Bernie Sanders nails the Republican Party

[bripat9643]

An obvious example of socialism and communism in our current USA society is public education.
While it is true that can't work unless everyone pays their taxes, at the same time, I doubt there is anyone who thinks public education is a bad idea.
So is compulsion really necessary in order to have public education?

Public education is a disaster. It's hardly an argument in favor of socialism.

There are plenty of people who know it's a bad idea.

Compulsion is obviously necessary. Who would pay their taxes if they weren't forced to?

 

[USAF 2023]

I don’t agree with everything Bernie says but he hit it out of the park here. Prove me wrong.

Please tell us what “ Conspiracy theories and big lies” The Vaccine was made possible under the Trump Administration! Remember “ Vice President” Harris tell us she didn’t Trust the Vaccine because it was developed under Trump’s administration?


Tell is exactly how Republicans are trying to suppress the vote and why Delaware’s voting laws are far more suppressive then Georgia’s yet we don’t hear a word

Trump denied Climate Change? Biden is denying Illegal Immigration which includes drugs, those infected with the Virus, etc. yet that’s OK with you

 

[bripat9643]

While you have a point that we are a lot more crowded and high tech, you need to make your point more clear?
Are you saying we should have cell phones and flat screen TVs, and that capitalism is the only way to have them?
If so, maybe I can see a point in that capitalism is more innovative and allows faster adoption of high tech?
But it also can be very inefficient, in that its more of a "winner take all", with a lot of bankrupt, failed competition.
For example, capitalism saddled us with Microsoft, when Borland, and other companies were a gazillion times better.
Microsoft won by cheating, like buying up shelf space.

Private property is what allows for the division of labor. Without it, you can't have complex products like cell phones. You can't have cell phones without capitalism, period.

How is capitalism "inefficient?" What are you comparing it with? It's certainly more efficient than socialism. Bankruptcy is one of the things that makes capitalism efficient. Under socialism, inefficient enterprises that make products the public doesn't want never go away. Efficiency requires that such enterprises become extinct.

How was Borland better than Microsoft? How did the later "cheat?"

 

[Rigby5]

Communism doesn't allow for the division of labor to work. Therefore it's only fit for societies where everyone does the same thing.

How so?
If everyone puts in X amount of hours a day working, and they all need the same Y necessities like 3 meals a day, a warm and dry bed to sleep in, etc., it should not be hard to ensure everyone has what they need for different skills and experience, to fill a diversified economic pyramid?

The only problem we have is when we claim those working equally hard should not be equally compensated.
In fact, those who take the most compensation, do the least in our society, like health insurance companies.
They provide absolutely nothing, and extort payment based solely on monopoly.

 

[bripat9643]

How so?
If everyone puts in X amount of hours a day working, and they all need the same Y necessities like 3 meals a day, a warm and dry bed to sleep in, etc., it should not be hard to ensure everyone has what they need for different skills and experience, to fill a diversified economic pyramid?

The only problem we have is when we claim those working equally hard should not be equally compensated.
In fact, those who take the most compensation, do the least in our society, like health insurance companies.
They provide absolutely nothing, and extort payment based solely on monopoly.

How would they have different skills? How would these skills develope without private ownership of property? Why would anyone endeavor to become a blacksmith when no such occupation existed?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I don’t agree with everything Bernie says but he hit it out of the park here. Prove me wrong.

Sanders is correct.

 

[kaz]

The Communist Manifesto NOT advocate government control, it says the goal is to eliminate government completely

I said that it advocates eliminating government completely. Try reading my post again

 

[Rigby5]

I have a leftist Jewish friend who lived a bunch of his life in a kubutz.

We and I had a pretty interesting conversation. He said that is Communism and it works.

I replied that it ONLY works because everyone wants to be there, everyone buys into the model, and the community is small enough that everyone is personally answerable to everyone else. There are no layers of unaccountable bureaucracy. It would never work on a government scale because none of those three reasons would apply.

He agreed that was right. Then we had a beer!

Except that those layers of unaccountable bureaucracy not only are much greater under capitalism, but capitalism encourages everyone to create as many layers of unaccountable bureaucracy as possible.
And again, health insurance companies are a perfect example of that.
So clearly capitalism could never work on a large scale.
That emphasis on profit over human values has always and will always result in slavery and feudalism.
Why pay anyone a fair wage when you can force them to work for minimal subsistence?
Obviously slavery and feudalism are the goal of all capitalists.

 

[bripat9643]

Sanders is correct.

He's never correct. He's a socialist, which means he's an imbecile.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I don’t agree with everything Bernie says but he hit it out of the park here. Prove me wrong.

Does all of this trolling do something for you?
Please tell me you don't buy this rhetorical white noise? Right?
Oh wait... of course you do.

 

[kaz]

Except that those layers of unaccountable bureaucracy not only are much greater under capitalism, but capitalism encourages everyone to create as many layers of unaccountable bureaucracy as possible.
And again, health insurance companies are a perfect example of that.
So clearly capitalism could never work on a large scale.
That emphasis on profit over human values has always and will always result in slavery and feudalism.
Why pay anyone a fair wage when you can force them to work for minimal subsistence?
Obviously slavery and feudalism are the goal of all capitalists.

You're full of shit. That makes no sense.

It only works when government restricts competition, which is SOCIALISM not CAPITALISM.

In capitalism, market failures die. In socialism they never do. CRONY CAPITALISM IS SOCIALISM

 

[USAF 2023]

He's never correct. He's a socialist, which means he's an imbecile.

To those who agree with Sanders, how much of one’s income should go to the Gov’t starting from the poor ( which pay nothing) to the very top

 

[bripat9643]

Except that those layers of unaccountable bureaucracy not only are much greater under capitalism, but capitalism encourages everyone to create as many layers of unaccountable bureaucracy as possible.
And again, health insurance companies are a perfect example of that.
So clearly capitalism could never work on a large scale.
That emphasis on profit over human values has always and will always result in slavery and feudalism.
Why pay anyone a fair wage when you can force them to work for minimal subsistence?
Obviously slavery and feudalism are the goal of all capitalists.

That's obvious bullshit. Under capitalism, unnecessary bureaucracy reduces profits and may cause a company to go bankrupt. There is a clear motive to reduce bureaucracy under capitalism. Under socialism, there is no such incentive. Socialism is what results in slavery and feudalism. We've already seen multiple examples of that.

You can't force anyone to work for minimal subsistence under capitalism because they can easily go elsewhere.

Obviously slavery and feudalism are the goal of all socialists.

 

[Likkmee]

So tell me again why people are leaving their countries to get to a place that you believe is not worth existing?
Why are they fleeing those socialist countries to come here?

The smart ones come and hoard cash and go back to buy real estate in their shithole of birth.
My buddy Armando did CA for a year + 1/2 and came back with 60 grand cash and got 15 acres and a late model Tundra.
He went back in Mar 2021....for a bit..
He'll be back here to plant fruit trees(1400 or so avocados) and build a house and that's the end of that.
7 years in TGS , damn good English, business degree. All is OK
Permanent ? NEVER
Money is great but the standard of living sucks.

 

[Rigby5]

Private property is what allows for the division of labor. Without it, you can't have complex products like cell phones. You can't have cell phones without capitalism, period.

How is capitalism "inefficient?" What are you comparing it with? It's certainly more efficient than socialism. Bankruptcy is one of the things that makes capitalism efficient. Under socialism, inefficient enterprises that make products the public doesn't want never go away. Efficiency requires that such enterprises become extinct.

How was Borland better than Microsoft? How did the later "cheat?"

I don't see the point?
With government you have civil service division of labor.
You have different specialists on health, housing, structural engineering, finance, etc.
That is like claiming the Army does not have motorpool specialists for some reason, because they are government?
I don't see your point?

Almost everything we have invented came from government research, like the internet, NASA, DARPA, etc.
I don't know the exact history of cellphones, but I bet it came from military needs and DARPA research.

When you have one company gaining a monopoly and making a dozen go bankrupt, that is not efficient at all.
Huge amounts of labor are wasted and lost.

Socialism does not at all prevent advancement.
Again, the space race, evolution of planes from propeller to jets, etc., were all accomplished by the government.
It is only government that can be innovative, since they don't need to make a profit, and can try risks.
What product has socialism made that people did not want but would not go away?

Companies like Borland, Digital Research, etc., make better operating systems, languages, integrated development environments, software tools, etc. They were smaller, faster, cheaper, less buggy, easier to use, etc.
One of the ways Microsoft cheated was to buy up shelf space, denying competition being able to be sold by wholesalers and retailers, if those retailers and wholesalers wanted to buy ANY of Microsoft's products at all.
When I wanted to buy computers wholesale, say 10 of them, I had no choice as to what OS they came with.
If I wanted no OS because I wanted to load my own, it still came with Windows on it. Buyers were not given any option. So then all the competition with much BETTER operating systems, could not compete. Any alternative OS would have increased the price, since Windows was already included whether you wanted it or not.

 

[Rigby5]

That's obvious bullshit. Under capitalism, unnecessary bureaucracy reduces profits and may cause a company to go bankrupt. There is a clear motive to reduce bureaucracy under capitalism. Under socialism, there is no such incentive. Socialism is what results in slavery and feudalism. We've already seen multiple examples of that.

You can't force anyone to work for minimal subsistence under capitalism because they can easily go elsewhere.

Obviously slavery and feudalism are the goal of all socialists.

Totally wrong.
Socialism and communism are communal, so then no one is profiting by trying to force anyone else to do anything.
It is only under capitalism where some people profit from harming others, like with slavery or feudalism.
The whole point of capitalism is to prevent the worker from going elsewhere.
Slavery like with Blacks in the South obviously was capitalism, but similar things were tried by capitalists who created company towns, where you become a slave due to debt to the company store.

It is not hard to show example of how capitalism leads to extortion.
{...
When news broke that his company bought the rights to a 62-year-old drug and jacked the price up from $13.50 to $750 a pill, the CEO of Turing Pharmaceuticals Martin Shkreli became “the most hated man in America.”
Shock and outrage over the 5,000% price increase for Daraprim, a drug long used to treat parasitic infections in HIV patients and pregnant women, was swift and widespread. But Shkreli's attempt to turn a hefty profit on an old pharmaceutical product is far from the first or only example of this practice. Other companies have been snapping up the rights to inexpensive, off-patent drugs and reselling them at a much higher cost—often with no added value in sight.
RELATED: Prescription Drugs That Lead Double Lives
“It's a trend,” Scott Knoer, the chief pharmacy officer at the Cleveland Clinic explained to Health. Annual drug costs at his institution went up by $11.2 million thanks to sharp increases in the prices of nine different drugs. “If you multiply that by hundreds of hospitals across the country, it's kind of mind-boggling.”
...}

Diabetes in 2021 Means Rationing Medicine to Afford the Cost of Staying Alive

Individuals living with diabetes are often forced to ration medicine, not eat, change jobs or move just to afford the basic care they need to survive.

www.health.com

 

[Rigby5]

The smart ones come and hoard cash and go back to buy real estate in their shithole of birth.
My buddy Armando did CA for a year + 1/2 and came back with 60 grand cash and got 15 acres and a late model Tundra.
He went back in Mar 2021....for a bit..
He'll be back here to plant fruit trees(1400 or so avocados) and build a house and that's the end of that.
7 years in TGS , damn good English, business degree. All is OK
Permanent ? NEVER
Money is great but the standard of living sucks.

I always went to where the salaries were highest when I was working, but lowest when I wanted just to invest.
I double the number of rental properties I had by shifting from Portland OR to Albuquerque, NM; but the rents are very similar, so my income almost doubled. When people are too poor to afford the down payment, then rents end up being higher. So landlords can make out without any effort. The renters purchase the properties for me.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't see the point?
With government you have civil service division of labor.
You have different specialists on health, housing, structural engineering, finance, etc.
That is like claiming the Army does not have motorpool specialists for some reason, because they are government?
I don't see your point?

Really? Where was this civil service division of labor before capitalism? You're talking about government after capitalism has been around for several centuries. The division of labor was created by capitalism.

Almost everything we have invented came from government research, like the internet, NASA, DARPA, etc.
I don't know the exact history of cellphones, but I bet it came from military needs and DARPA research.

Wrong.

When you have one company gaining a monopoly and making a dozen go bankrupt, that is not efficient at all.
Huge amounts of labor are wasted and lost.

That isn't what happens.

Socialism does not at all prevent advancement.
Again, the space race, evolution of planes from propeller to jets, etc., were all accomplished by the government.
It is only government that can be innovative, since they don't need to make a profit, and can try risks.
What product has socialism made that people did not want but would not go away?

What advancements have we had in space travel in the last 50 years? None. Government is responsible for a few things that didn't benefit the average person one iota.

Only government can be innovative?

Who invented the airplane?
Telephone?
radio?
Automobile?
power loom?
repeating rifle?
transistor?
Microwave oven?
air conditioning?
refrigeration?
Alternating current?
Light bulb?
aqualung?
Aspirin?
Assembly line?
Audiotape recording?
plastic?
Calculator?
Camera?
cash register?
cathode ray tube?
cell phone?
television?
concrete?
Dynamite?
cotton gin?
electric motor?
electron tubes?
electron microscope?
elevator?
escalator?
fiber optics?

 

[kaz]

To those who agree with Sanders, how much of one’s income should go to the Gov’t starting from the poor ( which pay nothing) to the very top

The Democrat position is always they should pay nothing and anyone who makes one dollar more should have it confiscated by the government. They aren't rich, but everyone who makes more than they do are

 

[bodecea]

Bernie is a socialist. He's a millionaire and you can bet your ass he doesn't share his money with the unwashed masses.

I doubt anyone gives a shit about what that socialist, elitist idiot has to say.

And yet.....here you are.