Can we Implement a Tolerance for all based Solution to Transgenderism among Schoolchildren?

[Seymour Flops]

There is a lot of intolerance surrounding this issue. The problem with those who say that tolerance is the answer is that they often limit that suggestion of tolerance to mean only to tolerate what they themselves are willing to tolerate. Tolerance could solve this issue, but only if we are not selective in what is tolerated.

We should encourage all to tolerate a person who identifies as a different gender. No skin off anyone else's nose, as far as I can see.

Can we also tolerate those who do object to a person representing themselves as the opposite of their biological gender? Can we say, "you're welcome to your opinion," or must we seek to change that opinion? Can we be tolerant of those opinions, hoping that they will change, but accepting that they may not? If we can tolerate those who disagree, then we can end much of the angst that seems to be driving the transgender movement.

If there are parents who do not want their children to express that they are the opposite gender from their biological gender, can such parents be tolerated, and their parental rights left uninfringed? Can teachers and staff advise these children to tolerate their parents' rules, as they must tolerate their parents' curfews, chore expectations, and family visit requirements, as well as the school rules with which they disagree? That would help parents avoid seeing the school as the enemy and help educators avoid seeing parents as terrorists.

If there are parents, teachers, and staff who would not feel honest if they addressed a child by the gender that matches the child's biology, can we tolerate that, or must we apply consequences to change them so that we can tolerate them? Can we advise the transgender students that no one is required to think as they do and that being misgendered need not be a scarring event, if they can practice tolerance of those alternate ways of thinking?

The most important tolerance that should be taught to transgender schoolchildren is tolerance for their own bodies. The healthy human body is an incredibly beautiful machine, capable of serving the human that it embodies, providing for wants and fulfilling needs for a lifetime. Any altering, by surgery or by chemicals, is best left to the child's future adult self. Permanent changes to that beautiful machine have far too great a potential downside for such decisions to be made by a child.

Can we tolerate that idea, and convince transgender children to tolerate it?

There may indeed be people who are so convinced that their body does not match their gender that they will never be happy unless they can have that body altered. Fine, so long as they are old enough to make such a decision. But we should not allow them to do that before a certain age, anymore than we allow them to drop out of school, or join the military, or get a tattoo, or visit a brothel, when they are fourteen, no matter how strongly they identify as a gung-ho Marine or the like.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

There is a lot of intolerance surrounding this issue. The problem with those who say that tolerance is the answer is that they often limit that suggestion of tolerance to mean only to tolerate what they themselves are willing to tolerate. Tolerance could solve this issue, but only if we are not selective in what is tolerated.

We should encourage all to tolerate a person who identifies as a different gender. No skin off anyone else's nose, as far as I can see.

Can we also tolerate those who do object to a person representing themselves as the opposite of their biological gender? Can we say, "you're welcome to your opinion," or must we seek to change that opinion? Can we be tolerant of those opinions, hoping that they will change, but accepting that they may not? If we can tolerate those who disagree, then we can end much of the angst that seems to be driving the transgender movement.

If there are parents who do not want their children to express that they are the opposite gender from their biological gender, can such parents be tolerated, and their parental rights left uninfringed? Can teachers and staff advise these children to tolerate their parents' rules, as they must tolerate their parents' curfews, chore expectations, and family visit requirements, as well as the school rules with which they disagree? That would help parents avoid seeing the school as the enemy and help educators avoid seeing parents as terrorists.

If there are parents, teachers, and staff who would not feel honest if they addressed a child by the gender that matches the child's biology, can we tolerate that, or must we apply consequences to change them so that we can tolerate them? Can we advise the transgender students that no one is required to think as they do and that being misgendered need not be a scarring event, if they can practice tolerance of those alternate ways of thinking?

The most important tolerance that should be taught to transgender schoolchildren is tolerance for their own bodies. The healthy human body is an incredibly beautiful machine, capable of serving the human that it embodies, providing for wants and fulfilling needs for a lifetime. Any altering, by surgery or by chemicals, is best left to the child's future adult self. Permanent changes to that beautiful machine have far too great a potential downside for such decisions to be made by a child.

Can we tolerate that idea, and convince transgender children to tolerate it?

There may indeed be people who are so convinced that their body does not match their gender that they will never be happy unless they can have that body altered. Fine, so long as they are old enough to make such a decision. But we should not allow them to do that before a certain age, anymore than we allow them to drop out of school, or join the military, or get a tattoo, or visit a brothel, when they are fourteen, no matter how strongly they identify as a gung-ho Marine or the like.

Did you write this?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Did you write this?

Yes. All my posts are pretty wordy.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

Yes. All my posts are pretty wordy.

Lol......Ya think

Could you summarize that in 3 sentences?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Lol......Ya think

Could you summarize that in 3 sentences?

Sure:

Tolerate transgenders and tolerate those who do not meet transgenders' expectations. Kids can't sign contracts that bind them beyond their majority since they are too young for such a commitment. The same applies to altering their bodies.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

Call me a hater all you want but I will never enable a harmful delusion by calling anyone by anything other than their biological gender.
If you were born with a penis I'm gonna call you a dude. I don't care if you wear a dress & wig or call yourself Caitlin, you will always be Bruce Jenner to me.
Same with women.
Gender dysphoria, particularly for children, is an extremely dangerous & harmful mental disorder & you are doing them no favors by enabling their genuine struggles

Largest Survey Of Transgender And Nonbinary Youth Says More Than Half Seriously Considered Suicide

“We have found greater levels of support and acceptance is associated with dramatically lower rates of attempting suicide. This includes the powerful role of gender-affirming care and support for transgender and nonbinary youth."

www.forbes.com

Suicidality Among Transgender Youth: Elucidating the Role of Interpersonal Risk Factors - PubMed

Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth. Using minority stress theory and the interpersonal theory of suicide, this study aims to better understand suicide risk among...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Schools are tormenting children into being transgender and driving them to suicide.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Call me a hater all you want but I will never enable a harmful delusion by calling anyone by anything other than their biological gender.
If you were born with a penis I'm gonna call you a dude. I don't care if you wear a dress & wig or call yourself Caitlin, you will always be Bruce Jenner to me.

I tolerate your opinion on that.

I address people, including children, by whatever name and pronoun they ask me to, so long as a parent has not asked me specifically to only use the pronoun and name selected by the parents.

If you can tolerate that, we are moving in the right direction.

Same with women.
Gender dysphoria, particularly for children, is an extremely dangerous & harmful mental disorder & you are doing them no favors by enabling their genuine struggles

Largest Survey Of Transgender And Nonbinary Youth Says More Than Half Seriously Considered Suicide

“We have found greater levels of support and acceptance is associated with dramatically lower rates of attempting suicide. This includes the powerful role of gender-affirming care and support for transgender and nonbinary youth."

www.forbes.com

Suicidality Among Transgender Youth: Elucidating the Role of Interpersonal Risk Factors - PubMed

Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth. Using minority stress theory and the interpersonal theory of suicide, this study aims to better understand suicide risk among...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I tolerate your opinion on that.


Unfortunately, there is one group who will not. That is the transgender treatment industry. They need for children to start such treatment early, lest the children grow up and decide against it. In that way, the transgender treatment industry are very much like the tobacco industry.

 

[Meriweather]

There is a lot of intolerance surrounding this issue.

• When I was in grammar school I truly felt somehow I got put on the wrong planet.
• 
  
• I had this idea that on my 10th birthday, I would wake up feeling different because I would be in the double digits. I didn't.
• 
  
• When I was in the fifth grade, I decided I didn't want to grow up; I liked being a child.
• 
  
• I did not feel like a woman when I had my first period, first intercourse, was pregnant, was giving birth.

I am intolerant of all this hogwash being foisted on young people--that they are supposed to "feel" something, and if they don't, it must be because they are the "wrong" something. They are right exactly who they are. Let them be themselves. Remind them of that famous quote: "You have to be you. Everyone else is taken." Assure them they are loved for who they are already.

A recent study tells us that most people don't feel like an adult until they are thirty. I am twice that. I still don't feel like an adult, however that is supposed to feel.

All my life, I never felt like anyone or anything other than me. Meriweather. How is a female supposed to feel? How is a male supposed to feel? How is an adult supposed to feel? Even though I wanted to remain a child, I am glad I grew up because I got to do more things on my own. I loved taking care of myself. I loved being pregnant and giving birth, even though I was in my 30s at the time. What if, when I was in school, society made me worry about not feeling whatever it is females are "supposed" to feel. Maybe I got so worried I went through surgeries and began gulping hormones. I would have missed the best parts of my life, simply because I was not allowed to grow up because of all the crazy adults who decided they knew something better.

Baby Boomers: Remember when our motto was, "Never trust anyone over thirty?" That may have been the wisest thing that came out of that time period.

 

[Hellokitty]

Sure:

Tolerate transgenders and tolerate those who do not meet transgenders' expectations. Kids can't sign contracts that bind them beyond their majority since they are too young for such a commitment. The same applies to altering their bodies.

WTF, NO we can not tolerate indoctrinating/grooming children to believe they can change their biological sex.

 

[Seymour Flops]

• When I was in grammar school I truly felt somehow I got put on the wrong planet.
• 
  
• I had this idea that on my 10th birthday, I would wake up feeling different because I would be in the double digits. I didn't.
• 
  
• When I was in the fifth grade, I decided I didn't want to grow up; I liked being a child.
• 
  
• I did not feel like a woman when I had my first period, first intercourse, was pregnant, was giving birth.

I am intolerant of all this hogwash being foisted on young people--that they are supposed to "feel" something, and if they don't, it must be because they are the "wrong" something. They are right exactly who they are. Let them be themselves. Remind them of that famous quote: "You have to be you. Everyone else is taken." Assure them they are loved for who they are already.

A recent study tells us that most people don't feel like an adult until they are thirty. I am twice that. I still don't feel like an adult, however that is supposed to feel.

All my life, I never felt like anyone or anything other than me. Meriweather. How is a female supposed to feel? How is a male supposed to feel? How is an adult supposed to feel? Even though I wanted to remain a child, I am glad I grew up because I got to do more things on my own. I loved taking care of myself. I loved being pregnant and giving birth, even though I was in my 30s at the time. What if, when I was in school, society made me worry about not feeling whatever it is females are "supposed" to feel. Maybe I got so worried I went through surgeries and began gulping hormones. I would have missed the best parts of my life, simply because I was not allowed to grow up because of all the crazy adults who decided they knew something better.

Baby Boomers: Remember when our motto was, "Never trust anyone over thirty?" That may have been the wisest thing that came out of that time period.

Wise words, Meriweather. I also just passed the twice thirty mark. The closest I ever came to feeling like a grown up was realizing that I probably would never grow up. Kurt Vonnegutt said that "Maturity is a bitter disappointment for which no remedy exists, unless laughter could be said to remedy anything." I've never felt that bitter disappointment, so I have never achieved that maturity.

 

[Seymour Flops]

WTF, NO we can not tolerate indoctrinating/grooming children to believe they can change their biological sex.

You got from those three sentences that I want to tolerate indoctrinating/grooming children to believe they can change their biological sex?

Hang on Sloopy, that's why my posts are wordy, to avoid being so wildly misunderstood.

 

[Hellokitty]

You got from those three sentences that I want to tolerate indoctrinating/grooming children to believe they can change their biological sex?

Hang on Sloopy, that's why my posts are wordy, to avoid being so wildly misunderstood.

I get what you're saying with tolerance and what I'm saying is just how an educator wouldn't encourage a child to believe they can become a cat they shouldn't encourage a child to believe they can become the opposite sex. It's really unbelievable how the medical community allowed itself to be held hostage by the trans-activists. And no I don't agree with letting the medical community to promote transition as long as one 18. We wouldn't tolerate doctors prescribing weight loss medications and surgeries to anorexics, but we're suppose to tolerate a doctor preforming hysterectomies and mastectomies on 18 year old girls.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I get what you're saying with tolerance and what I'm saying is just how an educator wouldn't encourage a child to believe they can become a cat they shouldn't encourage a child to believe they can become the opposite sex. It's really unbelievable how the medical community allowed itself to be held hostage by the trans-activists. And no I don't agree with letting the medical community to promote transition as long as one 18. We wouldn't tolerate doctors prescribing weight loss medications and surgeries to anorexics, but we're suppose to tolerate a doctor preforming hysterectomies and mastectomies on 18 year old girls.

You make some good points.

I think that the medical community outside of the transgender medicine industry should be speaking out against the transgender treatment industry. Just as they would speak out against the quacks you describe giving weight loss medicine to anorexics. The ethical rules for transgender care should not be left only to those who stand to profit most from it.

Doctors who make a living doing transgender surgeries, and their partners in the medical, psychiatry, psychology, and counseling communities are not going to listen to us laymen.

The weight loss meds for anorexics and other such quacks are few enough that the medical community can police them, and the law will not protect the quacks. But the quacks who offer "transgender care," instead of psychiatric treatment for gender dysphoria are numerous and backed by the LGBT movement, which is backed in turn by the Democratic Party.

As a libertarian, I am loath to interfere with the right of an adult to make even a bad decision like self-mutilation as "transgender treatment." I would like to see the age for such decisions raised to twenty-one, but if it can be at least held at eighteen, that is a step in the right direction.

EDIT TO ADD:

You may feel that, as an educator, I am encouraging a child to believe that he or she can become the opposite sex by using the child's preferred pronouns. Not my intent at all. My intent is to model that the child can use those pronouns without resorting to medical and surgical alterations of their bodies.

 

[Hellokitty]

You make some good points.

I think that the medical community outside of the transgender medicine industry should be speaking out against the transgender treatment industry. Just as they would speak out against the quacks you describe giving weight loss medicine to anorexics. The ethical rules for transgender care should not be left only to those who stand to profit most from it.

Doctors who make a living doing transgender surgeries, and their partners in the medical, psychiatry, psychology, and counseling communities are not going to listen to us laymen.

The weight loss meds for anorexics and other such quacks are few enough that the medical community can police them, and the law will not protect the quacks. But the quacks who offer "transgender care," instead of psychiatric treatment for gender dysphoria are numerous and backed by the LGBT movement, which is backed in turn by the Democratic Party.

As a libertarian, I am loath to interfere with the right of an adult to make even a bad decision like self-mutilation as "transgender treatment." I would like to see the age for such decisions raised to twenty-one, but if it can be at least held at eighteen, that is a step in the right direction.

EDIT TO ADD:

You may feel that, as an educator, I am encouraging a child to believe that he or she can become the opposite sex by using the child's preferred pronouns. Not my intent at all. My intent is to model that the child can use those pronouns without resorting to medical and surgical alterations of their bodies.

Thanks for your reply. I didn't mean for my comments to sound harsh against you as a teacher because I know 1st hand dealing with children/teens struggling with identity issues is hard as no one wants to do anything that might cause them more emotional pain.

You are naive on the subject if you don't understand almost 100% of mental/medical health care professionals practice affirmative care/treatment for transgender/gender dysphoria. Many do so out of fear of having their careers destroyed by trans activists. This is why I don't support medical transgender treatments specifically surgeries, because the individual is not receiving ethical mental/medical healthcare to make an informed consent.

If you or anyone else whats to get a better understanding of this issue I would encourage you to read trans reddit and other social media sites where you will quickly see a pattern of how many kids/teens are being indoctrinated. And after that search out social media for detransitioners. You will also see a pattern of how they all express having no one in the medical community challenge their thinking or explain to them the longterm in many cases irreversible effects of treatments. It's heartbreaking because even the ones who have the courage to tell their stories tread lightly out of fear from the trans activist.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Thanks for your reply. I didn't mean for my comments to sound harsh against you as a teacher because I know 1st hand dealing with children/teens struggling with identity issues is hard as no one wants to do anything that might cause them more emotional pain.

You are naive on the subject if you don't understand almost 100% of mental/medical health care professionals practice affirmative care/treatment for transgender/gender dysphoria. Many do so out of fear of having their careers destroyed by trans activists. This is why I don't support medical transgender treatments specifically surgeries, because the individual is not receiving ethical mental/medical healthcare to make an informed consent.

There is a lot of truth to that.

If you or anyone else whats to get a better understanding of this issue I would encourage you to read trans reddit and other social media sites where you will quickly see a pattern of how many kids/teens are being indoctrinated. And after that search out social media for detransitioners. You will also see a pattern of how they all express having no one in the medical community challenge their thinking or explain to them the longterm in many cases irreversible effects of treatments. It's heartbreaking because even the ones who have the courage to tell their stories tread lightly out of fear from the trans activist.

I'll check that out, thanks.

 

[Cougarbear]

There is a lot of intolerance surrounding this issue. The problem with those who say that tolerance is the answer is that they often limit that suggestion of tolerance to mean only to tolerate what they themselves are willing to tolerate. Tolerance could solve this issue, but only if we are not selective in what is tolerated.

We should encourage all to tolerate a person who identifies as a different gender. No skin off anyone else's nose, as far as I can see.

Can we also tolerate those who do object to a person representing themselves as the opposite of their biological gender? Can we say, "you're welcome to your opinion," or must we seek to change that opinion? Can we be tolerant of those opinions, hoping that they will change, but accepting that they may not? If we can tolerate those who disagree, then we can end much of the angst that seems to be driving the transgender movement.

If there are parents who do not want their children to express that they are the opposite gender from their biological gender, can such parents be tolerated, and their parental rights left uninfringed? Can teachers and staff advise these children to tolerate their parents' rules, as they must tolerate their parents' curfews, chore expectations, and family visit requirements, as well as the school rules with which they disagree? That would help parents avoid seeing the school as the enemy and help educators avoid seeing parents as terrorists.

If there are parents, teachers, and staff who would not feel honest if they addressed a child by the gender that matches the child's biology, can we tolerate that, or must we apply consequences to change them so that we can tolerate them? Can we advise the transgender students that no one is required to think as they do and that being misgendered need not be a scarring event, if they can practice tolerance of those alternate ways of thinking?

The most important tolerance that should be taught to transgender schoolchildren is tolerance for their own bodies. The healthy human body is an incredibly beautiful machine, capable of serving the human that it embodies, providing for wants and fulfilling needs for a lifetime. Any altering, by surgery or by chemicals, is best left to the child's future adult self. Permanent changes to that beautiful machine have far too great a potential downside for such decisions to be made by a child.

Can we tolerate that idea, and convince transgender children to tolerate it?

There may indeed be people who are so convinced that their body does not match their gender that they will never be happy unless they can have that body altered. Fine, so long as they are old enough to make such a decision. But we should not allow them to do that before a certain age, anymore than we allow them to drop out of school, or join the military, or get a tattoo, or visit a brothel, when they are fourteen, no matter how strongly they identify as a gung-ho Marine or the like.

Tolerance with this is best exemplified by Klinger on the TV series Mash. They just went along with it occasionally making funny comments and Klinger didn't get his women's panties all wadded up in a bunch. He also didn't demand a different bathroom than his male parts told him to go into. He used the men's latrine. The problem actually exists with the LGBTQ crowd with their idiotic stupid demands. If they would stop it, they could go about their business more peacefully.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Tolerance with this is best exemplified by Klinger on the TV series Mash. They just went along with it occasionally making funny comments and Klinger didn't get his women's panties all wadded up in a bunch. He also didn't demand a different bathroom than his male parts told him to go into. He used the men's latrine. The problem actually exists with the LGBTQ crowd with their idiotic stupid demands. If they would stop it, they could go about their business more peacefully.

Great example.

When the LGBT-Q folks demand to (openly) use bathrooms opposite their biological gender, to have consequences against people who "misgender" them, and other nonsense, they are not asking for acceptance. They are asking to control the behavior of others to suit themselves. Pretty much the opposite of what the United States was founded to be.

The LGBT-Q activists will win on the bathroom issue, but it will be a pyric victory. The corporations, and government agencies that provide the overwhelming majority of public bathrooms will bow to pressure and make bathrooms unisex and for a single occupant at a time. That will be great expense, and great inconvenience, but the left will have another one for the win column.

 

[Cougarbear]

Great example.

When the LGBT-Q folks demand to (openly) use bathrooms opposite their biological gender, to have consequences against people who "misgender" them, and other nonsense, they are not asking for acceptance. They are asking to control the behavior of others to suit themselves. Pretty much the opposite of what the United States was founded to be.

The LGBT-Q activists will win on the bathroom issue, but it will be a pyric victory. The corporations, and government agencies that provide the overwhelming majority of public bathrooms will bow to pressure and make bathrooms unisex and for a single occupant at a time. That will be great expense, and great inconvenience, but the left will have another one for the win column.

I don't see them winning on this issue. Where do you see it? The places where a child or woman has been raped is really stalling this. And, the fact that people are waking up to the woke nonsense is helping too.

 

[Coyote]

Call me a hater all you want but I will never enable a harmful delusion by calling anyone by anything other than their biological gender.
If you were born with a penis I'm gonna call you a dude. I don't care if you wear a dress & wig or call yourself Caitlin, you will always be Bruce Jenner to me.
Same with women.
Gender dysphoria, particularly for children, is an extremely dangerous & harmful mental disorder & you are doing them no favors by enabling their genuine struggles

Largest Survey Of Transgender And Nonbinary Youth Says More Than Half Seriously Considered Suicide

“We have found greater levels of support and acceptance is associated with dramatically lower rates of attempting suicide. This includes the powerful role of gender-affirming care and support for transgender and nonbinary youth."

www.forbes.com

Suicidality Among Transgender Youth: Elucidating the Role of Interpersonal Risk Factors - PubMed

Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth. Using minority stress theory and the interpersonal theory of suicide, this study aims to better understand suicide risk among...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Your Forbes source seems to disagree with you.