Boeing 737: I'm leaving on a jet plane, don't know if I'll be back again

[Denizen]

Boeing is being fingered as the culprit in the Lion Air crash in Indonesia.

The US air safety system is corrupt because the FAA hasn't grounded 737s until the problem is fixed.

This problem must already have been reported multiple times to the FAA and Boeing. So far nothing is fixed.

Boeing's advice, kiss your butt goodbye if it happens.

"The potential fault in the system is that it can push the plane's nose down "unexpectedly and so strongly" that pilots can't pull it back up even when flying manually, the report said. It added that when that happens, the plane could dive or crash."

Boeing didn't disclose possible fault in flight feature suspected in Lion Air crash: WSJ

Boeing didn't disclose possible fault in flight safety feature suspected in Lion Air crash: WSJ
PUBLISHED TUE, NOV 13 2018 • 2:20 AM EST | UPDATED AN HOUR AGO
Yen Nee Lee
KEY POINTS
Boeing failed to warn the airline industry about a potentially dangerous feature in its a new flight-control system that is suspected to play a role in the fatal Lion Air crash in Indonesia last month, The Wall Street Journal said.
That fight-control feature is the automated stall-prevention system found on Boeing 737 MAX 8 and MAX 9 models, which is intended to help pilots avoid raising a plane’s nose too high, the Journal reported.
The potential fault in the system is that it can push the plane’s nose down “unexpectedly and so strongly” that pilots can’t pull it back up even when flying manually, the report said.

Boeing failed to warn the airline industry about a potentially dangerous feature in its a new flight-control system that is suspected of playing a role in the fatal Lion Air crash in Indonesia last month, The Wall Street Journal reported late on Monday.

That aircraft feature is the automated stall-prevention system found on Boeing 737 MAX 8 and MAX 9 models, the Journal reported, citing industry sources including safety experts, aviation regulators and airline pilots.
In response to CNBC's request for comment, Boeing said it is "confident in the safety of the 737 MAX."
"We are taking every measure to fully understand all aspects of this incident, working closely with the investigating team and all regulatory authorities involved," a spokeswoman said in an email.

The system in question is designed to help pilots avoid raising a plane's nose too high, which can cause it to stall, according to the report. The potential fault in the system is that it can push the plane's nose down "unexpectedly and so strongly" that pilots can't pull it back up even when flying manually, the report said. It added that when that happens, the plane could dive or crash.

Boeing revealed the possible fault in a bulletin to airlines about a week after the Lion Air crash, the report indicated.
Lion Air's new Boeing 737 MAX 8 crashed into the Java Sea last month shortly after taking off from Jakarta’s Soekarno-Hatta airport. The plane was carrying 189 people, including crew.
For the full report on Boeing’s flight control feature, read The Wall Street Jo

 

[caddo kid]

profit over human life is the calling card of capitalism & Boeing is not immune to this

 

[Denizen]

profit over human life is the calling card of capitalism & Boeing is not immune to this

Boeing management should be charged with culpable homicide.

 

[williepete]

Still under investigation.

Cause of crash unknown at this point.

UPDATE: On Friday Nov. 2, 2018, an update on the investigation into Lion Air flight JT610 posted to the Lion Air Group website confirmed that the Indonesian search and rescue agency, Basarnas, has located the flight data recorder (FDR) from the aircraft. The FDR has been submitted to the National Transportation Safety Committee (KNKT).

The cause of the accident has not yet been determined, and Indonesia’s search-and-rescue agency still has not located the aircraft. Here is everything that’s been reported so far about Lion Air flight JT610.

UPDATE: Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX Crash Investigation Ongoing - Avionics

Although there is not enough information to be certain what caused the crash, investigators' attention is focused on that system, which can move the jet's horizontal tail to pitch the nose up or down.

Scrutiny in deadly Lion Air 737 crash turns to automated systems that command plane's pitch

 

[williepete]

Should know something more solid around the middle of next month.

Indonesian navy divers on Thursday recovered a flight recorder from Lion Air Flight JT610, which crashed Monday outside Jakarta. Transport officials do not yet know whether the retrieved device is the flight data recorder or cockpit voice recorder.

A preliminary accident report should be available in a month, though a full report will take several months.

Indonesian Divers Recover Flight Recorder that May Explain Mystery of Crashed Boeing 737 Max

 

[Denizen]

Boeing committed culpable homicide.

The FAA is complicit and corrupt.

 

[Denizen]

More information is emerging that Boeing withheld information from pilots about how to overcome problems caused by the new anti-stall software.

That is culpable homicide of both Boeing and the FAA.

Boeing 737 Crash Caused By New Safety System Pilots Weren't Told Existed - ExtremeTech

Boeing 737 Crash Caused By New Safety System Pilots Weren’t Told Existed
Joel Hruska on November 13, 2018 at 4:01 pm

Modern aircraft are staggeringly complex. There’s a complex interconnected web of systems controlled by both the pilot and co-pilot and the onboard computers dedicated to keeping the airborne meat-filled-tube-with-wings-attached firmly in the air. When an aircraft is lost, it’s an international tragedy. Modern aircraft typically don’t fall out of the sky without warning, which is why the Lion Air 610 crash on October 29 that killed 189 people was such an unusual event. New information suggests the blame for that event in Indonesia rests squarely on Boeing’s shoulders.

FAA officials and airline pilots are zeroing in on a new anti-stall system as being responsible for the crash, The Wall Street Journal reports. Workers on an oil platform near where the airline slammed into the water report that it struck at a steep, nose-down angle. That’s significant, because a week after the crash, Boeing distributed a warning to airlines worldwide that a new anti-stall system on the 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 could cause the aircraft’s nose to suddenly drop, resulting in a steep dive. This can occur even when the aircraft is under manual control and when pilots don’t expect the flight computer to override their actions.


A stall can occur when the nose of the plane is elevated, so a new system that pushes the nose down could make sense, but pilots weren’t trained on how to recover the Boeing 737 MAX from this event. Previous 737s lacked this feature. Illustration by Wikipedia.

It gets worse. According to Indonesian investigators and multiple pilot organizations, this scenario isn’t covered in the 737 MAX 8 or MAX 9 flight manual and was not taught to pilots. Bloomberg reports that none of the documentation for the aircraft explained the existence or function of the system. Boeing has stated that the Lion Air 610 received “erroneous input” from one of its AOA (angle-of-attack) sensors, which was presumably at least partly responsible for the flight computer’s decision to drop the aircraft’s nose and engage the stall prevention system. But without proper training, the flight crew on the aircraft would not have known how to recover the plane. Previous 737s did not push the nose of the aircraft down as part of stall prevention.

Bloomberg notes that “A long-standing procedure taught to pilots could have halted the dive, according to the regulator and the manufacturer. The FAA ordered airlines to add an explanation into flight manuals,” but does not state what the procedure was. In a situation like this, knowing the aircraft inside and out is critical. Lion Air 610 had only been in the air for 13 minutes and had already requested permission to return to Jakarta and land. We can assume, therefore, that the aircraft was well below its target altitude when the steep descent began. An aircraft in emergency descent can drop quickly; this Quora link suggests 6,000 – 7,000 feet per minute is not uncommon. While we don’t know what nose angle the anti-stall system set or the altitude of the aircraft, a little envelope math suggests the pilots had very little time to pull the aircraft out of the dive.

In that kind of scenario, there may only be time to try a single method of recovering the plane, and the Lion Air pilots obviously guessed incorrectly. They shouldn’t have been guessing at all.

The WSJ also states that one of the selling points of the 737 MAX, according to Boeing, was that pilots wouldn’t need any additional simulator time to learn the aircraft, and that the company opted not to disclose additional technical information in the belief that doing so would “inundate” pilots with technical details they neither needed nor could grasp.