a bit over 50 MPG; it replaced a Chevy Malibu which was lucky to get 20 MPG and had less power in its V-6 than does the Prius.

BTW, I have no doubt that if you lived in 1895 and a horseless carriage drove by, you would yell, "get a horse". Thankfully most Americans are smarter and more imaginative than you.

You seem to be confused, electric cars have been around for 150 years. The earliest electric cars outperformed the anything that was powered by steam, or even gasoline. The problem is that, despite the arrogance of the progressives that don't know history, they cannot compete with an internal combustion engine.

Feel free to lecture me about being anti tech because I pay attention to science.

 

[polarbear]

You seem to be confused, electric cars have been around for 150 years. The earliest electric cars outperformed the anything that was powered by steam, or even gasoline. The problem is that, despite the arrogance of the progressives that don't know history, they cannot compete with an internal combustion engine.

Feel free to lecture me about being ant tech because I pay attention to science.

Confused? Seems to me You are the one who is confused. Electric motors had a 32 year head start ( 1828) because they are relatively lo-tech and simple to make compared to an internal combustion engine. For a while the crossbow was better than the first firearms too, but once firearms were perfected You might as well have shown up with a knife instead of a crossbow at a gunfight. It`s like comparing a vintage piston steam engine with a radial steam turbine. After the first internal combustion engine patent ( 1860) it only took 28 years to outperform everything else. Please do tell me how the Wright Brothers would have ever got off the ground without the evil internal combustion engine. You say You pay attention to science, then You should not be stuck to explain how they could have done it with an electric motor.
Batteries will never replace combustible fuel as a reliable portable energy source that has to last over a significant distance. There is a reason why the only viable electric cars were golf carts until the anti resource freaks got traction with a corrupted U.N. and this battery powered car nonsense got enviro- tax $cam funding,...just like wind and solar....which will never be able to supply grid power on demand.
I liked the U.S. ever since WW2 G.I.`s came with trucks to our schools in Germany and made sure little kids had enough to eat. But right now I`m sure glad I live in Canada and not the U.S.
At least we don`t have a Government that uses my tax $ to help You buy Your stupid Chevy Volt or crap like that.
I`ll keep my $$ unencumbered old F150 and keep filling my fuel tanks with tax free gas, do my own repairs and I don`t have to wait for the snow plow before I can make it to town to get what I need.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAFvkYmIDpU&feature=youtu.be"]I keep my old F150 and You can keep Your Chevy Volt - YouTube[/ame]
I`ld like to see how far You would get with Your Chevy Volt or whatever toy car You drive at -30 C and through a foot and a half snow.
Every year I pull lots of city idiots who drive these gay cars out of snow drifts or help them re-start their shitty little "fuel efficient" engines so they don`t freeze to death when they get stranded during winter on the open road.
If I were in the U.S. right now instead of Canada I think I would just keep driving right by a stranded Chevy Volt, knowing full well who such fools voted for.

 

[SSDD]

The only infancy involved here is not the R & D, but the people who don`t grasp that the problem with electric cars is not the "car" but the power source. Lithium is as good as it gets. If You had even the slightest idea what "emf" stands for then You`ld know that Lithium is as good as it possibly can get:

Good post polarbear but this, like most of the green crazyness isn't about what is, it is about what the want or what they wish, or simply what would make them feel good. Reality rarely enters into their thinking. Look at the state that real conservation and environmentalism has been driven to. People actually doing environmental good are now mostly at the local level and are getting very little attention for it.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, Polar Bear, when they finally get a battery with a power density approaching that of gasoline, your Ford 150 would be a prime candidate for a retrofit. By the way, the Ford pickups of that body model are my favorites. Bed the right height to put stuff in and out of. Good ground clearance, and room to work under the hood. But the engines of that year have a significant drawback, far too little power for the amount of gasoline they use. On a trip from Bend on 20 past Burns to Drewsey, back to Burns, and south to John Day, I got slightly over 16 mpg on a one ton Ford stretch van with a 460. That is better than I ever got with a 1978 150 van with a 351. Even so, I do miss being able to work on the engine without a computer.

Right now, Ford is making a small SUV that get 47/47. And has a 20 mile range on battery alone. Given the state of technology right now, I see no reason that they could not build a pickup that would get 30/30 and have a 50 mile range on electricity. Plenty of room underneath that frame for batteries.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, Polar Bear, when they finally get a battery with a power density approaching that of gasoline, your Ford 150 would be a prime candidate for a retrofit. By the way, the Ford pickups of that body model are my favorites. Bed the right height to put stuff in and out of. Good ground clearance, and room to work under the hood. But the engines of that year have a significant drawback, far too little power for the amount of gasoline they use. On a trip from Bend on 20 past Burns to Drewsey, back to Burns, and south to John Day, I got slightly over 16 mpg on a one ton Ford stretch van with a 460. That is better than I ever got with a 1978 150 van with a 351. Even so, I do miss being able to work on the engine without a computer.

Right now, Ford is making a small SUV that get 47/47. And has a 20 mile range on battery alone. Given the state of technology right now, I see no reason that they could not build a pickup that would get 30/30 and have a 50 mile range on electricity. Plenty of room underneath that frame for batteries.

When they finally break the laws of physics regarding the conservation of matter and energy we won't need to worry about what powers our vehicles because we will have transporters that can transport us to anywhere we want to go instantly.

Idiot.

 

[polarbear]

Well, Polar Bear, when they finally get a battery with a power density approaching that of gasoline, your Ford 150 would be a prime candidate for a retrofit. By the way, the Ford pickups of that body model are my favorites. Bed the right height to put stuff in and out of. Good ground clearance, and room to work under the hood. But the engines of that year have a significant drawback, far too little power for the amount of gasoline they use. On a trip from Bend on 20 past Burns to Drewsey, back to Burns, and south to John Day, I got slightly over 16 mpg on a one ton Ford stretch van with a 460. That is better than I ever got with a 1978 150 van with a 351. Even so, I do miss being able to work on the engine without a computer.

Right now, Ford is making a small SUV that get 47/47. And has a 20 mile range on battery alone. Given the state of technology right now, I see no reason that they could not build a pickup that would get 30/30 and have a 50 mile range on electricity. Plenty of room underneath that frame for batteries.

When they do and I`m still alive that will be my top priority purchase and Yes I had the same idea as what You just said...I would try everything to retrofit my old Ford, failing that I would keep it as a backup and get an electric run-about for my wife. I don`t enjoy going shopping as much as she does and she`s too scared to drive my Van because she`s not comfortable to back up only with mirrors.
I`ll keep that F150 no matter what because it`s an all-round workhorse.
That winch and the 1+1/2 steel "eye" I welded on the trailer tow bar in the back is often used as a fulcrum for my "crane" in conjunction with a 16 foot steel pipe anchored to the steel roof rack bars...On occasion I use it to help others to hoist out their engine or move and lift heavy objects...

Another reason why I would buy such a battery is for my wind turbine which will go back up on my roof next Spring. I`ll even replace my hail damaged solar panels and then I need a lot more storage capacity than my current deep cycle marine batteries have. I`m not doing this because I can`t afford my hydro...it`s free and we just signed another contract with Manitoba Hydro because they want to make a shortcut for Bipole 3 High Voltage Lines going south through our Reserve.

I`m doing it because I enjoy doing this kind of stuff and when my 8 foot 4 blade wind turbine was up a lot of people from town where they do pay for hydro stopped and wanted to know how to DIU one like mine.
I have already made several "free-B" turbine blades for some farmers who are serious to follow through and complete it on their own...well maybe not quite free but I barter for eggs milk, chickens or a favor for a favor and stuff like that. It`s a concept I`m also teaching my 3 great grand sons:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbMiHC3hptk&list=UUvj7dbOY14kt_MFIR1Y1iwA&index=2&feature=plcp

It does not help the Revenue Department to balance the national budget, but it does do wonders as far as character building is concerned.
But back to my wind turbine..The damn thing put out over 1000 Watts at less than 15 mph winds.There is no relationship between CO2 and Hydro power in most Canadian Provinces, such as Manitoba because we have a vast surplus of Hydro power which we send south with Dipole 1 and 2 to the U.S. But I`m having fun spinning my Hydro meter backwards when conditions are right and getting a cheque in the mail from M.H.....which I use to buy lumber to build tree-houses and stuff for my 3 great grand sons.

 

[SSDD]

When they finally break the laws of physics regarding the conservation of matter and energy we won't need to worry about what powers our vehicles because we will have transporters that can transport us to anywhere we want to go instantly.

Idiot.

Yes...we could power the world using the principles of backradiation that the AGW hypothesis is founded on. Perpetual motion baby...never ending energy for free. Reflect energy from a heat source back to the heat source and increase its output...the stuff of dreams. It would be more valuable than being able to turn lead into gold.

 

[varelse]

Just throwing this out there... we use oil when we make solar panels using current technology

 

[SSDD]

Just throwing this out there... we use oil when we make solar panels using current technology

And the process of making them causes more environmental harm than simply burning gas in automobiles but greens don't think that way. They rarely follow any bright shiny idea to its logical and inescapable conclusion. They see on the surface that it doesn't burn oil so it must be good and stop thinking there and jump straight to advocacy. Then later ignore the results as they desperately search for the next bright shiny idea to advocate.