Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[thereisnospoon]

There is no desire to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on a college degree if the person stuffing french friends into a cardboard container is making what they had hoped to make after going to college. Just go flip burgers and make a killing. A living wage, according to liberals, is being able to buy ANYTHING you want. Cell phones, internet, TV, you ******* name it, that's a living wage. If you can use it while you're living, your burger flipping job should pay for it.

A little eye opener liberals: they won't have a job at all if the fast food they stuff into bags costs more than people are willing to pay.

A "living wage" is one that allows a worker to be self-supporting, without the need for assistance, especially government assistance programs. Of course, it's different depending on where one lives. It cost more to live in New York City than it does to live in Jackson Mississippi.

That's correct. Then add in all the toys that certain people believe to be entitlements.
Luxury items such as high speed internet, pay tv, cell phones, the ability to eat out, a second car....Yeah.
According to a study out of MIT, the living wage for a family of 5 living in Los Angeles County is over $23 per hour...So if a guy who has few marketable skills gets a job in a fast food rest, the living wage activists will look to that number as wage that is "fair".....Somehow I don;'t see a fast food worker making that kind of money.
The point is, those who work these entry level jobs must be made to realize the emphasis is on entry level.

A "living wage" is NOT based on family size. A "living wage" is based what it takes for a "single" person to be self-supporting. It has nothing to do with family or family size.

Define "self supporting"....because if you're going to insist that a fast food worker has every right to live in an apartment that carries a monthly rent of $2k or $3k per month, you're nuts.
Because in places such as San Francisco, New York, Boston, Seattle, San Diego, Washington( Northwest/Georgetown) and many other places where housing costs are out of reach for everyone but the highest earners.

The term "self-supporting" speaks for itself. It means one can support themselves without the need for assistance. I wasn't talking about fast food workers, or any particular work place. I was talking about "a worker", a person that works. And, I certainly wasn't talking about the cost of apartments or rental property. Calling me nuts doesn't add anything to this conversation. Please make an effort to be adult and civil. Name calling and personal attack is what kids do on the playground. Yes, cost are different in many areas of the country, and I have already mentioned that if you'll go back and read my comments. Your age?

Then state your case.

 

[thereisnospoon]

It's not the $15 dollars an hour for larger employers goes into effect immediately. Employers have seven years to the $15 per hour is realized.

After the Seattle Magazine article in full, one can see Townhall (the OP's main source and a seriously right wing leading blog) greatly exxagerated the entire situation, naturally.
From the Seattle Magazine article:


Now personally, I think $15 an hour is too big of a jump. But rest assured. the far right thinks raising the minimum wage a nickel is way too much.

Employers with over 500 employees. Which is what I said yesterday more than likely would be the case. Companies like Starbucks probably paid off the right politicians.

The far right doesn't want any government mandated wages, period. Let the market decide.

Letting "the market decide" has lead to over three decades of flat wage growth and the demise of the working middle class.

Oh please....And the alternative is? Central planning in wages? If the government is left to set minimums, it will also have set maximums.
See where this is going?
Each time the federal government has tried a form of wage and/or price controls, economic disaster ensued.
We have a market based economy because it does the best for the most. Period.
The government cannot fix prices or wages and expect no backlash. Not unless the Constitution is suspended and the US becomes a totalitarian regime.

 

[Flash]

Question: Who would have never thunk that government interference in the free market of labor would have bad consequences?

Answer: Stupid Moon Bats

 

[SwimExpert]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage you shouldn't be in business.

The wage is reflection of what labor is worth to business.

They don't get to decide that. They have proven themselves unworthy of doing so by paying such low wages.

So who gets to decide what wage to pay you?

The government gets to decide the least you can pay someone. The government of the People. You've heard of the People, haven't you?

Don't dive when you can't see the depth of the pool. The discussion has nothing to do with setting the minimum wage. The question pertains to why who has the right to determine the adequacy of a wage that already meets the legal requirements.

 

[SwimExpert]

Your post shows all intelligent people that you're too stupid and lazy to find facts for yourself.

He's not lazy. He spends hours every day weaving, fabricating, and outraging at his creations. Stupid, he most certainly is. Lazy, he is not.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hey guess what mr what the ****....It was a sports bar....and a very successful one at that.....So much so that a larger restaurant company made a very lucrative off on the place and the owner of course sold..Why not? That's what a business is...An investment.
And hey shit for brains....There are other costs associated with running a restaurant than just the cost of the item and the final sale price.
Labor, utilities....Oh why am I bothering to explain....You have your mind made up and you having never been in the food and beverage business are 100% correct...
And it is telling that you are just spewing a bunch of horse shit because you had to resort to calling me names and criticizing me...
Well.
Now, go finish stabbing yourself in the eye with a lawn dart.
You're too ******* stupid to have a job.

So let's recap....

You admit that you're not talking about a restaurant, you're talking about a sports bar. That makes everything you said moot anyway.

You say it was "very successful" but the owner sold it. Why sell it?

How long did the guy own it? Sports bars are one of the most difficult types of bars to operate. They take huge, astronomical investments (more expensive than any other type of concept) and more often than not people find themselves in trouble before long because they can't figure out how to get the place off the ground. They tend to sell because they need to get out. Often the sale is to another person who doesn't know they don't know what they're doing, or to someone who does know how to turn it into a cash cow and is willing to offer a good price to a struggling owner because they know they can do much better than the last shmuck. It's one of the reasons successful sports bars nowadays are usually chain concepts, and why chain sports bars are growing so rapidly. They have the deep pockets to front the initial capital, and they have the experience to make the business successful, which most proprietors lack.

Sports bars generally rely on high volume. A successful sports bar will net millions a year. That's quite a bit more than the $2.13/hr wage of any of their servers!

Alright, you've had your spanking. Now go to bed!

He sold it because the offer was right. The place wasn't for sale. But somebody else wanted it and was willing to pay top dollar...DUH....
Hey empty vessel. I made it abundantly clear earlier in the thread that the place was a sports bar. You were too busy wiping the tears from your eyes after yoour knee jerked upward and struck your chin.
Yes. Sports bars are a tough market. This one was a good one. Hence the reason why it sold for a rather tidy profit.
Why are you trying so hard to appear as though you know something about the F&B business.....never mind. I don't give a shit.
Shut your stink hole. You master of vapidity.

Someone's butthurt after getting spanked.

Doing this.......does not mean you win the argument. it means you have lost touch with reality.

Thanks for admitting you're out of touch with reality.

Wow...You are deep in self denial....

 

[danielpalos]

It’s evident that those Demoncrats don’t have a clue about economics. They never think of the consequences of their “feel good policies.” Neither do they have a clue how a business is run and operated. Seems to me this should be a litmus test for elected officials



Seattle eateries closing as 15 minimum wage approaches Hot Air

I would agree with you, but for the right's inability to make more money, with either an official Mint or massive federal budget surpluses.

 

[Flopper]

Nah, it won't. Folks will eat out regardless.

Sure but since it will cost more they will eat out less thereby making many employees unnecessary

You don't Seattle. People eat out regardless of price. They may not pay their bills on time but they will eat out.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

1. They are rich because their granddaddy made it rich they did not
2. No they would not have to raise prices that's more of the right wing bullshit that's been debunked.

A Left wing white supremacist. LMAO!

OMG that never gets old!

Racial Socialist as I have said a dozen times.You act like its some surprise.

Right. Like I'm going to tell one bedsheet from another. Same shit, different blender speed.

Not even close. Klan is a christian group and hates socialism...

The only things that set you all apart are who you hate, like that matters. It's all hate and bigotry. You thinking there's a difference is like goth kids thinking they are nothing like the vampire kids. You're all pretty much the same to the rest of us.

You hit that nail on the head .....................

While asking others what there violence is seated in he spews his filth of destruction and hate for Whole Stereotypical groups such as Republicans and business owners

He looks like a constant moron for a white supremacist ..............

I asked him the other day if he was a N*GGER, he just spewed more of his nonsensical vile.

If he ain't a n*gger, he sure aint got no reason to feel superior to anyone.

He has been a shit-storm-of-hypocrisies who has no clue how ignorant the rest of the world views him.

Quick on the way to the ignoree list with the n*ggers and faggots who don't want to discuss things civilly!!

 

[Clementine]

The Klan was created by Conservatives.

Um, no. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

Founded in 1866, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) extended into almost every southern state by 1870 and became a vehicle for white southern resistance to the Republican Party’s Reconstruction-era policies aimed at establishing political and economic equality for blacks.

The Klan was started by southern democrats who hated republicans that were trying to restructure their lives by freeing blacks. Remember, it was republicans who freed slaves, not democrats.

Ku Klux Klan - Facts Summary - HISTORY.com

I know that goes against the liberal mantra of "republicans hate black people" but its the truth. As algore puts it, the inconvenient truth. White democrats started the Klan. If it wouldn't be for white republicans, we'd still have slaves. White democrats loved them the death.

The left wants to erase their past because it would expose their real motives. I suspect that is why they want to dumb down our students. Those learning about history will know that the left has ulterior motives for "helping" people.

Many think that pushing government dependence means they care. Others, who have been properly indoctrinated, believe the crap taught by liberal professors that places all blame on the right and they even change history because they can't own up to it.

All the left's heroes were against freeing blacks and wanted to keep denying their rights. The left also loved Margaret Sanger, founded of Planned Parenthood, whose mission was to control the growth of the black population. I think "mongrels" was just one of the nasty words she used.

Increasing minimum wage is just another trick they pull out of their bag every few years. While pretending to help a lot of people, they know most will get screwed and only a few will see improvement. Many businesses offer raises after employees are with them long enough, but government wants to force businesses to either pay up or reduce their workforce. It's a direct hit on middle class businesses because they are the ones that are likely to fold.

Minorities and the poor have always been used by the left to push their solutions that they claim are for the 'greater good', but the reality is that they are fooling many into believing they are benevolent when all they really want is to dismantle this country and create a more oppressive one in it's place.

 

[thereisnospoon]

"No, cronyism, government regulations and the high cost of doing business in the US has done that"-Iceweasel
That is the version from the right.
If that is the case, why has the US National Income continued to grow at a brisk rate but only for the upper income brackett? If "cronyism, government regulations and the high cost of doing business in the US has done that", the upper bracket wouldn't be realizing a record wealth growth rate.
Holding down wages is a great way to enjoy greater profits, which rewards the few.

The fact is wages are not being held down.
Not for skilled workers.
The lower income classification is suffering from the influx of illegal immigrants. It is also seeing the effects of fewer available jobs.
Jobs that go unfilled also skew the income levels downward.
Another issue. Many positions which require engineering and IT degrees are going unfilled because companies struggle to find qualified candidates.
In any event to place a blanket statement such as "wages are down" does not tell the whole story.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Nah, it won't. Folks will eat out regardless.

Sure but since it will cost more they will eat out less thereby making many employees unnecessary

that is easily solved by mandating that the peoples need to eat out a certain number of times per year

or face serious consequences from the government for failing to do so

I know you're joking but why do I think that some people will think it's a good idea?

I had no clue the OP was waxing sarcastic....Oh well.
Should have offered up a disclaimer.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage you shouldn't be in business.

The wage is reflection of what labor is worth to business.

They don't get to decide that. They have proven themselves unworthy of doing so by paying such low wages.

"They" don't decide.. The marketplace decides.
Like it or not, labor is a commodity. Subject to the laws of supply and demand.
The cost of doing business is inexorably tied to the cost of labor as labor is the highest percentage cost of operating a business.
The key workers are paid according to their level of skill, experience and their ability to complete their tasks in such a way as to generate more revenue than the cost of their labor.
Lower skilled and unskilled workers are a cost. They do not generate revenue.

 

[Preacher]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage you shouldn't be in business.

The wage is reflection of what labor is worth to business.

They don't get to decide that. They have proven themselves unworthy of doing so by paying such low wages.

"They" don't decide.. The marketplace decides.
Like it or not, labor is a commodity. Subject to the laws of supply and demand.
The cost of doing business is inexorably tied to the cost of labor as labor is the highest percentage cost of operating a business.
The key workers are paid according to their level of skill, experience and their ability to complete their tasks in such a way as to generate more revenue than the cost of their labor.
Lower skilled and unskilled workers are a cost. They do not generate revenue.

They sell the product that puts the big bucks in the rich assholes pockets...they are worth more and since rich assholes can't see that it takes government FORCING them to see that.

 

[Flopper]

Every time the minimum wage has been raised in the past, the economy has gone into a tailspin.

You'd think they would learn by now.

There has been no correlation between minimum wage increases and recession over the last 20 years. The only minimum wage increase in last 20 years that immediately precedence a recession was the 2006 increase. The preceding minimum wage increases in 1997, 1995, 1991, and 1989 did not immediately precede a recession.

Minimum wage since 1938 - CNNMoney
List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[SwimExpert]

People need to understand that just because you leave something to market forces, doesn't mean it will produce a good outcome.

Market forces are amoral at best, immoral at worst.

You are correct that market forces do not necessarily produce a good outcome. But they do produce a natural outcome. I that market forces are inherently amoral. But I reject that they are immoral. Arbitrary government intrusion is immoral, but never amoral. When government policy is deemed desirable or necessary it must never strive to be moral, because government power can never achieve positive morality. By its nature it will tend towards immorality if for no other reason than it posits own moral values as more meaningful than those of any individual. Therefore, government interjection into the markets must strive to operate within market forces, and achieve the same amorality as the normal market itself.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The servers will be even more motivated to bury their tips if the employer is on the hook to make up the difference.

Do you think you're the first person to ever think of that? Do you think the employer wants to pay their servers several dollars an hour more when they don't have to? Any restaurant being run by someone who halfway knows what they're doing will be able to prevent it. I've already told you this.

Many people tip in cash, so there's no way to really police it. You are making assumptions on what they will make AND what they will report.

You really don't know what you're talking about. Servers have to declare tips at the end of every shift they work. Yes, some tips are in cash. But if a server under reports their tips such that the employer has to pay extra on the server's paycheck, management is going to quickly step in. I can't police whether you report every last penny. But if you're reporting tips that come out to be 5% of your total sales, I'm not going to tolerate it. You're breaking the law, you're defrauding me to get more money, or you're providing shitty service. Either way, I don't want you working for me.

I think YOU need to read, I asked you to back it up.

Sure thing sport. I've been doing this longer than you've been playing on the internets. You're simply talking out of your ass, and making no damn sense along the way.

Once again ,yours is the opinion of an uninformed individual.
I'm not going to waste my time explaining my experience as a worker and manager in the F&B industry.
I defer to your expertise.

 

[Flopper]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage you shouldn't be in business.

The wage is reflection of what labor is worth to business.

They don't get to decide that. They have proven themselves unworthy of doing so by paying such low wages.

"They" don't decide.. The marketplace decides.
Like it or not, labor is a commodity. Subject to the laws of supply and demand.
The cost of doing business is inexorably tied to the cost of labor as labor is the highest percentage cost of operating a business.
The key workers are paid according to their level of skill, experience and their ability to complete their tasks in such a way as to generate more revenue than the cost of their labor.
Lower skilled and unskilled workers are a cost. They do not generate revenue.

Fast food restaurants and many retail businesses would not exist without low and unskilled workers. They certainly do generate revenue.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

I have always been gainfully employed, got mad skills, Never had to worry about minimum wage except when I was a young man ...........

The first job I ever worked that actually paid some decent cash was as a heli-arc welder at an aluminum boat plant. That plant was my kind of heaven and n*ggers hell, set in a small rural town, tucked on the edge of a quaint little pond, I spent many of my earlier years here.

As I stated, I was a welder when I started, we got a minimum wage of $2.50 / $2.65 / hr or something in that range, whatever federal minimum wage was at that time. Now here was the gravy train, we got paid piece mill rates, in other words if a 1030(10 foot length, 30" beam) paid $2.50 / ea.

This was forming, cleaning down all seems with wash thinner, tacking of transoms and front ends, both front rakes(where the bottom curves upward to meet the sides), drain plug and finally tote it to the test tank.

Now lead welders could do these babies in 10-12 min, they were worth $2.50 each, you do the math.
The homies didn't stand around with there pants down, they knew if they wanted a pay check it would be performance driven.

Now if we went back to some of these standards of you get paid what you are worth, then most of the left would starve while declaring the right cold harted for not feeding the poor retards.

I really don't care at this point, society is out of control ..............................................

You liberals can have your exercise in $15/ MW.

Hell I don't live in Seatelle, and damn sure want be visiting.

Lets hope when it is done you will come back and discuss it just as Detroit and Chicago, neither of which any of you left wing nut jobs will comment on yoiur bs rhetoric.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Nah, it won't. Folks will eat out regardless.

Sure but since it will cost more they will eat out less thereby making many employees unnecessary

that is easily solved by mandating that the peoples need to eat out a certain number of times per year

or face serious consequences from the government for failing to do so

I know you're joking but why do I think that some people will think it's a good idea?

true

because we have similar happen