Black Hawk Down: Shades of Dallas Air Show 11/12/22?

[Cassandro]

I wonder if there is a similarity between the recent Potomac air crash and the Dallas air show crash in 2022? In both cases, two planes were making last minute left turns when they crashed into slower aircraft beneath them. Could sudden banking by the higher aircraft have created blind spots covering the lower ones?

 

[Donald H]

I wonder if there is a similarity between the recent Potomac air crash and the Dallas air show crash in 2022? In both cases, two planes were making last minute left turns when they crashed into slower aircraft beneath them. Could sudden banking by the higher aircraft have created blind spots covering the lower ones?

No. The helicopter was completely to blame. Two obvious reasons why were exposed soon after the incident.

 

[Cassandro]

No. The helicopter was completely to blame. Two obvious reasons why were exposed soon after the incident.

What were the two obvious reasons and how did they directly cause the crash?

 

[Dekster]

What were the two obvious reasons and how did they directly cause the crash?

They were off their approved flight path and were flying above their approved altitude. They also claimed to have the plane in sight which clearly they didn't unless they were suicidal.

 

[Donald H]

What were the two obvious reasons and how did they directly cause the crash?

You will only learn by seeking to find your own answers. But I will start you off this time.

1. Helicopter pilot accepted responsibility from the air traffic controllers.

2. (hint) respective elevation.

Forget the clusterfk of American blame shifting.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Had the helicopter not violated altitude restrictions, visual contact would have been moot.

 

[whitehall]

The mainstream media seems reluctant to blame the Soldiers in the helicopter although evidence seems to indicate the helicopter being at fault.

 

[Cassandro]

Had the helicopter not violated altitude restrictions, visual contact would have been moot.

But it DID violate altitude restrictions, so visual contact was NOT moot. THAT is what I was asking: Why wasn't EITHER aircraft aware of the impending collision? Weren't there any automatic proximity warning indicators aboard? Were BOTH aircraft solely dependent on visual contact, especially at night?

In the airliner, could a steep turn have blocked its view of the helicopter? That is what happened at the 2022 Dallas Air Show, where the pilot of a P-63 Kingcobra executed a steep turn and lost sight of a slower B-17 and crashed into it.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

But it DID violate altitude restrictions, so visual contact was NOT moot. THAT is what I was asking: Why wasn't EITHER aircraft aware of the impending collision? Weren't there any automatic proximity warning indicators aboard? Were BOTH aircraft solely dependent on visual contact, especially at night?

In the airliner, could a steep turn have blocked its view of the helicopter? That is what happened at the 2022 Dallas Air Show, where the pilot of a P-63 Kingcobra executed a steep turn and lost sight of a slower B-17 and crashed into it.

Then the altitude violation was the culprit. Not much time or distance at that point to make any correction, visual confirmation or not.

 

[Cassandro]

Then the altitude violation was the culprit. Not much time or distance at that point to make any correction, visual confirmation or not.

Altitude itself does not affect time, distance or visibility. Why do you think that it was an unavoidable accident?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Altitude itself does not affect time, distance or visibility. Why do you think that it was an unavoidable accident?

Never said it was unavoidable. It was due to an altitude error.
What’s more, a helicopter can much more quickly violate an altitude restriction due to its direct climb capability. However, in this case, it appears that the helicopter was already in altitude violation as it proceeded southwest toward (likely) Ft. Belvoir.
My guess is that the chopper pilot was focused on planes approaching the more common and longer north/south runway while this plane had been diverted to the shorter SE/NW runway.

 

[Cassandro]

Never said it was unavoidable. It was due to an altitude error.
What’s more, a helicopter can much more quickly violate an altitude restriction due to its direct climb capability. However, in this case, it appears that the helicopter was already in altitude violation as it proceeded southwest toward (likely) Ft. Belvoir.
My guess is that the chopper pilot was focused on planes approaching the more common and longer north/south runway while this plane had been diverted to the shorter SE/NW runway.

Why wasn't the passenger jet pilot aware of the helicopter?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Why wasn't the passenger jet pilot aware of the helicopter?

Likely focused on approach lights and not expecting any conflict.

 

[PeterPilot]

Why wasn't the passenger jet pilot aware of the helicopter?

I read somewhere that review of the flight data recorder showed the airline pilot attempted pull up at the last second. Too late. He was on a stabilized approach and in a low energy state. So sad.

 

[Foxfyre]

I read somewhere that review of the flight data recorder showed the airline pilot attempted pull up at the last second. Too late. He was on a stabilized approach and in a low energy state. So sad.

For sure a passenger jet is not a fighter jet that can turn on a dime.

 

[Cassandro]

The passenger jet must have been coming in high to Runway 1 when it was diverted to Runway 33. This required right and left banking maneuvers that may have obscured the pilot's vision of the helicopter. In addition, the helicopter pilot may not have been releasing his talk button quickly enough to hear all instructions from the tower. He may have been told to pass behind the jet, but was not aware of its altitude.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

The passenger jet must have been coming in high to Runway 1 when it was diverted to Runway 33. This required right and left banking maneuvers that may have obscured the pilot's vision of the helicopter. In addition, the helicopter pilot may not have been releasing his talk button quickly enough to hear all instructions from the tower. He may have been told to pass behind the jet, but was not aware of its altitude.

Had the helicopter been at the proper altitude, all of that would have been moot.

 

[Cassandro]

Had the helicopter been at the proper altitude, all of that would have been moot.

I'm not sure if it was the helicopter or passenger jet that was at the wrong altitude (or both).

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

I'm not sure if it was the helicopter or passenger jet that was at the wrong altitude (or both).

Helicopter. Jet doesn’t have the flexibility on approach.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I wonder if there is a similarity between the recent Potomac air crash and the Dallas air show crash in 2022? In both cases, two planes were making last minute left turns when they crashed into slower aircraft beneath them. Could sudden banking by the higher aircraft have created blind spots covering the lower ones?

The aircraft was on glide slope.