Belief in a God, the existence of a higher power, and the concept of an afterlife. Science or Religion?

[Dante]

If it had a beginning, could it be infinite? I'm thinking not. Of course that does not mean it won't be eternally expanding though. But still not quite the same thing.

But... given that you can never reach the edge because of the curvature of space, it is infinite in that sense, like a circle is infinite in that sense. But still... not quite the same thing.

Bottom line... no, I don't see how the universe can be infinite.

"Is space infinite?"

I guess I'll go with " "Infinite" refers to something with no limit, while "eternal" refers to something that lasts forever and has no beginning or end."

I need to go here first:

"Is space Infinite NASA?" -- "If space has no curvature (i.e, it is flat), there is exactly enough mass to cause the expansion to stop, but only after an infinite amount of time. Thus, the universe has no bounds and will also expand forever, but with the rate of expansion gradually approaching zero after an infinite amount of time."

What is the shape of the universe?

starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov

 

[Dante]

I was a strong follower of Joseph Campbell when he lived. He was a philosopher of note in the SF Bay area and a joy to watch his programs on tv.

I was gifted two of his tomes before the Bill Moyers tv specials. A dear friend was a graduate student in some theology program (he was Orthodox Greek), and although I was seriously rough-around-the-edges, true intellects and people knew I was more intellectual than most. SO gifts I got during my younger years were always texts books or tomes written by ...

Being autodidact:

"adjective. relating to or being a person who learns or has learned a subject without the benefit of a teacher or formal education; self-taught: I am self-motivated, self-sufficient, and autodidactic—all products of a childhood on an Alaskan homestead."

Most of my younger years, I was usually gifted books.

I have issues with most followers of JC. Why? Because I was never taught how to think of him, how to process his works...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So am I misappropriating it? O

Sure are. None of it was "done for a reason".

Unless you believe in a designer with intent.

As I said.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I guess I'll go with " "Infinite" refers to something with no limit, while "eternal" refers to something that lasts forever and has no beginning or end."

Then you are going to stumble.
Something can be both finite and boundless.

 

[Robert W]

Most of my younger years, I was usually gifted books.

I have issues with most followers of JC. Why? Because I was never taught how to think of him, how to process his works...

Joseph was a rare human being. He was so good he had a program on TV. And like any philosopher, he said things that could be criticized. Some of his teachings I took to heart. I wanted to touch his spirt in his mind is why.

It is very good to be self educated as you say you are. I do not quarrel at all with people like that. Not about things they know about.

For those who do not know about Joseph Campbell, let's listen to Bill Moyers talk about him.

 

[Dante]

Then you are going to stumble.
Something can be both finite and boundless.

Huh?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Huh?

Yep. It's true.

Something can be both finite and boundless.

 

[Dante]

Yep. It's true.

Something can be both finite and boundless.

...

 

[ding]

"Is space infinite?"

I guess I'll go with " "Infinite" refers to something with no limit, while "eternal" refers to something that lasts forever and has no beginning or end."

I need to go here first:

"Is space Infinite NASA?" -- "If space has no curvature (i.e, it is flat), there is exactly enough mass to cause the expansion to stop, but only after an infinite amount of time. Thus, the universe has no bounds and will also expand forever, but with the rate of expansion gradually approaching zero after an infinite amount of time."

What is the shape of the universe?

starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov

So that seems to be what I am saying when I say the universe is eternal into the future. It would be infinite if it was eternal into the past and eternal into the future.

I was never a fan of "bullets returning to the barrel" after being fired. So I never got on board with the "clever" concept of a big crunch. The thing I don't get is how they don't recognize (at least from what I have read) that the force for expansion was the massive storm of paired particle annihilations.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

...

Well, you're going to stumble if you define infinite as "no limits".

Following?

 

[ding]

Sure are. None of it was "done for a reason".

Unless you believe in a designer with intent.

As I said.

That's a philosophical discussion. Science can only study what was created. But if I were to have that philosophical discussion it wouldn't start with a designer, it would start with a creator. A creator that willed the material world into existence and imparted it with its "invisible" attributes.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's a philosophical discussion.

About the designer?

Correct.

About the definition of the word purpose?

It is not.

 

[ding]

About the definition of the word purpose? It is not.

I've already addressed that.

The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. We live in a logical universe where every effect had a cause. Things happen for reasons and serve a purpose. As much as you would like to believe everything is random and accidental, the evidence suggests otherwise. There is reason and purpose in the evolution of space and time. Nothing happened that did not have a reason, everything is connected and serves a purpose in the evolution of space and time. And we can use science to discover the order within nature so as to be able to make predictions of nature.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I've already addressed that.

Yes. And you made my point, with the definition you posted.

Uh.. thanks?

 

[scruffy]

We now have scientists claiming they've created matter from nothing in a groundbreaking experiment. If they have, their claims can be proven by successfully repeating any experiment.

Do you argue with that?

Well, I'd make a technical point:

Nothing isn't really "nothing". It's "something". The fields pervade the universe. As far as we know there's no such thing as "nothing".

The vacuum of empty space has energy, and it has a temperature. Particles spontaneously go in and out of existence all the time.

So I would say the title of the article is misleading. The mystery is in the existence of the fields, not the existence of its particular forms (like matter).

What would be super impressive is if scientists could create "nothing". Somehow create an isolated system with no fields and no energy, no "spacetime". That would seem to be a more meaningful act of creation than just changing one form of energy into another.

But, good question. Carry on.

 

[scruffy]

Huh?

Sure. The surface of a sphere is finite and boundless. It's only when you embed it into a higher dimension that it becomes "bounded". This is what (algebraic and geometric) topology is all about.

There is tons of science/math about what forms you can embed into what, and in how many dimensions. Surprisingly enough, higher dimensions don't always allow embedding. There are things you can embed in 3 dimensions but not 5, etc. You can use advanced algebra (sometimes) to figure out what will work.

One of the interesting things about our brains is we "synthesize" higher dimensions. Which basically lets us embed things into spaces that don't really exist. In math we take "copies" of the real number line, for example, to get to an x-y plane, the important thing being that they're made "orthogonal" or "independent". The mathematicians Cantor and Cartan began to work with fractional dimensions, and they basically concluded that dimensionality is approximately continuous, like, you can have "infinitesimal" dimensionality and "infinite" dimensionality. You can also have "negative" dimensionality and "imaginary" dimensionality. These concepts are formalized in a branch of mathematics called "category theory".

 

[scruffy]

Well, you're going to stumble if you define infinite as "no limits".

Following?

Here is an interesting website y'all might enjoy.

Main pages - Infinity Theory

www.infinity-theory.com

 

[Grumblenuts]

We now have scientists claiming they've created matter from nothing in a groundbreaking experiment. If they have, their claims can be proven by successfully repeating any experiment.

Do you argue with that?

Insanity:

I tell my dog to sit.. I expect her to sit.. She poops on the rug.. Every time.. Success!

 

[scruffy]

Insanity:
View attachment 1010945
I tell my dog to sit.. I expect her to sit.. She poops on the rug.. Every time.. Success!

Hm. Sounds like prayer.