Blood boiler.

[Doug]

Is everyone sitting comfortably? Feeling relaxed? Need your blood pressure raised? Then click this.

Please note that this is visual proof that (1) there is indeed a hate-America Left, and (2) liberals are not the same thing as them. (This memorial meeting was sponsored by both Young Republicans AND Young Democrats.)

 

[Larkinn]

Is everyone sitting comfortably? Feeling relaxed? Need your blood pressure raised? Then click this.

Please note that this is visual proof that (1) there is indeed a hate-America Left, and (2) liberals are not the same thing as them. (This memorial meeting was sponsored by both Young Republicans AND Young Democrats.)

Just as there is a Hate America right...This group is anarchist left...they are about as liberal as Phelps is conservative.

BTW...Democrats and Liberals are also not the same thing.

 

[eots]

Is everyone sitting comfortably? Feeling relaxed? Need your blood pressure raised? Then click this.

Please note that this is visual proof that (1) there is indeed a hate-America Left, and (2) liberals are not the same thing as them. (This memorial meeting was sponsored by both Young Republicans AND Young Democrats.)

why should ground zero be sacred a false flag operation used as a pretext for war..it should be remembered as should those who died in the event and the illegal war that followed..but it is not a sacred cow

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just as there is a Hate America right...This group is anarchist left...they are about as liberal as Phelps is conservative.

BTW...Democrats and Liberals are also not the same thing.

Sure thing, The Democratic party is NOT run by the Liberals, if you believe that I have a Bridge I wanna sell ya. nearly new too.

I love how you equate the religious right as being who Republicans are but can claim Democrats are not Liberal at all.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

i am so angry!. I found the number to sfsu, and the person there told me the best way to get in touch with the president of sfsu is

and here is the email i sent the president. [email protected]

How dare your campus go after the college republicans. They have every right to express their views and burn any flag they want. And for you to allow left wing fanatics to take away their right to free speech, simply because they are haters and disagree is shameful

I expect a phone call or email response from your personally.

And i expect action done, or will continue emailing and calling your office, on a daily basis if neccesary.

i dont care if most of your faculty and students are liberal (to put it mildly), if they are going to verbally or physically attack people, then you need to fire them and kick them off campus, its one thing to express an opinion, but you, and your faculty and your students, have NO right to shout down anyone!, or stop them from exercising their first amendment rights

my number is ***-***-**** home
***-***-**** cell

Thank you for your time sir

(in the email i give my number)

Is everyone sitting comfortably? Feeling relaxed? Need your blood pressure raised? Then click this.

Please note that this is visual proof that (1) there is indeed a hate-America Left, and (2) liberals are not the same thing as them. (This memorial meeting was sponsored by both Young Republicans AND Young Democrats.)

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I grant you that liberals and democrats are not the same thing. Their are some decent people who are democrat.

However, the right in america, does not shout down and use physical and verbal violence to stop liberal speakers on campusses, simply because #1 republicans actually believe in free speech and tolerance unlike the neo-liberal democratic party, and 2nd their a minority, even if they wanted to, they dont have the numbers,and for the college to stand by and allow this facist left behavior means they condone it, because they agree with it,and are too cowardly to say stop it, and enforce that.

Just as there is a Hate America right...This group is anarchist left...they are about as liberal as Phelps is conservative.

BTW...Democrats and Liberals are also not the same thing.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Hey eots!. They were doing a ceremony for the victims of 9/11, it had nothing to do with politics other then to say, we dont support terrorists.

And what did the left wing facists do, shout them down, because the left is not about tolerance, no not at all, its about indoctrination.

Its basically the same as al queda, except for the bombs.

Meaning, they will harm you for not agreeing and are terrorists in their own right on college campuses, when a conservative view point is raised

why should ground zero be sacred a false flag operation used as a pretext for war..it should be remembered as should those who died in the event and the illegal war that followed..but it is not a sacred cow

 

[Larkinn]

Sure thing, The Democratic party is NOT run by the Liberals, if you believe that I have a Bridge I wanna sell ya. nearly new too.

I love how you equate the religious right as being who Republicans are but can claim Democrats are not Liberal at all.

And you wonder why I think you are a fucking moron?

No, the Democratic party is not run by the liberals. If they were we wouldn't be in Iraq. But hey, we are, aren't we. You are so far right that you think anything that isn't ultra conservative is liberal. Peh, get some perspective.

As for when did I say that Republicans are made up of the religious right? When did I say that Democrats are not liberal at all? Oh wait, I'm playing word games right? Because in your deluded pathetic little mind the distinction between "there is a difference between Liberals and Democrats" i.e. do not use the words interchangably and "they have nothing in common" are somehow the same thing? I know....terrible minor semantics that I should want you to read what I SAY and not what you think a liberal might say.

Think before you spew.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

wait a minute, who is running the democratic party, moderates ?

And you wonder why I think you are a fucking moron?

No, the Democratic party is not run by the liberals. If they were we wouldn't be in Iraq. But hey, we are, aren't we. You are so far right that you think anything that isn't ultra conservative is liberal. Peh, get some perspective.

As for when did I say that Republicans are made up of the religious right? When did I say that Democrats are not liberal at all? Oh wait, I'm playing word games right? Because in your deluded pathetic little mind the distinction between "there is a difference between Liberals and Democrats" i.e. do not use the words interchangably and "they have nothing in common" are somehow the same thing? I know....terrible minor semantics that I should want you to read what I SAY and not what you think a liberal might say.

Think before you spew.

 

[Larkinn]

wait a minute, who is running the democratic party, moderates ?

Look at Reids voting record. Not exactly a shining example of liberalism.

There are, undoubtably, elements of liberalism in the Democratic Party. But it is most definitely NOT "run by them".

 

[doniston]

And you wonder why I think you are a fucking moron?

No, the Democratic party is not run by the liberals. If they were we wouldn't be in Iraq. But hey, we are, aren't we. You are so far right that you think anything that isn't ultra conservative is liberal. Peh, get some perspective.

As for when did I say that Republicans are made up of the religious right? When did I say that Democrats are not liberal at all? Oh wait, I'm playing word games right? Because in your deluded pathetic little mind the distinction between "there is a difference between Liberals and Democrats" i.e. do not use the words interchangably and "they have nothing in common" are somehow the same thing? I know....terrible minor semantics that I should want you to read what I SAY and not what you think a liberal might say.

Think before you spew.

I fully agree. I am a liberal, in most things, but definitely not a democrate. I totally disagree woth with much of what the democrates are presently doing. and I agree if we the liberals were in command, we would not be in Iraq, or getting ready to unleach a war on Iran.

We would have much more sense.

 

[Gunny]

Is everyone sitting comfortably? Feeling relaxed? Need your blood pressure raised? Then click this.

Please note that this is visual proof that (1) there is indeed a hate-America Left, and (2) liberals are not the same thing as them. (This memorial meeting was sponsored by both Young Republicans AND Young Democrats.)

People that hate it here so bad should take their stupid little acts elsewhere.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

How do i find voting records, ive never looked that info up, how do you find that stuff?

Im not condemning all democrats.

Do you honestly believe that the democrats are run by moderates?

the democratic leadership coalition or was it counsel with ford , former senator of tennesse, couldnt get one major democratic presidential contender.

Look at Reids voting record. Not exactly a shining example of liberalism.

There are, undoubtably, elements of liberalism in the Democratic Party. But it is most definitely NOT "run by them".

 

[eots]

Hey eots!. They were doing a ceremony for the victims of 9/11, it had nothing to do with politics other then to say, we dont support terrorists.

And what did the left wing facists do, shout them down, because the left is not about tolerance, no not at all, its about indoctrination.

Its basically the same as al queda, except for the bombs.

Meaning, they will harm you for not agreeing and are terrorists in their own right on college campuses, when a conservative view point is raised

everything is about politics to have a ceremony for the victims of 911 without addressing all the death that was unjustly perpetrated in the name of these victims is a political statement and once the statement we don't support terrorist is out there the door is open to ask who's the terrorist and if your going to call people fascists you should know how to spell it first

 

[actsnoblemartin]

they were having a ceremony to honor the dead. That was it.

the liberal protesters had NO class.

everything is about politics to have a ceremony for the victims of 911 without addressing all the death that was unjustly perpetrated in the name of these victims is a political statement and once the statement we don't support terrorist is out there the door is open to ask who's the terrorist and if your going to call people fascists you should know how to spell it first

 

[Doug]

(1) Liberals do not run the Democratic Party any more than conservatives run the Republican Party. Both political parties are run by politicians whose major concern is to get elected, in a country where there are a lot of liberals (about 20% of adults) and a lot of conservatives (about 30% of adults) but where the decisive majority of voters in most areas are neither.

(2) There is a diversity of opinion on the Left, a spectrum running from patriotic moderate centrist liberals all the way out to the scum who disrupted this liberal-conservative memorial meeting, the Revolutionary Communist Party.

There is even more diversity of opinion within the Right.

(3) Any serious person with a brain tries to take advantage of divisions within his enemy's camp.

(4) Liberals are easily manipulated by those to their Left, who will use liberal race and class guilt to draw them into Leftist projects. The far Left also use the liberals for respectable cover in many situations.

(5) It is in the interests of conservatives to see -- and to help happen if possible -- the development of a realistic, patriotic, non-pacifist, pro-American, pro-capitalist tendency within the Left.

(6) Thus if this rally at San Francisco State College was the initiative of the Young Republicans, they did exactly the right thing to invite the Young Democrats to co-sponsor it with them. Maybe some of these Young Dems learned a lesson about the despicable character of the people they might be invited to march against the war with next month.

In Iraq we are engaging in joint patrols with people who were shooting at us last year. And we are winning because of this. Now if we can work with an Islamic militant who happens not to want to be ruled by the madmen of Al Queada, we can sure as hell work with an American liberal, if it is to our advantage. The world is full of differences and distinctions and contradictions, and we have to take advantage of them.

 

[ReillyT]

i am so angry!. I found the number to sfsu, and the person there told me the best way to get in touch with the president of sfsu is

and here is the email i sent the president. [email protected]

How dare your campus go after the college republicans. They have every right to express their views and burn any flag they want. And for you to allow left wing fanatics to take away their right to free speech, simply because they are haters and disagree is shameful

I expect a phone call or email response from your personally.

And i expect action done, or will continue emailing and calling your office, on a daily basis if neccesary.

i dont care if most of your faculty and students are liberal (to put it mildly), if they are going to verbally or physically attack people, then you need to fire them and kick them off campus, its one thing to express an opinion, but you, and your faculty and your students, have NO right to shout down anyone!, or stop them from exercising their first amendment rights

my number is ***-***-**** home
***-***-**** cell

Thank you for your time sir

(in the email i give my number)

I don't know why this is a big deal. For the most part, it looks like a group of (maybe 3-5) kids barely out of puberty who are taking the opportunity to grab some attention for themselves. This doesn't reflect on Republicans, Democrats, Liberals or SFSU - it reflects on stupid-ass kids. In a couple of years, they will grow up a bit, and a new group of stupid kids (with an equal lack of class and perspective) will take their place.

As for the basic message that 9/11 was used to justify an illegal war, that is an area where actual discussion could be held. Unfortunately, for the most part, people barely out of puberty are ill-equipped (maturity-wise) to have this discussion in a proper setting and manner.

On a separate note, good production value on that video from the College Republicans. I liked the ominous-sounding music.

 

[Doug]

Whether it's a big deal or not will depend on how stable the American social and political system is in the next few years. Will we see a repeat of the 60s, which saw a profound transformation on the part of American liberalism?

A relevant fact about the counter-demonstrators: they were from the Revolutionary Communist Party, a hard-line Maoist-Stalinist outfit that traces its history to SDS in the late 60s. When young American liberals radicalized during the Vietnam War, almost all of them developed into some sort of totalitarian radical, not into, say, libertarian socialism or anarchism.

Liberty-loving radicals were a serious force in the United States before WWI -- the IWW and Eugene Debs' Socialist Party were anything but authoritarian Leftists. But since the Russian Revolution, people who move to the far Left move, in the main, to some form of totalitarian gulag-socialism. There were other totalitarian-left political currents which came from SDS -- the Progressive Labor Party (who existed prior to SDS), the Weathermen, and a somewhat more squishy Maoist grouping that has long disappeared.

The Revolutionary Communist Party hails as co-thinkers the Shining Path group in Peru. This was (is) an especially murderous group: one of their specialities was killing other leftists who did not agree with them.

Although the RCP has only a few hundred members, we must not underestimate the ability of a group of highly dedicated people to influence events. The anti-Vietnam War movement in America was largely built by the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party, and where the SWP was not the leadership, then usually another variety of communist was.

The anti-war movement in the US today is assembled in three groupings: Not In Our Name, A.N.S.W.E.R., and the Coalition for Peace and Justice. The first group is an RCP front, the second is run by the Trotskyist Workers World Party (who love North Korea) and the latter is influenced by the remnants of the old Communist Party.

How is it that numerically-small groups can have such a disparate impact on political events? In a word: when they can manipulate liberals. And this turns out to be a pretty easy thing to do. There are lots of historical examples, just in America alone.

The members of these groups believe that they are fighting for heaven on earth. Their whole lives are dedicated to politics: they will happily attend six meetings a week; they will get up at 4am to be at the factory gates at 6am to sell their newspaper; if necessary they will move across the country to get a job in an industry that the Party wants to "colonize"; if anyone shows any interest in their organization, that person will be assiduously courted, invited to dinner, invited to parties, and gradually drawn into Party membership (this explains the high rate of "odd" individuals in such organizations -- they have found a home); the members will give a large proportion of their disposable income to their organization, as well as providing many hours a week of free labor for it. The nearest thing to such self-sacrificing dedication is to be found in certain evangelical Christian groups.

However, they normally have little impact. It is only when there is a "big issue" around which they can organize, some potentially-popular issue such as opposing war or racism or unemployment, that they can really have an impact. This is because they can provide experienced, talented, dedicated cadres to organize such a movement. They already know how to make signs, write leaflets, build marches and organize demonstrations. So they can provide leadership to liberals and unaffiliated vaguely leftist people who happen to believe in "peace" or "racial justice" without believing in communism.

This is how the Communist Party ended up leading eleven national American labor unions -- one-third of the CIO -- by the late thirties. It took dedication and guts to go stand outside an unorganized steel plant and brave company goons to hand out pro-union leaflets. You would have had a hard time hiring people to do that -- the Communists did it for free. So John Lewis (the miners' leader who initiated the organizing of the CIO) "used" the Communist Party to do his organizing -- but of course the Communists used their efforts to get a toe-hold in the organized labor movement.

In the 30s, there was a united socialist movement: 95% of people who wanted socialism or were sympathetic to it looked to the Soviet Union and its satellite parties like the CPUSA to lead the struggle for socialism. Today, the American far Left is wonderfully divided among half-a-dozen little organizations, each with its own would-be Stalin as leader. They hate each other far more than they hate us. (Which suggests that we should, where we can, encourage the scorpions-in-a-bottle strategy. For instance, when radical group X organizes an anti-war rally, we should make sure that radical groups Y and Z are encouraged to attend, possibly via an anonymous invitation to send a speaker.)

If one or more of these groups is active in your area -- and in particular on campus, since 90% of their recruits are students -- it would pay you to know more about their particular political positions in detail. Most of them have a few skeletons in their closet that embarrass them. Not their endoresement of slave labor camps and mass murder, but things that the rest of the Left, and their potential recruits, don't like.

For instance, the RCP we see in that video used to have the position that homosexuality was a manifestation of bourgeois decadence and that after the Revolution homosexuals would be "re-educated". Now this is no more than the actual practice in Stalinist countries, and yet it was intensely unpopular on the American Left. So, rather than get into a shouting match about George Bush with the RCP, it might have been more productive to innocently ask them, seeing as they were in San Francisco, to explain their line on gay people. They have since changed it -- even these hard liners couldn't stand the social pressure from the rest of the Left -- but it might still have been fruitful to get them to explain why they had changed, and had they taken power before their change of line, where the re-education camps for homosexuals would have been located?

The significance of these groups, and of individuals like Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky who share their general world-view about American capitalism, is not what they themselves might do. Rather, they serve as transmission stations for ideas that are then absorbed, in watered-down form, by the broad do-gooder soft-left milieu. These people are not revolutionists, but they are sympathetic to the idea. Which accounts for the great popularity of Zinn and Chomsky and similar types on American campuses, the stronghold of liberalism.

A much more interesting question is raised by this video: how should conservatives relate to pro-American liberals? Perhaps worth discussing on another thread.

(Most of this is from something I wrote for a different board. I hope that's okay with the admin here.)