Bundy Caught Lying about "Ancestral Rights"

[Sallow]

The BLM is above the law, at least according to people like you, and especially when it screws over people you don't like. His statement wasn't specific enough, and the evidence shown isn't detailed enough to call anything a "lie" except in the minds of people who have the answer before even asking the question.

Did the BLM allow him to graze previously?
Did the BLM change the amount of cattle he was allowed to graze?
Is that amount below the number needed to make his business viable?
Was the intent of the new reg to put ranchers out of business to protect a tortoise?

He's not my champion. His strongest point is probably that he's pissing off government stooges like you.

Now go slurp some government dick. its time.

I dont think you get how this works. The BLM is in charge of managing the land for the public. They are not there to make life easier for some random ranchers. They set the rules and regulations not the other way around. Get over it. I've never been mad at Bundy. I thought he was a joke the moment I researched the story. Its been pure comedy every since watching you retards support him.

Cattle ranchers are for the public, they supply our beef.
BLM has been putting them out of business.

They are NOT for the public.

They are private enterprise.

They are FOR the profit.

 

[martybegan]

If your business depends on using something you don't own, I call that stupid and scary. Somehow I doubt Bundy supplies all of our beef. Besides beef is not good for you.

So a business that depends on roads is thus "stupid and scary?" My house is stupid and scary because I rely on electricity water and gas from something "I don't own?"

He provides beef that is raised the way the treehuggers and animal lovers want it to be. On the open range, and not in feedlots.

Do you think before you post?

I think you are reaching for a moral victory here. It wont work. Yes depending on a road you dont own to operate your business is stupid and scary. What if it floods or is torn up. Now you are out of business. Your house is not your business. Its your personal property. Do you think before you post?

So a business is supposed to own all the roads in its supply and delivery chain?

I caught you in a dumb statement, but you are too chickenshit to own up to it.

 

[edthecynic]

He claims the rights as transferred from the original owner for the property. he claims rights to the public land as his family has resided in the AREA since before 1900. His 1877 claim was a statement made to the media. His other claims are in the court documents.

You are intentionally confusing one for the other to make your point, typical of a progressive. whether it is from malice or stupidity is up for the board to decide.

You cant claim something unless you have proof to back it up. He doesnt have a claim at all. Its been public land since 1864. If he owned it or had rights where is his documentation?

He DID have an agreement with the BLM, he grazed on those lands just fine until BLM tried to lower the cattle limits to the point where his herd was un-viable. That he HAD a right to the land isn't in dispute. what is in dispute is how much the BLM can unilaterally change the terms of said agreement.

The BLM recognizes his right to be there, they just modified the # of cattle and the costs. and his point is they cannot do that unilaterally.

Actually according to St Ronnie, they can!

Executive Order 12548 -- Grazing Fees
February 14, 1986
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, and in order to provide for establishment of appropriate fees for the grazing of domestic livestock on public rangelands, it is ordered as follows:
Section 1. Determination of Fees. The Secretaries of Agriculture and the Interior are directed to exercise their authority, to the extent permitted by law under the various statutes they administer, to establish fees for domestic livestock grazing on the public rangelands which annually equals the $1.23 base established by the 1966 Western Livestock Grazing Survey multiplied by the result of the Forage Value Index (computed annually from data supplied by the Statistical Reporting Service) added to the Combined Index (Beef Cattle Price Index minus the Prices Paid Index) and divided by 100; provided, that the annual increase or decrease in such fee for any given year shall be limited to not more than plus or minus 25 percent of the previous year's fee, and provided further, that the fee shall not be less than $1.35 per animal unit month.
Sec. 2. Definitions. As used in this Order, the term:
(a) ``Public rangelands'' has the same meaning as in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978 (Public Law 95 - 514);
(b) ``Forage Value Index'' means the weighted average estimate of the annual rental charge per head per month for pasturing cattle on private rangelands in the 11 Western States (Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, and California) (computed by the Statistical Reporting Service from the June Enumerative Survey) divided by $3.65 and multiplied by 100;
(c) ``Beef Cattle Price Index'' means the weighted average annual selling price for beef cattle (excluding calves) in the 11 Western States (Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, and California) for November through October (computed by the Statistical Reporting Service) divided by $22.04 per hundred weight and multiplied by 100; and
(d) ``Prices Paid Index'' means the following selected components from the Statistical Reporting Service's Annual National Index of Prices Paid by Farmers for Goods and Services adjusted by the weights indicated in parentheses to reflect livestock production costs in the Western States: 1. Fuels and Energy (14.5); 2. Farm and Motor Supplies (12.0); 3. Autos and Trucks (4.5); 4. Tractors and Self-Propelled Machinery (4.5); 5. Other Machinery (12.0); 6. Building and Fencing Materials (14.5); 7. Interest (6.0); 8. Farm Wage Rates (14.0); 9. Farm Services (18.0).
Sec. 3. Any and all existing rules, practices, policies, and regulations relating to the administration of the formula for grazing fees in section 6(a) of the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978 shall continue in full force and effect.
Sec. 4. This Order shall be effective immediately.
Ronald Reagan
The White House,
February 14, 1986.

 

[Asclepias]

it's also not supposed to put him out of business. That was the intent of the regulations.

So is Bundy not a member of the public? This isn't park land to be reserved, this is public land to be USED by the public. Grazing is a legitimate use and always has been.

Why not? How do you know what the intent was? Bundy is a member of the public. He lost his rights to graze once he stopped paying his fees. What makes him special that he doesnt have to pay?

He stopped paying his fees because the BLM wanted to put him out of business. Kind of like when a renter stops paying a landlord when they don't provide the services expected.

I dont know what state you are in but you cant do that. You should check with your attorney to make sure. For example in CA of all places you are not entitled to A/C. You can expect it all you want to but if it goes down and it is not specified in the rental agreement you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[koshergrl]

Who is going to provide your beef when you put them out of business?

Shall we get beef from the middle east, like we get our oil?

 

[martybegan]

Why not? How do you know what the intent was? Bundy is a member of the public. He lost his rights to graze once he stopped paying his fees. What makes him special that he doesnt have to pay?

He stopped paying his fees because the BLM wanted to put him out of business. Kind of like when a renter stops paying a landlord when they don't provide the services expected.

I dont know what state you are in but you cant do that. You should check with your attorney to make sure. For example in CA of all places you are not entitled to A/C. You can expect it all you want to but if it goes down and it is not specified in the rental agreement you don't have a leg to stand on.

Who's talking about A/C? What about running water and heat?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bundys are a late comer to Utah's Dixie (includes SE and E Nevada, northern Arizona). They had no presence in St Joseph or Bunkerville or St Thomas or on the Muddy for a very long time. The monogamous Bundys reside in and near St. Geroge; the polygamous Bundys in and near Enterprise.

 

[RKMBrown]

Bundy a typical right wing inbred and thief

He hasn’t paid grazing fees since 1993, and refuses to renew the necessary grazing permit.

The Folly Of The Bundy Ranch Rebellion

Why should ranchers let the feds run them all out of business with ridiculous regulations and overly expensive punishing taxes that just targets them to the benefit for foreign ranchers? What's the point of letting our government put all small ranchers out of business in this state?

Why are you supporting this bull shit? If it was your family being put out of business would you care then? Or is it that your family is one of "those" welfare families that gets paid to not work?

 

[Asclepias]

So a business that depends on roads is thus "stupid and scary?" My house is stupid and scary because I rely on electricity water and gas from something "I don't own?"

He provides beef that is raised the way the treehuggers and animal lovers want it to be. On the open range, and not in feedlots.

Do you think before you post?

I think you are reaching for a moral victory here. It wont work. Yes depending on a road you dont own to operate your business is stupid and scary. What if it floods or is torn up. Now you are out of business. Your house is not your business. Its your personal property. Do you think before you post?

So a business is supposed to own all the roads in its supply and delivery chain?

I caught you in a dumb statement, but you are too chickenshit to own up to it.

You couldn't catch your left hand with your right one. Yes the ideal situation is to own everything. That way you don't have to worry about costs going up. Thats why some people succeed in business and others go out of business. They have business savy and understand that controlling that which is an indispensable part of their is priority #1.

 

[RKMBrown]

Today the Feds are taxing cows when they eat grass. What's next taxing cows for farting? Oh NVM that's what carbon taxes are for.

So what's next taxing us for "sunlight?" Really what are the feds doing to improve the crappy grass growth in this desert?

 

[edthecynic]

it's also not supposed to put him out of business. That was the intent of the regulations.

So is Bundy not a member of the public? This isn't park land to be reserved, this is public land to be USED by the public. Grazing is a legitimate use and always has been.

Why not? How do you know what the intent was? Bundy is a member of the public. He lost his rights to graze once he stopped paying his fees. What makes him special that he doesnt have to pay?

He stopped paying his fees because the BLM wanted to put him out of business. Kind of like when a renter stops paying a landlord when they don't provide the services expected.

And if the tenant doesn't pay they get evicted. The only way to avoid eviction is to pay the money into a non-interest escrow account. Bundy didn't.

 

[Asclepias]

He stopped paying his fees because the BLM wanted to put him out of business. Kind of like when a renter stops paying a landlord when they don't provide the services expected.

I dont know what state you are in but you cant do that. You should check with your attorney to make sure. For example in CA of all places you are not entitled to A/C. You can expect it all you want to but if it goes down and it is not specified in the rental agreement you don't have a leg to stand on.

Who's talking about A/C? What about running water and heat?

I was talking about A/C. Keep up.

 

[jillian]

Why should ranchers let the feds run them all out of business with ridiculous regulations and overly expensive punishing taxes that just targets them to the benefit for foreign ranchers? What's the point of letting our government put all small ranchers out of business in this state?

Why are you supporting this bull shit? If it was your family being put out of business would you care then? Or is it that your family is one of "those" welfare families that gets paid to not work?

it is FEDERAL land. not theirs. and the law is that they have to pay grazing fees.

if they were a bunch of "inner city youths" who used $20 in foodstamps illegally, you'd be saying they should be jailed.

they are BREAKING THE LAW.

and last I checked, stealing over a million dollars in services was pretty serious.

government running them out of business.... lmao....

 

[Asclepias]

Who is going to provide your beef when you put them out of business?

Shall we get beef from the middle east, like we get our oil?

I wouldn't miss it much. Turkey, Chicken, Fish are all viable alternatives.

 

[Katzndogz]

they must destroy this man
they must destroy this man
they must they must
anyone know why this is?
I don't get it

they've went after some guy on a reality show for something he said
and now this rancher who the government just went out and CRUSHED yet this thing is more important?

sick

They must get back the tax payers money or send the bum to jail. You guys were duped by Fox News.....again.

The tax payers never gave Bundy any money.

Neither did Bundy steal any services. The federal government does not offer the growth of desert scrub as a service.

Maybe the feds can start a Sunshine tax, and start taxing people for the days of sunshine. Or perhaps the feds could offer rain as one of the government services they "give".

 

[jillian]

Cattle ranchers are for the public, they supply our beef.
BLM has been putting them out of business.

they are not there for the "public". they are there for themselves.

you'd be yelling socialism if I said the government should let individuals have million dollar handouts....or even a subsidized place to live.

 

[rdean]

No it's not, idiot. Perhaps his grandparents were living there, and that's why his parents moved there. Perhaps his great grandparents did. Maybe they owned land there..

The point is, just because his parents lived outside of Arizona doesn't make the claim bogus.

Morons. You should really look up definitions once in a while. It's like you're proud of being idiots.

Look at you.

Maybe this.

Maybe that.

Could be this.

Could be that.

You guys are idiots for not trying to figure out a way.....blah blah blah.

One thing we do know, the land he owns now wasn't in the family since 1877.

 

[Asclepias]

Today the Feds are taxing cows when they eat grass. What's next taxing cows for farting? Oh NVM that's what carbon taxes are for.

So what's next taxing us for "sunlight?" Really what are the feds doing to improve the crappy grass growth in this desert?

Thats not the point. The point is the Bundy dude is a liar and got busted. He also is a free loader that duped a lot of people into fighting for him. Now that the truth is coming out after the emotions have settled down some people now have egg on their faces.

 

[RKMBrown]

Why should ranchers let the feds run them all out of business with ridiculous regulations and overly expensive punishing taxes that just targets them to the benefit for foreign ranchers? What's the point of letting our government put all small ranchers out of business in this state?

Why are you supporting this bull shit? If it was your family being put out of business would you care then? Or is it that your family is one of "those" welfare families that gets paid to not work?

it is FEDERAL land. not theirs. and the law is that they have to pay grazing fees.

if they were a bunch of "inner city youths" who used $20 in foodstamps illegally, you'd be saying they should be jailed.

they are BREAKING THE LAW.

and last I checked, stealing over a million dollars in services was pretty serious.

government running them out of business.... lmao....

What effin good is a law for "grazing" fees when the result of the law is ZERO EFFIN GRAZING FEES PAID? When the law runs everyone out of business the law has committed a capital crime on it's citizens.

 

[Asclepias]

they must destroy this man
they must destroy this man
they must they must
anyone know why this is?
I don't get it

they've went after some guy on a reality show for something he said
and now this rancher who the government just went out and CRUSHED yet this thing is more important?

sick

They must get back the tax payers money or send the bum to jail. You guys were duped by Fox News.....again.

The tax payers never gave Bundy any money.

Yes they did in the form of free grazing.