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Can't The US do better than Donald Trump or Joe Biden

basquebromance

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the 2024 candidate who gets Hannah Montana to campaign in Montana for him should be automatically declared the president!
 

Mac1958

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Opposing Authoritarian Ideological Fundamentalism.
I do not think he understands at all, he is too far gone to get such things.
Honestly, I often wonder if what I'm saying makes any sense to people like that at all. Their responses indicate that my words didn't make it into their skulls, but I can't tell if it's an organic lack of understanding or a conscious refusal to process it.
 

dblack

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Whatever you do, don't stop voting for Ds and Rs. It's the only way! Go lesser, or go home!
 

Lesh

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Biden’s doing fine despite all the wing nut yelping
 

healthmyths

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As I recall, the given definition of "energy independent" was exporting more oil than we imported.



so....

US Exports...117,665,000 barrels of oil for the month of July 2022.

View attachment 703964

US Imports...6,604,000 barrels of oil for the month of July 2022.


View attachment 703965
No question regarding your statistics. I agree.
I would like to remind you of your quote:
"A conspiracy theorist is a person who tacitly admits that they have insufficient data to prove their points."
— Neil deGrasse Tyson
Facts that provide SUFFICIENT DATA TO PROVE Biden wants to destroy fossil fuels...

A) Biden said so...
"I want you to look into my eyes, I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels” September 06, 2019, 5:49 PM

B) Biden signs the fewest federal oil leases..since 1945!

The Biden administration has leased fewer acres for oil-and-gas drilling offshore and on federal land than any other administration in its early stages dating back to the end of World War II, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.Sep 6, 2022

C) Biden increases the COST of oil exploration! Biden increases oil royalty rate and scales back lease sales on federal lands
The royalty rate for new leases will increase to 18.75% from 12.5%.
That's a 50% jump and marks the first increase to royalties for the federal government since they were imposed in the 1920s.

So the facts are Biden said he guarantees fossil fuels be eliminated, he then signs the fewest leases on federal lands, and raises the costs 50% to
find oil on federal land. As your Tyson quote states: "insufficient data to prove their points".
You haven't provided sufficient data to contradict the above facts that Biden wants to destroy...i.e. GUARANTEES to destroy fossil fuels!
 

Golfing Gator

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No question regarding your statistics. I agree.
I would like to remind you of your quote:
"A conspiracy theorist is a person who tacitly admits that they have insufficient data to prove their points."
— Neil deGrasse Tyson
Facts that provide SUFFICIENT DATA TO PROVE Biden wants to destroy fossil fuels...

A) Biden said so...
"I want you to look into my eyes, I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels” September 06, 2019, 5:49 PM

B) Biden signs the fewest federal oil leases..since 1945!

The Biden administration has leased fewer acres for oil-and-gas drilling offshore and on federal land than any other administration in its early stages dating back to the end of World War II, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.Sep 6, 2022

C) Biden increases the COST of oil exploration! Biden increases oil royalty rate and scales back lease sales on federal lands
The royalty rate for new leases will increase to 18.75% from 12.5%.
That's a 50% jump and marks the first increase to royalties for the federal government since they were imposed in the 1920s.

So the facts are Biden said he guarantees fossil fuels be eliminated, he then signs the fewest leases on federal lands, and raises the costs 50% to
find oil on federal land. As your Tyson quote states: "insufficient data to prove their points".
You haven't provided sufficient data to contradict the above facts that Biden wants to destroy...i.e. GUARANTEES to destroy fossil fuels!

I have never denied that Biden wants to destroy fossil fuels, I just think that like everything else he does it is a failure.

So, question for you...are we energy independent or not? Using the definition that was used previously?
 

healthmyths

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I have never denied that Biden wants to destroy fossil fuels, I just think that like everything else he does it is a failure.

So, question for you...are we energy independent or not? Using the definition that was used previously?
Trump was declared per the attached FACTS...
Trump was ONLY President U.S. energy production in 2019 was higher than U.S. energy consumption for the first time in 62 years.
Thus, the U.S. attained the long-held goal of “energy independence”
And we have continued under Trump's energy plans to be energy independent in spite of the below FACTS that reversed Trump's plans.

Biden orders reversal of Trump’s ‘energy independence’ policies​

There were at least 10 other orders and directives issued aimed at repealing directives issued by Donald Trump.
 

Golfing Gator

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Trump was ONLY President U.S. energy production in 2019 was higher than U.S. energy consumption for the first time in 62 years.
Thus, the U.S. attained the long-held goal of “energy independence”

So, if the same holds true now, you will be happy to say that we have once again attained the long-held goal of “energy independence”?


The yellow is production and the green is consumption.

1664639474155.png



Seems that despite his best efforts, Biden has not destroyed our energy independence.
 

healthmyths

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So, if the same holds true now, you will be happy to say that we have once again attained the long-held goal of “energy independence”?


The yellow is production and the green is consumption.

View attachment 704050


Seems that despite his best efforts, Biden has not destroyed our energy independence.
That is for sure. In spite of Biden's "I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels”
 

Golfing Gator

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That is for sure. In spite of Biden's "I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels”

So, just so I have this straight you agree we currently have energy independence?
 
OP
ElmerMudd

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No question regarding your statistics. I agree.
I would like to remind you of your quote:
"A conspiracy theorist is a person who tacitly admits that they have insufficient data to prove their points."
— Neil deGrasse Tyson
Facts that provide SUFFICIENT DATA TO PROVE Biden wants to destroy fossil fuels...

A) Biden said so...
"I want you to look into my eyes, I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels” September 06, 2019, 5:49 PM

B) Biden signs the fewest federal oil leases..since 1945!

The Biden administration has leased fewer acres for oil-and-gas drilling offshore and on federal land than any other administration in its early stages dating back to the end of World War II, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.Sep 6, 2022

C) Biden increases the COST of oil exploration! Biden increases oil royalty rate and scales back lease sales on federal lands
The royalty rate for new leases will increase to 18.75% from 12.5%.
That's a 50% jump and marks the first increase to royalties for the federal government since they were imposed in the 1920s.

So the facts are Biden said he guarantees fossil fuels be eliminated, he then signs the fewest leases on federal lands, and raises the costs 50% to
find oil on federal land. As your Tyson quote states: "insufficient data to prove their points".
You haven't provided sufficient data to contradict the above facts that Biden wants to destroy...i.e. GUARANTEES to destroy fossil fuels!
Simple minds look for simple solutions. The gas price issue is much bigger than access to crude oil. A contributing factor is lack of refineries. The oil companies are not building new more efficient refineries. They are even closing refineries
And there is the problem of contribution to climate change.
If those who believe climate change is increased by fossil fuels are wrong, WE PAY MORE FOR GAS AND EVENTUALLY HAVE ELECTRIC VEHICLES
If those who believe climate change is NOT increased by fossil fuels are wrong, OUR GRAND CHILDREN AND ON, DIE.

 

healthmyths

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Simple minds look for simple solutions. The gas price issue is much bigger than access to crude oil. A contributing factor is lack of refineries. The oil companies are not building new more efficient refineries. They are even closing refineries
And there is the problem of contribution to climate change.
If those who believe climate change is increased by fossil fuels are wrong, WE PAY MORE FOR GAS AND EVENTUALLY HAVE ELECTRIC VEHICLES
If those who believe climate change is NOT increased by fossil fuels are wrong, OUR GRAND CHILDREN AND ON, DIE.

And even simpler minds don't consider the details involved.
For example: simpler mind like yours says OK EVs for all... Have you figured out the cost in kWh to provide EVs for all Americans for example?
Example one is if the 8.3 trillion kWh needed to replace all cars/trucks gas/diesel powered with nuclear energy power plants, 2,767 to be exact!
Example two is if the 8.3 trillion needed generated by 187 million solar panels.
But even simpler minds can't seem to grasp the other major issue by doing what Biden's guaranteed..."getting rid of fossil fuels"!
Tell me something even simpler mind. How you going to replace the 300 million barrels of oil used EVERY year to make 2 billion tires? FACT:

Oh even simpler mind "Elmer"... you mentioned oil refineries closings... did you ever consider why oil refineries aren no longer being built and being shut down which you said has contributed to rising prices??
FACT: The CEO of Chevron ..Wirth said, "You're looking at committing capital 10 years out, that will need decades to offer a return for shareholders, in a policy environment where governments around the world are saying, 'We don't want these products to be used in the future.'"

Even-simpler-minded "ELMER" THINK!! If the president of the USA guarantees to rid fossil fuels...GEEZ Maybe Wirth,et.al. say OK! Why do the above!
But even simpler minds like Elmer still have no concept as to the massive destruction of the work that will take place by fulfilling Biden's guarantee!
Cost4EVsreplacegas093022.png




solarpanelsforEVs.png
 
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ElmerMudd

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And even simpler minds don't consider the details involved.
For example: simpler mind like yours says OK EVs for all... Have you figured out the cost in kWh to provide EVs for all Americans for example?
Example one is if the 8.3 trillion kWh needed to replace all cars/trucks gas/diesel powered with nuclear energy power plants, 2,767 to be exact!
Example two is if the 8.3 trillion needed generated by 187 million solar panels.
But even simpler minds can't seem to grasp the other major issue by doing what Biden's guaranteed..."getting rid of fossil fuels"!
Tell me something even simpler mind. How you going to replace the 300 million barrels of oil used EVERY year to make 2 billion tires? FACT:

Oh even simpler mind "Elmer"... you mentioned oil refineries closings... did you ever consider why oil refineries aren no longer being built and being shut down which you said has contributed to rising prices??
FACT: The CEO of Chevron ..Wirth said, "You're looking at committing capital 10 years out, that will need decades to offer a return for shareholders, in a policy environment where governments around the world are saying, 'We don't want these products to be used in the future.'"

Even-simpler-minded "ELMER" THINK!! If the president of the USA guarantees to rid fossil fuels...GEEZ Maybe Wirth,et.al. say OK! Why do the above!
But even simpler minds like Elmer still have no concept as to the massive destruction of the work that will take place by fulfilling Biden's guarantee!
View attachment 704116



View attachment 704117
All you say does not change
If those who believe climate change is NOT increased by fossil fuels are wrong, OUR GRAND CHILDREN AND ON, DIE

Do your analysis to provided efficient transition from fossil fuels to new clean power sources.
What can it hurt?
 

healthmyths

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All you say does not change
If those who believe climate change is NOT increased by fossil fuels are wrong, OUR GRAND CHILDREN AND ON, DIE

Do your analysis to provided efficient transition from fossil fuels to new clean power sources.
What can it hurt?
And I don't disagree with you regarding "transitioning"....
But there never was a government involvement as we are having now when this situation occurred in New York.
a quick calculation, we can estimate that each day in New York between two and four million lbs of equine excrement were "produced" every day, plus a 33 oz. of urine from each animal at least.
But there was NO Federal/state/city ordering or even more spending $$ on conversion to gas.
There should be a migration but not under federal/world orders! Because generally speaking they fu....k it up!
You wouldn't have the internet if private companies took the DARPA connectivity and expanded on it.
You wouldn't have a cell phone today if it hadn't been for a man I met, who sued AT&T under the famous Carterphone decision!
FACTS: Carterfone - Wikipedia
Us "simple" minds know better than Biden (who probably never knew what an acoustic coupler was used first to connect to a modem to connect at 56kbs to the "INTERNET" how complicated that is! And so this dummy and people like him rather than working WITH the fossil fuel companies tell them he guarantees he'll get rid of them. Hence the Wirths of the world say OK! No more refineries because you are going all out to put us out of business. That is how simple minded Biden and people that don't comprehend i.e. simpler minded... how complicated the world of fossil fuels is!
Look at this picture I took at a plumbing supply store and tell me how will these be replaced if fossil fuels are "rid of" as Biden says!
The essential raw materials for PVC are derived from salt and oil. The electrolysis of salt water produces chlorine, which is combined with ethylene (obtained from oil) to form vinyl chloride monomer (VCM).
In Europe, it is estimated that between 4–6% of oil and gas is used for producing plastics.

Now Biden's "guarantee to get rid of fossil fuels" means something will have to replace oil used to make PVCs.
In 2019, the U.S. production volume of PVC amounted to a total of some 7.2 million metric tons.
What will replace oil in these PVC items?

plasticPVCpipes.jpg
 
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ElmerMudd

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And I don't disagree with you regarding "transitioning"....
But there never was a government involvement as we are having now when this situation occurred in New York.
a quick calculation, we can estimate that each day in New York between two and four million lbs of equine excrement were "produced" every day, plus a 33 oz. of urine from each animal at least.
But there was NO Federal/state/city ordering or even more spending $$ on conversion to gas.
There should be a migration but not under federal/world orders! Because generally speaking they fu....k it up!
You wouldn't have the internet if private companies took the DARPA connectivity and expanded on it.
You wouldn't have a cell phone today if it hadn't been for a man I met, who sued AT&T under the famous Carterphone decision!
FACTS: Carterfone - Wikipedia
Us "simple" minds know better than Biden (who probably never knew what an acoustic coupler was used first to connect to a modem to connect at 56kbs to the "INTERNET" how complicated that is! And so this dummy and people like him rather than working WITH the fossil fuel companies tell them he guarantees he'll get rid of them. Hence the Wirths of the world say OK! No more refineries because you are going all out to put us out of business. That is how simple minded Biden and people that don't comprehend i.e. simpler minded... how complicated the world of fossil fuels is!
Look at this picture I took at a plumbing supply store and tell me how will these be replaced if fossil fuels are "rid of" as Biden says!
The essential raw materials for PVC are derived from salt and oil. The electrolysis of salt water produces chlorine, which is combined with ethylene (obtained from oil) to form vinyl chloride monomer (VCM).
In Europe, it is estimated that between 4–6% of oil and gas is used for producing plastics.

Now Biden's "guarantee to get rid of fossil fuels" means something will have to replace oil used to make PVCs.
In 2019, the U.S. production volume of PVC amounted to a total of some 7.2 million metric tons.
What will replace oil in these PVC items?

View attachment 704134
Humans can be very innovative, especially if there is money to be made. It does not happen over night. Fossil Fuels never go away 100% but you work towards it not against it. The middle east is the one area who will suffer the most as demand for fossil fuels decline.
 

healthmyths

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Humans can be very innovative, especially if there is money to be made. It does not happen over night. Fossil Fuels never go away 100% but you work towards it not against it. The middle east is the one area who will suffer the most as demand for fossil fuels decline.
I agree with you about innovation. Obviously. The issue though is false emergency to get rid of fossil fuels.
Would you explain the following rationale for 1.53º F increase when you read the following.
The attached explains 3 fallacies regarding temperature increases over the last 142 years.
A) Human error in reading and then copying temperatures over 90 years before abandoning thermometers.
See how you'd fair in 30 below and 120 above trying to read that thermometer
B) 12% of the land mass was NOT included.
C) Most of reading stations were in urban areas where concrete, roads, etc. buildings, etc increased the readings.
So explain to me then why the temperature was recalculated!

thermometerproblems.png
 
Last edited:

healthmyths

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Just asking others that may have been reading the comments between ElmerMudd and my self.
Which of us have influenced your opinions and if so why?
The reason I ask is almost all of my comments have substantiation. Not my personal opinion but the sources I offer have some expertise. For example I shared what the CEO of Chevron, Wirth's comments on why there weren't refineries be built and he said...""You're looking at committing capital 10 years out, that will need decades to offer a return for shareholders, in a policy environment where governments around the world are saying, 'We don't want these products to be used in the future.'" and then I offer the link...
 
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ElmerMudd

ElmerMudd

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Just asking others that may have been reading the comments between ElmerMudd and my self.
Which of us have influenced your opinions and if so why?
The reason I ask is almost all of my comments have substantiation. Not my personal opinion but the sources I offer have some expertise. For example I shared what the CEO of Chevron, Wirth's comments on why there weren't refineries be built and he said...""You're looking at committing capital 10 years out, that will need decades to offer a return for shareholders, in a policy environment where governments around the world are saying, 'We don't want these products to be used in the future.'" and then I offer the link...
ElmerMudd has influenced me the most. The guy is brilliant.
 
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ElmerMudd

ElmerMudd

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I agree with you about innovation. Obviously. The issue though is false emergency to get rid of fossil fuels.
Would you explain the following rationale for 1.53º F increase when you read the following.
The attached explains 3 fallacies regarding temperature increases over the last 142 years.
A) Human error in reading and then copying temperatures over 90 years before abandoning thermometers.
See how you'd fair in 30 below and 120 above trying to read that thermometer
B) 12% of the land mass was NOT included.
C) Most of reading stations were in urban areas where concrete, roads, etc. buildings, etc increased the readings.
So explain to me then why the temperature was recalculated!

View attachment 704160
The statistical modeling over the 5 to 10 years utilizes many more metrics than the analysis you provide. I have attached a 15 page summary of new data and the indications the data is providing.
"growing knowledge that global warming may impact financial investments and loss factors farther into the future, a need for catastrophe models to be able to extend a decade or further is becoming highly desirable. Additionally, being able to transform and combine global warming impact models with catastrophe models is vital in communicating to risk analysts and government bodies in a language which they more understand, financials. With the ceiling for potential high it may be possible to direct world leaders in a direction that protects Earth and ourselves from catastrophe."

Besides the analysis you provide and I provide, look at observational metrics; what we see going on. Let's start with Hurricane Ian and the higher instance of catastrophic hurricanes the past few years, drought throughout the world. Look at US cities who have experienced new high temperatures over the past year. In the past, new high temps usually were a degree or so above the old high. Now the new highs are are multiple degrees higher. Look at was happening to our ice packs. You don't have to be a weather scientist to see something is going on.

A very simplistic cost benefit analysis of you being right or wrong compared to me being right or wrong. was provided earlier.

 

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