Barack Obama threatens to withdraw support from wavering Democrats

[Oldandtired]

I think you conservatives do not fully understand the Democrats problem.

Vote for the Bill, they may lose re-election due to centrists and indies going against them(you conservatives are not in the Dems equation!!)

Vote against the Bill, they may lose re-election due to leftist voting against them.

They Dems are in a terrible pinch!!

Leftitst comprise 23% of the electorate.
That is not going to knock someone who votes no out of the picture.
Leftists are as insignificant as are conservatives as it pertains to the electorate.

 

[Oldandtired]

I think that when the bill becomes law, and people don't have to worry about pre-existing conditions any more, and people can't have their coverage cut off, and people can keep their kids on their own policies longer, and when people realize that the bill will NOT end up costing them an arm and a leg, they will quickly realize that they have been fearmongered by the republicans and they will not be negative towards democrats who voted for it.

When people are polled as to whether they approve of various pieces of the bill, they invariably say they DO... when those pieces begin to be enacted, they will see the benefit.

OK....so let me take it to the next level..

I agree....ask each individual item...and most agree with each item....add them together is where one must apply interlligence and logic.

So let me ask you a question......what will happen to the cost of insurance when pre-existing condition clauses are eliminated from contracts?

I will answer it.

The risk of "having to pay out more than you take in on the insured" will increase....and thus so will premiums.

So how do we overcome this problem? I will again answer it.....we must have a mandate that all must be insured from the day they are born...this way, the insurance comapny will recieve over a 30 year period about 150K in premiums from any given insuree...so if they need to pay out 125K for something that pops up, it is not a loss to the insurer.

But......do you truly believe that such a mandate would hold up in court when someone presents it?

SO then what happens. Now the mandate is lifted, and pre existing conditions is still outlawed....so now what? Insurers will certainly not be able to cut it as many will not pay a dime in premiums until they are diagnosed with something serious....so a 10K premium will translate to 125K in payouts...and a loss to the insurers.....

So you see....sure they all agree with each individual item....but if they knew what the outcome would be when all are put together, they would likelt disagree.

Stop tossing out assumption and start loooking at thje real dilemma. If pre-existing conditions should be eliminated, there is no easy answer......

Why then are the insurance companies raising premiums AND enforcing pre exisisting conditions policies? They raised premiums 40% and more after the first of the year when they thought healthcare reform was dead.

You are making excuses for what reason, I do not know because they will apply the same rules to you and your loved ones if you all become gravely ill.

This madness has to stop.

Why did you not answer my questions?
I am looking for an answere to the dilemma....I am in no way saying I am right as I do not have an answer.....that is why I asked that we debate the facts...and wanted to start off by ensuring you knew the facts...and recognized the dilemma...

SO please, if you want to convnince me, start off by answering my questions....then we can debate....

You DO want to debate the facts....no?

And by the way...that 40% figure? Another talking point. Yes...Empire did it in one state....and for what reason, I do not know......but my insurance company did not do a dam thing to my premium....


But please...answer my questions and lets have a fair debate with no talking points.

 

[Oldandtired]

Sarah...just realized you responded to my earlier post...not the one with the questions...

 

[Oldandtired]

I think that when the bill becomes law, and people don't have to worry about pre-existing conditions any more, and people can't have their coverage cut off, and people can keep their kids on their own policies longer, and when people realize that the bill will NOT end up costing them an arm and a leg, they will quickly realize that they have been fearmongered by the republicans and they will not be negative towards democrats who voted for it.

When people are polled as to whether they approve of various pieces of the bill, they invariably say they DO... when those pieces begin to be enacted, they will see the benefit.

OK....so let me take it to the next level..

I agree....ask each individual item...and most agree with each item....add them together is where one must apply interlligence and logic.

So let me ask you a question......what will happen to the cost of insurance when pre-existing condition clauses are eliminated from contracts?

I will answer it.

The risk of "having to pay out more than you take in on the insured" will increase....and thus so will premiums.

So how do we overcome this problem? I will again answer it.....we must have a mandate that all must be insured from the day they are born...this way, the insurance comapny will recieve over a 30 year period about 150K in premiums from any given insuree...so if they need to pay out 125K for something that pops up, it is not a loss to the insurer.

But......do you truly believe that such a mandate would hold up in court when someone presents it?

SO then what happens. Now the mandate is lifted, and pre existing conditions is still outlawed....so now what? Insurers will certainly not be able to cut it as many will not pay a dime in premiums until they are diagnosed with something serious....so a 10K premium will translate to 125K in payouts...and a loss to the insurers.....

So you see....sure they all agree with each individual item....but if they knew what the outcome would be when all are put together, they would likelt disagree.

Stop tossing out assumption and start loooking at thje real dilemma. If pre-existing conditions should be eliminated, there is no easy answer......

Why then are the insurance companies raising premiums AND enforcing pre exisisting conditions policies? They raised premiums 40% and more after the first of the year when they thought healthcare reform was dead.

You are making excuses for what reason, I do not know because they will apply the same rules to you and your loved ones if you all become gravely ill.

This madness has to stop.

The line in bold.....I am making excuses becuase the proposeals do not address the issues they will create.

This requires a lot more real thought and a lot less ideological thinking.

Intentions are good, but the results will be devastating.

 

[Sarah G]

I think you conservatives do not fully understand the Democrats problem.

Vote for the Bill, they may lose re-election due to centrists and indies going against them(you conservatives are not in the Dems equation!!)

Vote against the Bill, they may lose re-election due to leftist voting against them.

They Dems are in a terrible pinch!!

Yup, which is one of the reasons they're not even going to have a vote on it.

They are going to have votes in reconcilliation. You keep saying stuff like this ZB and it just isn't true. The House and Senate have already passed bills and have been trying to get Republicans engaged.

The healthcare system we now have is killing people. Not certain why Republicans don't care about this as they are really not immune. If they get sick, they will be going bankrupt just like a lot of people who have worked and paid thier bills all their lives do.

You must know this.

 

[Oldandtired]

I think you conservatives do not fully understand the Democrats problem.

Vote for the Bill, they may lose re-election due to centrists and indies going against them(you conservatives are not in the Dems equation!!)

Vote against the Bill, they may lose re-election due to leftist voting against them.

They Dems are in a terrible pinch!!

Yup, which is one of the reasons they're not even going to have a vote on it.

They are going to have votes in reconcilliation. You keep saying stuff like this ZB and it just isn't true. The House and Senate have already passed bills and have been trying to get Republicans engaged.

The healthcare system we now have is killing people. Not certain why Republicans don't care about this as they are really not immune. If they get sick, they will be going bankrupt just like a lot of people who have worked and paid thier bills all their lives do.

You must know this.

Like I said......I see the solutions and yes, they will do what needs to be done....ensure all are covered and ensure no one is denied due to pre-existing conditions.

What you seem to be avoiding is the topic of the ramifications of those solutions...they can be devastating....and I have no doubt the dems know this....but why are they not addressing them? Why are you not interested in addressing them?

 

[boedicca]

Having health insurance coverage when there are far fewer doctors to provide care is not going to help any one's health.

Just sayin'.

 

[Oldandtired]

Hey...I can stump and say that all Americans should have the benefit of owning their own home...ands pass legioslation to acheive this.

But the ramifications of such a good cause would be devastating.

So it is not such a great idea....although certainly a great cause....

Why do you not want to see this as the real issue of HCR?

We all appreicate the cause......we fear the ramifications.

 

[Yurt]

I think you conservatives do not fully understand the Democrats problem.

Vote for the Bill, they may lose re-election due to centrists and indies going against them(you conservatives are not in the Dems equation!!)

Vote against the Bill, they may lose re-election due to leftist voting against them.

They Dems are in a terrible pinch!!

Yup, which is one of the reasons they're not even going to have a vote on it.

They are going to have votes in reconcilliation. You keep saying stuff like this ZB and it just isn't true. The House and Senate have already passed bills and have been trying to get Republicans engaged.

The healthcare system we now have is killing people. Not certain why Republicans don't care about this as they are really not immune. If they get sick, they will be going bankrupt just like a lot of people who have worked and paid thier bills all their lives do.

You must know this.

and obama said no bill of significance should pass unless it is a 60 vote american bill with both repubs and dems...

 

[boedicca]

The Government mandating that people deserve things or services they haven't earned is always going to end badly.

 

[Oldandtired]

Having health insurance coverage when there are far fewer doctors to provide care is not going to help any one's health.

Just sayin'.

True.....but in an effort to have all insured, many are willing to sacrifice quality....as many opther countries opted to do.

I am more copncerned about the loing term ramifications of eliminating pre-exisitng condition clauses.

Ironically, such clauses are a result of the PUBLICS greed...not the insurers greed.....and now it is the insurers that need to suffer for it...and once they are OOB, it willbe the taxpayer...ALL OF US...that will need to suffer the ramifications of the publics greed.

 

[Oldandtired]

Yup, which is one of the reasons they're not even going to have a vote on it.

They are going to have votes in reconcilliation. You keep saying stuff like this ZB and it just isn't true. The House and Senate have already passed bills and have been trying to get Republicans engaged.

The healthcare system we now have is killing people. Not certain why Republicans don't care about this as they are really not immune. If they get sick, they will be going bankrupt just like a lot of people who have worked and paid thier bills all their lives do.

You must know this.

and obama said no bill of significance should pass unless it is a 60 vote american bill with both repubs and dems...

he also said that he was going to change the way things are done in Washington....but his integrity and hoinesty or lack thereof is not the topic.

 

[Oldandtired]

So it seems all on the left do not want to debate facts...only play that "rep vs dem; who is better" crap.

Not surpirsed.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I think you conservatives do not fully understand the Democrats problem.

Vote for the Bill, they may lose re-election due to centrists and indies going against them(you conservatives are not in the Dems equation!!)

Vote against the Bill, they may lose re-election due to leftist voting against them.

They Dems are in a terrible pinch!!

Yup, which is one of the reasons they're not even going to have a vote on it.

They are going to have votes in reconcilliation. You keep saying stuff like this ZB and it just isn't true. The House and Senate have already passed bills and have been trying to get Republicans engaged.

The healthcare system we now have is killing people. Not certain why Republicans don't care about this as they are really not immune. If they get sick, they will be going bankrupt just like a lot of people who have worked and paid thier bills all their lives do.

You must know this.

The House is pushing to not vote on the Senate bill via the Slaughter solution.

Why do you keep pushing talking points that are a lie? Rs have solutions and ideas for this but Obama and crew duly ignored the vast majority of them . . . then turned around and said the Rs didn't offer solutions.

This boondoggle they are pushing will not reduce costs, which is what this was suppose to be all about. Doesn't matter, they don't care about reducing cost, they don't care about you, they don't care about me. Endgame? Uncle taking over 1/6 of the economy.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Probably gonna send the Devil (Rahm Emanuel) out for some of his creepy late night shower assaults. These wavering Dems better stay away from the Congressional showers for awhile. Yikes!

 

[txlonghorn]

This is probably a good thing for these Democrats after reviewing the past couple of elections...

Barack Obama threatens to withdraw support from wavering Democrats - Telegraph

How would the Republicans respond if one of theirs voted for healthcare???

that congressman wouldn't get re-elected...regardless of the "support"

 

[Sarah G]

Yup, which is one of the reasons they're not even going to have a vote on it.

They are going to have votes in reconcilliation. You keep saying stuff like this ZB and it just isn't true. The House and Senate have already passed bills and have been trying to get Republicans engaged.

The healthcare system we now have is killing people. Not certain why Republicans don't care about this as they are really not immune. If they get sick, they will be going bankrupt just like a lot of people who have worked and paid thier bills all their lives do.

You must know this.

Like I said......I see the solutions and yes, they will do what needs to be done....ensure all are covered and ensure no one is denied due to pre-existing conditions.

What you seem to be avoiding is the topic of the ramifications of those solutions...they can be devastating....and I have no doubt the dems know this....but why are they not addressing them? Why are you not interested in addressing them?

You're coming from the premise that insurance companies have been charging a fair operating price and have raised premiums only because costs are high for them. That is not the case, healthcare costs too much but only for the consumer. Insurance companies have been living high off the hog.

They are gouging the public because the public has no other recourse than to do business with them.

The answer is to force them to do the right thing and to not assume that they will be fair. Don't ask me to join you in your sympathetic reaction to them. They need to rethink their fuzzy math.

 

[Avatar4321]

So he is threatening to make their campaigns better if they dont do what he wants? Wow, they must be sbaking in their boots.

 

[Oldandtired]

They are going to have votes in reconcilliation. You keep saying stuff like this ZB and it just isn't true. The House and Senate have already passed bills and have been trying to get Republicans engaged.

The healthcare system we now have is killing people. Not certain why Republicans don't care about this as they are really not immune. If they get sick, they will be going bankrupt just like a lot of people who have worked and paid thier bills all their lives do.

You must know this.

Like I said......I see the solutions and yes, they will do what needs to be done....ensure all are covered and ensure no one is denied due to pre-existing conditions.

What you seem to be avoiding is the topic of the ramifications of those solutions...they can be devastating....and I have no doubt the dems know this....but why are they not addressing them? Why are you not interested in addressing them?

You're coming from the premise that insurance companies have been charging a fair operating price and have raised premiums only because costs are high for them. That is not the case, healthcare costs too much but only for the consumer. Insurance companies have been living high off the hog.

They are gouging the public because the public has no other recourse than to do business with them.

The answer is to force them to do the right thing and to not assume that they will be fair. Don't ask me to join you in your sympathetic reaction to them. They need to rethink their fuzzy math.

So, in other words, all you have are talking points. You know for sure that insurance companies are way overcharging? Interesting, because if such were the case, Obama would have presented the actual numbers...as I am sure they exst.

The nmumber I am referring to is "profit per capita per year per insured"

Any company involved in a service that rewquires risk management has that number and is constantly monitoring that number....and yes, congress has access tot hese numbers threough the lobbyists...

So why hasn't Obama released that number if, in fact, it is damning? Afterall, it would shut up the opposition...yet all he does is talk about profits in DOLLARS...which in itself is disingenuous as it does not reflect the actual profit per monay laid out.

To profit 10 doillars when it cost you 9 dollars is not the same as a profit of 10 dollars when it cost you 5 dollars to earn it.

Why is the profit in dollars the only number he refers to?

I said no talking points sarah....giver me your own personla thoughts on this based on facts.......or maybe you cant?

 

[rightwinger]

So let me ask you a question......what will happen to the cost of insurance when pre-existing condition clauses are eliminated from contracts?

So what is your answer to people who have pre-existing conditions? What do you tell someone who beat cancer when they were 14 and now must try to find insurance as a young adult?

I dont think you get it...I am all for eliminating pre-exisitng condition clauses.

I just dont think it is possible without creating a government plan OR making a mandate for all people to buy insurance at birth......

ANd I can not see such a mandate making it past the very first appeal.

If you have large enough insurance pools, people with pre-existing conditions could get coverage. Yes, I think people should be covered from birth. I think you should be able to carry a policy for life if you choose. You have a policy with an insurer, not requiring your employer to sponser you. Right now, kids get kicked out when they are 24. Pre-existing condition or not.
Someone with a pre-existing condition is not cheating and should not be treated like a criminal or an outcast