Bush's trillion dollar tax increase

[jreeves]

Age discrimination? Absolutely. I want a president who is smart, fit, and on top of his game. I am tired of having a president who wrecked his brain on alcohol and coccaine.

So are you a Republican or were you a Republican?

 

[jreeves]

Age discrimination? Absolutely. I want a president who is smart, fit, and on top of his game. I am tired of having a president who wrecked his brain on alcohol and coccaine.

Well, I have to tell you that's suprising isn't equal right's for all a liberal ideal? Tell me exactly how you would know Obama is smart and on top of his game if you don't even know what his plans are? That would be opposed to have your brain wrecked by weed correct?

 

[editec]

The raging deficit is the Republican's fault, plain and simple.

They cut taxces on Billionaires and then take us to a war they're BORROWING to pay for.

Anyone who can't understand that is a damned fool.

And yes McCain is too damned old to be POTUS.

His "advisors" will end up running the show just like they did for Bush who was too damned lazy to be POTUS.

 

[Chris]

Well, I have to tell you that's suprising isn't equal right's for all a liberal ideal? Tell me exactly how you would know Obama is smart and on top of his game if you don't even know what his plans are? That would be opposed to have your brain wrecked by weed correct?

Insults are not convincing arguments.

For the last eight years the real problems of this country have been ignored while Don Quixote has chased windmills in Iraq. Obama is the only candidate that has said he wants to get out of Iraq. That's good enough for me.

 

[jreeves]

Insults are not convincing arguments.

For the last eight years the real problems of this country have been ignored while Don Quixote has chased windmills in Iraq. Obama is the only candidate that has said he wants to get out of Iraq. That's good enough for me.

How was I insulting you? I was showing you how your selection of a candidate is not based on logic.

 

[Care4all]

Where does your article say anything about funding a war in Iraq? I think you need to re-read the article that's not even close to what it was saying. I would say that social spending plays a larger role in the 1 trillion dollar investment by China than does military spending....Since it is the single largest expenditure by the US government.

Not really.....

I mean, what is the BIGGEST EXPENSE paid with our Income taxes.....?

CERTAINLY NOT social spending as you seem to be calling Social Security, being that Social Security is NOT paid for by our Income taxes?

Is it Medicare that you are speaking about as the largest spending? Even some of that expense is NOT paid for by our income taxes, but via a Medicare tax that workers pay, though I do realize it does fall SHORT and income taxes are footing a great deal of this bill....

It is my understanding that the LARGEST expense that we pay with our INCOME TAXES is the MILLITARY/Penetegon/Defense/homeland Security area.....

with THE INTEREST PAYMENT on our DEBT as the SECOND largest expense of the federal government with our income taxes collected, reaching near $300 BILLION a year when all is said and done on our DEBT payments?

Since GWB took office our Millitary/Defense spending has INCREASED 30-40% a year, every year is what i have read?

Iraq is only a small part of these increases in huge Defense spending....

The Military/Defense areas are the largest areas of spending and the LARGEST areas of pure waste.....no bid contracts, no accountability what so ever in many areas....ie: the Pentegon could not accout for $3 TRILLION.....which eventually boiled down to $1.5 TRILLION unaccounted for money...., and the millions and billions unaccounted for spent in Iraq like cash just handed out, and contractors billing us millions for services they never rendered....


Care

 

[editec]

Spot on CARE4all.

The liberal sacred cow (welfare) was cut down to size by Cltinton...that is exactly why the neo-cons hate him so (stealing their main talking point)

The conservative scared cow (the military welfare system) just keeps getting more and more out of control.

It a sad sad state of affairs in America when the best job available for most young people just starting out is in uniform.

 

[Gunny]

Spot on CARE4all.

The liberal sacred cow (welfare) was cut down to size by Cltinton...that is exactly why the neo-cons hate him so (stealing their main talking point)

The conservative scared cow (the military welfare system) just keeps getting more and more out of control.

It a sad sad state of affairs in America when the best job available for most young people just starting out is in uniform.

Military welfare system? LMFAO. Yeah, cuz we we're all paid SO well. The military is best bang for the buck you'll ever spend. What do you get out of welfare recipients? Nothing.

And I must have missed that Clinton cutting welfare down to size. It looks like the same out of control hydra it's always been. Playing a shell game with the $ doesn't change that a bit.

 

[Care4all]

Please don't take my statement wrong....

The Military/Defense SHOULD BE our biggest expense paid with our income taxes....I am not disputing such.

What I am saying is that the Military/Defense budgets are "out of control" in their increases for such each year WITHOUT any true accountability of it all, which has lead to malfeasance by some and just pure waste by others and this can be a huge savings IF CONGRESS would actually do their jobs.

I am not saying the Military personell is overpaid by any stretch....I happen to know what POOR really is, growing up in an enlisted Service man's family all my life....

Though my parents have it GOOD now as seniors, having their medical care covering most all between TriCare and Medicare and of course my father's retirement....

And I don't consider such welfare, but money he earned as a benefit to make his LOW salary worth more in order to keep him in the Military....verses the Private sector. Then when my father left the Military he went to work for the FAA for another 20 years and because of a law put in to place under Reagan regarding "Double Dipping", my father had to CHOOSE WHICH retirement he wanted to take even though he spent 22 years with the military and then another 20 years with the FAA, the law change WOULD NOT LET HIM DRAW the TWO retirements that HE EARNED through the years he gave them both, the Military and then the FAA....

So, I don't think things have been that great for those that have served us for a minimum of 20 years if they ended up going to work for our government another 20 years only civil service.....not those like my dad that had to give one of those EARNED retirements up....

But this is getting off topic....

Anyway, I think that Edi and gunny have some good points regarding all of this, and one does not overshaddow the other....there is excess spending, malfeasance, and downright NOT being good stewards of our money by Congress all around.

And this overspending by Congress has certainly hurt us and IS A TAX increase so to say, on all of us by the Dollar devaluation...

Care

 

[jreeves]

Not really.....

I mean, what is the BIGGEST EXPENSE paid with our Income taxes.....?

CERTAINLY NOT social spending as you seem to be calling Social Security, being that Social Security is NOT paid for by our Income taxes?

Is it Medicare that you are speaking about as the largest spending? Even some of that expense is NOT paid for by our income taxes, but via a Medicare tax that workers pay, though I do realize it does fall SHORT and income taxes are footing a great deal of this bill....

It is my understanding that the LARGEST expense that we pay with our INCOME TAXES is the MILLITARY/Penetegon/Defense/homeland Security area.....

with THE INTEREST PAYMENT on our DEBT as the SECOND largest expense of the federal government with our income taxes collected, reaching near $300 BILLION a year when all is said and done on our DEBT payments?

Since GWB took office our Millitary/Defense spending has INCREASED 30-40% a year, every year is what i have read?

Iraq is only a small part of these increases in huge Defense spending....

The Military/Defense areas are the largest areas of spending and the LARGEST areas of pure waste.....no bid contracts, no accountability what so ever in many areas....ie: the Pentegon could not accout for $3 TRILLION.....which eventually boiled down to $1.5 TRILLION unaccounted for money...., and the millions and billions unaccounted for spent in Iraq like cash just handed out, and contractors billing us millions for services they never rendered....


Care

yawn.....
Grandfather Federal Government Spending Report - summary - by MWHodges

 

[Care4all]

yawn.....
Grandfather Federal Government Spending Report - summary - by MWHodges
View attachment 5670

yawn and a big sigh.....



JUST as I said in my post reeves, your figures INCLUDES social security spending, which is paid for by social security taxes collected from workers.

it is absolutely disingenuous to include SS in with what we collect income taxes to pay for....and the writer of your link did such to deceive imho.

Stick with what congress can affect and with what is in their budget to spend with our income taxes.....the military/defense spending IS our biggest expense with general revenues, as i stated.

care

 

[Chris]

Government spending went out of control when Bush took office. His ridiculous "war on terror" is the biggest boondoggle in American history. It will end up costing us trillions of dollars while Bin Laden sips tea in a cave in Pakistan.

 

[Gunny]

Government spending went out of control when Bush took office. His ridiculous "war on terror" is the biggest boondoggle in American history. It will end up costing us trillions of dollars while Bin Laden sips tea in a cave in Pakistan.

Government spending has been out of control as long as I've been alive, so try again. Trying to pin it solely on Bush is just blind partisan rhetoric.

Try taking a good look at the pork spending by Democrats in both Houses of Congress before you go trying to stick it on just one side, or just one person.

They're all equally guilty.

The War on Terror is hardly the biggest boondoggle in American history, and again, Congress, not just the GOP, approved it and handed over their authority to Bush.

You on the other hand are playing the game just the way they want you to. You're so busy pointing fingers at one side or the other you aren't watching what the entire bunch of bullshitters is doing.

 

[Chris]

Government spending has been out of control as long as I've been alive, so try again. Trying to pin it solely on Bush is just blind partisan rhetoric.

Try taking a good look at the pork spending by Democrats in both Houses of Congress before you go trying to stick it on just one side, or just one person.

They're all equally guilty.

The War on Terror is hardly the biggest boondoggle in American history, and again, Congress, not just the GOP, approved it and handed over their authority to Bush.

You on the other hand are playing the game just the way they want you to. You're so busy pointing fingers at one side or the other you aren't watching what the entire bunch of bullshitters is doing.

Congress was controlled by the GOP during the first 6 years of Bush's term. Here are the facts....

U.S. National Debt Graph

 

[jreeves]

yawn and a big sigh.....



JUST as I said in my post reeves, your figures INCLUDES social security spending, which is paid for by social security taxes collected from workers.

it is absolutely disingenuous to include SS in with what we collect income taxes to pay for....and the writer of your link did such to deceive imho.

Stick with what congress can affect and with what is in their budget to spend with our income taxes.....the military/defense spending IS our biggest expense with general revenues, as i stated.

care

I guess over 4 trillion dollars being siphoned from trust funds that are being used for general programs is what you are talking about correct?

Of that total, according to the Treasury Dept., $4 trillion was owed to trust funds, because the general government siphoned-off all surpluses that should have been kept in those trust fund accounts for specific use - - like federal employee and senior pensions. After siphoning off trust funds for other uses they placed non-marketable IOUs in the trust accounts instead of marketable assets - - with no budget to pay-back the trust funds.

Trust funds include many different special trust accounts: such as the social security trust fund, the federal employee retirement fund, federal hospital trust fund, railroad retirement fund, military retirement fund, employee life insurance fund, etc.

The practice of siphoning-off trust fund surpluses to spend on non-trust stuff is a way of camouflaging general government deficit spending, making it appear to be in surplus when it's really in deficit - - - or making it appear that a huge deficit is just a modest deficit. Politicians like this practice, but such is dangerous to the financial health of future retirees and our young generation - - and such undermines citizen trust in government..

Note the left chart showing exploding debt owed to trust funds - - an increase of $3 trillion during the past 16 years - - or 428% higher.

After bragging in the late 1990s about budget surpluses, when in fact the general government was in deficit (not surplus) despite the highest tax revenue share of the economy in peace-time history, we know they were claiming trust fund surpluses as their own. They were understating their claimed deficits by mixing in surpluses of trust funds.

According to the above chart, 4 trillion of the general federal government government's $9 trillion debt is owed to the group of trust funds.. As we will see below, $2 trillion (of that $4 trillion) is owed just to the social security trust fund. The government never budgets paying back its $4 trillion debt to trust funds with its own money. Why should we allow FICA and trust surpluses to be siphoned-off to pay for programs of the general government for other stuff, like welfare, military, education, etc. - instead of retained in marketable assets for the purposes intended? Its smoke and mirrors. The general government should run its own surpluses for that purpose, not siphon from others.

Grandfather Trust Fund & Deficit Report - by MWHodges

Trust funds, including Social Security, has become nothing more than another avenue politicians use to spend taxpayers money.

 

[Chris]

I guess over 4 trillion dollars being siphoned from trust funds that are being used for general programs is what you are talking about correct?

Of that total, according to the Treasury Dept., $4 trillion was owed to trust funds, because the general government siphoned-off all surpluses that should have been kept in those trust fund accounts for specific use - - like federal employee and senior pensions. After siphoning off trust funds for other uses they placed non-marketable IOUs in the trust accounts instead of marketable assets - - with no budget to pay-back the trust funds.

Trust funds include many different special trust accounts: such as the social security trust fund, the federal employee retirement fund, federal hospital trust fund, railroad retirement fund, military retirement fund, employee life insurance fund, etc.

The practice of siphoning-off trust fund surpluses to spend on non-trust stuff is a way of camouflaging general government deficit spending, making it appear to be in surplus when it's really in deficit - - - or making it appear that a huge deficit is just a modest deficit. Politicians like this practice, but such is dangerous to the financial health of future retirees and our young generation - - and such undermines citizen trust in government..

Note the left chart showing exploding debt owed to trust funds - - an increase of $3 trillion during the past 16 years - - or 428% higher.

After bragging in the late 1990s about budget surpluses, when in fact the general government was in deficit (not surplus) despite the highest tax revenue share of the economy in peace-time history, we know they were claiming trust fund surpluses as their own. They were understating their claimed deficits by mixing in surpluses of trust funds.

According to the above chart, 4 trillion of the general federal government government's $9 trillion debt is owed to the group of trust funds.. As we will see below, $2 trillion (of that $4 trillion) is owed just to the social security trust fund. The government never budgets paying back its $4 trillion debt to trust funds with its own money. Why should we allow FICA and trust surpluses to be siphoned-off to pay for programs of the general government for other stuff, like welfare, military, education, etc. - instead of retained in marketable assets for the purposes intended? Its smoke and mirrors. The general government should run its own surpluses for that purpose, not siphon from others.

Grandfather Trust Fund & Deficit Report - by MWHodges

Trust funds, including Social Security, has become nothing more than another avenue politicians use to spend taxpayers money.

It is unbelievable isn't it? The people should be outraged, but they aren't.

 

[jreeves]

I guess over 4 trillion dollars being siphoned from trust funds that are being used for general programs is what you are talking about correct?

Of that total, according to the Treasury Dept., $4 trillion was owed to trust funds, because the general government siphoned-off all surpluses that should have been kept in those trust fund accounts for specific use - - like federal employee and senior pensions. After siphoning off trust funds for other uses they placed non-marketable IOUs in the trust accounts instead of marketable assets - - with no budget to pay-back the trust funds.

Trust funds include many different special trust accounts: such as the social security trust fund, the federal employee retirement fund, federal hospital trust fund, railroad retirement fund, military retirement fund, employee life insurance fund, etc.

The practice of siphoning-off trust fund surpluses to spend on non-trust stuff is a way of camouflaging general government deficit spending, making it appear to be in surplus when it's really in deficit - - - or making it appear that a huge deficit is just a modest deficit. Politicians like this practice, but such is dangerous to the financial health of future retirees and our young generation - - and such undermines citizen trust in government..

Note the left chart showing exploding debt owed to trust funds - - an increase of $3 trillion during the past 16 years - - or 428% higher.

After bragging in the late 1990s about budget surpluses, when in fact the general government was in deficit (not surplus) despite the highest tax revenue share of the economy in peace-time history, we know they were claiming trust fund surpluses as their own. They were understating their claimed deficits by mixing in surpluses of trust funds.

According to the above chart, 4 trillion of the general federal government government's $9 trillion debt is owed to the group of trust funds.. As we will see below, $2 trillion (of that $4 trillion) is owed just to the social security trust fund. The government never budgets paying back its $4 trillion debt to trust funds with its own money. Why should we allow FICA and trust surpluses to be siphoned-off to pay for programs of the general government for other stuff, like welfare, military, education, etc. - instead of retained in marketable assets for the purposes intended? Its smoke and mirrors. The general government should run its own surpluses for that purpose, not siphon from others.

Grandfather Trust Fund & Deficit Report - by MWHodges

Trust funds, including Social Security, has become nothing more than another avenue politicians use to spend taxpayers money.

Another big yawn....



That's not counting Medicare spending which is drawn from general tax funds.

 

[jreeves]

It is unbelievable isn't it? The people should be outraged, but they aren't.

I am, if a CEO or somebody in the private sector had done the same thing they would be locked up in prison right now.

 

[editec]

Military welfare system? LMFAO. Yeah, cuz we we're all paid SO well. The military is best bang for the buck you'll ever spend. What do you get out of welfare recipients? Nothing.

And I must have missed that Clinton cutting welfare down to size. It looks like the same out of control hydra it's always been. Playing a shell game with the $ doesn't change that a bit.

Yes, apparently you did miss it.

You really ought to try to keep up.

 

[jreeves]

Yes, apparently you did miss it.

You really ought to try to keep up.

Really, Clinton cut social programs, he was President in the 90's right??

Grandfather Federal Government Debt Report - page 1 - by MWHodges
Look closely at that red line on social spending. Note 3 points: (1)the acceleration starting mid-1960s, (2) this stopped rising (and declined) in the 1980s for the first time in 4 decades, (3)only to rise again thereafter to a record high in the 1990s.]