Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[dblack]

Is Beyonce worth what society pays her? How about Aaron Rodgers? What does it say about a society when its most valuable members are athletes and entertainers?

But to your point, who should decide how much any person can make? How would you limit Bill Gates income?

It seems both left and right are fixated on the idea that someone's monetary wealth or income indicates what they are "worth". But it's really only a measure of their success in economic matters. The CEO of a company isn't "worth" hundreds of times more than an unskilled employee, but the work they do might be. Especially if it facilitates the productive efforts of thousands.

 

[Stephanie]

Is Beyonce worth what society pays her? How about Aaron Rodgers? What does it say about a society when its most valuable members are athletes and entertainers?

But to your point, who should decide how much any person can make? How would you limit Bill Gates income?

It seems both left and right are fixated on the idea that someone's monetary wealth or income indicates what they are "worth". But it's really only a measure of their success in economic matters. The CEO of a company isn't "worth" hundreds of times more than an unskilled employee, but the work they do might be. Especially if it facilitates the productive efforts of thousands.

oh well, nobody forces anyone to WORK for them. You don't like what they pay go find another job

 

[Iceweasel]

Define fair

Any number that pisses you off. Is today's minimum wage number "fair"? Define your version of "fair" skull.
Is a CEO getting 10 million a year "fair" skull?

If I can get paid more money using legal means, what's not "fair" about that skull? Happens all the time.

If the CEO makes the company enough money he might be worth well over 10 million a year. This is an economic question, not a legal one. Employees have the legal right to the money they earned.

The left's argument on this is stupid, they want the government to increase starting pay wages to a living wage when no two people have the same living conditions. My living wage back in the day was what the military paid me and I had to have roomates in order to afford an apartment. Was that fair?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Is Beyonce worth what society pays her? How about Aaron Rodgers? What does it say about a society when its most valuable members are athletes and entertainers?

But to your point, who should decide how much any person can make? How would you limit Bill Gates income?

It seems both left and right are fixated on the idea that someone's monetary wealth or income indicates what they are "worth". But it's really only a measure of their success in economic matters. The CEO of a company isn't "worth" hundreds of times more than an unskilled employee, but the work they do might be. Especially if it facilitates the productive efforts of thousands.

MW has nothing to do with the worth of a person and everything to do with the worth of the job that is performed.

Picking up dog shit isn't worth much just like stuffing stuff into a bag isn't worth much.

 

[Redfish]

Is Beyonce worth what society pays her? How about Aaron Rodgers? What does it say about a society when its most valuable members are athletes and entertainers?

But to your point, who should decide how much any person can make? How would you limit Bill Gates income?

It seems both left and right are fixated on the idea that someone's monetary wealth or income indicates what they are "worth". But it's really only a measure of their success in economic matters. The CEO of a company isn't "worth" hundreds of times more than an unskilled employee, but the work they do might be. Especially if it facilitates the productive efforts of thousands.

Not at all, I was responding to the fool who was bitching about CEO pay. I reminded him/her that our society pays entertainers and athletes much more than most CEOs, and no one on the left ever bitches about that.

 

[Jarhead]

Is Beyonce worth what society pays her? How about Aaron Rodgers? What does it say about a society when its most valuable members are athletes and entertainers?

But to your point, who should decide how much any person can make? How would you limit Bill Gates income?

It seems both left and right are fixated on the idea that someone's monetary wealth or income indicates what they are "worth". But it's really only a measure of their success in economic matters. The CEO of a company isn't "worth" hundreds of times more than an unskilled employee, but the work they do might be. Especially if it facilitates the productive efforts of thousands.

MW has nothing to do with the worth of a person and everything to do with the worth of the job that is performed.

Picking up dog shit isn't worth much just like stuffing stuff into a bag isn't worth much.

if a 16 typical year old can do the job at hand, there is no reason for either of the following

1) Hiring anything but a 16 year old
2) an adult requiring a "living wage" taking the job

If we were to give all jobs that a 16 year old can do for 8 bucks an hour to adults at 15 an hour....

What jobs do we give 16 year olds?

 

[Redfish]

Is Beyonce worth what society pays her? How about Aaron Rodgers? What does it say about a society when its most valuable members are athletes and entertainers?

But to your point, who should decide how much any person can make? How would you limit Bill Gates income?

It seems both left and right are fixated on the idea that someone's monetary wealth or income indicates what they are "worth". But it's really only a measure of their success in economic matters. The CEO of a company isn't "worth" hundreds of times more than an unskilled employee, but the work they do might be. Especially if it facilitates the productive efforts of thousands.

MW has nothing to do with the worth of a person and everything to do with the worth of the job that is performed.

Picking up dog shit isn't worth much just like stuffing stuff into a bag isn't worth much.

if a 16 typical year old can do the job at hand, there is no reason for either of the following

1) Hiring anything but a 16 year old
2) an adult requiring a "living wage" taking the job

If we were to give all jobs that a 16 year old can do for 8 bucks an hour to adults at 15 an hour....

What jobs do we give 16 year olds?

drug dealer, street thug, meth user, gangbanger????

 

[SwimExpert]

The left's argument on this is stupid, they want the government to increase starting pay wages to a living wage when no two people have the same living conditions.

This is why minimum wage laws are best done locally.

 

[Ame®icano]

Define fair

Any number that pisses you off. Is today's minimum wage number "fair"? Define your version of "fair" skull.
Is a CEO getting 10 million a year "fair" skull?

If I can get paid more money using legal means, what's not "fair" about that skull? Happens all the time.

If you have no skills, and you're good for freaking nothing, you should be paid adequately.

Therefore, minimum fair is zero.

 

[paulitician]

Most Republicans i know, have no problem with businesses lobbying Government for handouts. So they like Big Government interference just fine. But only if it benefits them. When it comes to Workers wanting a piece of the pie, they're all about "Government should stay out of it!!"

Seriously, i really am ashamed of my Republican friends on issues like this. Their greed and hypocrisy is pretty embarrassing.

A. You don't know any Republicans.
B. You have no friends.

Oh i know plenty. That's why i know how many of you think. Y'all just love Big Government intervention in business if you think it will benefit you. But God forbid the struggling worker catches a break every now & then.

Anyway, the thread is B.S. Businesses are not closing all over Seattle due to higher wages. That's just greedy wanker 'Sky is Falling' Bullshite. They'll deal with it and pay their workers a little more. Life will go on.

 

[Ame®icano]

I'm still waiting to read what is livable wage.

 

[Ame®icano]

Most Republicans i know, have no problem with businesses lobbying Government for handouts. So they like Big Government interference just fine. But only if it benefits them. When it comes to Workers wanting a piece of the pie, they're all about "Government should stay out of it!!"

Seriously, i really am ashamed of my Republican friends on issues like this. Their greed and hypocrisy is pretty embarrassing.

A. You don't know any Republicans.
B. You have no friends.

Oh i know plenty. That's why i know how many of you think. Y'all just love Big Government intervention in business if you think it will benefit you. But God forbid the struggling worker catches a break every now & then.

Anyway, the thread is B.S. Businesses are not closing all over Seattle due to higher wages. That's just greedy wanker 'Sky is Falling' Bullshite. They'll deal with it and pay their workers a little more. Life will go on.

Law is not effect yet. We shall wait and see.

 

[Lakhota]

Wow, over 8,000 posts - based on a lie.

 

[paulitician]

I don't think they're doing it to good customers. Now if you're an asshole to them, then you should worry.

Trust me, you really do want happy & prosperous workers waiting on you in restaurants especially. But happy & prosperous workers make for better workers overall. They're proud of their work and happy to serve.

You never told us how much is a fair wage. Lets say that everyone is doing exactly the same job, how much should they be paid? Is it the same in NYC as in Fargo ND? Is it the same for a single guy living with his parents as for a married guy with 4 kids? Is it the same for a teenager working for pocket money as for a single mom?

And finally, who decides what is a fair wage? Who is this omnipitant wage setter?

How about no less than 60x less than the CEO takes home. Or whatever is a living wage. Its all just funny money anyways.

why? why not 70x or 30x or 90x. whats magic about 60x? Who should invoke those limits, the govt? the shareholders? Should the CEO stop working and go on vacation when he/she kits the magic 60x?

this is foolishness, but you jealousy of successful people is noted.

No ones worth 600x the lowest paid workers. My bro makes over $500k a year. That's ridiculous. But good for him. And good for the union guys getting their fair share.

Spot On. Everyone's tryin to get theirs. It's all about the $$. It's the American Way.

 

[Iceweasel]

Oh i know plenty. That's why i know how many of you think. Y'all just love Big Government intervention in business if you think it will benefit you. But God forbid the struggling worker catches a break every now & then.

Anyway, the thread is B.S. Businesses are not closing all over Seattle due to higher wages. That's just greedy wanker 'Sky is Falling' Bullshite. They'll deal with it and pay their workers a little more. Life will go on.

Give me an example of big government in business that I love. You're talking out of your ass.

The Rumpus Over Seattle s 15 Minimum Wage And Restaurant Closures - Forbes
Think through a numerical example for a moment. A simplified one (but these numbers are not far off the basic economics of the restaurant trade). One third of revenues go on rent, one third on paying the workers and one third on paying for the food and booze that is prepared and served. Excellent: so, we raise wages by $100 (we can consider one sole restaurant where all those wages get spent at that restaurant, or all places in the city together, makes no difference here) and all of that money is then spent back into the same system. If the only cost was wages then it would be a wash. But wages aren’t the only cost. Let’s assume that rent doesn’t change but there’s still those food costs. Out of that $100 in extra spending $35 has to go off to buy the food. So, the restaurant (or restaurants in aggregate) now has an extra $65 in gross margin but they’ve got an extra wage bill of $100. This is not known as being a profitable thing to do. In fact, this would be generally known as “making a loss” on the deal.

A couple of people asked why we’re worrying about the effects on the restaurant industry? It’s not exactly all that important is it? The reason we do so is because the restaurant industry employs something like half of all the people who do get the minimum wage. We don’t go looking for minimum wage effects among Silicon Valley engineers because the minimum wage simply isn’t a binding constraint upon them: it has no relevance whatever for their job prospects or pay. It does have some relevance for the industry which is the major employer of minimum wage labour: that’s why we go and look there.

Several made the point that the wage rise hasn’t happened yet so how could it be affecting anything now? The answer being that business people (at least those who stay in business tend to) have things called “budgets”, even “business plans”. These are attempts to peer into the future and work out the implications of changes we know are coming. Thus if such a budget shows that labour will cost more in the future at least experimentation on labour light production methods will start now. Precisely because people do attempt to divine the future then future price changes alter behaviour now.

And finally, let me once again draw attention to what the prediction is:

Please do note though what is the prediction. Not that there’s going to be a wiping out of employment opportunities, nor that the economy of Seattle is going to become a howling wasteland. Rather, that less human labor will be employed at $15 an hour than would have been employed if the minimum wage had not risen to that amount.

Please note, even Jared Bernstein agrees with this point. It is not controversial in the slightest.

 

[paulitician]

How's that a good thing for Workers? Not seeing where they're coming out ahead on that. Low skilled Workers wanna get paid too. See, Workers know not to depend on greedy folks like you to help them out. That's why they're standing up for themselves. And good for them. If they don't stand up for themselves, who will?... You?? Ha, not gonna happen.

The entry level/low skilled worker "gets ahead" by increasing their skill set, learning a trade or furthering their education.
The Seattle low skill worker is not standing up for anything. They lean on the crutch of government to "get" them something.
The concept of the prevailing market rate wage is not intended to be a good or bad thing. It is an island. It operates exclusively of opinion. It is what it is. And no government mandate can change that fact.
There may eventually be some workers that will be paid the unrealistic minimum wage in Seattle, but one thing is clear, there will be a lot fewer of them....Full time employment for this skill level will all but disappear. This will also reduce teen employment. Kids that want to work for a little spending money or to save up, will be excluded from the job market because no business is going to pay a high school kid fifteen or even ten dollars per hour.

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

You need those people stuffing crap into bags. Most Americans are way too fat and lazy to do it themselves. It's Supply & Demand. Low skilled workers wanna get paid too. Nothing wrong with that.

They do get paid they just get paid in accordance with the job

If they want more money then they should make themselves more valuable to their employer

The reason they get paid MW is because any moron off the street can do what they do

They have made themselves more valuable. And now they'll be seeing higher wages. Because like it or not, you need those people stuffing crap into bags. Americans have become so damn fat & lazy. Most are not gonna do it themselves. Bag Stuffers have actually made themselves a pretty valuable commodity. Good for them.

 

[paulitician]

The entry level/low skilled worker "gets ahead" by increasing their skill set, learning a trade or furthering their education.
The Seattle low skill worker is not standing up for anything. They lean on the crutch of government to "get" them something.
The concept of the prevailing market rate wage is not intended to be a good or bad thing. It is an island. It operates exclusively of opinion. It is what it is. And no government mandate can change that fact.
There may eventually be some workers that will be paid the unrealistic minimum wage in Seattle, but one thing is clear, there will be a lot fewer of them....Full time employment for this skill level will all but disappear. This will also reduce teen employment. Kids that want to work for a little spending money or to save up, will be excluded from the job market because no business is going to pay a high school kid fifteen or even ten dollars per hour.

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

What do you take home $20k a year making $15 hr?

What difference does that make?

If you can't pay your bills on what you make then you have to do something about it.
It's not an employers job to make sure you pay your own bills all your employer does is offer a job and a place to do it. You accept the wages when you agree to work there.

If the wages aren't enough for you to live on it is your responsibility to earn more by working another job, or improving your skill set so as to warrant a higher salary.

I for one don't want to hire anyone with no ambition other than stuffing crap into bags his whole life

Then dont own a grocery store

And don't shop in em. That'll show those evil bag stuffers.

 

[paulitician]

Oh i know plenty. That's why i know how many of you think. Y'all just love Big Government intervention in business if you think it will benefit you. But God forbid the struggling worker catches a break every now & then.

Anyway, the thread is B.S. Businesses are not closing all over Seattle due to higher wages. That's just greedy wanker 'Sky is Falling' Bullshite. They'll deal with it and pay their workers a little more. Life will go on.

Give me an example of big government in business that I love. You're talking out of your ass.

The Rumpus Over Seattle s 15 Minimum Wage And Restaurant Closures - Forbes
Think through a numerical example for a moment. A simplified one (but these numbers are not far off the basic economics of the restaurant trade). One third of revenues go on rent, one third on paying the workers and one third on paying for the food and booze that is prepared and served. Excellent: so, we raise wages by $100 (we can consider one sole restaurant where all those wages get spent at that restaurant, or all places in the city together, makes no difference here) and all of that money is then spent back into the same system. If the only cost was wages then it would be a wash. But wages aren’t the only cost. Let’s assume that rent doesn’t change but there’s still those food costs. Out of that $100 in extra spending $35 has to go off to buy the food. So, the restaurant (or restaurants in aggregate) now has an extra $65 in gross margin but they’ve got an extra wage bill of $100. This is not known as being a profitable thing to do. In fact, this would be generally known as “making a loss” on the deal.

A couple of people asked why we’re worrying about the effects on the restaurant industry? It’s not exactly all that important is it? The reason we do so is because the restaurant industry employs something like half of all the people who do get the minimum wage. We don’t go looking for minimum wage effects among Silicon Valley engineers because the minimum wage simply isn’t a binding constraint upon them: it has no relevance whatever for their job prospects or pay. It does have some relevance for the industry which is the major employer of minimum wage labour: that’s why we go and look there.

Several made the point that the wage rise hasn’t happened yet so how could it be affecting anything now? The answer being that business people (at least those who stay in business tend to) have things called “budgets”, even “business plans”. These are attempts to peer into the future and work out the implications of changes we know are coming. Thus if such a budget shows that labour will cost more in the future at least experimentation on labour light production methods will start now. Precisely because people do attempt to divine the future then future price changes alter behaviour now.

And finally, let me once again draw attention to what the prediction is:

Please do note though what is the prediction. Not that there’s going to be a wiping out of employment opportunities, nor that the economy of Seattle is going to become a howling wasteland. Rather, that less human labor will be employed at $15 an hour than would have been employed if the minimum wage had not risen to that amount.

Please note, even Jared Bernstein agrees with this point. It is not controversial in the slightest.

Oh stop. Businesses lobby Government for breaks and $$ everyday. Both large and small businesses. Most of my Republican friends don't have a problem with businesses going to Government for handouts. They only have a problem when Government intervenes on behalf of struggling workers. It's the ultimate greed & hypocrisy.

 

[paulitician]

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

You need those people stuffing crap into bags. Most Americans are way too fat and lazy to do it themselves. It's Supply & Demand. Low skilled workers wanna get paid too. Nothing wrong with that.

They do get paid they just get paid in accordance with the job

If they want more money then they should make themselves more valuable to their employer

The reason they get paid MW is because any moron off the street can do what they do

What do you do? I'm OK with people making minimum as long as its a fair wage. Can't trust owners so the gov decides that number.

Define fair

I've asked you guys for a long time to put a number on what you think is a decent livable wage for average American Workers in today's America. You guys always duck & run. What do you think an average American can survive on today? Take a shot, throw a number out there.

 

[paulitician]

Trust me, you really do want happy & prosperous workers waiting on you in restaurants especially. But happy & prosperous workers make for better workers overall. They're proud of their work and happy to serve.

You never told us how much is a fair wage. Lets say that everyone is doing exactly the same job, how much should they be paid? Is it the same in NYC as in Fargo ND? Is it the same for a single guy living with his parents as for a married guy with 4 kids? Is it the same for a teenager working for pocket money as for a single mom?

And finally, who decides what is a fair wage? Who is this omnipitant wage setter?

How about no less than 60x less than the CEO takes home. Or whatever is a living wage. Its all just funny money anyways.

why? why not 70x or 30x or 90x. whats magic about 60x? Who should invoke those limits, the govt? the shareholders? Should the CEO stop working and go on vacation when he/she kits the magic 60x?

this is foolishness, but you jealousy of successful people is noted.

No ones worth 600x the lowest paid workers. My bro makes over $500k a year. That's ridiculous. But good for him. And good for the union guys getting their fair share.

Is Beyonce worth what society pays her? How about Aaron Rodgers? What does it say about a society when its most valuable members are athletes and entertainers?

But to your point, who should decide how much any person can make? How would you limit Bill Gates income?

Bill Gates desperately needs more foreign workers. Seriously, true story. Great guy, huh?